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View Full Version : Wow, Ezio... You know things 100 years ahead of you. [MILD ACR SPOILERS]



LordWolv
12-02-2011, 01:41 PM
Just thought I'd share this with you. I'm not complaining or anything.

So, I'm sure you all recall the mission in ACR where Ezio disguises himself as a lute player and has a good sing to the party goers. I'd like to bring your attention to this particular phrase he sang:

“Cesare, oh Cesare, a man of great depravity. Believed himself immortal ‘til, he had a date with gravity.”

Nothing wrong? Might even be funny? Well, I'll tell you something funny. Gravity wasn't discovered until 1650 by Sir Isaac Newton.

Since ACII, the games have been set around the year of 1450 and 1550. Unless Ezio conveniently has powers of knowing things someone discovered before that person was even born.. I think the researchers just slipped.

Thought I'd share that with you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

itsamea-mario
12-02-2011, 01:44 PM
You think this makes you a better person or something?


Joking.


But I suppose, blame it on the the apple...

...or the animus?

Assassin_M
12-02-2011, 01:46 PM
Well, lets see..

Ezio knew Desmond, who is ahead of him by about 500 years.
Ezio knew about the presence of the Americas, long before they were historically discovered.

I dont see why he wouldnt know about Gravity, he HAD the Apple..

Rakudaton
12-02-2011, 02:18 PM
*Insert appropriate facepalm picture here*

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif Just kidding, wouldn't want to be mean.

Isaac Newton did not discover gravity. The first person to fall over, or jump and come down again, discovered gravity. Newton just explained and mathematically modelled it. I'm pretty sure people had noticed that things tended to fall downwards by Ezio's time.

Now, it's fair to say that the word "gravity" may not have been in use (I don't know, not having a background in etymology). But remember the animus is translating for us; it's possible that it went and creatively translated the gist of Ezio's words into modern English. We don't know how the animus software handles idioms after all.

SolidSage
12-02-2011, 03:05 PM
Another major point to tKe into account in reference to the scientific communities and discoveries, is that many times, an element or law has been discovered long years prior to the Scientist who actually wrote a paper about discovering whatever it was.
Science history records confirm on several major occasions that the Scientist or thinker, credited with the discovery of one thing or another, actually wasn't the original finder.

"A short history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson is now standard course material in a lot of Schools, wish they had it when I went through. Its a very good record of Science History and keeps it understandable for the lay person.

What I am getting at here Isaac, is that although Newton mat have been the first to author and prove gravity, he wasn't necessarily the first to think about it, or concieve a notion involving it. With Ezio's close proximity to another world renowned thinker, and innovator (we all know who) it is entirely possible that he heard of the thing called Gravity in his era.

Remember the Creed, "nothing is true". Including what is written in books, by men, seeking renown. Apparently the scientific community was very cut throat in that regard.

Science is about longevity as much as it is about discovery, the Scientist generally has to live long enough for his/her works to be verified and accepted by the world at large. Many have passed from the world long before their contributions were ever considered valid.

Anyway, you're probably right and it was an error, but still, Leonardo knowing something of it isn't entirely out of the realm of plausability. Nice attention to detail though.

InfectedNation
12-02-2011, 03:13 PM
Is nobody sensing the irony that Isaac Newton "discovered" gravity because of an APPLE? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jeremytwoface
12-02-2011, 03:23 PM
I'm trying to think of something funny to say about Issac Newton and the Apple of Eden and gravity.... Maybe something with The Apple falling from a tree.



I got nothing.

jeremytwoface
12-02-2011, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by InfectedNation:
Is nobody sensing the irony that Isaac Newton "discovered" gravity because of an APPLE? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



THAT is what I'm trying to get at..


hahah..

kriegerdesgottes
12-02-2011, 04:16 PM
This did cross my mind but I guess they threw historical accuracy out the window while they were buying parachutes( a 18th century French invention) from a tailor in Constantinople in the 16th century.

