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Deepcold
03-10-2004, 12:50 PM
Sorry if i'm taking this out of me but, as any Canadians ever saw the movie Arrows Project?? I saw that last night and, what a bunch of loosers we were!!!! Avro Canada create a bomber interceptor twin engines all made in Canada and, the governement destroyed everythings because of the prime minister Diefenbaker. Can you imagine that, he believed the U.S President Eisenhower,talking each others in a fishing boat, that the missiles were better than planes fighters. So, he decide to close the Arrows Project and later, he bought 43 U.S used planes at the cost of close $500 000 000 We would have 143 Arrows at this price. He destroyed one of the best plane and engine in the whole world...what a moron he was!!! I hate TV....that's teaching you the mistakes your country has done.

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Deepcold
03-10-2004, 12:50 PM
Sorry if i'm taking this out of me but, as any Canadians ever saw the movie Arrows Project?? I saw that last night and, what a bunch of loosers we were!!!! Avro Canada create a bomber interceptor twin engines all made in Canada and, the governement destroyed everythings because of the prime minister Diefenbaker. Can you imagine that, he believed the U.S President Eisenhower,talking each others in a fishing boat, that the missiles were better than planes fighters. So, he decide to close the Arrows Project and later, he bought 43 U.S used planes at the cost of close $500 000 000 We would have 143 Arrows at this price. He destroyed one of the best plane and engine in the whole world...what a moron he was!!! I hate TV....that's teaching you the mistakes your country has done.

My specs are:
Intel 2.66 processor
Asus P4S533-X Mobo
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-HH-Dubbo
03-10-2004, 01:00 PM
Ah yes, the AVRO Arrow. Would've been an interesting a/c had it survived the politics...
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/F1000016.JPG
There is no leading cause of death for people aged over 100

blairgowrie
03-10-2004, 01:09 PM
I think most Canadians would agree that the cancellation of the Arrow Interceptor program was a grevious error. Canada wound up with Bomarc missiles that didn't work and a bunch of Voodoo fighters which were greatly inferior to the Arrow. It lost most of it's design engineers and other skilled employees to the US and other countries. Sadly, the Government ordered the complete destruction of all the Arrow prototypes; for what reason, no one understands to this day (I recall it was 5 aircaft). It was by far, the most advanced aircraft in the world at that time.

Yes, indeed a very sad day for Canada.

Here is a link for information on the Avro Arrow

http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/Eng/Collection/sd015e.htm



http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
03-10-2004, 01:40 PM
I think that all analysis in this topic is sound, it is a touch vitriolic.

There were sound reasons to cancel the Arrow. Too expensive for one country and no foreign sales to ofset the cost were likely.

The situation is anlogous to the Israeli Lavi.. anyone remember that plane.

Every plane that flies is there because of politics. Politics does not just kill planes.

MZ6
03-10-2004, 02:52 PM
Remeber that it was a movie and not 100% accurate, although generally true

Deepcold
03-10-2004, 02:58 PM
I don't agree with you Waldo because, the Voodoo transaction has cost aprox $500 000 000 to Canada. Can you imagine how many Arrows we could have built with that money??? The French was ready to by 400 Iroquois engine made by Avro and the prime minister said no because of the image he would have by reversing the decision he made. At the end of the movie, it's says that even the F-18 wasn't close from the Arrows performance!!! As usual, the cream of the country as been recruited by our neighbors.

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jensenpark
03-10-2004, 03:22 PM
Amazing how all these years later we instead are spending billions propping up our aerospace industry by subsidizing Bombardier so they can make regional passenger jets and better snowmobiles...yet couldn't have done the same for the Arrow.

I'm sure the whole story will never be told about the cancellation of the project, but it makes ya' wonder.

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

CDN_Merlin
03-10-2004, 03:25 PM
It's also funny we are spending x millions on subs bought 2nd hand from the UK that are POS. Also, not to mention the heli's that keep falling apart.

I'm sure every country has a bad Gov't that does things like this.

