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Jex_TE
09-16-2008, 02:11 PM
Being new to online play but reading a lot on these froums recently, I was trying out a 109 and read it's best performance was 3-5000m. I was also going to try boom and zoom on AC below me but when I got up there, I couldn't see anything below me. Everynow and then I'd see gunfire but even on full zoom I couldn't see the aircraft.

I do have my view distance set to medium but my PC is old and warty now. How do I b and z when I can't even see the enemy lol?

Can anyone give any tips?

Thanks,

Col.BBQ
09-16-2008, 02:50 PM
What I do is fly above 6000 meters in the P-51 and if I see that the skies are clear, I zoom down and scan for a few minutes before zooming back up.

DKoor
09-16-2008, 02:53 PM
The no.1 frustration in this regard is when you spot bandit from 2km or so, then when you come close to a few hundred meters he "disappears". And of course I can spot bandit easier from several km away then if he is under 1km distance.

TinyTim
09-16-2008, 03:27 PM
Another lesson I guess we all had to learn was finding out that the "bogey" you dived on from several kilometers and wasted a lot of your E for was infact your own shadow.

rnzoli
09-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Nothing wastes more kinetic energy than the subsequent collision with your own shadow on winter maps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

I have got similar problems, sometimes I have huge problem seeing planes in my own general area (modest nVidia 6600GT with 25-30 FPS). What helps is actually "knowing" where to look and looking in that area for a longer time, min. 5-10 seconds. Once you see a dot, make sure to take a mental note of the nearest landmarks and its general direction. Makes wonders for the quick re-acquisition, when it blends in temporarily.

I think the camo paintings worked well in RL too, but what we miss is the shine off the metal and glass parts in the distance.

general_kalle
09-16-2008, 03:57 PM
or when you get up high ready for the war and everybody is flying around at >500M.
when you dive on them you either loose track of them, they get shot down before you reach them or you overspeed and have to pull up before getting to them

or you shoot your own shadow...
to make sure im not mistaking an enemy for my shadow i usually do a roll..if the plane rolls syncronized its my shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Billy_DeLyon
09-16-2008, 04:31 PM
What screen res are you using, Jex? My monitor has a native res of 1600x1200 but I set 1152x864 for IL2 (I read somewhere that that's the res Oleg designed it for). This makes the pixels a little bigger = dots for distant planes are more visible.

Crash_Moses
09-16-2008, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
Another lesson I guess we all had to learn was finding out that the "bogey" you dived on from several kilometers and wasted a lot of your E for was infact your own shadow.

Or a speck of dust on your monitor... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

DKoor
09-16-2008, 05:00 PM
Better LoD for SoW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Stingray333
09-16-2008, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Jex_TE:
Being new to online play but reading a lot on these froums recently, I was trying out a 109 and read it's best performance was 3-5000m. I was also going to try boom and zoom on AC below me but when I got up there, I couldn't see anything below me. Everynow and then I'd see gunfire but even on full zoom I couldn't see the aircraft.

I do have my view distance set to medium but my PC is old and warty now. How do I b and z when I can't even see the enemy lol?

Can anyone give any tips?

Thanks,

I don't think that changing the view distance will help you view aircraft from further away, I think it has more to do with how far away you can see mountains, trees, water, buildings, etc. The reason being that the aircraft get too small to be represented by anything less than a few dots much quicker than larger objects like buildings (but could stand corrected on this if someone knows for sure)

The height you fly for boom and zoom is more connected with the height of your targets, rather than the optimal flying height of your aircraft. If your targets are dog fighting at 100-500 meters altitude, if you are several kilometers above them, you will first of all not be able to see them, and second of all, after shedding that much altitude you will be going way too fast and will have a difficult time making the shot.

I am sure we can argue till were blue in the face on this forum as to the "optimal" height for boom-n-zoom tactics, so experiment and find what you like. For me, I like 500-800m above the targets. Any closer and its too easy for them to fly up and meet you, and any further and you pick up too much speed in the dive and the controls can lose responsiveness, and sighting your target is difficult.

Your right though, often you will see tracers but no planes. The planes are just too far away to make out,so, when you see the tracers, maintain your altitude and fly to that general area keeping your eyes open and scanning around. If you don't see anything and your at 5000m or above the ground there is a good chance that you are simply too far above the action to make it out, so drop some altitude and keep circling looking for tracers, eventually you will start to see some planes, then go for the boom and zoom.

Viewing at large distances is a limitation of playing flight simulators. Some argue that playing with icons on (the text labels above the planes) is, in a sense, more realistic, as it helps to overcome the limitations of the limited viewing resolution on a computers screen.

