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Xiolablu3
11-10-2007, 09:52 PM
Often in the past month, I have come to a few interesting topics and wanted to reply, however they have been locked...

In the 'Why Fly Nazi' thread, BSS_Vidar got completely the wrong idea about one of my posts (seeing it from completely the wrong side), I was about to reply explaining things, yet I cannot reply because its locked!

The thread wasnt offensive as far as I could tell...

Its not just this thread, a few recently have been locked IMO sort of unecersarily....

So please mods, can we just let threads roll a bit more?

Korolov1986
11-10-2007, 10:04 PM
I think we have to admit that a lot of the threads in question were derailing into the "IDIOT ZONE" real fast. Nothing would have saved them, especially on the Zoo.

JG51_Rudel
11-10-2007, 10:16 PM
At least the admins are letting the threads to out of control.

Korolov1986
11-10-2007, 10:25 PM
Yeah, it's starting to look like party time around here. No mods around!

Quick! Get the strippers while we still can!

Taylortony
11-10-2007, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Korolov1986:
Yeah, it's starting to look like party time around here. No mods around!

Quick! Get the strippers while we still can!

Well knowing my luck and LeBillfish's, they will be male strippers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Korolov1986
11-10-2007, 10:41 PM
Man, you had to go and ruin it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Taylortony
11-10-2007, 10:43 PM
Well LeBillfish would enjoy them probably http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

ElAurens
11-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Strippers?

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7457/strippersvv9.jpg

L to R: 7.62 NATO, 6.5x55 Swedish, .303 British

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

M2morris
11-10-2007, 10:51 PM
I'm probly wayy off bcuase I am pretty tanked right now, but my first thought was, .308 on the left, some Russian stuuf on the right, and what the hell is that on top, some 6mm maybe?

ElAurens
11-10-2007, 10:58 PM
Note the caption under the photo...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

M2morris
11-10-2007, 11:05 PM
mkay, nite.
que the "snore sound" effects. I'm outa here too nuch bucking feer. nite.

WN_Barbarossa
11-11-2007, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Often in the past month, I have come to a few interesting topics and wanted to reply, however they have been locked...

In the 'Why Fly Nazi' thread, BSS_Vidar got completely the wrong idea about one of my posts (seeing it from completely the wrong side), I was about to reply explaining things, yet I cannot reply because its locked!

The thread wasnt offensive as far as I could tell...


That thread deserved the lock from the very beginning.

MEGILE
11-11-2007, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by WN_Barbarossa:

That thread deserved the lock from the very beginning.

Not really.

Considering 99% of the community posted in it, I fail how the thread was anything more than, a popular thread.

Had the thread been truly unwarrented, and disliked, it would not have reached 6 pages.

And people actually complain about fishing... lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

FritzGryphon
11-11-2007, 04:58 AM
The 6 pagers all suck. Good threads always fall off the page.

It just happens that the best way to keep a thread at the top is to incite a flame war. Informative discussions are always resolved peaceably, and down they go, off the page.

Replies should bump a thread -down-. 50cal, P-51, Nazi, hacking, antigravity, treadmill airplane... bump down all the way to hell.

DKoor
11-11-2007, 05:12 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

MEGILE
11-11-2007, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:


Replies should bump a thread -down-. 50cal, P-51, Nazi, hacking, antigravity, treadmill airplane... bump down all the way to hell.

LMAO.

but no.

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WN_Barbarossa:

That thread deserved the lock from the very beginning.

Not really.

Considering 99% of the community posted in it, I fail how the thread was anything more than, a popular thread.

Had the thread been truly unwarrented, and disliked, it would not have reached 6 pages.

And people actually complain about fishing... lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I locked that thread and I stated why quite clearly in the thread.. and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer. Some of you guys kill me. You cry and moan when things get out of hand.. "Where are the mods??" "The moderation here is so poor..." etc etc etc.. then when we DO try to moderate you complain about that ... We may not hit every nail on the head.. but we try... If you want to know why some threads get locked and others don't aside from the fact that sometimes mods just don't see them.. (if I am not mistaken I was the first mod to hit the thread Xio is referring to unless some saw it and let it go)... just look in the mirror and/or look around you because usually it is when quote king #1 takesd on quote king#2 in a battle of wits with un armed men in a thread that started off great but got hijacked or had the potentioa to be hijacked into a ego ridden slugfest of nonsensical proportions.

slipBall
11-11-2007, 05:30 AM
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

What doesnt make sense..? The title of the thread was Why fly Nazi?!! Seems pretty clear to me... if he had said why fly blue.. or why fly axis... ennnhh maybe.. but he said why fly Nazi.. seems pretty clear to me...

slipBall
11-11-2007, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

What doesnt make sense..? The title of the thread was Why fly Nazi?!! Seems pretty clear to me... if he had said why fly blue.. or why fly axis... ennnhh maybe.. but he said why fly Nazi.. seems pretty clear to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


In your quote you said "Axis" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif....