MZ6
03-10-2004, 03:34 PM
As big part of the problem, especially today, it the general Canadian attitude towards the military. Public opinion is almost always against military spending. Then take the case of the 1rst Airborn, which was disbanded because of public reaction to years old hazing vidoes, despite the fact that the 1rst was being reformed at the time with a outstanding new comander. As a country Canada does a piss poor job of supporting its armed forces, financially and emotionally.

I have a friend in the Army, and according to him the Army is it self to blame. By constanty doing the job with less and worse equipment, Ottawa thinks they can do the job with even less next budget.

pudsterIV
03-10-2004, 03:51 PM
I'm sure every country has a bad Gov't that does things like this.[/QUOTE]

How about the govt in my country mate, that country being New Zealand. Couple of years ago they sold our entire strike force! Now we have no fighter protection. Granted we dont have a lot of spare cash and the chances of us using a strike force are slim, but thats what they thought before WW2 to!

blairgowrie
03-10-2004, 03:53 PM
My next door neighbour Jim Floyd (Formerly VP Engineering on the Arrow Project) didn't like the movie either.

No question it was a political decision made by a Tory Government. And I used to be a Tory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

Fennec_P
03-10-2004, 04:43 PM
Its a shame, but I think the Canadian military has redeemed itself with the design of the CF-18 fighter and C-17 rifle.

Deepcold
03-10-2004, 04:48 PM
Blair, did you asked him if the movie was fictive or if the events in it was for reals? Why he didn't liked the movie?

MZ6, i agree with your friend(i use to be a vendouze "22nd Regiment"). that's a shame because we have one of a hell Soldiers in there!!

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H.Keller
03-10-2004, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
Its a shame, but I think the Canadian military has redeemed itself with the design of the CF-18 fighter and C-17 rifle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Design of???

CF-18 is an American McDonell Douglas F-18, and I am guessing that you mean the C-7 rifle which was designed by Armalite, an American company. All we did was stick on a few accessories and call it a C-7.

-----------------------------

Meine Ehre heißt Treue!

blairgowrie
03-10-2004, 05:36 PM
Jim Floyd didn't like the CBC movie on the subject because he felt it did not portray the characters properly or depict the real situation. It was made for television and they tried to over-dramatize the role played by Dan Akroyd, the President of Avro at the time. Jim firmly believed they had a winner in the Arrow and was very bitter about the cancellation. He was originally from England and went back there after the Arrow project was cancelled. After working in the UK for a number of years, he returned to Canada. I had the privilege of shovelling snow from his driveway a couple of times, when he was my neighbour.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

Maple_Tiger
03-10-2004, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
Its a shame, but I think the Canadian military has redeemed itself with the design of the CF-18 fighter and C-17 rifle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


We still have a military?

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pd6c878f0006c224805da6c9645408b41/fb291d3e.jpg

Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

tfu_iain1
03-10-2004, 06:09 PM
hmm, sounds like the British gov when it tried to get rid of the Lightning fighter because 'guided missiles' were the future... and we still have planes.

well, here's hoping total war is a thing of the past. too expensive for no gain, aint economics great?

JG52_wunsch
03-10-2004, 08:36 PM
yeah,its embarassingly bad govt decision,not unlike or govt today.it s sad

HangerQueen
03-10-2004, 08:42 PM
If it makes you feel any better, Deepcold, we Brits went through pretty much the same thing with the TSR2. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"You can try, but it is a difficult and thankless task to compare the combat qualities of aircraft using reference book data. There are simply too many nuances to consider." N. G. Golodnikov

Franzen
03-10-2004, 11:57 PM
Actually Canadians had a similar problem at the beginning of WW2. They had to build warships from British designs that were inferior and outdated. Adding to that, my friend, who served on corvettes, told me they actually first entered service wit wooden guns on the deck. They sailed to England to have the real armorment fitted. Three of his boats were torpedoes but not until after they got the real guns. I even have a picture of him being pulled out of the water. That's the price for not standing up for ourselves. I'm glad the old Canada is gone. BTW, I was born an raised in Canada.

