PDA

View Full Version : OT pc upgrade advice please



gizmo60
12-08-2007, 05:09 AM
hi, i have just acquired a Geforce 7900 GTX OC but my present pc doesnt have PCI Express so i figure it is time to upgrade.

unfortunately i am pretty much pc illiterate so if some of you good people could check out the following link as a starting point and post your thoughts i would greatly appreciate it

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INTEL-QUAD-CORE-Q6600-CPU-ASUS-P5...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INTEL-QUAD-CORE-Q6600-CPU-ASUS-P5N-E-SLI-4GB-800MHZ_W0QQitemZ140186912714QQihZ004QQcategoryZ131 535QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

cheers

stansdds
12-08-2007, 05:52 AM
You really don't need the expense of a quad-core CPU. For the vast majority of computer users, a dual-core CPU is plenty and it uses less energy and generates less heat.

Unless you are going to install Windows Vista, 4GB of RAM is a waste of money. Windows XP needs 1 GB to run efficiently, 2 GB is way more than enough. I'd also want to know the brand of RAM they are using. The cheap RAM is ok until you begin to overclock, then it can become a limiting factor in your computer's performance.

The motherboard is nice, features two PCI-e slots if you ever decide to use two video cards in SLI. Personally, I don't care for the complexity of SLI, I prefer one card and just make it the best card I can afford.

Don't forget the power supply, get a good one, not something cheap, and a minimum of 600 watts with three +12v lines, each at 15 or more amps is a good start.

RAF_OldBuzzard
12-08-2007, 03:27 PM
If you are going to use XP or Vista in their 32 bit versions, stansdds is right about 4 GIG of memory.

However, I'd highly recommend that you go with one of the 64 bit versions. That will allow you to use all 4 gig, and while most applications TODAY won't 'need' that much RAM, there are some coming that will. SoW(BoB) just may need that much, and even if it doesn't, the more memory you have, the less you will use the Pagefile, and that alone will increase performance across the board.

He's also pretty spot on about PSUs. The PSU is the most important component in your system. Way too many people have destroyed perfectly good systems by 'saving money' on the PSU, and getting the cheapest they can find. A cheap, low quality PSU will fail, and more often than not it will take something with it..CPU, mainboard, video card, etc. Saving $50.00 by using a cheap PSU is false economy when that PSU fails and destroys your $300.00 video card.

Here is an excellent site for info on PSUs: http://www.jonnyguru.com/index.php

He does VERY good in depth reviews on PSUs and is as good as anyone you will find. I'm using a CORSAIR HX620 in my system, which is more that I need, but I do have crossfire capability. and if I add a 2nd card I know that my current PSU will handle the load.

That's my $0.02, and I hope it helps a bit.

gizmo60
12-09-2007, 04:14 AM
thanks for the input guys,, brought me back to reality http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

with regards the PSU i've always figured a bigger engine would last longer than a small one and bought accordingly

the jonnyguru link is very handy, answered a lot of silly questions like 'what is a rail'

i do have lots of other questions but for now im stuck on AMD vs Pentium.
is AMD still better for gaming, im thinking specifically of dual core 6 ghz

thanks again

Chivas
12-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Oleg can't give much info on system requirements but he has suggested that SOW will be able use multiple cpus. There is no info on ewhether a Quad would be better choice than a Dual for the SOW series.

IMHO Intel is a better choice at this time but that could change by the release of BOB. You can't go wrong by choosing a Conroe 6300 or 6400 that will easily overclock to 3gigs. I recently upgraded my 6400 to a 6850 dual core and have it running 3.6gigs with a couple clicks in the bios and will push it 4 gigs or so when SOW comes out. There are also some very good quad cpus relatively cheap.

Currently I also have the 7900GTX but will wait for the next generation Video card to upgrade.

The Asus P5B Deluxe is a very good motherboard for overclocking. I may look at upgrading to the 780i motherboards when they come out later this year. I think they will have two versions... an SLI and Crossfire, but I'm not yet sold on either dual video card setup.

One problem with deciding to upgrade to the second video card later,,,is the availablility of the same card. Its very hard to find another 7900 GTX, and by that time, the newer release video cards start looking like a better choice.

horseback
12-09-2007, 12:18 PM
Generally speaking, motherboards come with lots of bells & whistles that many users will not use; I generally look for the best chipset available, with PCI-E for my videocard, high speed ethernet, enough slots for my target RAM, lots of USB ports, plus support for RAID on multiple SATA HDs and at least two vanilla PCI slots, since I prefer to buy a seperate soundcard rather than use the onboard sound.

