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Foehammer-1
09-17-2008, 10:07 AM
Hey all! I have the regular Il-2, version 1.2. I'm around the end of the Prohorovka battles in the bomber campaign. Still can't figure out one thing though. How in heavens am I supposed to hit tanks with bombs?

Dive bombing seems to work, but Il-2's are really bad at that, as they were historically. Historically, they'd open fire from about 500 meters with cannons, shoot off a few RS's and then release bombs.

Now, guns and cannons I can manage. However, things like FAB 50 need to be direct hits to kill a tank, and FAB-100 need to be direct hits on heavier tanks, and very close hits on lighter. I know that historically pilots had a very hard time with bombs as well. But has anyone figured a semi-working strategy?

Right now, during Prohorovka, PTAB's and BRS-132 work great, but my question is about earlier war.

Also, while we are on the subject, is it possible to make my squadron (eskadriliya) drop things like PTAB and the AJ self-igniting fluid from a low pass, like they did historically, and not from 500 meters up? I mean, my passes with those things kill 2-3 tanks, while theirs may kill one or two, thats the rest of them (7 planes).

Many thanks!

[edit] And speaking of bombs... Anyone have a good reason to choose VAP-loaded phosphorus instead of AJ-2? Historically, AJ-2 killed or disabled tanks by making its way through the observation slits and air intakes; and by burning out periscopes. Phosphorus just burned... AJ seems more effective against transport columns as well. So is there any hidden benefit in phosphorus?

GIAP.Shura
09-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Fly at a very low altitude, 10m or so, and either drop the bomb right on its head or skip the bomb into its side. To skip you need a fair lick of speed though, at least above 300 kph if I recall correctly. Also take into account the position of the bomb on the aircraft as most of the time it is two bombs on either side.

After that it is practice, practice, practice and be sure to record and review your attempts.

Marcel_Albert
09-17-2008, 11:08 AM
hi , not sure i can help but i'll try to answer even though i suppose you know this already.

To take out tanks , i use bombs and BRS mainly or ROFS rockets when flying Il-2. Just try to figure out the course of the tanks , align yourself with their course , then set your speed at your "usual bombing speed and alt" , for me it's around 350km/h and 200m or sometimes lower , then afterwards it 's just a question of feeling to know when to release the bomb to hit the tanks , but with practice you get more accurate .

In earlier war , tanks have not much armour , so it is easier to take them out with smaller bombs , it 's true that direct hits are helpful with the heavier tanks but i don't think it is necessary for all tanks , some get blown if your bomb is close enough . Rockets BRS and ROFS work well when you hit the tank from the rear , i rarely use PTAB against tanks but more against lightly armoured long columns on roads or trains in order to save my cannon ammos for more important targets (like AAA or tanks ).

About the AI able to drop Ptab or AJ stuffs from less than 500m , i think it depends their flight plan , if you play offline Dgen campaign auto-generation , you cannot control that , if you make or download human made missions , you can edit the AI waypoints to fit your liking or find some where AI would proceed as you wish . I don't know if there is a hidden benefit with VAP over AJ-2 , both are efficient against lightly armoured vehicles/troops (napalm like ) and some tanks , AJ-2 can also destroy ships , cheers

Foehammer-1
09-17-2008, 11:49 AM
Alright, thanks. Question about skip-bombing though... It works wonders on water, but does it also work on land?

Another thing is, how can I avoid getting blown to hell with 200kg of explosives 10 meters away? i have to set a 2-3 second elay, or my wings get ripped off. But if I hit the tank, and then the delay kicks in, by the time a bomb goes off, the tank would be long-gone, no?

In real life, they'd drop bombs and do a hard right or left bank, but in the game it consistently rips off the wing that's lower to the ground.

About AJ-2 and ships, cool, never tried that. Used BRS's instead, cause historically they easily punched through 50-60mm armor.

general_kalle
09-17-2008, 12:35 PM
with enough speed and a shallow enough angle you can do it on dry land aswell, although not quite as far as on water.

TinyTim
09-17-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Foehammer-1:
Alright, thanks. Question about skip-bombing though... It works wonders on water, but does it also work on land?

Another thing is, how can I avoid getting blown to hell with 200kg of explosives 10 meters away? i have to set a 2-3 second elay, or my wings get ripped off. But if I hit the tank, and then the delay kicks in, by the time a bomb goes off, the tank would be long-gone, no?



No. Ingame bombs glue to their targets between hit and a blow-up.

BTW, get IL2 1946, patch it up to 4.08 and get latest "addition" from AAA - you won't regret it. Original IL2 v1.2 looks like a dinosaur compared to what it has evolved into.

tragentsmith
09-17-2008, 12:46 PM
Practice will help.

Foehammer-1
09-17-2008, 02:33 PM
BTW, get IL2 1946, patch it up to 4.08 and get latest "addition" from AAA - you won't regret it. Original IL2 v1.2 looks like a dinosaur compared to what it has evolved into.