Stingray

julian265
09-16-2008, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
Nothing wastes more kinetic energy than the subsequent collision with your own shadow on winter maps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

I have got similar problems, sometimes I have huge problem seeing planes in my own general area (modest nVidia 6600GT with 25-30 FPS). What helps is actually "knowing" where to look and looking in that area for a longer time, min. 5-10 seconds. Once you see a dot, make sure to take a mental note of the nearest landmarks and its general direction. Makes wonders for the quick re-acquisition, when it blends in temporarily.

I think the camo paintings worked well in RL too, but what we miss is the shine off the metal and glass parts in the distance.

I just upgraded my computer from an amd 3000+/6600GT to an E8400/4870 (on the same LCD), which runs perfectly smoothly at full settings. A few hours spent flying on the new computer have made me think that dots are easier to see with full settings, unfortunately. It may also be a nvidia/ATI thing. Dots are shown with higher contrast to their background than I remember, and I don't think I lose sight of so many now.

WTE_Galway
09-16-2008, 08:32 PM
Oddly you often see distant aircraft better at lower resolutions.

As for shooting your shadow, it was actually used as a deflection shooting training technique by RAAF P40 pilots in the African campaign.

I believe it was first developed by Squadron Leader Clive Caldwell (RAAF 28 kills) and was then adopted as a standard training technique.

buzzsaw1939
09-16-2008, 09:44 PM
I knew that.....ya,.. I was training! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

julian265
09-17-2008, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Oddly you often see distant aircraft better at lower resolutions.

As for shooting your shadow, it was actually used as a deflection shooting training technique by RAAF P40 pilots in the African campaign.

I believe it was first developed by Squadron Leader Clive Caldwell (RAAF 28 kills) and was then adopted as a standard training technique.

Wow, I bet they lost a few pilots doing that!

I'm using the same 1440*900 resolution as before the hardware upgrade. I've tried 1024*768 on another monitor and I couldn't stand it!

For the OP: IL2 draws other aircraft that are too far away to see details of, as four pixel square dots - the lower two are dark grey, the upper two light grey. When you have a monitor that has small pixels (usually the modern high res ones), it becomes harder to spot the dots. You can make the dots larger by lowering your screens resolution, but I don't find this helpful at all on an LCD.

HOWEVER - whilst saying that high resolution makes it harder to see dots is true for similarly sized monitors, it's the size of the pixels (dot pitch), and your distance to the monitor that matters. For differently sized monitors displaying the same resolution, dots will be easier to spot on the larger monitor.

Also - far dots are often much easier to see when you're zoomed out, ie at wide angle view.

P.FunkAdelic
09-17-2008, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Oddly you often see distant aircraft better at lower resolutions.
Its not odd at all. Smaller resolution means fewer pixels means fewer colours to blend the dot so the dot starts to show more contrast and to bulge because the lower resolution can't represent fully the fade into the background effect of real life.

@Stingray
"Some argue that playing with icons on (the text labels above the planes) is, in a sense, more realistic, as it helps to overcome the limitations of the limited viewing resolution on a computers screen."

I'd agree. Hyper purists often miss the fact that we lose so many cues from not being physically affected by the actual events we're recreating on the machine. Thats where HUDS come from and macros and so on.

Until we see the holodeck we'll need some kind of compromise to be able to get the full abilities of our digital selves. Anyone that doesn't realize this must enjoy needing to do way more concentrating than anyone did in real life to get the same effect.

Erkki_M
09-17-2008, 04:39 AM
Thats exactly why we have the "dots" anyway - to counter the size of the screen. Thats also why some people lose the sight of planes as they get closer.

Remember that you cant zoom in real world. So better have the icons OFF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Von_Rat
09-17-2008, 05:07 AM
what you are calling zoom is actually what the eye would see irl.

the other views are zoomed out, so to speak.

the zoomed out views are only there to give you a wider view, because a monitor is so restrictive.

in other words in this game, theres no such thing as zooming in.

Von_Rat
09-17-2008, 05:20 AM
oh i cant see planes below me either.
i'll be looking right at them and as they pass close beneath me they disappear.

i really hope bob is differant because if its the same i'll probaly give it a pass. why waste money on a game thats has totally unrealistic with dots that disappear as they get closer. its ridicolous.

i have a expensive nec monitor that i have run at stupidly low res just to hope to see the dots.

i think that people with cheap monitors can actually spot dots easier in this game.

LEXX_Luthor
09-17-2008, 05:22 AM
If Oleg and other developers someday get their toys together, they might figure it all out (but not today)...

Dots = Icons


Dots and icons are ultimately the same thing. Text Icons can give extra "information" like aircraft type, colour coded friend/enemy, numerical distance, pilot name, etc...

Whereas the Dot "icon" should be displayed corresponding to aircraft size, distance, zoom, relative position to the sun, general enviroment lighting, cammo the aircraft is defined to have relative to position, and aircraft above/below cloud layer, etc...