NineteenHealer
12-02-2011, 04:53 PM
i restarted assassin's creed 1 and i was talking to Lucy, Desmond was asking why altiar, al malium, etc, was speaking modern language/grammar. Lucy explained something about the animus language filter that makes the characters speak modern English/grammar.

LightRey
12-02-2011, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by NineteenHealer:
i restarted assassin's creed 1 and i was talking to Lucy, Desmond was asking why altiar, al malium, etc, was speaking modern language/grammar. Lucy explained something about the animus language filter that makes the characters speak modern English/grammar.
That would still not be an adequate explanation. There really would not have been an Italian equivalent of the word "Gravity" at that time.

Assuming this isn't just there because it's funny and there isn't really a reason Ezio knows about gravity, I think the most logical explanation would be that someone like Leonardo had already basically figured out the concept of gravity (which is actually quite likely).

Agentbarto
12-02-2011, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NineteenHealer:
i restarted assassin's creed 1 and i was talking to Lucy, Desmond was asking why altiar, al malium, etc, was speaking modern language/grammar. Lucy explained something about the animus language filter that makes the characters speak modern English/grammar.
That would still not be an adequate explanation. There really would not have been an Italian equivalent of the word "Gravity" at that time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know that for certain...

LordWolv
12-02-2011, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NineteenHealer:
i restarted assassin's creed 1 and i was talking to Lucy, Desmond was asking why altiar, al malium, etc, was speaking modern language/grammar. Lucy explained something about the animus language filter that makes the characters speak modern English/grammar.
That would still not be an adequate explanation. There really would not have been an Italian equivalent of the word "Gravity" at that time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know that for certain... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nor do you. Someone go and get in an animus and check.
No, but seriously. I guess it IS possible Leonardo had the idea before Newton, and Yes, everyone who isn't conveniently floating IS influenced by the force.. but.. In that time period, it was non-existent. People assumed things fell to the floor, just because they did. In that time period, they didn't NEED an explanation for it. That's why I'm doubting there's a word or ever phrase for it in the 16th century.

For instance, if the animus translated it, it would have to translate it from something like this:

“Cesare, oh Cesare, a man of great depravity. Believed himself immortal ‘til, he had a date with a force that threw him off a bridge.”

Into:

“Cesare, oh Cesare, a man of great depravity. Believed himself immortal ‘til, he had a date with gravity.”

See? The animus wouldn't do that automatically. Lute player's songs are meant to rhyme, as well, so I really see no explanation other than the slight possibility the Apple told him things.

EzioAssassin51
12-03-2011, 05:14 AM
I agree, Ezio knew from the apple http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

haha but seriously, I'm just going to go with a bit of a slip up by the devs, just for a laugh after all and chances are you might not even hear the song, so it's silly to look too far into this or stress about it. It was all in good fun.

LordWolv
12-03-2011, 05:21 AM
I said nothing about stressing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

LightRey
12-03-2011, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NineteenHealer:
i restarted assassin's creed 1 and i was talking to Lucy, Desmond was asking why altiar, al malium, etc, was speaking modern language/grammar. Lucy explained something about the animus language filter that makes the characters speak modern English/grammar.
That would still not be an adequate explanation. There really would not have been an Italian equivalent of the word "Gravity" at that time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know that for certain... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We also don't know for certain if there were rampaging slime monsters back then, but lack of evidence strongly suggests that they weren't there. Same goes for an Italian equivalent of the word "gravity".

eagleforlife1
12-03-2011, 11:42 AM
Historically, Galileo, who was Italian, was he first person to mention gravity (and he was born 40 years after Ezio died).

LightRey
12-03-2011, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by eagleforlife1:
Historically, Galileo, who was Italian, was he first person to mention gravity (and he was born 40 years after Ezio died).
True.

EzioAssassin51
12-03-2011, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Isaac500:
I said nothing about stressing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I know, I'm just saying...