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2007, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Often in the past month, I have come to a few interesting topics and wanted to reply, however they have been locked...

In the 'Why Fly Nazi' thread, BSS_Vidar got completely the wrong idea about one of my posts (seeing it from completely the wrong side), I was about to reply explaining things, yet I cannot reply because its locked!

The thread wasnt offensive as far as I could tell...

Its not just this thread, a few recently have been locked IMO sort of unecersarily....

So please mods, can we just let threads roll a bit more?


Hi

You agreed to a set of rules when you signed up here. had to, to register

if anyone, and I mean anyone here thinks a thread is locked "unfairly", then y'all need to go read the rules again

ANY thread or ANY post can be edited, lcoked, or deleted at ANY Mod or Admin's whim, at ANY time . Logic, "fairness", "Right and Wrong"...these things mean NOTHING on this forum becasue of the TOS...and you all explicitly agreed that this set of circumstances was A-OK with you when you signed up

Sorry to be a little aggressive here on this Sunday morning, but if anyone here disagrees with how things are moderated, then ask yourselves why you agreed to let moderation have this iron grip on what you post

This is not a democracy here, there is no "Right" to "Free Speech" (actually it isn't even a "Right" in the USA which will be an eye-opener for some people), and it's not "unfair" for a mod to lock delete or edit a post or thread, when you agreed to give them that power when you signed up

DuxCorvan
11-11-2007, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

What doesnt make sense..? The title of the thread was Why fly Nazi?!! Seems pretty clear to me... if he had said why fly blue.. or why fly axis... ennnhh maybe.. but he said why fly Nazi.. seems pretty clear to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Indeed. Besides, it's very difficult to fly a nazi: they're heavier than air and have bad aerodynamics. Specially Göing. And Hess's eyebrows create a lot of drag.

DKoor
11-11-2007, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

What doesnt make sense..? The title of the thread was Why fly Nazi?!! Seems pretty clear to me... if he had said why fly blue.. or why fly axis... ennnhh maybe.. but he said why fly Nazi.. seems pretty clear to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Indeed. Besides, it's very difficult to fly a nazi: they're heavier than air and have bad aerodynamics. Specially Göing. And Hess's eyebrows create a lot of drag. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.mission4today.com/images/smiles/naughty.gif

csThor
11-11-2007, 06:30 AM
Honestly, Bearcat - I am a german citizen, native, very interested in aviation history (especially or almost exclusively concerning the Luftwaffe) and flying german aircraft almost exclusively (with some "escapades" in italian or romanian aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif ). I did not feel insulted by that "particular thread" - not even a tiny bit. Maybe that's just me but I've come across such pitiful creatures posting "How can you ..." questions and taking them very seriously. All I can do is make a mournful face and shake my head - people like that should stay away from combat simulations or militarily oriented games in general. I can't do anything about the poster's opinion nor would I want to (even though I'd prescribe a healthy dose of reality along with another dose of decent history books). So locking the thread for the reasons you posted ... I don't know. I did not feel the need to be "protected". Let him post that stuff as long as he wants - the more often he does the more often he makes a fool of himself. Let shame be his "cure" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
11-11-2007, 06:32 AM
The original post was amusing and senseless.

The serious replies only served to legitimise the discussion. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Perhaps a lock was warrented due to the political nature, but why posters complain about threads they post in is a mystery.

"Oh noes I hate this thread, but here is my reply, to keep this thread at the top of the page".

Kind of like a train wreck you just HAVE to look at. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

DmdSeeker
11-11-2007, 07:09 AM
Nice to see a bit of moderation being done.

Now if only we could all the off topic and personal attack stuff locked we might be getting somewhere.

Manos1
11-11-2007, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.. and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.

As somebody who flies exclusively for the Blue side and comes from a country who fought against & was occupied by the Axis forces (Germany+Italy) during WWII and who lost members of his family during the guerilla war, I can only say thanks for this.

It spares me watching my blood pressure going up thinking about the mental capacity of some people posting at the forums.