Asus has a nice less expensive P35 chipset based board with a single PCI-E x 16 slot that will handle the Intel dual core and quad core processors nicely for under $130 USD, the P5K-SE. However, it doesn't appear to support RAID, so I went to an MSI P35 Neo 2, again with fewer bells & whistles and lower cost.

Generally, in the mid-priced range, Intel Quad Core or Core 2 beat the AMD competition right now, and I'm seeing the E4500 for under $120 locally. Coupled with a P35 or P965 chipset, that will meet most of your gaming needs for a while.

A couple of Gigs of RAM, that videocard, and maybe an Audigy soundcard added to the Core 2 and a decent mobo will give you most of what you want.

cheers

horseback

Chris0382
12-09-2007, 02:46 PM
Here is what I just purchased for about $320 4 GB RAM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130065

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103771

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146118

Note great rating and price and quality.

Xiolablu3
12-09-2007, 02:54 PM
Tell us how much you are thinking of spending, then we can give you some good ideas, Gizmo.

I am great at building mid range PC's for incredibly low prices, but I dont know much about high end parts.

I just upgraded my Athlon XP system to a A64 X2 4200+ (overclocked to around 5000+ = 2700mhz so far), new motherboard and 7900GS, did it all for 120. Are you thinking of spending a lot more than that? If so then I'll leave you to the 'big spenders' for their advice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


One piece of advice I WOULD give, is DONT go for a Quad Core cpu, spend the extra money oyu would spend on a qwuad core on a faster Dual Core, whther its Intel or AMD. Games arent even SUPPORTING dual core yet, never mind REQUIRING it. Its unlikely games will be programmed to take advantage of Quad cores for an extremely long time yet. A dual core at a faster clockspeed will perform far better for you.

F0_Dark_P
12-09-2007, 04:42 PM
Sorry for the swedish but i have my eyes on this rig http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.komplett.se/k/shoplist.aspx?mode=receive&si=...24-BA25-3C5F1DF47BCF (http://www.komplett.se/k/shoplist.aspx?mode=receive&si=535811&su=165DC904-67BB-4624-BA25-3C5F1DF47BCF)

Chris0382
12-09-2007, 05:23 PM
Nice 775 MB SYSTEM

Ide get 4 GB RAM as its quite cheap now.

RAF_OldBuzzard
12-09-2007, 05:58 PM
I'd say that for the CPU, go with the brand that you have more confidence in. It's true that the Intels have better performance, but it takes benchmarking to really see the difference. For every day use, 99.99% of the the people using them won't be able to discern the differences. It's like vid card A giving you 200 FPS in a game and vid card B giving you 205. Yeah, B is faster than A, but can anyone really 'see' it?

As for Dual/Quad core. I'd go for the Quad. Maybe Quad isn't used/needed right now, but you will have it if/when it becomes necessary.

Vid cards, right now it's definately Nvidia for high end, all out performance. ATI has slipped in that regard, but still holds the edge in Image Quality, and driver support. Right now, I'd get an ATI 38xx even tho it's slower than the high end Nvidia because they are the only ones with Dx 10.1 support.

Motherboard. The high end 'overclocker's boards do have a certain advantage even if you aren't going to OC. They will be much more stable and trouble free in the long run. Remember, Flight Sims are very demanding applications, and will stress your whole system much more that the average run and gun shooter.

Before I build a new system, I always do a LOT of research on the net. Make a list of your 'projected' system, then look for reviews. Make sure you read multiple reviews on each part because there are a lot 'FanBoi' sites out there that will give biased reviews. The more reviews that you look at for each part will help seperate the wheat from the chaff. One case in point, Toms Hardware. They are notorious for being Intil *****s, and I avoid them like the plague.

Just a bit of an old farts rambling, but I hope this helps a bit.

gizmo60
12-10-2007, 02:48 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
To all who have posted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

the position at the moment having spent all weekend surfing the net and scanning ebay is this

already have
7900 GTX OC
Corsair HX620 PSU

and got the following shortlist

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&it...=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170173746381&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&it...=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180189466147&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008)

disregarding the fact the first (intel) doesnt have memory and the second (amd) has unspecified memory (Edit; VDATA (2 x 1GB) 800Mhz DDR2 RAM.)
(when funds allow i intend to get Corsair 2x2gb or equivalent)

the 64 million pound guestion is....
which mobo and cpu combo do you think is better

personally i am swayed toward the AMD for 2 reasons
my present AMD3000+ has served me well for the last couple of years
and it has SLI if i should want it in the future

and that is about as technical as i am able to get

thanks once again for all your input http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

RAF_OldBuzzard
12-10-2007, 03:55 AM
Of the two I think I'd go for the AMD system, since it's SLI capable, and has the 2 gig of memory.