Agentbarto
12-03-2011, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NineteenHealer:
i restarted assassin's creed 1 and i was talking to Lucy, Desmond was asking why altiar, al malium, etc, was speaking modern language/grammar. Lucy explained something about the animus language filter that makes the characters speak modern English/grammar.
That would still not be an adequate explanation. There really would not have been an Italian equivalent of the word "Gravity" at that time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know that for certain... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We also don't know for certain if there were rampaging slime monsters back then, but lack of evidence strongly suggests that they weren't there. Same goes for an Italian equivalent of the word "gravity". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooh let's not go into the debate about evidence collected indicative of absolute facts again...

But yes I agree, though with human society evidence for "facts" tends to be taken with a grain of salt more so than with dinosaur bone.

LightRey
12-03-2011, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Oooh let's not go into the debate about evidence collected indicative of absolute facts again...

But yes I agree, though with human society evidence for "facts" tends to be taken with a grain of salt more so than with dinosaur bone.
I'm not saying it's fact, I'm saying that at this point there's no reason to think otherwise, especially considering the enourmous amount of literary evidence from the Italian Renaissance.

E-Zekiel
12-03-2011, 03:54 PM
It's really a bunch of nonsense to say that gravity & the Americas were not discovered until such and such date blah blah. It's just not. Christopher Columbus was no the first person ever to realize OH MY GOD THERE'S A LAND MASS THERE. It was not widely known, but neither a secret, when he discovered the place. That is basically when it became more famous, because he went with the intent of establishing trade with the Indians (from India). Instead, since economics were already in mind, colonization was what they went with.

Same with gravity. As mentioned by other posters, the date being referred to here is the one that came up with the formula. Not the one that figured out, oh, hey...We're attracted to the ground.

I'd be really damned surprised if they DID NOT have a word for gravity in the 16th century, or for a very, very long time before then. Unless every language in existence just conveniently (to suit your theory) forgot to include a word for the reason/force behind us being pulled to the ground. That's a major linguistic inconvenience.

With that said, this is really, really, really anal.

Agentbarto
12-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Oooh let's not go into the debate about evidence collected indicative of absolute facts again...

But yes I agree, though with human society evidence for "facts" tends to be taken with a grain of salt more so than with dinosaur bone.
I'm not saying it's fact, I'm saying that at this point there's no reason to think otherwise, especially considering the enourmous amount of literary evidence from the Italian Renaissance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you do realize that the literary evidence we base our facts on is only the well known or well preserved? It's very possible that some hermit figured out the basic principle of general gravity. Had Einstein never gone public with his discoveries, though he unified space and time into what we now understand to be a "necessary" characteristic of the universe's construction, the world may never have discovered such a thing was possible, hence my argument that while its unlikely Ezio knew about the concept of gravity on his own w/o the aid of the apple, we must leave room for doubt.

LightRey
12-03-2011, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by E-Zekiel:
It's really a bunch of nonsense to say that gravity & the Americas were not discovered until such and such date blah blah. It's just not. Christopher Columbus was no the first person ever to realize OH MY GOD THERE'S A LAND MASS THERE. It was not widely known, but neither a secret, when he discovered the place. That is basically when it became more famous, because he went with the intent of establishing trade with the Indians (from India). Instead, since economics were already in mind, colonization was what they went with.

Same with gravity. As mentioned by other posters, the date being referred to here is the one that came up with the formula. Not the one that figured out, oh, hey...We're attracted to the ground.

I'd be really damned surprised if they DID NOT have a word for gravity in the 16th century, or for a very, very long time before then. Unless every language in existence just conveniently (to suit your theory) forgot to include a word for the reason/force behind us being pulled to the ground. That's a major linguistic inconvenience.
Actually, before Columbus, the only people who were aware of the Americas were the Normans and The Native Americans. There would have been basically nobody, especially amongst the general populace, that would've been aware of there being a whole new continent there. During those days people were as ignorant as to think that there were two-headed people living in India.

As for Gravity, before Galileo, the most reliable and relatively commonly known theory at the time was that of Aristotle, who lived over 1800 years before the events of ACII and that theory involved heavier objects falling faster than lighter ones (which is of course incorrect) and objects falling being caused the Earth was supposedly their "home".


