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skyhigh2011
03-29-2011, 11:24 PM
Hi guys, can I become a good fighter pilot? what moves do I need to do?

Treetop64
03-29-2011, 11:36 PM
The Electric Slide. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Seriously, the best way to learn anything in this sim is to go in and fly it. Period. If this is your first time flying the sim, don't worry about moves. Simply worry about how to fly competently without shooting or being shot at. There's plenty to worry about with just that.

There are no specific "moves", per se, that anyone can tell you that will make you good. You just have to get good, and through that you will learn to employ all the moves you need.

Initially, you're going to crash. A lot. You will also get shot down a lot. It's happened to all of us. Just be ready for it, and learn from it. Eventually, you'll get good enough that you'll be doing the shooting down much more often than getting shot down yourself.

I'm being very, very basic here. This isn't even scratching the surface. There is a whole lot to learn, and you have an awful long ways to go. From how to simply take off, fly, shoot straight, and land without crashing, to learning all the nuances and differences in how each plane you choose flies.

Good luck.

K_Freddie
03-29-2011, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi guys, can I become a good fighter pilot? what moves do I need to do?
Imaginationnnnnn...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://th02.deviantart.net/fs33/300W/i/2008/296/c/8/Spongebob_Imagination_Desktop_by_ConfusedLittleKit ty.png

M_Gunz
03-30-2011, 03:05 AM
Learn how to fly clean to make your best speed. It's not as simple as it might seem, the prop makes the air spin around the fuselage. Just because your nose is pointing somewhere that doesn't have to be where the plane is going.

Learn energy management. Flying clean helps. Blowing energy on hard flat turns, stupid flaps maneuvers and the like HURTS.

Practice flying only to keep your head from being distracted by combat before you can fly well. THEN start on combat. Hey, funny enough, that's how they did it IRL and still do! That's the fast way, the other way is half fast.

Learn how to judge how far away other planes are and what their energy states are.

Learn gunnery.

Study RL piloting here and there and apply to what you are doing in the sim as you recognize. Link to See How It Flies. (http://www.av8n.com/how/)

Don't reduce realism anywhere it will teach you bad flight habits.

Sign up for the online training at Joint-Ops (link) (http://www.joint-ops.com/php2/index.php).

Moves: wingovers, barrel rolls, immelmanns, split-s, spiral climb, all the Basic Combat Maneuvers and Advanced Combat Maneuvers can be found with some looking. But until you know flying clean and energy management you won't be good with them.

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-30-2011, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi guys, can I become a good fighter pilot? what moves do I need to do?

You might want to check out Joint Ops (http://joint-ops.com/), it's a free online virtual flight school.


Edit: Ooh, looks like they are doing Rise of Flight at JO now too, I might have to go through BFS a third time, lol.

saipan1972
03-30-2011, 10:57 AM
join a squad. its better not to fly alone.

Ba5tard5word
03-30-2011, 02:10 PM
Practice, practice, practice, that is really it. Just by flying around you'll pick up stuff on your own like how the aircraft handle in general as well as the idiosyncrasies of each individual plane. If you get puzzled about anything just ask here and people will help you out gladly and usually pretty quickly.

I would focus on just getting experience flying around, then try combat (start with attacking bombers, then slow fighters), then try take-offs, then landings. Landings are extremely tricky to get the hang of when you're just starting out.

gothkrieger
03-30-2011, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi guys, can I become a good fighter pilot? what moves do I need to do?

You might want to check out Joint Ops (http://joint-ops.com/), it's a free online virtual flight school.


Edit: Ooh, looks like they are doing Rise of Flight at JO now too, I might have to go through BFS a third time, lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for this post, I just signed up for IL2 course starting in April. Want to get a handle on this sim and this sounds good.

Davinci..
03-30-2011, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi guys, can I become a good fighter pilot? what moves do I need to do?

So you want to become a good fighter pilot..., there's 3 main things i can teach you/recommend.

1. Learn to fly, I cannot stress this enough! "learning to fly" is the most important thing anyone can/will ever tell you. I've always been amazed at the number of "jockeys" their are, that cant actually fly their aircraft worth a damn. You're going to want to be in complete command your aircraft during those critical moments, rather then tumbling around the sky. So practice flying! slow speeds, high speeds, tight turns coordinated turns, landings, take offs, anything.. Just fly until you can put your aircraft where you want it, when you want, and how you want!!

2. Next learn your aircraft. Every plane is different, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and performance abilities. Know yours in and out, what it can do, what it cant do, what it does well, and doesn't. You'd be surprised at the tremendous performance range different pilots are able to get out of their aircraft, because they've learned or tested what to do. You will literally see some pilots, fly faster, farther, for longer, then you will in the same aircraft/setup, because they've learned to manage their plane to its maximum. Once you've learned everything about your aircraft, learn about your enemies.

3. The point of everything above, is that when it comes time for the actual "fighting", you'll be ready to use your planes strengths, against your opponents weaknesses.., and be able to execute what you want to do, and when you want to do it. This is the mark of a good fighter pilot.
Any idiot can bank their aircraft, and pull hard on the stick, and most do. The most lethal pilots you will ever see on a server, aren't the ones turning the tightest, or have the most "moves".. They are the ones that are getting the absolute most out of their aircraft, and bring those attributes to bear on their opponents, with minimal risk to them selves.