One thing to note on the Intel info. It IS NOT a 6.0 Ghz cpu it's 3.0 Ghz. It doesn't matter how many cores a CPU has. If it's clock is 2.2 Ghz it a 2.2 Ghz system, and not a 4.4 if dual or 8.8 if quad.

gizmo60
12-10-2007, 04:31 AM
thanks OldBuzzard
yes, i realise now it is not 6ghz but 2x3ghz.
apart from a headache and some despairing looks from my lady i have managed to pick up a few nuggets of information over the weekend.

and BoB2 WoV has just dropped through the letterbox

happy days

Chris0382
12-10-2007, 05:15 AM
Lets say a game requires a 5 Ghz processor, then I believe a 2 x 3 Ghz = virtual 6 GHz will be allowed to install the game?

willyvic
12-10-2007, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by Chris0382:
Lets say a game requires a 5 Ghz processor, then I believe a 2 x 3 Ghz = virtual 6 GHz will be allowed to install the game?


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Chris0382
12-10-2007, 06:22 AM
You looked confused Willy

Certain games wont even install unless you have a certain Ghz processor. By having a dual core or core-duo, the game interprets you as having twice the speed of your processor I believe so you could then install that game if the actual speed is lower than the games requirement.

Harti_5thW
12-10-2007, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by Chris0382:
You looked confused Willy

Certain games wont even install unless you have a certain Ghz processor. By having a dual core or core-duo, the game interprets you as having twice the speed of your processor I believe so you could then install that game if the actual speed is lower than the games requirement.

No, it doesn't. By that logic it would mean that I have a 9.6Ghz cpu. It isn't as simple as adding up.

Oh, and why the hell would you get a 7900gtx? Get an 8800gt. It's only about 5/10% slower than a 8800gtx but it only costs about $250.
Buying any card that's not an 8800gt is ridiculous at the moment.

gizmo60
12-10-2007, 10:21 AM
umm, i never said i bought it
and i've never been one to look a gift horse in the mouth

Chris0382
12-10-2007, 01:14 PM
What dual core processor do you have thats 4.8 Ghz then. I think the logic stands as a performance test of my system to run a game (forgot which one) double my CPU speed and said I could install the game.

I agree I'de bypass all new card purchases and get a 8800 of some sort. Make sure you have ample power connectors (some 7900GT's need 2-4 pin connections)the 8800GTS I looked at needed only one.

Xiolablu3
12-10-2007, 05:12 PM
OK guys lets clear up a few things.

Dual core basically means nothing in games right now, although it would be wise to get one as it wont be long before most CPU's are dual core.

Quad Core is overkill right now.

The choice between anyone buying a new CPU/Mobo right now should be between a Core2Duo Intel E6XXX series or a Athlon 64 X2. Intel is faster but more expensive, I still think AMD rule the midrange and low end for 'bang for buck' although if you overclock the intel , then it makes things more difficult to judge.

2 cores makes no difference in games really right now, an Athlon 64 4000+ with one core will perform nearly as well as a 3800+ Athlon with two cores.

When a game lists Mhz in minimum specs, its is talking equivelent to a pentium 4 or a Athlon XP single core 32 bit CPU. So if it lists 4ghz cpu, then think of around a Athlon 64 4000+, Athlon 4000+ X2, or a Intel E6300 Core2Duo, or a 4 Ghz Pentium 4.

For simplicity, a game basically runs on a single core, so if the game lists requirements of 4ghz CPU, then you cant just add the cores togther and have the answer, it doesnt work like that.

Core2Duos and Athlon 64's do more work per MhZ than the older P4 and XP chips, so you can basically forget the Mhz as far as game requirements go. Any Core2Duo will run games for a good while yet, and even the Athlon X2 Dual Cores and A64's should be fine as long as its coupled with a good Gfx card.

Oh, and the reason to buy a 7900GS over a 8800GT is the price, the 7900GS is around 60, the 8800GT is a lot lot more.

GAU-8
12-10-2007, 09:53 PM
i have learned one big thing (for me) when it comes time to upgrading.

if i want to upgrade, I do it about 1 year AFTER the big game/tech stuff i have been waiting on comes out. NEVER before.