Originally posted by Agentbarto:
you do realize that the literary evidence we base our facts on is only the well known or well preserved? It's very possible that some hermit figured out the basic principle of general gravity. Had Einstein never gone public with his discoveries, though he unified space and time into what we now understand to be a "necessary" characteristic of the universe's construction, the world may never have discovered such a thing was possible, hence my argument that while its unlikely Ezio knew about the concept of gravity on his own w/o the aid of the apple, we must leave room for doubt.

And how in the world would Ezio have become aware of such a term or even bother to use it in a damn song, if it weren't a common one?

Agentbarto
12-03-2011, 04:15 PM
oh come on, ever heard of "angst"? That word is simply transposed into the English language not translated into some English equivalent, because the concept of "angst" was not known prior to its migration. That being said the Animus works the same way because it works on a genetic level as well as a psychologic level. So translating a concept into a word could work very much the same way. If you are going to mention how others understood him, hey it's the Animus, not everything in there actually occurred the way we see it in the Animus; remember that Lucy once said that only some of the bird perches and haystacks were actually located in the real world counterpart of the location we scale in the Animus, and that most were placed there artificially.

LightRey
12-03-2011, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
oh come on, ever heard of "angst"? That word is simply transposed into the English language not translated into some English equivalent, because the concept of "angst" was not known prior to its migration. That being said the Animus works the same way because it works on a genetic level as well as a psychologic level. So translating a concept into a word could work very much the same way. If you are going to mention how others understood him, hey it's the Animus, not everything in there actually occurred the way we see it in the Animus; remember that Lucy once said that only some of the bird perches and haystacks were actually located in the real world counterpart of the location we scale in the Animus, and that most were placed there artificially.
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, assuming someone at the time actually figured out a concept similar enough to the concept of "gravity" to have a name for it, such a word would still unlikely have been common in the Italian, or any other, language, as it would've shown up in the many documents available from those times, especially regarding scientific topics.

This begs the question how Ezio would've become aware of such a word if it was so uncommon.

Agentbarto
12-03-2011, 04:38 PM
Again words can be translated from concepts. Besides keep in mind the Ottomans would have had to have understood Italian and therefore probably cross-referenced the concept with their own understanding and their own language. Cross-lingual communication is not so simple as you seem to be expressing it to be.

DannyStrong
12-03-2011, 04:51 PM
you really just have to accept it as a tranlation. The entire lute sequence doesn't really make sense language wise if you think about it.. all the words and stuff ryme in english, but if sung in italian I'm sure it wouldn't fit his tune quite as well.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Again words can be translated from concepts. Besides keep in mind the Ottomans would have had to have understood Italian and therefore probably cross-referenced the concept with their own understanding and their own language. Cross-lingual communication is not so simple as you seem to be expressing it to be.
That's not the point. The point is that there was no word for "gravity" because the concept didn't exist in any language.

itsamea-mario
12-04-2011, 03:09 AM
I really wouldn't read too much into these songs, the fact that they rhyme makes no sense, since I'm fairly sure the Italian translations wouldn't.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
I really wouldn't read too much into these songs, the fact that they rhyme makes no sense, since I'm fairly sure the Italian translations wouldn't.
Precisely.

Agentbarto
12-04-2011, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Again words can be translated from concepts. Besides keep in mind the Ottomans would have had to have understood Italian and therefore probably cross-referenced the concept with their own understanding and their own language. Cross-lingual communication is not so simple as you seem to be expressing it to be.
That's not the point. The point is that there was no word for "gravity" because the concept didn't exist in any language. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know that for certain, it's likely you're right, but theres a reason we still have historians around; we tend to miss stuff.

RzaRecta357
12-04-2011, 09:49 AM
Wow, were actually at 2 pages of this dumb argument when it's extremely obvious they just wanted to make a Cesare joke and never thought about the line.