A good pilot goes out and scores 4 kills,
A great pilot goes out, scores 4 kills, and brings his aircraft back home without even getting shot at.

You may be in a hurry, to get into the action and go "fur ball" it up, but the honest truth is, the pilots that actually score the most kills, are the most patient ones in the sky, and have actually thought about what they "want" to do, before they "try" and do it.

Hope this helps.
Davinci.

VW-IceFire
03-30-2011, 03:07 PM
Everyone has some great points here... I'll add one more.

Learn the history. There is a lot that can be learned from history from all kinds of angles but it can be applied to the art of fighter pilot combat as well. The history will give you insights on such match ups as the Spitfire versus the 109 and the Wildcat versus the Zero. Learn about what happened in the real war and get into the specifics. You'll be able to pick up on the tactics and ideas used by the real pilots and learn from many of their mistakes.

It's a worthwhile endeavor and it's self enriching too.

K_Freddie
03-30-2011, 03:14 PM
When you choose your fav aircraft, 'practise' flying it on the edge... high speeds and more importantly very consistent tight turns.

Any 'idiot' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif can fly fast, handling your aircraft 'on the edge' seperates the men from the boys.

Learn CEM (Complex Engine Managment).. it makes a big difference. You must be able to Think/Visualise in 3D = Situational Awareness (SA) === Imagination http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

K_Freddie
03-30-2011, 03:20 PM
To be good, is not to be shot down - Keep a good lookout.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

PhantomKira
03-30-2011, 04:12 PM
"Fancy flying never killed anyone. Good gunnery kills people."

All the fancy flying in the world won't do you a bit of good if you can't hit what you're shooting at. You'll end up defensive in every encounter. As a fighter pilot, that's not where you want to be.

In the simulated world, there are vast differences between how people can fly their aircraft. The reason is simply because not all are equipped with the correct controls to precisely control their aircraft. Some that are, are not equipped with quality equipment. If your input control of choice has sloppy springs or whatever, you won't be able to fly well, regardless of how well you're actually handling the controls. A keyboard and mouse won't cut it for flight sims. A joystick is essential if you want any hope of even having an idea what it's like to fly an aircraft, never mind surviving in a hostile virtual sky. "Force Feedback" is a very nice feature to have, as it attempts to depict the forces on the aircraft through forces on the stick. Rudder pedals are almost as essential, for precision flying. There are "twist sticks", where the joystick itself turns to give rudder inputs, but this is far from ideal. Finally, some sort of head tracking device like TrackIR or FreeTrack gives you a free hand when you don't have to look around using the fixed views of the numpad numberpad, or the mouse.

Check out the Nuggets Guide To Getting Off The Ground and Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3181081438) at the top of the General Discussion page. Also, ZeusCat's Straight From The Farm campaign to learn how to do safe landings from land and aircraft carrier. You can find it here (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=2147) from another great resource, Mission4Today.com (http://mission4today.com/).

The best way to learn combat tactics, once you have a handle on basic flying, and your aircraft in particular, is to get online and follow someone who knows what they're doing. Stick to them like glue and watch. Observe what they do, when they do it, and why. Take notes. If you're not sure why they did something, ask them in the debrief. For a great guide on these tactics and online flying in general, check the In Pursuit.pdf link below.

skyhigh2011
04-02-2011, 01:08 AM
hey, thanks you guys I want to join up the join op but i don't know how to I got an email from them now what? I don't know where to download IL21946SEPS Package.

DD_crash
04-02-2011, 03:39 AM
You get the seps package from the Joint-Ops download page. All the info you need is on their forum/website. Good luck its quite intensive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
04-02-2011, 03:52 PM
Here's a move for you, vertical turns. Do a half loop except on the way up, roll the plane so you come out on a new course. Do a half roll at the top and dive to regain speed. With a FW or P-47 this can be done insanely fast like while running a barrel roll, suddenly off 60 degrees in another direction. But don't try that when slow!

Learn to fly yoyo's. You can stay behind another even though you have higher airspeed if your path is longer. That's what yoyo's and _big_ barrel rolls do, they lengthen your path. And if every so often your path happens to point across the nose of the other might be other than coincidental.

Your path can be shorter than your target's like say you cross the circle the other is turning. You can be the slow one and still get the shot.

skyhigh2011
04-03-2011, 12:14 AM
can you guys just explain it in a simple term please? sorry it's a bit difficult for me to understand. I can fly in airline sims so take off and landing isn't a worry. Would complete aerobatics help?

skyhigh2011
04-03-2011, 12:17 AM
where can i play online nowadays?

skyhigh2011
04-03-2011, 12:32 AM
I fly jetliners take off and landing aren't big deal but i just wanted to get into combat as well trying everything and anything. I just want to learn dog fights to become like bud anderson or something hahahah would complete aerobatics do it?

M_Gunz
04-03-2011, 02:55 AM
You need to learn the Basic Combat Maneuvers and the Advanced Combat Maneuvers. They are all aerobatics. They used to be part of training materials in older sims with less time spent on FM/DM/graphics. Now you can take an online course.

If you can find a copy of the EAW CD there is an 8 meg html Flight Training School fully illustrated that goes into what you need to get started. If you want the full taco, a book to keep for occasional perusal and reflection, there is Fighter Combat by Robert Shaw published by the Naval Institute Press. About half of it applies to WWI & WWI prop planes and the rest is jet and/or missile-specific. It's written for modern combat pilots but he makes complete examinations of combat tactics and classifies them in terms of energy and angles that apply to all combat flying. That's if you want a serious book on the subject.