.

slipBall
11-11-2007, 07:28 AM
I think that Bearcats quote as written imply's that he would lock a thread with a title/post containing praise for a Axis aircraft. I think that he meant to say, any post containing the word Nazi....which still to me seem's a bit extream....after all, this sim is about that era

DKoor
11-11-2007, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Manos1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.. and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.

As somebody who flies exclusively for the Blue side and comes from a country who fought against & was occupied by the Axis forces (Germany+Italy) during WWII and who lost members of his family during the guerilla war, I can only say thanks for this.

It spares me watching my blood pressure going up thinking about the mental capacity of some people posting at the forums.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes you hit the nail in teh head....
Even trolls who have IQ little higher than outside temperature restrain from posting such cr@p.

Brain32
11-11-2007, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
I think that Bearcats quote as written imply's that he would lock a thread with a title/post containing praise for a Axis aircraft. I think that he meant to say, any post containing the word Nazi....which still to me seem's a bit extream....after all, this sim is about that era

Ummmmmmmmmm no... I mean hey I'm not a native english speaker, but I would say he said he would lock any thread which accuses(or even suggests) that people who fly Axis in this game are NAzi sympathizers, and I perfectly agree with that.

I mean how else can you understand this:

...and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.

Maybe I need to re-learn english http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tsisqua
11-11-2007, 07:57 AM
Trust me when I say that this particular mod has everyone's best interest in mind.

Give him a break. He's one of the good guys because he cares how people feel.


Tsisqua

DKoor
11-11-2007, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
I think that Bearcats quote as written imply's that he would lock a thread with a title/post containing praise for a Axis aircraft. I think that he meant to say, any post containing the word Nazi....which still to me seem's a bit extream....after all, this sim is about that era

Ummmmmmmmmm no... I mean hey I'm not a native english speaker, but I would say he said he would lock any thread which accuses(or even suggests) that people who fly Axis in this game are NAzi sympathizers, and I perfectly agree with that.

I mean how else can you understand this:

...and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.

Maybe I need to re-learn english http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>+1


Originally posted by tsisqua:
Trust me when I say that this particular mod has everyone's best interest in mind.

Give him a break. He's one of the good guys because he cares how people feel.


Tsisqua +1

Monterey13
11-11-2007, 08:20 AM
I am not a Nazi sympathizer, but I look at it this way....

Nazi's were a big part of WWII. It's a big part of history, like it or not. This sim is about WWII, and anything that was a part of the actual war should be a part of this sim. I mean, everyone here says they want realism, right? If you fly for Axis, and you want to wear a skin with a swastika, go for it. Don't try to change the facts of history to preserve someones' feelings. If someone is offended by Nazi symbolism, then they shouldn't be playing a WWII sim.

Part of what's wrong with this world today, is we are so worried about hurting someones' feelings, so many things are being taken away from us. Hell, our kids can't even recite the pledge of allegiance in school anymore.

Ease up, it's only a game.

I_KG100_Prien
11-11-2007, 08:22 AM
Hey look it's the quote spam he even mentioned in his post explaining the lock.

Bearcat knows this forum.

K_Freddie
11-11-2007, 08:39 AM
If you think getting locked after a few pages is bad, hop along over the the 'pongo' forums.
These guys don't have any sense of humour or capacity for simple discussion, never mind intelligent stuff.
This is why the flyboys are a cut above the ground dogs, and the navy, a few waves above the aviators.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

slipBall
11-11-2007, 09:10 AM
I don't get it!...history forgotten, is history repeated...my point was what happened back then happened, no sence closing our eyes now. This sim is about those war years, and should be freely discussed in a mature way....I like Bearcat, I just think that he is wrong on this one. He is the mod, and can lock all he wants....I just think many people today are a bit weak knee on history

Bewolf
11-11-2007, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
Honestly, Bearcat - I am a german citizen, native, very interested in aviation history (especially or almost exclusively concerning the Luftwaffe) and flying german aircraft almost exclusively (with some "escapades" in italian or romanian aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif ). I did not feel insulted by that "particular thread" - not even a tiny bit. Maybe that's just me but I've come across such pitiful creatures posting "How can you ..." questions and taking them very seriously. All I can do is make a mournful face and shake my head - people like that should stay away from combat simulations or militarily oriented games in general. I can't do anything about the poster's opinion nor would I want to (even though I'd prescribe a healthy dose of reality along with another dose of decent history books). So locking the thread for the reasons you posted ... I don't know. I did not feel the need to be "protected". Let him post that stuff as long as he wants - the more often he does the more often he makes a fool of himself. Let shame be his "cure" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Agreed to that. You won't get the idiots stop thinking the stuff they write anyways, lock or no lock. And most germans active in the internet get the blames sooner or later anyways, so its a known issue most learn to live with no problem.