What's to debate? Honestly? A hermit may of known it but the rest of the world wouldn't.

Alright. But maybe, just maybe...in the world where the magic glowing metallic apple that can show you things from the past and future told him.

Maybe it didn't.

Who cares. :P

LightRey
12-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Again words can be translated from concepts. Besides keep in mind the Ottomans would have had to have understood Italian and therefore probably cross-referenced the concept with their own understanding and their own language. Cross-lingual communication is not so simple as you seem to be expressing it to be.
That's not the point. The point is that there was no word for "gravity" because the concept didn't exist in any language. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know that for certain, it's likely you're right, but theres a reason we still have historians around; we tend to miss stuff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, we tend to miss stuff, but usually not common stuff, especially from those times. So if Ezio had a name for "gravity" he'd have to have heard it from Leonardo, which was my original relatively probable explanation.

Agentbarto
12-04-2011, 10:41 AM
Commonality depends on culture, and Leonardo is a possibility, however some other scholar he met along the way is equally as plausible.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Commonality depends on culture, and Leonardo is a possibility, however some other scholar he met along the way is equally as plausible.
Woulda been one helluva scholar.

Agentbarto
12-04-2011, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Commonality depends on culture, and Leonardo is a possibility, however some other scholar he met along the way is equally as plausible.
Woulda been one helluva scholar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Possibly

Silvrslide
12-04-2011, 11:30 AM
The songs are humorous and are meant to enjoy. Why exactly are we trying to hold it up to the teeth with historical accuracy?

LightRey
12-04-2011, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Commonality depends on culture, and Leonardo is a possibility, however some other scholar he met along the way is equally as plausible.
Woulda been one helluva scholar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Possibly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well seeing as he had either discovered or documented the concept of gravity before it became a (relatively) famous concept, I'd say he'd have been pretty amazing.

livevil6633
12-04-2011, 12:44 PM
i am far from a history buff but we are arguing about historical facts in a GAME that includes tanks,machines guns,hang gilders, and technology that is from thousands of years ago that is beyond what we have now.

and the fact that we are discussing is a matter of grammatical translation and the only one of the historical issues listed that has an explanation within the game.

LightRey
12-04-2011, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by livevil6633:
i am far from a history buff but we are arguing about historical facts in a GAME that includes tanks,machines guns,hang gilders, and technology that is from thousands of years ago that is beyond what we have now.

and the fact that we are discussing is a matter of grammatical translation and the only one of the historical issues listed that has an explanation within the game.
Thing is that those tanks, machine guns and hang gliders were all actual (and if they had been built, working) machines invented by Leonardo.

Agentbarto
12-04-2011, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Commonality depends on culture, and Leonardo is a possibility, however some other scholar he met along the way is equally as plausible.
Woulda been one helluva scholar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Possibly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well seeing as he had either discovered or documented the concept of gravity before it became a (relatively) famous concept, I'd say he'd have been pretty amazing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well see I get that but I feel like you still place a lot of value in the comparison between what we know for certain, and what we know we can't know for certain at the moment.

I once heard an individual say "an idea is not yours, if you don't write it down." In other words, if we don't document things, the possibility that things still occur without our observation is still quite high, only we don't attribute the "discovery" to the unknown individual. Therefore, innovation is only as amazing as Newton's discovery of calculus. (I use this example as it directly traces my explanation; had he not written down and only discussed it in passing with a colleague, calc. would still be a valid math if discovered by someone else, just not attributed to him if he hadn't publicized it.)

LightRey
12-04-2011, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Well see I get that but I feel like you still place a lot of value in the comparison between what we know for certain, and what we know we can't know for certain at the moment.

I once heard an individual say "an idea is not yours, if you don't write it down." In other words, if we don't document things, the possibility that things still occur without our observation is still quite high, only we don't attribute the "discovery" to the unknown individual. Therefore, innovation is only as amazing as Newton's discovery of calculus. (I use this example as it directly traces my explanation; had he not written down and only discussed it in passing with a colleague, calc. would still be a valid math if discovered by someone else, just not attributed to him if he hadn't publicized it.)
I know, but there really is a lot of source material from those times. It's near impossible for there to have been common words, especially regarding scientific subjects, of which we don't have any evidence.