31 used hard cover copies starting at $12.75, new is $27.64. (http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Maneuvering-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301820477&sr=1-1) -- retail price is probably still $35.

M_Gunz
04-03-2011, 02:58 AM
You fly jetliners then you know energy management, right?

skyhigh2011
04-03-2011, 04:15 AM
yeah especially during take off and setting climb powers. I used to that but I want to explore aviation a bit playing civilian sims and combat sims. I want to get most of it. The jets just climb itself i don't know about the props on IL2 it just wouldn't gain speed during the climb before attacking your opponent. I just want to learn air combat through aerobatics and so on. I just joined up with the virtual combat school I'm getting started tomorrow. I'm a good airline pilot haha Can anyone help me to become a good fighter? Aerobatics? I thought you have to do aerobatics? how does all tight turns, half loop and yo yo's develop you into a good fighter? I don't get it.

M_Gunz
04-03-2011, 08:51 AM
Jets have constant thrust. Power = thrust x TAS. Jets gain power the faster they go. Up high they rock.

Props have constant power. Thrust = power / TAS. Props lose thrust the faster they go, they get the most at very low speed.

Props have spiral propwash and torque that jets aren't plagued with. Counter it with rudder/rudder-trim.

There's some practical differences between jets and props.

I doubt that any of the fast prop fighters could sustain a 30 degree climb. However a zoom climb where you're losing speed all the way up, any plane can spend some time in vertical. They can all go fast enough to exceed their own Va.

DKoor
04-03-2011, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi guys, can I become a good fighter pilot? what moves do I need to do? Learn to shoot, this is basics of basics in this game.
And truth to be told this is a masterful discipline that needs to be practiced regularly in order to achieve best results.

So you will hit hard from any position and in this game that means everything.
Sometimes all you get is one or two chances per fight so you gotta make it count.

Download my "Power of .50cal track" and see how to do a good bnz attack. That is a good opportunity seized 100%.

Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery, gunnery, gunnery...

Once you get online (if you still haven't) you will jawdrop on just how little many people need to kill you. They seize one bad, high deflection opportunity and saw your virtual head off... those monsters did it many times so that is their second nature, don't worry if you are crazy about the game as they are you will be just as good.
In couple of years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

PhantomKira
04-03-2011, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Any 'idiot' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif can fly fast, handling your aircraft 'on the edge' seperates the men from the boys.

+1 Example: The P-38 is a big, heavy aircraft that should not be able to win a turn fight with the A6M Zero. (One should be being an 'idiot' when flying the P-38, using it's weight and power to perform fast flying energy based attacks, but that's another post...) I have, however, routinely won turn fights against Zeros in my P-38. How? I fly on the edge. Most importantly I know my airplane. I know what it can do, what it can't do, when, where, and why.

Most of the time.

The issue is that when I make a mistake, while doing something I shouldn't be doing (turn fighting in the P-38), I pay for it; quickly and decisively. Weather that be getting shot down, or putting in just a shade too much rudder and getting into a spin that I can't recover from given my altitude, the results are swift and catastrophic. There is very little room for error when out on the edge, and even less when doing things you technically shouldn't be doing.

I'll give a second example of successful use of low speed tactics in an airplane designed for high speed:

I was online, had lost my wingman, and was cruising home alone when I discovered I was being followed. Hoping to outrun him, and having altitude to burn, I pushed the throttles forward, and dove in a long shallowish dive for the deck to get extra speed. He was still gaining, very slowly, and I had to do something before he simply cruised up and shot me down. So I did the last thing you when trying to get away from someone, I looped up, and turned back toward him, just slightly higher than he was. We passed, head to head, and, since I now had intentionally closed the distance, I ended up doing the only thing I could think of to keep him off my tail, a scissors, which is a low speed series of turns in which each aircraft is trying to get on the others tail. The victory usually goes to the aircraft that can turn the tightest. And I made another mistake. In the pass, I discovered that he was a Focke-Wulf 190D, late model. I knew right away that I was in trouble, since not only can a P-38 not outrun a late model 190, the 190 is generally is better at turning. My response was to attempt to get head to head with him again. This took a few turns, during which our speeds decreased, and he used his better turning ability to get a few shots in, hitting me a few times, but not seriously. I managed, by using everything I knew about what my aircraft was capable of, to get back to a head to head situation, at which time we passed each other going opposite directions. Instead of continuing my turn, I straightened out and ran. He was at low speed, and continued to go around the turn, expecting me to be there, and then I wasn't. He had to do a complete 360 degree turn, at which point he was slow, I was faster and my speed increasing, at a considerable distance, and moving away, using the very good climb capability of the P-38 to increase that distance vertically. He chose to break off and go home, and I was very, very lucky to still have an airplane to fly.

I never should have decided to attempt the scissors maneuver. It was a mistake I could have, and should have lost my airplane for. This example is not one of what to do right, but how handling your airplane on the edge can help you pull your chestnuts out of the fire when you make a mistake.

gothkrieger
04-03-2011, 03:49 PM
Love reading descriptions like this!