And sometimes its not even bad to discuss this matter so ppl remember what this hobby is all about, and that it indeed is questionable to fly axis planes here if you lack propper background knowledge so one at least can say "yes, I know what happend, yes, I it can't happen again, I am fully aware of the implications but I fly it anyways as I am interested and by now above the eomitional aspects of the war generation". I like such ppl much more then those that go "hey, nazis are teh cool, lets fly the baddies!"

Bear, I really, really appreciate your attempts here concerning not equating germans and nazis. But to be honest, I rather have me or my granfather labled a nazi then having some political correctness force shield put over my head. Just because ppl stop saying it does not mean they stop thinking it.

BlitzPig_DDT
11-11-2007, 09:34 AM
Yo Tsisqua! What's up man? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good to see you're still around. Swing by the sty sometime. We'll get you on comms and you can hang out with us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/beerchug.gif

leitmotiv
11-11-2007, 10:15 AM
There are bores who think they can elevate themselves from being bores by chucking verbal hand grenades. They are the thread assassins.

One thing we can agree on:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/images/11/02/tx_cheerleaders.jpg

Daiichidoku
11-11-2007, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:

One thing we can agree on:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/tx_cheerleaders.jpg


even cherry picking of what one likes in particular is not a bad thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



the real problem is the ppl that ruin perfectly good thread with "issues" and "reasonable, rational measured thought", and other messy things

buncha punks.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

LEBillfish
11-11-2007, 10:46 AM
Awesome!....I've only seen one person in this thread qualified and experienced in UBI policies to know when and when not to lock a thread......

So I defer to Bearcat...

Lubcke
11-11-2007, 10:51 AM
I said it couple times here and would like to repeat it, threads shouldnt be locked, anyone should be able to say what they want and people who get offended by someone saying something should be checking in with they doctors.

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
I think that Bearcats quote as written imply's that he would lock a thread with a title/post containing praise for a Axis aircraft. I think that he meant to say, any post containing the word Nazi....which still to me seem's a bit extream....after all, this sim is about that era

I meant what I posted I don't need an interpreter... Man O DAY... is it ME!!?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Let me break this down for you... The post title was "Why fly Nazi?"... The poster then went on to say
im just curious as to why , when the total evil of nazism has long been exposed why people take on the affectation of being luftwaffe pilots...sure the bf109 is a cool aircraft to fly in a simulation, but its when people absorb the whole luftwaffe/nazi regalia is when i find the whole thing a little unsettling.

The implication being that if you like to fly German planes you are somehow "flying Nazi" rather than flying German... or if nationalism is a pet peeve of yours.. flying blue... hence.. the lock.

In my opinion it is better to err on the side of caution.

stalkervision
11-11-2007, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WN_Barbarossa:

That thread deserved the lock from the very beginning.

Not really.

Considering 99% of the community posted in it, I fail how the thread was anything more than, a popular thread.

Had the thread been truly unwarrented, and disliked, it would not have reached 6 pages.

And people actually complain about fishing... lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I locked that thread and I stated why quite clearly in the thread.. and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer. Some of you guys kill me. You cry and moan when things get out of hand.. "Where are the mods??" "The moderation here is so poor..." etc etc etc.. then when we DO try to moderate you complain about that ... We may not hit every nail on the head.. but we try... If you want to know why some threads get locked and others don't aside from the fact that sometimes mods just don't see them.. (if I am not mistaken I was the first mod to hit the thread Xio is referring to unless some saw it and let it go)... just look in the mirror and/or look around you because usually it is when quote king #1 takesd on quote king#2 in a battle of wits with un armed men in a thread that started off great but got hijacked or had the potentioa to be hijacked into a ego ridden slugfest of nonsensical proportions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