Fritz

Salfordian
03-11-2004, 03:23 AM
TV/movies might not give the whole story (i know that is an obvious point to make). I saw a documentary on the terrible decisions leading to the cancellation of the TSR2 (like ordering the F111 for the RAF) and was totally convinced by the show at how idiotic the govt at the time was. But yesterday John Farley (first guy to fly the harrier) did a talk at our uni and said that the TSR2 (and a number of other cancelled UK projects) were not as good as everyone makes out with flaws in their designs which led to their downfall. With regards to the TSR2 he said the wing was too small so it had poor takeoff and landing performance and was a very poor turner. As it was planned to still be in service now he said it would not be as effective a platform as some of the others which eventually replaced it (like tornado I guess). There may have been something similar with the Arrow (I dont know to much about this plane to be honest).This is a guy I have the upmost respect for and he certainly put a different light on the story and from a professional test pilots point of view.

Salfordian
03-11-2004, 03:25 AM
By the way sorry if anyone feels that I diverted the topic off the Arrow, this wasnt my intention, just thought I'd pass on an old pros view (or the way I interpreted it) on a reason behind a project cancellation. Again, sorry.

Koohullin
03-11-2004, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
Amazing how all these years later we instead are spending billions propping up our aerospace industry by subsidizing Bombardier so they can make regional passenger jets and better snowmobiles...yet couldn't have done the same for the Arrow.

I'm sure the whole story will never be told about the cancellation of the project, but it makes ya' wonder.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


There is one big difference, Bombardier is located in Quebec while AVRO was located in Ontario. When baby cries, baby gets.


The Arrow was not the only grand military wastage of money by the Government. There was an APC design that was almost completed when it was cancelled. The useless trucks can be added. The cancellation of the new helo which is now back on the order books. The Laural and Hardy act has to stop some day soon.

jensenpark
03-11-2004, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
Amazing how all these years later we instead are spending billions propping up our aerospace industry by subsidizing Bombardier so they can make regional passenger jets and better snowmobiles...yet couldn't have done the same for the Arrow.

I'm sure the whole story will never be told about the cancellation of the project, but it makes ya' wonder.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


There is one _big_ difference, Bombardier is located in Quebec while AVRO was located in Ontario. When _baby cries, baby gets_.


The Arrow was not the only grand military wastage of money by the Government. There was an APC design that was almost completed when it was cancelled. The useless trucks can be added. The cancellation of the new helo which is now back on the order books. The Laural and Hardy act has to stop some day soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And of course lets not forget the coming Stryker purchase to replace our Leopards...obsolete and not even ordered yet.

I was going to mention the Quebec bit, but didn't think it was a big as factor in the Dief era...

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

Koohullin
03-11-2004, 04:57 AM
Jenson, what I find so sad is that during the Ice Storm and the Winnipeg Flood it was the military that gave the most "help". The military should stop 'performing' so well with the cruddy equipement they have to use.


Quebec has always been the 'problem child'.

Two books worth reading

Arrow Countdown
Peter Zuuring
ISBN 1-55056-866-3

CORVETTES of the RCN, 1939-1945
Ken Macpherson, Marc Milner
ISBN 0-920277-83-7

[This message was edited by Koohullin on Thu March 11 2004 at 04:25 AM.]

Zayets
03-11-2004, 05:32 AM
"As a Canadian, i'm shock!!!"

Don't want to sound smart arse here , but topic's title is a bit weird. I was assuming,viewing the title , that being a Canadian means being a shock. I was looking for some replies like "I am an ace" and so on , but after browsing through them, realized what you've mean.So,wouldn't supposed to be: "As a Canadian,I'm shocked!" or "As a Canadian,I'm in shock". I'm not a native English speaker , is for that I'm trying to understand.

Zayets out
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Deepcold
03-11-2004, 05:50 AM
Sorry about the title Zayets, i'm a french Canadian from Quebec and i'm trying to do my best to translate what i want to say. Sometimes, it's harder. Koohullin, as i said, i'm from Quebec and, i must agree with you that, the province i live in, could have tried to integrated the country by learning english and, by stopping to think that we're better than the rest of the Canada(refering to the stupid separation referendum question)but, it is like it is and, i really doubt that it's gonna change sometimes. One thing is sure...my son and the other one who's coming will learn to respect their country and i will make sure that they will be bilinguals(not sure how to wrote this). Anyway, i never thought that, this topic would be 2 pages long LOL Have a great one guys.