RegRag1977
04-03-2011, 05:24 PM
Hi,

Learn how to set your joystick curves properly (dead zone and filtering try everything and keep what suits you best). Find the best curves for all axis and for all your favorite aircraft. Find the best key configuration (hotas recommended). Learn how to trim your aircraft and how to use elevator (and rudder) trim to have a precise and steady aim.

THIS IS THE FIRST STEP

Remember: all the training you will do without doing all this above will prove useless and discouraging in the end!

Then, you can learn the basic moves: SHOOTING! turns, yo-yo, wingover, barrel roll... Then try them all in combat.

Also remember: as in real life <span class="ev_code_RED">one of the most dangerous thing is to believe you know a thing, when you actually don't, is to believe you master something when you actually don't</span>. Failing and losing is the sign a pilot doesn't know what he's talking about.

This "futile" game is far more difficult than it seems, the simple and exotic words seasoned pilots are using here are nothing without the huge amount of experience and skill of the same pilots speaking. And you will often wonder what they are really talking about when they use words you think you understand when you begin.
You will find all the maneuver descriptions quite simple BUT YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING if you are not able to perform them successfully in combat. There is nothing more complex than doing the good move at the right moment, it may look simple on the paper, even when looking at an ace flying, but it is really something that requires a lot of experience. Remember it is not because you understood the principles of a maneuver, and that you are able to talk about it in a chat, that you know something about it. Thing will be good the day you will find youself saying "ah, ok, then this is the maneuver that was described!". Training training and training again, and again, will give you the experience.

There's so many things to say.... the last thing i will tell you is: don't panic just because your target is not sitting straight in front of you showing his six. Always keep it in sight, try to estimate his energy status (try to guess what he is/isn't able to do), know when to engage, know how to disengage aka run-away/escape.

BTW welcome on board and Good luck!

PhantomKira
04-03-2011, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by RegRag1977:
You will find all the maneuver descriptions quite simple... if you are not able to perform them successfully in combat. There is nothing more complex than doing the good move at the right moment, it may look simple on the paper, even when looking at an ace flying, but it is really something that requires a lot of experience. Remember it is not because you understood the principles of a maneuver, and that you are able to talk about it in a chat, that you know something about it. Thing will be good the day you will find youself saying "ah, ok, then this is the maneuver that was described!". Training training and training again, and again, will give you the experience.

And this is the essence of the problem I found myself in in the above encounter. I knew the airplane on paper, but attempted a turn based maneuver in an energy airplane. As soon as that enemy speck showed up all that info went right out the window. Very bad mistake. I just happened to get away with it, this time.

Combat flying is like any other intense activity in that you have to stay calm and think, not get worked up and just go barreling in. Gotta be thinking 5 or 10 steps ahead. I was at step 1. I never did get to step 2. All I knew was that if I could somehow haul this thing around tight enough, I could increase the distance... and find myself in the initial situation. Again. With absolutely zero to gain for all that maneuvering. So, yeah, I got lucky, simply because he called it a day. The whole time, it was his fight, he just let me go. Having left myself no option, I had to fly hard in order to survive.

Having practiced where the limits of the airplane were, instead of what maneuver to use when, I had an idea as to just how far I could go before the airplane had enough. But if I'd studied maneuvers rather than the limits of the airplane, I may have been able to avoid the situation altogether.

skyhigh2011
04-03-2011, 08:15 PM
I've flown around and now I'm feeling like i'm picking up some good moves. But I still don't understand what you guys are trying to explain to me but ah well. Where can I download Power of .50cal track?

skyhigh2011
04-03-2011, 11:47 PM
"Here's a move for you, vertical turns. Do a half loop except on the way up, roll the plane so you come out on a new course. Do a half roll at the top and dive to regain speed. With a FW or P-47 this can be done insanely fast like while running a barrel roll, suddenly off 60 degrees in another direction. But don't try that when slow!

Learn to fly yoyo's. You can stay behind another even though you have higher airspeed if your path is longer. That's what yoyo's and _big_ barrel rolls do, they lengthen your path. And if every so often your path happens to point across the nose of the other might be other than coincidental.

Your path can be shorter than your target's like say you cross the circle the other is turning. You can be the slow one and still get the shot."

Can you explain in simple words please? I don't get it. I haven't got a joystick so I'm on keyboard. How do I do vertical turns, Half loop, half roll, gain speed and all that?? and How do I do yo yo's?

RegRag1977
04-04-2011, 04:20 AM
Hey, just a friendly advice: get yourself a joystick (HOTAS)as soon as possible! you won't go far with the keyboard.

Seriously http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Don't try to understand all these maneuvers right now, keep your questions for later. Now get yourself a stick, set it properly then learn how to take off and land, strafe ground target or large drones. Get yourself used to the effects (torque gyroscopic stall etc) of a powerful prop fighter.