> I believe all Fishing Posts should be immediately locked. Fish are nasy little smelly creatures that deserve to be eaten whereever they are found on this planet. Especially with a nice brulee sauce. I was once bitten on the behind by a fish while on vacation and I have been tramatized ever since! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Don't even ask me what I feel about ocean crabs! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

bigbossmalone
11-11-2007, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
> I believe all Fishing Posts should be immediately locked. Fish are nasy little smelly creatures that deserve to be eaten whereever they are found on this planet. Especially with a nice brulee sauce. I was once bitten on the behind by a fish while on vacation and I have been tramatized ever since! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Don't even ask me what I feel about ocean crabs! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
+1
I like fish,especially with a little mayonnaise , slightly mixed with a mild chilli sauce...yum,yum.
If I was a mod here. I woulda been tempted to lock this thread from the title alone...that was probably inciteful enough, IMO.
I'm so glad to have found greener pastures recently, and the 'zoo' is now not much more than a gap-filler for me these days. after 3 + years of basically good stuff on this forum, it has rapidly started degenerating into a kiddie's slugfest, and I wouldn't be surprised if the last few decent folks on this forum all started bailing soon...how Bearcat has put up with the morons over the last few months is testament to the man's steadfastness, I for one am at the point of giving up completely on the 'zoo', especially considering that NOTHING pertaining to IL2 is going to be forthcoming over here in the future - think about it, guys - UBI and Oleg had a fallout awhile back- he is carrying on with BOB, and you can catch that news on the 1C forum - do any of you REALLY expect Oleg to pop in here and say hi? Believe me, it ain't gonna happen...
Oleg has seen the 'Ubi' light, it's about time some of you did as well...
Cheers

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2007, 01:03 PM
Hi all, Just thought i would stop by and add my two penneth for what its worth.

If a member at any time has an issue with the reasoning behind a thread lock or other moderation/ admin action they are of course welcome to ask for an explanation, however this should be done in private topic. Bearcat has happily discussed his reasons publicly in this thread but he would have been totally within his rights to lock this thread and divert it to private topic. It might be worth remembering that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I do also want to address some points made in this post..........


Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Hi

You agreed to a set of rules when you signed up here. had to, to register

if anyone, and I mean anyone here thinks a thread is locked "unfairly", then y'all need to go read the rules again

ANY thread or ANY post can be edited, lcoked, or deleted at ANY Mod or Admin's whim, at ANY time . Logic, "fairness", "Right and Wrong"...these things mean NOTHING on this forum becasue of the TOS...and you all explicitly agreed that this set of circumstances was A-OK with you when you signed up

Sorry to be a little aggressive here on this Sunday morning, but if anyone here disagrees with how things are moderated, then ask yourselves why you agreed to let moderation have this iron grip on what you post

This is not a democracy here, there is no "Right" to "Free Speech" (actually it isn't even a "Right" in the USA which will be an eye-opener for some people), and it's not "unfair" for a mod to lock delete or edit a post or thread, when you agreed to give them that power when you signed up

Whilst yes everyone did sign up and agree to a set of terms of use when registering this doesn't mean you have no right to question an action you don't understand or consider fair, however this should always be done in private topic.
Now before i go on i would like to make it clear i have not at anytime in the short time I've been on this forum seen a post or mod action by Bearcat i would question but IF a moderator on any of the Ubisoft forums were to act in a way you the member felt was questionable you have every right to address that. Yes your freedom of speech within the forums is only so long as you abide by the forum TOU but that doesn't mean you must do as you're told regardless of the reasoning behind it. I'm sure it wasn't the intention in the above post but i wanted to make that clear as it does to some degree suggest you signed the TOU and so must put up or shut up and this simply is not the case.

As i say under normal circumstances this issue should have been taken to Bearcat or myself in PT but as it's already well established and Bearcat seems happy to discuss it here it will stay open so long as he is happy for that to continue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 01:07 PM
Why thank you ma'mm...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2007, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:

I do also want to address some points made in this post..........

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Hi

You agreed to a set of rules when you signed up here. had to, to register

if anyone, and I mean anyone here thinks a thread is locked "unfairly", then y'all need to go read the rules again

ANY thread or ANY post can be edited, lcoked, or deleted at ANY Mod or Admin's whim, at ANY time . Logic, "fairness", "Right and Wrong"...these things mean NOTHING on this forum becasue of the TOS...and you all explicitly agreed that this set of circumstances was A-OK with you when you signed up

Sorry to be a little aggressive here on this Sunday morning, but if anyone here disagrees with how things are moderated, then ask yourselves why you agreed to let moderation have this iron grip on what you post

This is not a democracy here, there is no "Right" to "Free Speech" (actually it isn't even a "Right" in the USA which will be an eye-opener for some people), and it's not "unfair" for a mod to lock delete or edit a post or thread, when you agreed to give them that power when you signed up

Whilst yes everyone did sign up and agree to a set of terms of use when registering this doesn't mean you have no right to question an action you don't understand or consider fair, however this should always be done in private topic.
Now before i go on i would like to make it clear i have not at anytime in the short time I've been on this forum seen a post or mod action by Bearcat i would question but IF a moderator on any of the Ubisoft forums were to act in a way you the member felt was questionable you have every right to address that. Yes your freedom of speech within the forums is only so long as you abide by the forum TOU but that doesn't mean you must do as you're told regardless of the reasoning behind it. I'm sure it wasn't the intention in the above post but i wanted to make that clear as it does to some degree suggest you signed the TOU and so must put up or shut up and this simply is not the case.