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Zayets
03-11-2004, 05:58 AM
Where in Quebec my friend? I've lived for about 2 years in Quebec , Montreal , and some 6 months in St. Georges , Beauce http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Small little funky town http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out
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LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 06:07 AM
As USA TV Viewer, I'm in shock.

GUILTY --&gt; http://www.glitterrock.org/lexcaps05/dasistguteh.jpg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
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Beirut
03-11-2004, 06:13 AM
Hey there Les boys,

Je suis dans les montagnes des laurentides. A small town, half English-half french. And I think I'm the only guy here who plays IL2.

Dief was a dork!

"Official Lancaster whiner"

Koohullin
03-11-2004, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deepcold:
Sorry about the title Zayets, i'm a french Canadian from Quebec and i'm trying to do my best to translate what i want to say. Sometimes, it's harder. Koohullin, as i said, i'm from Quebec and, i must agree with you that, the province i live in, could have tried to integrated the country by learning english and, by stopping to think that we're better than the rest of the Canada(refering to the stupid separation referendum question)but, it is like it is and, i really doubt that it's gonna change sometimes. One thing is sure...my son and the other one who's coming will learn to respect their country and i will make sure that they will be bilinguals(not sure how to wrote this). Anyway, i never thought that, this topic would be 2 pages long LOL Have a great one guys.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What the Nazi seperatists forget is that Quebec is not just French in the early days. English, but mostly Scottish and Irish made up alot of the population. The North Shore east of Quebec City was developed by Scottish soldiers who Britian did not want to return to the UK after the defeat on the Plains of Abraham. The upper Ottawa valley and the Gatineau were Irish and Scot settled. Yet the language Gestapo are out in force destroying English heritage in Quebec, while les Seperatists are crying about the demise of habitant culture. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Zayets
03-11-2004, 06:27 AM
As a good friend from Quebec(born Scot,live in Toronto for almost all his life and married a quebecoise) used to say:

INCOMING!

Very sensible subject , Quebec separation. I was living there and still don't understand 100% the whole story. All I know is that both sides are pi$$ed about it. No need to talk about it here I believe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out
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Deepcold
03-11-2004, 07:09 AM
I live in St-Nicolas...that's the first town south west of the Laporte bridge.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Where in Quebec my friend? I've lived for about 2 years in Quebec , Montreal , and some 6 months in St. Georges , Beauce http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Small little funky town http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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CDN_Merlin
03-11-2004, 07:19 AM
I was born and raised in Montreal and left in 92 becuse I got tired of the cry babies the french were. Don't get me wrong, I'm 1/2 french and can speak it well but the frenchies just cry about everything and disrespect you if they can tell you are part english.

I miss Montreal terribly because Ottawa is such a boring and politically filled BS town.

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C&C Generals, Independance War 2,Starfleet Command 2,Settlers IV,Tzar,Allegiance,Starfleet Command,MAX 2,Defiance

Koohullin
03-11-2004, 07:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CDN_Merlin:
I was born and raised in Montreal and left in 92 becuse I got tired of the cry babies the french were. Don't get me wrong, I'm 1/2 french and can speak it well but the frenchies just cry about everything and disrespect you if they can tell you are part english.

I miss Montreal terribly because Ottawa is such a boring and politically filled BS town.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and many 10s of 1000s others. Quebec's loss, the rest of Canada's gain.

All that hot air, does help to moderate the temperature. It is good that the MPs leave for the summer.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Franzen
03-11-2004, 12:27 PM
Canada's problem is simply ignorance. Not meant as an insult but as a condition of knowledge about cultures. The French are there and part of our country. It's important that we get to know each other. The separatists only number in the few but they feed off this ignorance. It's also important that the French get to know the English. In a sense, Canada is already separated and needs to be united. This can only be done by a more open cultural exchange and education. As an English speaking Canuck I want our French brothers to remain in our family. We should be one country, one nation.

Fritz

Deepcold
03-11-2004, 01:17 PM
I will vote for you Franzen if you ever think to become Prime Minister http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif no kidding bro, you just said exactly what i'm thinking.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Canada's problem is simply ignorance. Not meant as an insult but as a condition of knowledge about cultures. The French are there and part of our country. It's important that we get to know each other. The separatists only number in the few but they feed off this ignorance. It's also important that the French get to know the English. In a sense, Canada is already separated and needs to be united. This can only be done by a more open cultural exchange and education. As an English speaking Canuck I want our French brothers to remain in our family. We should be one country, one nation.