It's a good way to start.

thefruitbat
04-04-2011, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:

I was online, had lost my wingman, and was cruising home alone when I discovered I was being followed. Hoping to outrun him, and having altitude to burn, I pushed the throttles forward, and dove in a long shallowish dive for the deck to get extra speed. He was still gaining, very slowly, and I had to do something before he simply cruised up and shot me down. So I did the last thing you when trying to get away from someone, I looped up, and turned back toward him, just slightly higher than he was. We passed, head to head, and, since I now had intentionally closed the distance, I ended up doing the only thing I could think of to keep him off my tail, a scissors, which is a low speed series of turns in which each aircraft is trying to get on the others tail. The victory usually goes to the aircraft that can turn the tightest. And I made another mistake. In the pass, I discovered that he was a Focke-Wulf 190D, late model. I knew right away that I was in trouble, since not only can a P-38 not outrun a late model 190, the 190 is generally is better at turning. My response was to attempt to get head to head with him again. This took a few turns, during which our speeds decreased, and he used his better turning ability to get a few shots in, hitting me a few times, but not seriously. I managed, by using everything I knew about what my aircraft was capable of, to get back to a head to head situation, at which time we passed each other going opposite directions. Instead of continuing my turn, I straightened out and ran. He was at low speed, and continued to go around the turn, expecting me to be there, and then I wasn't. He had to do a complete 360 degree turn, at which point he was slow, I was faster and my speed increasing, at a considerable distance, and moving away, using the very good climb capability of the P-38 to increase that distance vertically. He chose to break off and go home, and I was very, very lucky to still have an airplane to fly.

I never should have decided to attempt the scissors maneuver. It was a mistake I could have, and should have lost my airplane for. This example is not one of what to do right, but how handling your airplane on the edge can help you pull your chestnuts out of the fire when you make a mistake.

Ha that was me in the FW http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

from my point of view, it took me longer to chase you down than i was really prepared for, as i was fairly low on fuel and also had not much ammo left, and after the encounter decided that you weren't going to be a quick easy kill (and thats the key part really), so I went home. If i'd of had more fuel and less points in the bag, would of probably pursued.

it was good defensive flying on your part, on another day though, those 20mm's would of hurt more (tbh i didn't know i'd actually hit you, as i'd shot blind under the nose where i guessed you would be) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

M_Gunz
04-04-2011, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
"Here's a move for you, vertical turns. Do a half loop except on the way up, roll the plane so you come out on a new course. Do a half roll at the top and dive to regain speed. With a FW or P-47 this can be done insanely fast like while running a barrel roll, suddenly off 60 degrees in another direction. But don't try that when slow!

Learn to fly yoyo's. You can stay behind another even though you have higher airspeed if your path is longer. That's what yoyo's and _big_ barrel rolls do, they lengthen your path. And if every so often your path happens to point across the nose of the other might be other than coincidental.

Your path can be shorter than your target's like say you cross the circle the other is turning. You can be the slow one and still get the shot."

Can you explain in simple words please? I don't get it. I haven't got a joystick so I'm on keyboard. How do I do vertical turns, Half loop, half roll, gain speed and all that?? and How do I do yo yo's?

Yoyo is a path that goes up and down mostly, crossing the path of the target behind him time after time. You fly along the path and keep rolling your plane so you don't lose sight of the target. You get a chance to fire with every pass.

Your yoyo flight path is longer than the more straight path of the target, you have to be flying faster than him just to keep up. That means your plane has more energy that you can use to maneuver with. And if he's trying shake you by being slow, he will only limit the G's he can use or the height he may zoom, he doesn't limit what your speed allows. The only way to blow it is by slowing down and playing his game, otherwise you can dance all over him.

You really need a stick and pedals or a twisty-stick that gives your rudder by twisting. Without rudder control you can't keep the flight coordinated enough to pull any near-stall-edge maneuvers. You are a pilot then I expect you to know what near-stall-edge means, you are or have been an airplane pilot for real?

Even this stick would work, at all, but SHOP AROUND. (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ST290-PRO&cat=GAM)

A half-loop starts out like flying a loop but ends halfway through on the top. A loop being where you fly in a vertical circle to come out going the same direction that you went in. Maybe you don't get that and maybe if I knew another language better it would help, or do you have no problem about the loop and half-loop? I don't know, maybe 'vertical circle' is not doing it for you? You see, I don't know which parts give you trouble, it makes explanations difficult.

You are flying along -fast- and you pull the nose up smoothly until your plane is going straight up, that is 1/4 loop, you keep on pulling back until you are upside down pointing level. That is 1/2 loop. If you keep pulling then your plane will nose down and you can finish the loop.
if you get to the 1/4 loop stage and you roll your plane 90 degrees then your plane will come out pointing 90 degrees away from where it would have giving you a 90 degree change in direction very quickly.

A 180 degree turn has the start and end away from each other. A flat turn has both ends at the same height

There are maneuvers used to change direction and/or altitude/speed that have different advantages and disadvantages, each compared to each, each best fitting certain tactical cricumstances in the changing combat environment. When you plan your next few seconds tactics to put you in or towards a shooting solution it is the maneuvers you know that you plan with, even if the only things you know are 'fly straight', 'climb', 'dive' and 'flat turn'. Knowing a half-loop you can plan to go from flying straight and fast in one direction to flying slower and higher (and upside down so you roll 180 to be upright) facing the opposite way and ready for the next maneuver, perhaps a shallow dive to regain speed?

If you're not going fast enough to pull a half-loop and you don't want a flat-turn slowing your down then you need the wing-over trick. That's where you climb to lose speed, make the turn so you top out at best turn speed (takes practice) and when the turn is done you keep diving to get the rest of your speed back. The point of the exercise is to store speed that would be lost in a flat turn, make the turn at more efficient speed and regain the stored speed while turning 180.

Maneuvers let you change your path and speed. The more ways you can do that, more different situations you can fit and the less predictable you can be.