Remember, this is only 500 years ago and it at he very point in history where science became important and extremely well documented again. For someone to have figured out and popularized the concept of gravity around those times without our knowing is nigh impossible.

Agentbarto
12-04-2011, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Well see I get that but I feel like you still place a lot of value in the comparison between what we know for certain, and what we know we can't know for certain at the moment.

I once heard an individual say "an idea is not yours, if you don't write it down." In other words, if we don't document things, the possibility that things still occur without our observation is still quite high, only we don't attribute the "discovery" to the unknown individual. Therefore, innovation is only as amazing as Newton's discovery of calculus. (I use this example as it directly traces my explanation; had he not written down and only discussed it in passing with a colleague, calc. would still be a valid math if discovered by someone else, just not attributed to him if he hadn't publicized it.)
I know, but there really is a lot of source material from those times. It's near impossible for there to have been common words, especially regarding scientific subjects, of which we don't have any evidence.

Remember, this is only 500 years ago and it at he very point in history where science became important and extremely well documented again. For someone to have figured out and popularized the concept of gravity around those times without our knowing is nigh impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd prefer highly improbable, but yes, I'd agree.

SolidSage
12-04-2011, 01:36 PM
AND, having a concept or an idea AND writing it down, doesn't count for squat if you can't get it published.

Think about the challenge of getting something published in this era, THEN think about how hard it would be in Ezio's time.

If you weren't wealthy, or part of the controlling authorities network, there would be no way to get your stuff out. Especially with Templars controlling everything, it's a guarantee that their guys would be the ones getting the credit for 'discovering' everything regardless of whether it was true or not.

And, the Nazi's didn't invent book burning. Cultural suppression/deletion by elimination of artifacts and records isn't a new idea.

"History is written by the victors".

Agentbarto
12-04-2011, 02:27 PM
True, when I mentioned written down what was meant was a document that is considered truly concrete.

and that's exactly why old, or ancient historical facts are occurrences which, in retrospect, are agreed upon and concluded to be facts simply because they have a lot of support behind them, not necessarily because they occurred as they are documented. Always take it with a grain of salt.

AdmiralPerry
12-04-2011, 05:36 PM
I can't decide if it's a good thing that these games are making us split hairs like this or not. The developers probably knew about it, and decided to take a little creative liberty with it. You can expect a few anachronisms if it will help improve the storyline. I kind of wish they had done the same thing in the Sistine Chapel, but they rendered that one accurately for the year it was portrayed in. Not a big deal. Didn't they also add the fourth minaret to the Hagia Sophia, even though it hadn't been built yet in the early 1500's?

xx-pyro
12-04-2011, 05:47 PM
Seems like just a simple mistake on Ubisofts part, it doesn't have to be explained away. Even if Ezio knew about gravity, the nobles at the party would have shook their heads and said what the hell are you talking about. It's just something they overlooked.

LightRey
12-05-2011, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
True, when I mentioned written down what was meant was a document that is considered truly concrete.

and that's exactly why old, or ancient historical facts are occurrences which, in retrospect, are agreed upon and concluded to be facts simply because they have a lot of support behind them, not necessarily because they occurred as they are documented. Always take it with a grain of salt.
That being the case. This point is not so much based on historical evidence, but rather lack thereof.

MustaviSadi
09-28-2015, 11:28 PM
The earliest evidence for the parachute dates back to the Renaissance period. The oldest parachute design appears in an anonymous manuscript from 1470s Renaissance Italy (British Museum Add. MSS 34,113, fol. 200v), showing a free-hanging man clutching a cross bar frame attached to a conical canopy. As a safety measure, four straps run from the ends of the rods to a waist belt. The design is a marked improvement over another folio (189v), which depicts a man trying to break the force of his fall by the means of two long cloth streamers fastened to two bars which he grips with his hands. Although the surface area of the parachute design appears to be too small to offer effective resistance to the friction of the air and the wooden base-frame is superfluous and potentially harmful, the revolutionary character of the new concept is obvious.