Unfortunately, Foe still has the original release. And he doesn't have the time to play anything these days (uni and all). I'll consider it, maybe for the next summer. And I shall try out this skip-bombing thing. With a delay.

GIAP.Shura
09-17-2008, 03:07 PM
For the small bombs 1.5 seconds is a sufficient delay and on certain I think I even went down to 0.8 seconds.

Altamov_Steppes
09-17-2008, 10:57 PM
Most of the Sturmoviks have bomb-aiming assists painted on their nose.
Release ordnance as the target passes under one of the lines (you don't need to see the target at that time).
The assists are used for both level and dive-bombing.

Regards KT

M_Gunz
09-18-2008, 01:17 AM
With that particular patch of IL2 I have used the cassette bomblets with 5 (IIRC) sec delay.
On a low release they hit and fan out. Dropped 200 or so meters from the side of a convoy
you can rack up a load of kills in no time, and pretty sure that includes tanks.

Just be sure and not be over the column when they go off, they don't slow down much and it's
possible to frag yourself this way.

Foehammer-1
09-21-2008, 06:23 PM
Most of the Sturmoviks have bomb-aiming assists painted on their nose.

Yeah, I've read about those. There were a couple marks that helped level-bombing from different altitudes, at specific speed. Unfortunately, they don't work for in-between altitude or angles other than parallel to the ground. Oh, and you can't see anywhere past the first one from the cockpit... At least in my version.

But I figured it out now. 2 second delay 100kg FAB's now consistently kill Panthers

joeap
09-22-2008, 05:55 AM
Hmmm ok M-Gunz and Foehammer, any links to how these nose lines were used in bombing, could you tell me what speeds/altitudes work? This is new to me after so long in the sim.

Foehammer-1
09-22-2008, 08:41 AM
Got my info from books, not websites.

Found this chart that tells ya how effective bombing was. It's in Russian, so I will just point out the important figures.

Accuracy of level bombing using marks on top of the engine. Probability (%) of hitting a strip of 20 x 100 meters with one bomb
From 50 meters: Single FAB-50: 3.5%, 4 FAB-50's 8%
From 200 meters: 2.3% and 4.3%, respectively.

Bottom line, stay low.

Uh, about using the marks, I couldn't find the optimal speed to use them. However, there were markings for 70, 100, 200, 300, and further, going by 100 meters.
Each mark had a number above it, clearly indicating the height.

If someone finds some more info, please, do share

[edit]

As you can see, this method was very ineffective. After modifying the IL's so they could dive better, the crews would climb to about 1200 meters, then point the aircraft down at a steep-ish angle and launch BRS-132 and drop bombs in a dive. It proved to be much more effective, since accuracy increased and tanks have little armor on top

joeap
09-22-2008, 09:57 AM
Thanks foehammer, and I see it was altamov not gunz who also mentions the nose marking. I always use shallow dive bombing myself in the Il-2, especially with moving targets like tanks.

VW-IceFire
09-22-2008, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Foehammer-1:
Alright, thanks. Question about skip-bombing though... It works wonders on water, but does it also work on land?

Another thing is, how can I avoid getting blown to hell with 200kg of explosives 10 meters away? i have to set a 2-3 second elay, or my wings get ripped off. But if I hit the tank, and then the delay kicks in, by the time a bomb goes off, the tank would be long-gone, no?

In real life, they'd drop bombs and do a hard right or left bank, but in the game it consistently rips off the wing that's lower to the ground.

About AJ-2 and ships, cool, never tried that. Used BRS's instead, cause historically they easily punched through 50-60mm armor.
Yes skip bombing does work on land...not quite as well as on water in my experience but possible.

A 1 or 2 second delay is enough to escape the smaller bombs. Just make sure you're going at a reasonable speed. If the tank is moving hope that he stops or try and aim for where he will be....its hard to get tanks with bombs that are moving.

Whats what the large cannons and rockets are for.

joeap
09-23-2008, 09:27 AM
Still no feedback on how to use the lines? Ah well off to the FMB or QMB.

Foehammer-1
09-23-2008, 11:55 AM
About the lines? try speed of about 250kph. Align your eye-line corresponding to height-target and release. reading a few posts above can also help. Specifically the "Uh, about using the marks, I couldn't find the optimal speed to use them. However, there were markings for 70, 100, 200, 300, and further, going by 100 meters.
Each mark had a number above it, clearly indicating the height."

Now, not sure HOW you can see those lines from the cockpit (I have original game, 1.2), but if you can, closest line to you is 70 meters, next is 100, then it goes by 100's.....

joeap
09-23-2008, 12:01 PM
Thanks, well it's only from the Il-2M on that you can see the lines. Specifically when the reflector gunsight is replaced by the one on the windscreen. The models too have all the lines, except for the early single seaters, at least in the default il-46 4.09 new default skins. Thanks again.