Everything comes down to heights, speeds, distances and angles. In general you can trade one for another. When you think of a maneuver in those terms, you can plan combat tactics reasonably. If you can't plan tactics then that's something to work on, a good setup takes more than a direct approach.

You could probably learn a whole lot just doing dives and climbs, especially zoom climbs (losing speed all the way up) and getting a feel for the trades of speed and height and how the thrust-drag-speed thing (thrust is highest where drag is lowest and vice-versa) affects it. It's different from plane to plane too, the top speed for each plane can tell you a lot about how that will be. Just get a feel for your wings but do it with a joystick, the keyboard has no feel and the IL-2 stick interface is based on stick forces.

PhantomKira
04-04-2011, 11:00 AM
Well good shootn' Tex, er FruitBat! Heh. I figured it was something like that, looking at your score on the debrief. I think we were the last two in the air at the time, weren't we? That would explain your low fuel.

Sillius_Sodus
04-04-2011, 12:17 PM
Welcome to the forum skyhigh2011,

A lot of the members here will recommend you fly this sim with all the realism switches on ("full switch"), from the get-go in order to avoid acquiring bad habits.

This is good advice and is probably the best way to do it, but it can be very frustrating at first.

In my case, I didn't follow this advice. Not as realistic, but still a lot of fun. Because of the limitations of 'flying' on a computer, I still have a few switches set to 'off', mostly map stuff and turbulence.

Anyway, to make a long story even more boring, I won't recommend any maneuvers as such. This is how I started out:

Turn off complex engine management, overheating, wind and turbulence, no external views and cockpit always on. Enable invincibility but not unlimited ammo as this feature will eliminate bullet drop, and you need to deal with that right away.

Go to the QMB and set up a scenario where you go up against 1 enemy aircraft. If your enemy is a fighter, if get on its tail, don't shoot it right away, just try to stay behind it for as long as possible. When you are ready to fire, slow the sim to 1/2 or even 1/4 speed and watch where your rounds go. This sounds easy but is less so than you think, especially in the beginning. Bomber gunners in IL2 are annoyingly accurate, so enabling invincibility will allow you to attack them for a bit longer although you should still try to avoid being hit (you'll hear the hits on your aircraft).

You'll find that the target will often disappear under your nose so select "cockpit off", otherwise known as "Wonder Woman View", and this way you will see where your shots go and hopefully come to grips with deflection shooting s bit quicker.

Start flying some of the stock campaigns using these settings to get a feel for the ebb and flow of combat. When you start getting regular kills, start dialling up the realism settings until you are flying pretty much full switch.

Online flying is a completely different animal from the offline experience so don't worry if you really suck online at first. Keep at it and you'll get better. Your first online "kill" will be a real rush!

Whichever way you do it, remember, its just a game.

Have fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Erkki_M
04-05-2011, 03:22 AM
If you were still wondering how to fly online, most use Jiri Fojtasek's HyperLobby, http://hyperfighter.sk

There are people to ask questions and help you online 24/7 too.

skyhigh2011
04-07-2011, 01:04 AM
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the help. I tried flying around with several tight turns now it's working out too well ! hahahaha. I couldn't wait for the JO virtual combat flying to get me up. But it's working out now thanks. Keep posing though it's really useful !

skyhigh2011
04-07-2011, 01:07 AM
How can I play online? I haven't got ace expansion pack and pacific, 1946 and all that patches?? and where do I fly online??

skyhigh2011
04-07-2011, 08:23 AM
where can I get the patches from? I think I'm gonna have to get a new computer for 1946, ace expansion pack then?? I kept steering the plane and got really good at it ! Mine's a p4 1000mb RAM, and a joystick ! what's the best computer??
I shot a plane down and thought that was wicked !

Erkki_M
04-07-2011, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
where can I get the patches from? I think I'm gonna have to get a new computer for 1946, ace expansion pack then?? I kept steering the plane and got really good at it ! Mine's a p4 1000mb RAM, and a joystick ! what's the best computer??
I shot a plane down and thought that was wicked !

See above, online play still (probably the best) with HyperLobby, http://hyperfighter.sk http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If you have the 1946, you will need for the very minimum 2 updates, 4.08 and 4.09. See: http://hyperfighter.sk/modules...ile=viewtopic&t=7842 (http://hyperfighter.sk/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7842)

EDIT: you dont need the Ace Expansion. 1946 already includes everything.

skyhigh2011
04-07-2011, 07:09 PM
I have Hyperlobby ! How come noone is online??

skyhigh2011
04-07-2011, 07:56 PM
I can't download POWER of .50cal track!? I subscribed it but still can't download!!

M_Gunz
04-08-2011, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
I have Hyperlobby ! How come noone is online??

What version are you playing? 1946 4.?

Thoughts to keep about WWII prop fighters:

While they differ as to what speeds they do things best, turning is usually best done at 1/2 full level speed or less.
The best way to slow down for a turn is to climb until you are in your best turn speed range then dive back down.
A hard turn will slow you the most. A horizontal (flat) turn is less efficient than a turn made on a tilt.

Your engine makes power, the power makes thrust, the faster you go in true air speed the less thrust you have. You don't have enough thrust to lift anywhere near straight up without losing speed. It is your speed that lets you pull hard moves, nothing else. You can store speed into height and you can trade height for speed.