Shortly after, a more sophisticated parachute was sketched by the polymath Leonardo da Vinci in his Codex Atlanticus (fol. 381v) dated to ca. 1485. Here, the scale of the parachute is in a more favorable proportion to the weight of the jumper. Leonardo's canopy was held open by a square wooden frame, which alters the shape of the parachute from conical to pyramidal. It is not known whether the Italian inventor was influenced by the earlier design, but he may have learned about the idea through the intensive oral communication among artist-engineers of the time. The feasibility of Leonardo's pyramidal design was successfully tested in 2000 by Briton Adrian Nicholas and again in 2008 by Luigi Cani. According to the historian of technology Lynn White, these conical and pyramidal designs, much more elaborate than early artistic jumps with rigid parasols in Asia, mark the origin of "the parachute as we know it."

Completely identical to the parachutes in AC Brotherhood and Revelations, don't you think?

ze_topazio
09-28-2015, 11:37 PM
http://i.imgur.com/WSKdtFQ.png

Assassin_M
09-28-2015, 11:47 PM
Oldie is goldie

ze_topazio
09-29-2015, 12:01 AM
So many users that I haven't seen around this parts in forever, even Assassin_M was summoned from his sarcophagus.

LoyalACFan
09-29-2015, 03:36 AM
I'm more interested in how he was singing in Italian, understood by Turks, and rhyming words in English. :rolleyes:


EDIT- wow, holy necro Batman

Aphex_Tim
09-29-2015, 07:04 AM
Characters in AC4 threw the word "sadistic" around before Marquis de Sade was even born. And I'm sure that one and Ezio's gravity song weren't the only historical inconsistencies in the series ;)

VestigialLlama4
09-29-2015, 07:46 AM
Characters in AC4 threw the word "sadistic" around before Marquis de Sade was even born. And I'm sure that one and Ezio's gravity song weren't the only historical inconsistencies in the series ;)

From the very first game, the animus translation generally has modernizations. Lucy said that if Desmond likes they can put in Chaucerian Early English and Pre-Modern French to put across how the Crusaders actually sounded like. In the game the dialogue is French, Arabic and German accented English for main characters, some NPCs in Acre speak in Cockney and you also hear a smattering of French, German, Arabic, Turkish among the guards. Likewise in the Ezio games, they are obviously translating Ezio's Italian Minstrel Songs into English.

That said, the New World games are more iffy since that is supposed to be the real 18th Century English with nautical slang interspersed, so there using anachronism is less justifiable in my view.

pacmanate
09-29-2015, 12:26 PM
So many users that I haven't seen around this parts in forever, even Assassin_M was summoned from his sarcophagus.

This thread is where he lives as not many of us oldies remain.

ze_topazio
09-29-2015, 06:17 PM
^ He came out from the depths after months without posting (not counting that small post in the 3rd party games) just to post in this random thread, it's like one of those really old men who usually are quiet but once in a while rise to rant about how back in his time everything was much better. ;)

Aphex_Tim
09-29-2015, 06:22 PM
^ He came out from the depths after months without posting (not counting that small post in the 3rd party games) just to post in this random thread, it's like one of those really old men who usually are quiet but once in a while rise to rant about how back in his time everything was much better. ;)

I feel more like this thread was his tomb, and necro-ing it has awakened him. By God... what have we done?

I-Like-Pie45
09-29-2015, 06:27 PM
hey assassin m

ezios is the greatest most depth ac character hero

Assassin_M
09-29-2015, 08:49 PM
Dern kids making a ruckus. Keep it dewn, you rotten dern brats, i'm trying to sleep.

I-Like-Pie45
09-30-2015, 01:55 AM
ha ha Skype group told me that i could summon you by saying enzios the bestests and it worked