Fritz<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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CRSutton
03-11-2004, 04:28 PM
Why would Canada want to piss away so much money on any weapons? Jesus, does anybody really have a bone to pick with Canada? Pretty nice people up there. Really!

jensenpark
03-11-2004, 05:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CRSutton:
Why would Canada want to piss away so much money on any weapons? Jesus, does anybody really have a bone to pick with Canada? Pretty nice people up there. Really!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is we can't hold our weight on the international scene...nor help our allies or help out in humanitarian area...Haiti for example...we're sending 400 soldiers and this mission has cleared out a whole base of soldiers, and had to borrow from another.

I think we have an effective force of less than 5000 actual soldiers under arms...tons of generals and office staff though of course...

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

Franzen
03-11-2004, 08:48 PM
Here's an idea http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif. We tax all "Tim Horton"(Canadian Coffee Shop Chain)products by 0.5% and draft all their staff into the military and begin retraining them. Within a year we would have the largest army ever seen in the history of mankind. We could conquer other nations(of course in a friendly and diplomatic way)and build the Canadian Empire so vast it would make the Roman empire look like Rhode Island! Imagine the maple leave in all corners of the world! We could have RCMP stationed all over the globe. No elderly person would ever cross a street alone again. Oh Canada! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Just one problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif; who will make the coffee? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif It could actually cause the collapse of Canadian society within a month. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I've been living abroad for 4 years and what I miss most is the coffee and donuts. The psycological effect has been devastating.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Fritz http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

VW-IceFire
03-11-2004, 09:02 PM
Nobody really has a bone to pick with us. Not too many anyways. We're got a pretty good international image if not one of influence these days.

Our military has seen better days...I hope that changes sometime. Kofi Annan was at Parliament a few days ago to request that Canada beef up its military so it can help out more in the trouble spots around the world. We're decent at peacekeeping and I think most of the Canadian military should be revamped to be fast, efficient, and effective at moving people, supplies, and defensive firepower when required.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Kofi Annan was at Parliament a few days ago to request that Canada beef up its military<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Fascinating

__________________
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Franzen
03-12-2004, 12:08 AM
I agree with kofi Annan. What would we do if we got another big snowstorm? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Fritz

eiffel68
03-12-2004, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:


What the Nazi seperatists forget is that Quebec is not just French in the early days. English, but mostly Scottish and Irish made up alot of the population. The North Shore east of Quebec City was developed by Scottish soldiers who Britian did not want to return to the UK after the defeat on the Plains of Abraham. The upper Ottawa valley and the Gatineau were Irish and Scot settled. Yet the language Gestapo are out in force destroying English heritage in Quebec, while les Seperatists are crying about the demise of habitant culture. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1)The real PITA of this country are people like you who share this same anti-french attitude which is also racism.

2)The Anglo-canadians have no lessons to teach us,Québécois, about human or civil rights: the deportation of Acadians, the execution of Louis Riel, the general policy toward the Amerindians, October 1970 crisis, the harsh assimilation of the french-canadians in some provinces, the concentration camps for foreigners in both World Wars, etc.

3)You should thank Bombardier because theirs owners has threatened their employees of job losses if they voted for the Yes at the last referendum.

4) People like you (or Hyside)is not an incentive for people like me to share with them the same nationality or the same country.

5) Some French-Canadians have a kind attitude toward those Anglos, mostly of Loyalist origins, which have usually despised the French presence in Canada for centuries, I just don't share that attitude.

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/antn45.jpg

ShVAK
03-12-2004, 08:13 AM
Canada has been a world-leader in the peace-keeping role for many years now. On average, an unprecedented 10% of the Canadian Forces are constantly deployed on peace-keeping missions somewhere in the world.


"If you want full realism, join the military!"