You can use gravity to aid in maneuver, at the top of a loop you have 1 G extra pulling your down and tightening your loop. That is behind why turn on a tilt is better than flat turn.

Maneuver is change of course and/or speed:

Your strongest maneuvers are all accomplished through the lift of your wings and the speed of your plane (which you usually lose some in the process) you can maneuver 6 G's before pilot blacks out. You can change the direction that your wings lift by elevator (pitch nose up or down, not to be confused with prop pitch) or aileron (bank/roll). A high roll rate makes for a very maneuverable plane including many not generally thought good at maneuver. When you go for using lift though, it is always the elevator that makes it happen. If this is confusing then wait until you have more time 'flying'.

It is better/cleaner to only move the stick on one axis at a time. Either roll or pitch, doing both at once results in extra drag and you get less of both plus being slower than you could have been.

In general you don't want to pull any hard maneuver for more than a short time, couple seconds, and the rest of the time 2 G's or less. If the other guy turns too hard to follow, rise above and maybe hit him on the way down. If he bleeds his speed in hard turns and you don't then that is to your advantage as long as you don't blow it.

Salute! Hope you are keeping The Ball near center to avoid spins and missed shots.

skyhigh2011
04-08-2011, 08:29 AM
Hi, I'm just straight out of the package V.4 ! that's it ! I want to get online !

thefruitbat
04-08-2011, 10:18 AM
make sure your in the 'IL-2 Sturmovik 1946' room, you'll need to be running version 4.10.1 for most of the servers at the moment, just checked, 258 people online in hyperlobby, quite time of day at the moment though.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/ScreenHunter_01Apr081715.jpg

M_Gunz
04-08-2011, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi, I'm just straight out of the package V.4 ! that's it ! I want to get online !

Okay but your splash screen should tell you it's 4.7. Patches since are all free http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif but you need to be patched to the same level as others you want to play online with. So you need 4.08m, 4.09, 4.10 and 4.10.1, the last one is very small, just fixes.

By 4.10.1 the online servers can use 'mission triggers' for more action. 4.10.1 has airframe stress damage and engine reliability realism toggles. You don't want to run full power all the time with engine reliability on, check server settings before joining.

thefruitbat
04-08-2011, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:

By 4.10.1 the online servers can use 'mission triggers' for more action.

nope, been pushed back, hopefully with 4.11.

skyhigh2011
04-08-2011, 11:19 PM
Cool where do I get the patches from??

M_Gunz
04-09-2011, 12:57 AM
Bookmark this link, it's the Nugget's Guide to IL-2 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645)

This is Mission 4 Today, one site where patches can be found. (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Home)

Be sure to get 4.08m -- with the m for merged at the end.

skyhigh2011
04-09-2011, 01:31 AM
Ok there's tons of downloads what ones to download?? I want to fight online ! the 4.11 one??

FoolTrottel
04-09-2011, 03:27 AM
Take a note which exact version you are on now.
Probably, it's v4.07m. If so, then you will be needing:
- 4.08 Official Patch
- 4.09 Official Patch
- 4.09 Skins Pack Official Release (You could skip this one, but do install it)
- IL-2 1946 Patch 4.10 International Version
- Fix Patch 4.101 International Version

Download them all, install them all one by one, in the correct order.

Good Luck!

M_Gunz
04-09-2011, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
Hi, I'm just straight out of the package V.4 ! that's it ! I want to get online !

Okay but your splash screen should tell you it's 4.7. Patches since are all free http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif but you need to be patched to the same level as others you want to play online with. So you need 4.08m, 4.09, 4.10 and 4.10.1, the last one is very small, just fixes.

By 4.10.1 the online servers can use 'mission triggers' for more action. 4.10.1 has airframe stress damage and engine reliability realism toggles. You don't want to run full power all the time with engine reliability on, check server settings before joining. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I already posted. And make sure that the 4.08 patch is 4.08m.

So you need 4.08m, 4.09, 4.10 and 4.10.1, the last one is very small, just fixes.

Perhaps slow down a bit if you keep missing little details like that since that will lead to a lot of time spent re-doing.

PS oh yeah I forgot the 4.09 skins. See what happens?

thefruitbat
04-09-2011, 07:52 AM
just to add to the above, after installing each patch, start the game and check its all ok, before moving on to the next patch.

check the version number, which is displayed in the bottom left corner of the loading splash screen.

skyhigh2011
04-09-2011, 11:30 PM
Hi guys, I really couldn't find the page to download I had a look and it's not there can you search for me please? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

thefruitbat
04-10-2011, 02:57 AM
you will need to register at M4T, heres the page.

http://www.mission4today.com/i...name=Downloads&c=564 (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&c=564)

M_Gunz
04-10-2011, 03:13 AM
Are you really trying or just poor at digging or just want everything handed to you in small pieces?

Here's the downloads page (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=downloads)

And here's the page you get if you type PATCH into the search box on the downloads page. (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=search)

You need 4.08m official patch that they label as 4.08 Official Patch and show the real file name with 4.08m (you have to look).

You need 4.09 official patch and the 4.09 skins official patch. The 4.09 Guide is good if you want to know the features.

Same for 4.10 and 4.101.

They are all there (I checked) on 4 pages of search results but frankly you need some practice at finding things and reading.