As i say under normal circumstances this issue should have been taken to Bearcat or myself in PT but as it's already well established and Bearcat seems happy to discuss it here it will stay open so long as he is happy for that to continue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We disagree very much on what the TOS says

Members have no 'right' to question moderation. I'm happy that you personally are open to suggestion and leave the option of PT for these concerns, but it is not "the rules"

if somebody crosses the line, they are required to take responsibility for it, and if necessary face the consequences here. Just like almost any other forum. Those consequences range from locked threads to IP bans...but Admin and Moderation aren't required to entertain complaints about moderation

It's interesting to note that I have been banned from other forums for contacting Mods via Personal Message, concerning their actions on the public boards. I gave them that right, just as I gave Ubi, and you, and Bearcat, and others, that right, so long as you represent Ubi. I have no "right" to moan about it.. (ask Bearcat if I complain about moderation here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

just sayin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 01:46 PM
With a handfull..of exceptions most of the guys here are pretty level headed..

I, like the other mods am only human and I have a life, and some of the same pressures and stuff in my life that sometimes makes me more touchy than usual that most of the folks here do.. but I try to be fair and I have no problems admitting when I am wrong... publicly.. but I was a man when I got here I will be one afterwards.. and I have problems when people want to come here and publicly try to pee on me and call it rain... Not going to happen.. not without a response anyway... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

It is hard to keep a bunch of opinionated grown folks civil at times.. many of these folks have been around for 5+ years.. You would think that it would get easier but in some cases it gets harder. In many cases a moderator here is d@mned if he does and d@mned if he doesn't.. so we just try to do our best and keep stepping..

SeaFireLIV
11-11-2007, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Why thank you ma'mm...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

wow. A UK FORUM MANAGER?

Where did this person pop up from? And why the need I wonder?

I like Bearcat too, but, I don`t think a thread should be banned because someone said `Why fly nazi?`

If you read his post, he makes a genuine if naive post about why anyone would want to fly Axis.

I understand this and many others do to. When I first arrived here this is what I first thought and would`ve probably posted the same question, (although I would have said, `Why fly Axis?`, but the content would be the same) purely innocently, but I kept quiet and just kept reading.

Bit by bit, I understood that its a big world on the net and not everyone flies a WWII sim with the same thoughts or feelings and have some different very innocent reasons to fly Axis aircraft, ie, For fun, because they`re fascinated by the type, cos they`re better, etc, etc...

If the guy had posted `Why fly nazi` and then written a diatribe of insults against Axis players it would be different story.

It was an innocent, honest question that most new guys bought up on P51s, Spits and other Allied planes will wonder whenever he first comes to this forum.

I am also a little disturbed that we may be essentially `whitewashing` history here.

The thread may go downhill, but shouldn`t be banned for its question... Perhaps only edited to `Why fly axis?`

DuxCorvan
11-11-2007, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Perhaps only edited to `Why fly axis?`

Or converted into a hieroglyph:
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/756/187558.JPG http://www.flycontrol.novartis.com/images/garbage_fly_big.jpg http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/who/pics/himmler.jpg http://blogs.talis.com/panlibus/question%20cloud.JPG

SeaFireLIV
11-11-2007, 02:04 PM
yes....

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
wow. A UK FORUM MANAGER?
Where did this person pop up from? And why the need I wonder?
I like Bearcat too, but, I don`t think a thread should be banned because someone said `Why fly nazi?`
If you read his post, he makes a genuine if naive post about why anyone would want to fly Axis.

I understand this and many others do to. When I first arrived here this is what I first thought and would`ve probably posted the same question, (although I would have said, `Why fly Axis?`, but the content would be the same) purely innocently, but I kept quiet and just kept reading.

Bit by bit, I understood that its a big world on the net and not everyone flies a WWII sim with the same thoughts or feelings and have some different very innocent reasons to fly Axis aircraft, ie, For fun, because they`re fascinated by the type, cos they`re better, etc, etc...

If the guy had posted `Why fly nazi` and then written a diatribe of insults it would be different story.

It was an innocent, honest question that most new guys bought up on P51s, Spits and other Allied planes will wonder whenever he first comes to this forum.