Agamemnon22
03-12-2004, 08:21 AM
2)The Anglo-canadians have no lessons to teach us,Québécois, about human or civil rights: the deportation of Acadians, the execution of Louis Riel, the general policy toward the Amerindians, October 1970 crisis, the harsh assimilation of the french-canadians in some provinces, the concentration camps for foreigners in both World Wars, etc.

ok and this has what to do with what exactly? Is it like that now? Do you feel threatened by Anglo-canadians?



5) Some French-Canadians have a kind attitude toward those Anglos, mostly of Loyalist origins, which have usually despised the French presence in Canada for centuries, I just don't share that attitude.


Eiffel68: with comments like that you are the LAST person to lecture anyone on discrimination.

I live in Montreal, I go to school downtown everyday. I see french people, english people, americans, african canadians, people from EVERYWHERE. But I don't really care where they're from or what... they're just people, u get along. I'm not out to destroy the french or anyone else! I just happen to live here and love it, get over it and do the same...

[This message was edited by Agamemnon22 on Fri March 12 2004 at 07:30 AM.]

dragonhart38
03-12-2004, 09:30 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by blairgowrie:
My next door neighbour Jim Floyd (Formerly VP Engineering on the Arrow Project) didn't like the movie either.

No question it was a political decision made by a Tory Government. And I used to be a Tory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Tory's haven't done anything for Canada. They nearly ruined canada financially when Mulroney was in govt. Many people tend to point to those years as examples of Tory mis management of government but we should not forget what they did to the Arrow. A high altitude interceptor that was fully a generation or 2 ahead of it's time in its technology and performance. The concorde owes a lot to this aircraft as some of the design techniques used on the concorde we taken from the Arrow.

http://www.elleemmeshop.com/model1/Hann_a/eduard/EDK4827.jpg
The best of the best

Koohullin
03-12-2004, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eiffel68:

1)The real PITA of this country are people like you who share this same anti-french attitude which is also racism.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anti French, not at all. Just don't like the Seperatist hypoctites.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

2)The Anglo-canadians have no lessons to teach us,Québécois, about human or civil rights: the deportation of Acadians, the execution of Louis Riel, the general policy toward the Amerindians, October 1970 crisis, the harsh assimilation of the french-canadians in some provinces, the concentration camps for foreigners in both World Wars, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying les Quebecois are too stupid to learn from past errors? Sure looks that way.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Oct 70 Crisis. early El Qadah style terrorists.

Every province has bi-lingual equal rights except Quebec.

The lack of French Quebecers in the the armed forces in WW1 and WW2 to help free their heritage country, France.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

3)You should thank Bombardier because theirs owners has threatened their employees of job losses if they voted for the Yes at the last referendum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well what would you expect? Bombardier would loose its pipeline of money from the Feds.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
4) People like you (or Hyside)is not an incentive for people like me to share with them the same nationality or the same country.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I see someone bi***en about losing their heritage and then turn around and see them doing the same thing in a country that is officially bi-lingual, I call them hypocrites and Gestapo. If Quebac wants to build there own ghetto fine, their loss.

If they ever do seperate, all they will be is a fraction of their current size and will soon become a third world nation requiring foreign aid. First of all they will only be enetitled to, is the area as of Confederation. If Quebec can seperate from Canada, then areas of Quebec can seperate from Quebec and re-join Canada. If you say no, then they are no better than the Nazis.?


@ dragonhart38. Canada had no national debt until the dictator Finger PET came along.

eiffel68
03-12-2004, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
_
2)The Anglo-canadians have no lessons to teach us,Québécois, about human or civil rights: the deportation of Acadians, the execution of Louis Riel, the general policy toward the Amerindians, October 1970 crisis, the harsh assimilation of the french-canadians in some provinces, the concentration camps for foreigners in both World Wars, etc._

ok and this has what to do with what exactly? Is it like that now? Do you feel threatened by Anglo-canadians?

&gt;No, but some Anglo-Canadians seem threatened by our French culture as soon as it's perceived to be more than a national curiosity to amuse the crowd.



5) Some French-Canadians have a kind attitude toward those Anglos, mostly of Loyalist origins, which have usually despised the French presence in Canada for centuries, I just don't share that attitude.


Eiffel68: with comments like that you are the LAST person to lecture anyone on discrimination.