When you wrote that you did takeoffs and landings in commercial jets I took that as you being a commercial pilot with all the knowledge that entails. Are you a pilot or someone the pilots let to push buttons?

thefruitbat
04-10-2011, 03:57 AM
or he could just use the link i gave which takes him right to the patch page http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

skyhigh2011
04-10-2011, 06:48 AM
ok guys, i'm registered what ones do I need for just sturmovik?? cause i don't have ace expansion pack and 1946?? sorry for bothering !!

M_Gunz
04-10-2011, 06:57 AM
You only need IL-2:1946 and the patches 4.08m, etc, as above.

Are you new to internet? That would explain much. Searching for things is a primary net skill. That does not mean that everyone should be great at it but it makes life a lot easier to be able! Nobody is born knowing, hey?

Crash_Moses
04-10-2011, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
ok guys, i'm registered what ones do I need for just sturmovik?? cause i don't have ace expansion pack and 1946?? sorry for bothering !!

Skyhigh...you need to purchase IL2 1946. (You have the original Sturmovik) It should work okay on your system. Post back here when you have it.

M_Gunz
04-10-2011, 01:08 PM
IL-2:1946 is also inexpensive, release was 2007.

I thought he already has it, V.4. PF is 3.

Crash_Moses
04-10-2011, 01:44 PM
He's repeatedly stated that he doesn't have FB, PF, or 1946 nor has he been able to find the patches or get on hyperlobby despite detailed instructions from various posters.

As we're unsure of his software version, age, or lucidity after three pages of posts I thought it best to avoid confusion and point out the obvious. Get 1946.

DKoor
04-10-2011, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by skyhigh2011:
I can't download POWER of .50cal track!? I subscribed it but still can't download!!

Here it is;
http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/0d...8839/?action=forceDL (http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/0de7e3f5-b790-44ad-bb5a-e9b6dc648839/?action=forceDL)

FileFactory has somewhat complicated way of downloading things for those that are not paying for the service so I switched back to ESnips, seems ok for now.
BTW if someone knows better site for storing files (so they can be accessed later and not deleted by the site in case of inactivity) please let me know.

M_Gunz
04-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Yah Crash, there may also be a language problem. I've hoped he would open up but he clams up instead. It's hard to throw the ball to a shadow.

skyhigh2011
04-10-2011, 09:20 PM
so I need 1946 to get online?? no M_gunz I'm not new to the internet just wonder where the files are that's all. They used to be on Ubi.com a while back but I don't know where they are nowadays ! now I got il2_1946_408m.zip and 409m.zip? Install it?? Will it crash??

M_Gunz
04-10-2011, 10:20 PM
Thank you for coming back and keeping trying. We want you to share our hobby and will try to make that happen.

Okay you have Patch 4.08m and 4.09, is a start. But those only go onto IL-2:1946. While waiting to get that you also need the 4.09 Skins, 4.10 and 4.101 also at Mission4Today in those 4 pages of that last link I posted or elsewhere if you want and can find, there are other places mirroring the patches.

If you are having troubles with too many things at once then say so, we can go one step at a time. Your next step is get IL-2:1946.

Here it is at Amazon from different dealers. Low price NEW is $7.95! (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000MWF5UQ/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&qid=1302494986&sr=1-3-catcorr&condition=new)

Here is the UBI download for $9.99 -- you get no disks with this. (http://shop.ubi.com/store/ubina/en_US/pd/ThemeID.8605600/productID.180138200/IL-2_Sturmovik%3A_1946.html)

skyhigh2011
04-10-2011, 11:15 PM
Ok, I have all the patches now but it keeps refering to 1946 should I get it?? or if i installed the patches will it crash?? or do I just install them who cares?? I'll just get 1946 cause i've already for PF I hope to get online soon sorry for not being able to find stuff !!

skyhigh2011
04-11-2011, 12:10 AM
I think I'll get 1946 I installed all the patches and sturmovik won't start ! I got all the patches though.

M_Gunz
04-11-2011, 06:40 AM
Again, those patches are ONLY for IL-2:1946.

You want to play online, most people are using 1946 patched to 4.101. That is what you need.

Crash_Moses
04-11-2011, 10:31 AM
Not sure if you're in the States or not and this certainly isn't the cheapest price I've seen it but it's still not bad for $13. You can download it from Ubi for $5.

IL-2 1946 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/UBI-Soft-68361-IL-2-Sturmovik/dp/B000N4JENW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302539186&sr=8-1)

skyhigh2011
04-13-2011, 10:32 PM
Ok then, I'll get 1946 within a few weeks see how that goes.

skyhigh2011
05-04-2011, 12:30 AM
I stuffed up the manuevers what shall i do??

M_Gunz
05-04-2011, 02:20 AM
Practice flying, just like the real pilots. Use Quick Missions or Full Missions with just your plane, no enemies or AA and learn how it flies, what is clean and what is not while paying attention to speed and the instruments. Just fly it for a while until you can build and maintain good speed and not stall or spin. Then start practicing combat maneuvers. Then work on gunnery. And then start playing at combat when you have the flying part well down.

In countries where they were not pressed hard, new pilots would have 150+ hours learning in their fighters.

Here is a link to Basic Fighter Maneuvers. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#Combat_spread)

Or you could get yourself online and sign up for the Joint-Ops online training listed in the Nuggets Guide. There's a link to that and there's -everything written for you so far- still posted in this thread. You should not be so lost, it is all still here.