The thread may go downhill, but shouldn`t be banned for its question... Perhaps only edited to `Why fly axis?`

Consider it a preemptive lock... you have been around here long enough to know that the thread could have taken a bad turn at any moment. There were any number of hot headed forum members from the U.S. and elsewhere who would have turned the thread into a flame fest.. all it takes is one post to send a thread south.. I wont mention any names but there are several who could have struck that match.. He didnt need a diatribe... all he needed was the statement that I quoted.. and even if the only one who appreciates the lock is Manos.. so be it. Id rather hear.."Why'd youy lock.." than "This thread should have been locked from the beginning..." It may have been an "innocent" question... but I bet he wont do it again. It amazes me... new guys come in here with questions that some of the old timers have heard a gazillion times.. and they get called trolls, told to RTFM.. etc.. A guy comes in .. asking Why fly Nazi planes? The thread gets a lock.. with a detailed explanation mind you..... and there are questions about it.... This place is like... so strange at times.... ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2007, 02:16 PM
@ BBB462cid perhaps my point was not clear but i was refering to situations when moderators or admins are not acting with the best intentions or are 'power hungrey' hence why i clarified Bearcat not falling into that. Yes when a moderator is acting correctly you have no right of reply so to speak because you will have clearly broken the TOU for them to address a situation in the first place, but when they are not which sadly does sometimes happen you have a right to address that.

@ seafire....i did say hello in a thread earlier in the week, you must have missed it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slipBall
11-11-2007, 02:19 PM
Let me break this down for you... The post title was "Why fly Nazi?"... The poster then went on to say
quote:
im just curious as to why , when the total evil of nazism has long been exposed why people take on the affectation of being luftwaffe pilots...sure the bf109 is a cool aircraft to fly in a simulation, but its when people absorb the whole luftwaffe/nazi regalia is when i find the whole thing a little unsettling.

(quote)
The implication being that if you like to fly German planes you are somehow "flying Nazi" rather than flying German... or if nationalism is a pet peeve of yours.. flying blue... hence.. the lock.

In my opinion it is better to err on the side of caution.


So be it then....I still think that men amoung men can discuse thing's that have occured in the past, without a stoppage of thought's, ideas, and feelings on these facts of history. After all, suppression of thought, and the written word, helped put them in power. You were a bit hard on the thread starter, I felt that I should speak up....PM was my route to take, next time I will >S<

DKoor
11-11-2007, 02:21 PM
Must.not.reply.in.this.thread.anymore.

With one last thought: Megile for the President of the Universum!

.........only handful of people can fully comprehend depth of his posts.

BlitzPig_DDT
11-11-2007, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Must.not.reply.in.this.thread.anymore.

With one last thought: Megile for the President of the Universum!

.........only handful of people can fully comprehend depth of his posts.

No, he doesn't like the Lerche. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

bigbossmalone
11-11-2007, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
This place is like... so strange at times.... ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

people are strange...when you're a stranger... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
---- Jim Morrison ---- http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ElAurens
11-11-2007, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
No, he doesn't like the Lerche. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Neither do I.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

waffen-79
11-11-2007, 02:39 PM
Guys...why can't we just get along?

muchaclopiec
11-11-2007, 03:34 PM
geee whizz

no insult, offence or whatever was intended by my original post..i dont think anyone is a nazi for flying luftwaffe i just wanted to have a discussion about how one dissociates fighting forces from the regime in power, i could have worded things a little less provocativeloy perhaps.but the amount of venom and insults displayed is very, very suprising. im not going to trade further insults here..all ill say is apologies for any offence caused, but lets not forget this is a discussion forum for a game.....

anyway its a beautiful day so im off to the beach.

Xiolablu3
11-11-2007, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

What doesnt make sense..? The title of the thread was Why fly Nazi?!! Seems pretty clear to me... if he had said why fly blue.. or why fly axis... ennnhh maybe.. but he said why fly Nazi.. seems pretty clear to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ahhh, now I see....


Thanks for the explanation.

If I could just say that I admire the job you guys do here. It must be the most hard place to moderate.

Trying to balance some of the questionable views/posts, and give everyone a say.

I like to think of myself as tolerant, but there have been some comments here in the past which would lead to me banning instantly for purely personal reasons, which means I would make a poor mod!

I just thought that recently, more than a few times I have headed into the forum in order to rerad some of the more interesting threads, only to find them locked and no way of replying.

But no worries, I realise we cant have anarchy in the forums.

