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lechiffre
02-18-2006, 12:46 PM
Had an idea the other day while trying to keep tabs on my leader, who was partially obscured by the canopy frame. It's not such a big deal after a while but it struck me that maybe RL pilots didn't have this problem, because they benefit from having two points of view.
If I hold up a pen or somesuch at arms length I can see past or 'through'it because of stereoscopic vision. By the same token maybe a RL pilot'd have an unobstructed view of the outside.
I've never been lucky enough to sit in one of these birds, far less go up in 'em, so I don't know just how far my theory stacks up (and incidentally I don't know if I'm not the first to think of this, so I hope no-one'll rag me if it's old hat!) but it seems reasonable.
I don't know if it'd look all that cool in a sim, but it'd certainly make a big difference to visibility. Its enough that you can't move your head from side to side. Then again we're all in the same boat (should that be plane?)and its not as if its life or death............

lechiffre
02-18-2006, 12:46 PM
Had an idea the other day while trying to keep tabs on my leader, who was partially obscured by the canopy frame. It's not such a big deal after a while but it struck me that maybe RL pilots didn't have this problem, because they benefit from having two points of view.
If I hold up a pen or somesuch at arms length I can see past or 'through'it because of stereoscopic vision. By the same token maybe a RL pilot'd have an unobstructed view of the outside.
I've never been lucky enough to sit in one of these birds, far less go up in 'em, so I don't know just how far my theory stacks up (and incidentally I don't know if I'm not the first to think of this, so I hope no-one'll rag me if it's old hat!) but it seems reasonable.
I don't know if it'd look all that cool in a sim, but it'd certainly make a big difference to visibility. Its enough that you can't move your head from side to side. Then again we're all in the same boat (should that be plane?)and its not as if its life or death............

Capt_Haddock
02-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Yes, this was discussed a couple of years ago (about the FW 190 top bar) but it's still an interesting question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Apart of the obvious solution of seeing the game through 3D glases, there could be 2 alternatives:

1- TrackIR with 6 degrees of freedom
This needs fully-3D cockpits (unfortunately not present in IL2) but it already works in games like FS2004 and Aces High 2, and will be supported by BoB and the next WWI game. You can check this video from Black Shark to see what an elegant solution to the problem TrackIR is:
http://media.naturalpoint.com/video/games/LockOn-BlackShark-6DOF-Demo.wmv

2- Depth of field
A visual effect that could work for everyone, not just TrackIR users. It would reflect what happens in real life when we focus in a distant object: the cockpit frames would look blury and semi-transparent. Here's an actual picture from a P-40. Notice how the iron gunsight is completely semi-transparent.
http://www.tigersflying.com/gallery/cockpitview.jpg

The problem with depth of field is how to tell the game when to focus on the instruments and when to focus on the external view. Button press? camera position?

IMHO TrackIR + 6DOF is the way forward. Not only it allows you to see around the cockpit frames, but it also gives you complete freedom of movement: get closer to the gunsight, look around the seat, pop your head out of the cockpit when taxiing... Anything http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

lechiffre
02-18-2006, 04:05 PM
Fantastic piece of footage Capt_Haddock http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif I'd no idea things had progressed as far as that. I half thought that any practical solution would look inelegant and as you pointed out might be awkward to implement , there being already commands for gunsight zoom and gunsight toggle.

I definitely agree about the track IR method, 'specially now I've seen what it can do. Although its going to mean yet more expenditure to make the most of a thirty quid title, it'd do wonders for believability and just be a buzz generally.As soon as I'm a bit more solvent I'm going to go that road myself.

I'm hugely impressed with this sim as it is though I'm still at the apprentice stage and I think its going to take a long while for the novelty to wear off (I hope it never does!) Anything they do that improves on an already great title's fine by me, though its mainly icing on the cake now I think.

ZG77_Lignite
02-18-2006, 04:10 PM
And, imho, TrackIR need not be Required; the 6 degrees of freedom could be accomplished with mouse and keyboard for non-TIR owners. Certainly a TIR type unit is much more elegant and immersive than a mouse and keyboard, but then again so is a joystick over the arrow keys.

zaelu
02-18-2006, 05:31 PM
After 6DOF will apear in BoB maybe the zoom function will finaly do what it was supose to do in the first place... moving the focus point forward and backward.
In this way we can lean ahead using 6D0F but we can "zoom" our focal point of view with two buttons on the stick so the "dept of field" effect could be implemented in the game quite nice.