I live in Montreal, I go to school downtown everyday. I see french people, english people, americans, african canadians, people from EVERYWHERE. But I don't really care where they're from or what... they're just people, u get along. I'm not out to destroy the french or anyone else! I just happen to live here and love it, get over it and do the same...

&gt;I don't see your point because I do respect any people from any origin IF they respect me, my culture and my language likewise.

&gt;But I don't respect people who have lived in Quebec for many generations and show disdain to speak French, I don't respect those who move here and refuse to learn the language of the majority (something usually accepted as normal everywhere around the world but some Anglo-Canadians think that should be denied to Quebec)and finally I don't respect those who simply refuse to recognize le fait français en Amérique du Nord.



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/antn45.jpg

[This message was edited by eiffel68 on Fri March 12 2004 at 09:29 AM.]

[This message was edited by eiffel68 on Fri March 12 2004 at 12:15 PM.]

CRSutton
03-12-2004, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CRSutton:
Why would Canada want to piss away so much money on any weapons? Jesus, does anybody really have a bone to pick with Canada? Pretty nice people up there. Really!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is we can't hold our weight on the international scene...nor help our allies or help out in humanitarian area...Haiti for example...we're sending 400 soldiers and this mission has cleared out a whole base of soldiers, and had to borrow from another.

I think we have an effective force of less than 5000 actual soldiers under arms...tons of generals and office staff though of course...

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, I did not realize the total was so small.

jensenpark
03-12-2004, 12:39 PM
we now have a few of the remotely piloted drones...

If we could just get a few Mistels to attach, we could actually be a power again!

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

eiffel68
03-12-2004, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:


Oct 70 Crisis. early El Qadah style terrorists.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Comparing amateurish FLQ to Al-Qaida is pretty insulting for every US, UK and NATO(including Canada) soldiers fighting the latter in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

How many people have died in 1970? Only one?

One victim and even that one could have been averted without War measures.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Every province has bi-lingual equal rights _except_ Quebec.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the Federal government is officially bilingual but apart New Bunswick which are the others provinces, I'm curious?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The lack of French Quebecers in the the armed forces in WW1 and WW2 to help free their heritage country, France.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you have official numbers to support your assertion?

Many French-Canadians were volunteers to those wars and they have paid the price but the Province of Quebec was against conscription which in the end has been a useless measure for the war effort of Canada.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When I see someone bi***en about losing their heritage and then turn around and see them doing the same thing in a country that is _officially_ bi-lingual, I call them hypocrites and Gestapo. If Quebac wants to build there own ghetto fine, their loss.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You show your ignorance when you say that only the Parti Québécois is behind the Loi 101 and the Charte de la langue française because all the major political parties of Quebec support them.We have a political consensus on this issue.

So, when you qualify the proponents of these policies of nazis you include nearly all the Québécois, I can only maintain that you're racist and/or hypocrite.

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/antn45.jpg

jensenpark
03-12-2004, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Here's an idea http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif. We tax all "Tim Horton"(Canadian Coffee Shop Chain)products by 0.5% and draft all their staff into the military and begin retraining them. Within a year we would have the largest army ever seen in the history of mankind. We could conquer other nations(of course in a friendly and diplomatic way)and build the Canadian Empire so vast it would make the Roman empire look like Rhode Island! Imagine the maple leave in all corners of the world! We could have RCMP stationed all over the globe. No elderly person would ever cross a street alone again. Oh Canada! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Just one problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif; who will make the coffee? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif It could actually cause the collapse of Canadian society within a month. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I've been living abroad for 4 years and what I miss most is the coffee and donuts. The psycological effect has been devastating.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Fritz http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Franzen: good idea, but I think the Tim Horton people thought of it first...and are busy assimilating Canada first...

Andy Tim's no longer bakes them fresh in the store. Made frozen and heated up in the stores now...very bad.

Wait till you try a Krispy Kreme...worth moving back to North America for.

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

Franzen
03-12-2004, 09:47 PM
Resistence is futile, you will be assimilated. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Just calling the airlines now.

Fritz

Archangel2980
03-12-2004, 09:58 PM
It's simple Canada has a liberal government so there goes your military.