You guys must be doing something right - this forum is UBIs most populuar game forum by far. The number of posts is double the next most popular forum , Prince of Persia.

slipBall
11-11-2007, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Must.not.reply.in.this.thread.anymore.

With one last thought: Megile for the President of the Universum!

.........only handful of people can fully comprehend depth of his posts.



Is he fluent in spanish?

DuxCorvan
11-11-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by slipBall:
Is he fluent in spanish?

No. Only a born Spaniard knows what to do with his tongue. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2007, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Is he fluent in spanish?

No. Only a born Spaniard knows what to do with his tongue. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose they make do with what they got http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Targ
11-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
(quote)
and I will lock any thread that even hints at a preference to flying Axis planes in this sim equates to being a Nazi sympathizer.



Bearcat, that does not make any sence...I think you are wrong on that

What doesnt make sense..? The title of the thread was Why fly Nazi?!! Seems pretty clear to me... if he had said why fly blue.. or why fly axis... ennnhh maybe.. but he said why fly Nazi.. seems pretty clear to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ahhh, now I see....


Thanks for the explanation.

If I could just say that I admire the job you guys do here. It must be the most hard place to moderate.

Trying to balance some of the questionable views/posts, and give everyone a say.

I like to think of myself as tolerant, but there have been some comments here in the past which would lead to me banning instantly for purely personal reasons, which means I would make a poor mod!

I just thought that recently, more than a few times I have headed into the forum in order to rerad some of the more interesting threads, only to find them locked and no way of replying.

But no worries, I realise we cant have anarchy in the forums.

You guys must be doing something right - this forum is UBIs most populuar game forum by far. The number of posts is double the next most popular forum , Prince of Persia. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually,
the post count is way way higher as they have culled the posts many times over the years.

Bearcat99
11-11-2007, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by muchaclopiec:
geee whizz

no insult, offence or whatever was intended by my original post..i dont think anyone is a nazi for flying luftwaffe i just wanted to have a discussion about how one dissociates fighting forces from the regime in power, i could have worded things a little less provocativeloy perhaps.but the amount of venom and insults displayed is very, very suprising. im not going to trade further insults here..all ill say is apologies for any offence caused, but lets not forget this is a discussion forum for a game.....

anyway its a beautiful day so im off to the beach.

NP.. thats why I didn't ban you.. had you been an old hat I would have... Y'see there have been other threads over the years asking the same question and they turned into flame fests.. and sometimes it just gets old man... I understand how cops can become like.... apparently oversensitive to the layman..
The Nazi title is a slur to many on these boards... Even in '39 although Nazis were German... they were NOT Germany... In order to have decent discussions here about the history that we all celebrate and have an obvious fascination with for better or worse, we must make sure that we don't apply the past to today. Hence the lock in a thread that is titled "Why fly Nazi?" as opposed to "Why fly German.. or Axis?". If you were to change the title of the thread I would be more than happy to unlock it... but as it is it is not right. Just like many Japanese members of these boards detest the term "J*p", hence we do not use it, because these boards are international and all the Japanese folks I know, American born and native... and there have been several over my years... find the term offensive, hence we do not allow it here... the word Nazi, because of all the evilness associated with the facts of Naziism ... is not something to be bandied about...

I dunno.. maybe I just look at things differently.. but the way I see it, sure this is a gaming forum... , but we have a unique opportunity to interact with people from all over the world here.... that we would not be afforded were it not for the technology at our disposal.

I can't help but try to take what I have at my disposal, with all of it's options here where ever I am to try to make the very best of such a privilege ... so I moderate the way I do. I may not call every ball or strike true.. but I do my best.. and in the case of your thread I think I called it right. If you want to see it have life, then change that title and I will reopen it. We are just people here.. and we all want the same stuff... for the guys it is cheap gas, sex on demand, and playtime... for the most part, for the ladies.. well h@ll I don't know what they want... if I could answer that I'd probably be rich... but in the meantime.. let's just share what we can, while we can, because all this... this whole thing ... can be gone with a pulled plug, a pushed switch..... Think about it. My dad couldn't talk to anyone from anywhere other than Pittsburgh 30 years ago... unless he already knew them and had their number. I get to talk in real time to people not only from all across the U.S. but across the world.... as do you.

Just give it a thought........

Cajun76
11-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Is he fluent in spanish?

No. Only a born Spaniard knows what to do with his tongue. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. A good Spanish tongue lashing was in order!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/shutup01a.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/20061017-hugoChavez.jpg


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

han freak solo
11-11-2007, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
Guys...why can't we just get along?

Them's kitty killin' words. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif