PDA

View Full Version : The slick manouvre a killer move.



jugent
11-22-2005, 04:12 AM
There is a winning characteristic for some aircrafts, it is most succesfull.I call it the slick-manouvre.

I have only seen it in an exclusive family of a/c:s like La7,spitIX and the Yak 9U. Its like a wide barel-roll in a huge barell, like a mix between a climbing barel-roll and a looping.

It makes the aircraft that got this possibility, to stay in the manouvre for longer time than others can.

If you are in a dogfight and become in behind them they make this slick-manouvre and if u try to stay on their 6 aclock you stall before them, and by some strange physics seems to have good effects of the rudders, elevators and ailerons at that low speed.

A/C:s that curves better like the Zekes and KI:s than seems to loose their speed faster than them, and equals (Me 109G2 according to IL2 compare sheet) and not so agile turners like Me and FW seems to loose speed faster than them as well.

It doesnt seems to matter if you have more initial speed than they got, is it too high you cant follow them and black-outs. If your speed is only a slight above theirs your higher drag make u loose your E much faster than they do and you stall and falls unable to manouver through the air for some critical seconds.

The slickmanouvering plane slowly turns over and come down on you, every time they try this the will achieve more and more hight advantage.

Its like that their drag is reduced much more than other aircrafts thats why I call it the slick manouvre. The drag-calculations must make this effect only between some specific velocity, hight and maybee angle, otherwise it would be hard to land them.

It would be much interesting to get knowledge in how the flightmodel is modelled, what paramethers that is included and excluded.
If its a traditional and very complicated algoritm it is likly that it take to much of the computers resources, but it would be very simple to change the constants and variables according to new sources of informations.

nakamura_kenji
11-22-2005, 04:17 AM
if manover think mean it possible ki-61/100 as use against f6f lot online

have track to show?

jugent
11-22-2005, 04:29 AM
The manouvere is very popular online. I can send u one if you send my your address.

I dont think it is possible against the F6F because I think that the KI will bleed energy to fast. The F6F is so much heavier than the KI so I think that it like the P47 will imitate a V2 rocket and disapear up in the blue, but its worth trying.
The KI is so much more fragile than the Spit/La/Yak that u cant take to many hits before the roman-candle KI will torch

nakamura_kenji
11-22-2005, 04:42 AM
are you think of ki-84? i have no be on fire ki-61/100 since 4.02(maybe i luck). disscusion about manover so durability no matter.

i reread yes can do this in ki-61/100 maybe no same high speed like spitfire (ki-61/100 just no near fast) but i no stall out both those plane very forgive on edge have feel plane if.

BaldieJr
11-22-2005, 05:51 AM
Don't roll over with 'em. Level out and accelerate away from that party.

LEXX_Luthor
11-22-2005, 06:44 AM
jugent::
is it too high you cant follow them and black-outs.
Your first mistake is trying to follow.

The Slick Manuever is tricking the Bounce pilots to try to follow them. It seems to be working well, and there are many real WW2 accounts of high speed BnZ pilots suckered by slow planes.


If you are in a dogfight and become in behind them they make this slick-manouvre and if u try to stay on their 6 aclock you stall before them, and by some strange physics seems to have good effects of the rudders, elevators and ailerons at that low speed.
You can easily stall at high speed if you pull enough gees by getting suckered into trying to follow. Recall, at higher speeds you can pull more gees (a very general statement!!) and force a high speed stall....at least in some planes that maintain great elevator authority at high speeds.

vanjast
11-22-2005, 06:49 AM
A wide slow barrel role makes you easy pickings. If I were to far to follow I wouldn't follow, but if I was within effective gun range I'd give you a burst, then brake away so that I regain the advantage....

A lot of the time if you on anothers 6 and you don't shoot him down within 10 seconds or so, you'll are going to lose that conflict. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
11-22-2005, 06:55 AM
brake away

Don't say that, braking speed!! They may try that.

break away ... that should do the trick, break off with good speed and find another target or come back after putting some distance and altitude between you and the target. If you run high resolution above 1024x768 and have Text Icons turned off, then the invisible aircraft Dots always reverse the tactics from real life air warfare combat, and you always fly low and Bounce from below. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LameDuck.
11-22-2005, 09:48 AM
Sounds to me like a hi yo-yo???
Can you turn on the smoke and grab us a screenshot?
It's not wise to follow a spit into a hi yo-yo with a Wulf. Using all the muscles but the one that matters most, to borrow a phrase.

Jumoschwanz
11-22-2005, 10:19 AM
Baldie got it right. You just do not play their game. As usual someone getting their a ss handed to them is blaming something besides themselves.

Just like the "Great bf109 prop pitch exploit", where dummies would follow 109s up in a steep climb, stall out below them and then get shot up.
You are getting shot up because you are following them in the first place du mmy, not because of what anyone else is doing or some loophole in the game, it is YOU!

When you zoom down on someone to make a shot, if you are not good enough to make the shot, then conserve your energy and fly smoothly back up to your previous alt without any E scrubbing sharp control inputs. If your prey catches you and shoots your a ss down then it is your mistake, you did not attack with enough of an advantage, or you tried to follow thier evasive manuever and lost your E advantage.

This will never end though. As long as this sim is around, and some noob is getting shot down, he will blame everything but himself, in fact that is what half this forum has always been full of the last four years........

Jumoschwanz

Scen
11-22-2005, 10:32 AM
The answer to the problem is a Lag Displacment Roll or a Hi/Low Yo Yo... If you can't follow him which is likely given your description of the Blue planes then gain the advantage again by seperation. Either through vertical and or lateral seperation or both. Once you get back into position make your run again.

Usually find that if you're fighting a good pilot most of your shots will be high deflection or head on shots in the best cases. I know all of us at some point get caught with our pants down so that's not always the case.

Just a gereral comment about BFM is it's pretty dang fluid. There isn't just an end all "Move" if you will. I catch myself making mistakes all the time and of course Hind Sight is 20/20.

I think it's a constant form of refinement. Sometimes doing the unexpected is the best "move" you can make.

Scendore's 2 1/2 cents

p1ngu666
11-22-2005, 11:31 AM
the LA7 is in a entirely different class of aircraft, tbh dont engauge them, without a advantage.

the spit and 9u are only ok to good aircraft tbh

what plane(s) are u flying?