Skoshi Tiger
09-17-2008, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by julian265:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
As for shooting your shadow, it was actually used as a deflection shooting training technique by RAAF P40 pilots in the African campaign.

I believe it was first developed by Squadron Leader Clive Caldwell (RAAF 28 kills) and was then adopted as a standard training technique.

Wow, I bet they lost a few pilots doing that!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not as many as going into combat in an unfamiliar type with pilots with limited aerial gunnery training and combat experience.

[QUOTE]
Caldwell had flown about 40 operational sorties, but had only one confirmed kill - a Bf 109. He was perplexed by the fact that he had trouble scoring hits on enemy aircraft. Whilst returning to base one day, he noted his squadron's aircraft casting shadows on the desert below. He fired a burst of his guns and noted the fall of shot relative to his shadow. He realised this method allowed for the assessment of required deflection to hit moving targets. Further experimentation lead him to acquire the knowledge to assess deflection needed for a range of speeds. Within a couple of weeks he had attained four further kills and a half share. Caldwell's method of "shadow shooting" became a standard method of gunnery practice in the Middle East.
[\QUOTE]
http://www.wrcs.org.au/articles/62.htm

Caldwell went on to being the RAAF leading Ace.

Stingray333
09-17-2008, 07:13 AM
I can see the dots just fine on 1920x1200 resolution and a 24" LCD.. much better than 1280x1024 resolution, for me anyways

As for dots simply "disappearing" as you get closer... I've never experienced this. Once I see them, I can see them continuously until they fill my sights. However, if I take my eyes off them for one second, it is pretty easy to lose them, takes concentration, and estimating where they will be when your eyes get back on them, especially if they happen to move into a blind spot below your nose, or at your low-6 o'clock

Stingray

LEXX_Luthor
09-17-2008, 09:50 AM
That's why dots should be configurable for each player, or for a server.

With Pacific Fighters and FB Patch 3.0 with easily configurable dots, No-Icon servers flowered by the hundreds. Then apparently the anonymous public dogfight server segment cried "cheat" and pushed Oleg to cripple the mp_dotrange control in 3.01 -- very similar to what happened in Oleg's earlier crippling of trim controls. For whatever reason that happened, the No-Icon servers wilted soon after 3.01. As somebody noticed back during the Dot Wars, 3.01 was the fastest releaced Patch in IL-2 hystery.

M_Gunz
09-17-2008, 10:31 AM
It's a shame that stealth by LOD's was never called cheat because those might have been fixed.

Apparently planes are supposed to vanish while you have them in sight. It's the biggest sim
killer for me. I get to range and the Romulan Cloaking Device turns on.

At 1024x768x32bpp ---- 400-500m and poof! Even with icons there's no way to see him bank, no
way to predict where he's going.

Of course the AI has no such problem.

Stingray333
09-17-2008, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
It's a shame that stealth by LOD's was never called cheat because those might have been fixed.

Apparently planes are supposed to vanish while you have them in sight. It's the biggest sim
killer for me. I get to range and the Romulan Cloaking Device turns on.

At 1024x768x32bpp ---- 400-500m and poof! Even with icons there's no way to see him bank, no
way to predict where he's going.

Of course the AI has no such problem.

Hm... I have never experienced this, seems that once I see them they stay in sight, I'll have to investigate this closer

Stingray

Jex_TE
09-17-2008, 12:21 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm running a 19" CRT at 1024 as my rig is pretty old but I do also have the problem of disappearing planes.

I am probably too high above the fight so I'll try high first and then work my way down on 500 ft increments.

Another question for B n Z - would you set your convergence further out for this tactics and closer in for turning? I currently have mine set to 300m

Thanks Again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Buzzsaw-
09-17-2008, 01:12 PM
Salute

Its a myth that to be successful in B&Z you need to be WAY up above your target.

You only need about 1000 meters to give you enough of an advantage.

In my experience, you get the most success when you attack targets which are between 1000-3000 meters below you. At that distance, you should not have any problem in spotting them.

The danger of course, is when you get too low, and another enemy aircraft comes in above you. Then you can be caught by a better turning aircraft, which has the advantage of speed and energy from its altitude.

It's continual case of balancing the altitude you need for safety, with the altitude you need to be able to spot your targets and have sufficient 'e' to engage them successfully.

DKoor
09-17-2008, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
It's a shame that stealth by LOD's was never called cheat because those might have been fixed.

Apparently planes are supposed to vanish while you have them in sight. It's the biggest sim
killer for me. I get to range and the Romulan Cloaking Device turns on.

At 1024x768x32bpp ---- 400-500m and poof! Even with icons there's no way to see him bank, no
way to predict where he's going.

Of course the AI has no such problem. +1

When you are in hi speed dive (over 600kph) of course if you do not track the bandit/boogie for more than few moments he will disappear, if he spotted you then he will sure escape split S or whatever... such scenario (unable to track for a few sec due to LoD change) happened to me more often than not.

WTE_Galway
09-17-2008, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Its a myth that to be successful in B&Z you need to be WAY up above your target.



Are you saying my awesome mach 0.8 vulching runs from 35,000 feet at planes still on the runway are unnecessary ?

M_Gunz
09-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Stingray333:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
It's a shame that stealth by LOD's was never called cheat because those might have been fixed.

Apparently planes are supposed to vanish while you have them in sight. It's the biggest sim
killer for me. I get to range and the Romulan Cloaking Device turns on.

At 1024x768x32bpp ---- 400-500m and poof! Even with icons there's no way to see him bank, no
way to predict where he's going.

Of course the AI has no such problem.

Hm... I have never experienced this, seems that once I see them they stay in sight, I'll have to investigate this closer

Stingray </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people have it and some don't, it depends on videocard, settings, target plane and background
with the worst being trees. I've never had it happen with a plane above me hence I'd rather
dive below and hit on the way up if there's any doubt.

Buzzsaw-
09-17-2008, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Its a myth that to be successful in B&Z you need to be WAY up above your target.



Are you saying my awesome mach 0.8 vulching runs from 35,000 feet at planes still on the runway are unnecessary ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like either:

1) A Thunderbolt lover (you can even do it carrying ordanance http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif )

2) Someone who loses a lot of wings... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Skoshi Tiger
09-17-2008, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Are you saying my awesome mach 0.8 vulching runs from 35,000 feet at planes still on the runway are unnecessary ?

I think it's fairly common sense. If your going to vulch you need to give the dozen or so 190's that hover around the Blue airfields something to chace after!

julian265
09-18-2008, 08:15 AM
I used to have the disappearing dot problem too. On my new computer I haven't had that happen... Yet. Tonight, in fact, I was able to track a dot as it passed over a dense forest - the top two pixels of the dot remained quite bright and easy to see. This was impossible most of the time on my previous computer.

Either the full graphics settings, or the ATI card is making the dots easier to see for me, since I'm using the same old monitor. Either way, it's pretty hard on many people.

DKoor
09-18-2008, 09:10 AM
Yes, probably it is easier to spot aircraft on "perfect" settings...
I think I'd go with those settings, but I'm afraid my old rig just wont let mehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.
When RoF pops out, that'd be a perfect excuse to buy myself a new pchttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

M_Gunz
09-18-2008, 11:07 AM
Julian, it isn't the dots I have trouble with. It's the LOD's and not for all the planes.

Afterhours
09-18-2008, 11:41 AM
Of course it is hard to see low flying aircraft if you are 3-5000 meters above them.

It was in real life too. In "The Blonde Knight of Germany", the greatest ace of WWII, Erich Hartmann talks about using this as a tactic and to his advantage.

He would fly his camouflaged aircraft low to the ground in the summer to blend in and hide before attacking enemy IL2s, and if he was flying down through an enemy formation he was firing on he would continue on down to blend in with the ground to escape and fly home.

He also used the light coloring on the bottom of his aircraft to blend in with the sky on sunny cloudless days.

In ANY book you read that has first-hand accounts of WWII fighter pilots, you will find example after example of pilots having trouble identifying other dots and aircraft in the sky. You will even find many examples of fighter pilots mistakenly joining enemy aircraft formations that they believe to be their own, and many, many examples of fighter pilots attacking and even shooting down aircraft from their own side.

So everything you experience in this sim when flying it with HARD settings, no icons and the cockpit on, is something that was part of real flying in WWII.

Being a real ACE in WWII was hard and not common at all. Only a very small number of fighter pilots in WWII were real ACES, and only a very small number of those who fly this sim will have the talent and determination to be a VIRTUAL ace on HARD settings.

It was very hard and took a lot of natural talent to be a real WWII fighter ace, and it takes the same here.

Those who want icons and no cockpits simply want an easy game, they never develop their gunnery or skills of plane identification, or other tactics that real WWII pilots had. They probably also never learn to navigate becauses they use mini-map icons and paths.

If you are flying your aircraft at 4000-7000 meters, then you are certainly not going to be attacking any aircraft that are fighting close to the deck, you will be fighting other aircraft that are between 3000-7000 meters alt.

On most of the good servers that have harder settings and map objectives, then most of the action will be closer to the ground where the objectives actually are, destroying tanks, artillery and ships with ground attacks.
And the fighters that are trying to attack and defend the ground attackers will also naturally be low to the ground and the map objectives.

There are no servers with the numbers of aircraft for each side set low enough that the map can be won by simply destroying aircraft in aerial combat. There WAS a sever that had aircraft numbers set this low for a while, but they quickly bumped them up high when some smarter pilots won the maps this way....

A number of pilots in this sim who fly on servers with harder setting DO fly at high altitude regularly(5-7000m). Believe me they are NOT attacking aircraft that are flying below 2000m. They are playing a different game, flying against others of their own ilk and altitude.

The pilots that fly around at very high altitude do not contribute anything to the map objectives, they are too high to attack or defend any ground targets. They are usually the kind of pilots who are more worried about getting shot down and their personal stats than they are about helping thier side win the map.

If you want to help with the map and be succsesful, then you have to fly at 4000 meters altitude or lower, where the map objectives and hence most of the fighting and action actually is.

If there are no clouds below 4K alt, then fly at 3-4K alt and look for flashes in the sun, tracers etc. Also it helps if you actually fly where the front line and the ground war is taking place!

If there are clouds then you have to fly either in or just below the clouds, or you have to fly close to the deck if you want to last very long without being shot down.

I am amazed at how many pilots in this sim will fly over low clouds, then be surprised when they are shot down by a higher flying aircraft who can spot them sticking out like a sore thumb against the white back-ground. This is common sense.

A lot of IL2 virtual pilots have been flying this sim online under HARD or FULL_REAL settings since it was introduced almost seven years ago.

Five-seven years ago the graphics in IL2 itself were not near as good as now, and we had much, much worse computer hardware than there is now, BUT WE ALL FLEW HARD SETTINGS WITH NO ICONS AND THE COCKPIT ON WITH NO PROBLEMS.

If it was done easily several years ago then there is absolutely no good argument for flying on easy settings now, you all have better hardware and monitors than we had back then!

Sacrificing three quarters of the actual tactics used in WWII because some GAMER is too lazy to learn anything new or put some effort into flying as REAL WWII aces had to is a very poor excuse for flying the sim on easy settings.

ALL people are doing who say that easy settings are more realistic is protecting their lazy a$$es and mostly protecting their EGOS. They do not have the talent or drive to be the best, so they have to tear down those who are smart enough to easily fly the sim succesfully on hard settings online.

What is that? Your computer is not as good as your buddies or somebody elses? Then TOUGH $HIT! IN real life fighter pilots were not equal either, they all had varying degrees of eyesight. It is VERY EASY to find first-hand accounts of WWII fighter pilots talking about how much better the eyesight and aircraft-spotting ability was for the top pilots in their squadrons!

The different monitors and hardware we all use actually mimics this REAL_LIFE aspect of WWII and adds one more bit of realism to hard-settings, or full-real servers.

MOST WWII fighter pilots WERE NOT ACES, and most were shot down or killed relatively quickly. To whine because everyone flying this sim cannot be an ACE and have an equal chance at doing well flying it is very unintelligent, unrealistic and just plain $tupid.

So get over it! If you cannot cut it on hard settings then it is probably because you are not as smart or coordinated as those who do better than you. The really smart pilots, the ACES, FIGURE out methods and tactics to be successful flying on hard settings, just as real WWII aces had to and could.

I have had friends watch me fly this sim, looking at my monitor while I was flying in combat who could not tell one single thing that was going on or that I was doing, it was as if they were looking at a screen of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics or something.

ALL the HUMANS who fly this sim will have varying degrees of aptitude for it, some will be good, some will be bad, and that is all they will have. Some will be naturals at it, some will get better with hard work and practice, and some NEVER will be any good at it and will always have to fly it on easy settings with open-cockpits and big icons to help them to see.

EVEN the GOOD pilots in WWII had to take time and learn how to spot enemy aircraft. At first they could not see dots or other aircraft unless they were right in front of their faces, but if they had what it took, with practice they learned where to look and what to look for and rose to the top.

The bottom line is, that when you click on the difficulty settings and see that OLEG laid out EASY, NORMAL and HARD settings that he was right.

EASY, with open cockpits and most features shut off are for those with no talent, Normal is for the average GAMER, not simmer, and HARD is for the simmer who has some brains, natural talent or determination to let the IL2 sim give them the closest thing it is capable to giving to WWII combat.

Anyway, getting back the the original start of this thread. If you want to fight and help your side flying this sim on hard settings on an online server with objectives then you have to fly where the action is and mix it up. You have to get within 3 kilometers or less to what you actually want to engage. Go outside and see what you can identify or spot looking 3 kilometers down a straight road off a hill.

If you are smart and talented you will figure out how to do your job and stay alive, just as lots of IL2 pilots have been doing on hard settings for the last seven years.

If you are not smart and not talented, then you will be back here year after year whining about how easy settings are more realistic and about how bad a job Oleg did making this sim and all the aircraft in it.

M_Gunz
09-18-2008, 05:06 PM
Planes slightly below me that I've had in my sights from 2km away in turning invisible at
400m-500m until I'm maybe 200m-300m away... I don't think that's quite the same complaint.
It is about LOD's. It really screws with BnZ.

That's why I fly with icons on.

LEXX_Luthor
09-18-2008, 06:13 PM
Afterhours::
Five-seven years ago the graphics in IL2 itself were not near as good as now, and we had much, much worse computer hardware than there is now, BUT WE ALL FLEW HARD SETTINGS WITH NO ICONS AND THE COCKPIT ON WITH NO PROBLEMS.
True. Dots were made for very low monitor resolutions at that time. Which is why online players wish to drop to 800x600 to see Dots, and these ancient Dots, the Dots of Old, Dots of Reknown, have not been upgraded to match current simming resolutions, with on tragically brief exception....

Only with PF and FB 3.0 did the Dots become configurable to be realistically used at modern high resolutions, but then Oleg disabled that in the fastest Patch releace in IL-2 hystery, and the brief flowering of No-Icon servers wilted and died.

LODs have always vanished in this sim at certain distances, and some small aircraft had LODs larger than the LODs of larger aircraft. Oleg has both a Dot problem and an LOD problem, and it has cost him customers, big time.


If you want to help with the map and be succsesful, then you have to fly at 4000 meters altitude or lower, where the map objectives and hence most of the fighting and action actually is.
High players should be attracted to missions where map goals are gained with high altitude strategic bombers and players having to intercept or escort them. Your idea generally will fail in realistic BoB And Beyond missions.

julian265
09-18-2008, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Julian, it isn't the dots I have trouble with. It's the LOD's and not for all the planes.

I should have made a new line after my second sentence. I know what you mean.

Wow, nice rant Afterhours. Most people play this sim for entertainment. You sound like you believe that winning the map is the ultimate goal and everything else is an inferior endeavour. You've been on full SWITCH since the start? Good for you. Some people don't like it that way and that's their choice, they're no less worthy. Most people starting out with IL2 require the training wheels to get going, many are turned off by the steeper learning curve of full switch, when we need all the online pilots we can get!

So you've never shot down a bomber at 4000+ then? You've never crossed the lines with a bomb load at 5000+?

I spend most of my flying time on warclouds, and love the settings. I'd probably prefer full switch too (I like to navigate), except in my timezone, I've not had good experiences with the people on spits vs 109s and zekes vs wildcats. My ping is too bad to play on the other full switch servers that I've noticed, and it's bad enough (260) on warclouds, to provide some wacky lag experiences occasionally (both aiding and hindering me), which is another reason that I've stopped comparing this sim to reality (except as far as flight models, haha).

Saying "TOUGH $HIT!" to those without a newish computer is just mean, and I bet you wouldn't say that if your rig wasn't up to the task. People's natural skill level is enough to separate them without their hardware and graphical settings providing an insurmountable obstacle to 'success', limiting them to being fodder for the desktop aces. Hardware such as sticks, throttles, rudder and head tracking also makes a large difference, which I find a pity, but a fact of life.

Many online fliers have spent more time identifying and shooting things than any second war pilot. I've been interested in second war aircraft for a long time before I had IL2, it took me a while to learn to ID aircraft again online, simply because monitors have what I consider to be large pixels, and learning to ID IL2 LOD's is a completely different kettle of fish to the real aircraft. One day, with pixels that are not individually visible, it will be a different story.

Stingray333
09-18-2008, 07:38 PM
That's a pretty solid rant for a 3rd posting on the forum, I almost read the whole thing

M_Gunz
09-18-2008, 08:03 PM
The ultimate in realism must be a 60 degree field of view made of flat pixels with limited
shades of all colors and no differential fading due to different distances between target
and background (go fly sometime, things fade with distance through water and dust laden air)
and no -as written by WWII pilots- glints off canopies and metal or shade changes on wings
as they rock.

It's the old full switch or you're a pu$$y tirade. TIR or equivalent is a must along with
every other advantage you can muster. This kind of thing goes back more than 10 years.
Somebody grew some hair and wants to prove themselves after getting their @$$ kicked out
in the real world -- again.

We've probably got someone with an extra login or a banned troll back (or both) trying to play
incognito. That's gotten to be du jour here lately though this one doesn't sign with KT.

BTW, I like the Afterhours post on tactics where he advises directly attacking an enemy
with twice his speed and co or higher alt even though that enemy hasn't seen him. In fact
he advises to turn and directly attack in all cases. A brilliant strategist! Well, when
you're not going to die for real and only count your online kills then you want to be as
quick as you can about it either way. And of course then you can rant about REALISM.

Erkki_M
09-18-2008, 11:23 PM
Mr. Afterhours.

After reading some of Your posts on this forum, I may say that You truly seem to be an exceptional person, to me at least. Not that I would not agree with (most) of your opinions. I wonder what nick you are using when you play online? At the moment I am not able to watch your tracks.

---------------

Back to the topic. I have a 24" widescreen, 10 months old. If its 10-15 o clock in game and the map is not Kurland Autumn, I can see even fighter sized planes flying in the deck 0-10km from me in the XY-surface from the altitude of 8000m. However, if its not midday or winter, very cloudy or foggy(dawn), seeing other planes is really hard. I only see them if they are reasonably close and I happen to look directly at them when they move against the background OR if they happen to be +-1000m from my altitude.

However, with my old 7-year-old 17" TFT I could see dots insanely far, from different altitudes and even at midnight. I didnt even have to shut the lights in the room.

I suppose it depends on the gaming res, settings, graphics card, screen AND the screens settings... I need to keep tweaking them.

Afterhours
09-19-2008, 05:33 AM
Thing is, there are IL2 pilots that are many times better at what they do than all but the very top percentile of WWII pilots were at what they did.

There are IL2 aces out there that have been flying this sim for around seven years, and have many more hours at it than any actual WWII pilot.

It is a lot different coming into this sim and trying to do well online than it was seven years ago when everyone had the same experience with it.

If a new person flies against one of these old timers online it will seem to them as if the old simmer is cheating he will be so much better than them.

Though I have been flying this sim since it went public, I am certainly not the best out there in al parameters. But when recently flying against one new pilot he called me a "magician", because no matter what situation or disadvantage he had me at I got out of it easily and shot him down.

For real WWII pilots who have their lives to lose, and for unsure and newer IL2 pilots, surely do not attack when you have a CLASSIC disadvantage if you care if you are shot down.

For me, I can pretty much do anything I can imagine is possible and pull it off half the time anyway, and if I don't then it is just as or more likely I will be able to get away with my virtual life.

There are situations where anything can be made to work, the ace is an ace because he knows his abilities and limits and can recognize that moment where they fit in.

Afterhours
09-19-2008, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by julian265:

So you've never shot down a bomber at 4000+ then? You've never crossed the lines with a bomb load at 5000+?

Saying "TOUGH $HIT!" to those without a newish computer is just mean, and I bet you wouldn't say that if your rig wasn't up to the task. People's natural skill level is enough to separate them without their hardware and graphical settings providing an insurmountable obstacle to 'success', limiting them to being fodder for the desktop aces. Hardware such as sticks, throttles, rudder and head tracking also makes a large difference, which I find a pity, but a fact of life.

Sure, I have had many, many instances of action at high altitude, if it is necessary no problem. If you read the thread start, which I was replying to, you will see that he says he cannot find any action flying at high altitude, so of course he should look somewhere else huh?

I do not fly with a new computer at all. My rig is a 32-bit AGP with 1.5 gig of ram, and I am running the same resolution as I did years ago. It is probably older than most computers anyone has on this forum.
Over busy areas my frame-rates drop to just a few per second, the solution is to simply not get into fights over big cities or busy AAA.

I do not use rudder pedals, track IR or any extra hardware or software. I have the computer, a twisty stick and that is IT.

Watch my tracks I put for download in the "most difficult" thread and you will see that no one needs fancy things to do ok.

We flew the original IL2 on TNT2 and Gforce3mx cards and 17" monitors on full-real settings with no problem. It WAS harder to fly all-around than the sim is now in every way.

I always set the highest resolution I could with my hardware, even over frame-rates, and I did as good as anyone. The sim looks much better at higher resolutions.

All the improvements in IL2 patches and hardware make flying now a piece of cake compared to the hardware and IL2 we flew several years ago, that is why those still talking about it being unflyable on hard-settings is so laughable.

I can tell anyone where the bear ****s in the woods because I was there to watch him do it.

Afterhours
09-19-2008, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Erkki_M:
However, if its not midday or winter, very cloudy or foggy(dawn), seeing other planes is really hard.

Sounds realistic enough to me, you think you should be able to see under those conditions?

You think a real pilot can see well when it is foggy, cloudy or poorly lit????

Jex_TE
09-19-2008, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Afterhours:
Of course it is hard to see

is this rant directed at me or are you just generalising here?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rnzoli
09-19-2008, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Planes slightly below me that I've had in my sights from 2km away in turning invisible at
400m-500m until I'm maybe 200m-300m away... This can happen even above me, the dot becomes a "Pixel Vapour" suddenly and I have problems to interpret it's movement, speed etc, so even against the clear blue sky, I am unable to track it properly, hence pulling lead is just based on pure guessing.

Guess the aircraft type, direction, speed from THIS pixelation:

http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/I16-lod-2a.bmp
http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/I16-lod-2b.bmp
http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/I16-lod-2c.bmp
http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/I16-lod-2d.bmp


And if this happens below me, I am completely screwed, the pixel vapour fully blends in neatly into the backgroud. I will likely re-acquire it only when bullets starts to fly towards me...

Erkki_M
09-19-2008, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Afterhours:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erkki_M:
However, if its not midday or winter, very cloudy or foggy(dawn), seeing other planes is really hard.

Sounds realistic enough to me, you think you should be able to see under those conditions?

You think a real pilot can see well when it is foggy, cloudy or poorly lit???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read it again: I CAN see planes very well against the clouds, even theres a thinnest layer of fog/mist near the deck. And I actually think that it is realistic, unless of course the other guy is flying IN that fog/mist... On time of day, I do not think it even should be possible to see "dots" from further out in bad light, but I dont really consider 3 or 4 PM to be much worse than midday.. A human eye can deal with it if theres only slightly less light. Anyhow, its annoying since I know that almost everyone else sees me very well! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Zoom2136
09-19-2008, 09:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif When diving from up high sideslip you plane to reduce your speed....

This way you always keep him in sight...

Bearcat99
09-19-2008, 10:30 AM
That is my one peeve with full switch servers. I just suffer from CSS... and to me that takes away some of the fun. I prefer limited icons...

buzzsaw1939
09-19-2008, 11:38 AM
Alright you guys!!!

Gunz... whats LOD?

bearcat...Whats CSS?

Afterhours...At the risk of deflateing your ego, don't make the mistake of compareing this sim to real life, it makes you look a little foolish!

I fly with some older gentelman who had aviation careers, some military, we get our butts handed to us on a regular bases!

I hope that doesn't sound like a rant! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Jaws2002
09-19-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:

Afterhours...At the risk of deflateing your ego, don't make the mistake of compareing this sim to real life, it makes you look a little foolish!

I fly with some older gentelman who had aviation careers, some military, we get our butts handed to us on a regular bases!

I hope that doesn't sound like a rant! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

+1

Afterhours, do you realize how silly you look when you keep going on and on about your "Super elite" settings, while ww2 veterans played this game with icons on?

M_Gunz
09-19-2008, 02:30 PM
To tell the truth, I have forgotten what the letters LOD stand for but LOD's are the little
planes you see (or don't as shown.. yeah I get the vapor trails too but just don't want to
remember, it f__ks things and immersion up) between the dots stage and the 3D render stage.

I've flown and spotted aircraft before and it's hard without a lot of practice. We search
for a pattern our eyes can make sense of and focus on so we can look in the same direction
that a plane is and not see it at all. There's a trick to catching motion where you skim
your view back and forth and suddenly the plane that ATC told you is there, is there.
It's weird, it's like spotting deer or other animals standing stock still in the woods, one
second they're not there and the next, there they are and yet at times you turn a corner
and oh, look, there's deer the instant you look. It's like Where's Waldo?

The thing is that once I find these things, I can look away and back and not lose them at
all. They don't turn invisible while I watch though they may move out of view while I watch.

It might not be possible to recreate 3D camo and object search on a 2D screen but then the
Where's Waldo pics do it and once I've found Waldo I can look back and he stands right out.

M_Gunz
09-19-2008, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Afterhours, do you realize how silly you look when you keep going on and on about your "Super elite" settings, while ww2 veterans played this game with icons on?

He just needs to find the much better players who spend major time playing online.
Seek out the best and find there's more than a few, and realize that there's whole classes of
players. What mudhens think is like saying you're taller than a blade of grass... so what?

Go run with the big dogs and you'll need to think of strategy. Sure you'll get caught and deal
with it but you don't just catch the best flat by handing them advantages. If you think that
you do then you haven't even met the best or you're lying to yourself and others. Go play with
the best and see if you don't end up getting shot down more than a couple times. Been there,
done it, still had a name or two I couldn't even catch and a few that got me more than I could
ever get them -- those are the ones that really mattered because they taught me lessons.

buzzsaw1939
09-19-2008, 03:50 PM
I don't know about the vanishing planes, but I was haveing that problem till I watched my tracks, I'm thinking why are you turning now stupid, the planes over there!

Turns out it was just me and my bad eyes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Afterhours
09-20-2008, 08:15 AM
Uh, first of all, WWII veterans need outside views and icons because they are 80-90 years old!

FA-Duck, a WWII vet who flies online with his squad on HARD settings does ok as long as he has lots of wingmen, he regularly shoots friendlies etc.. In the grand scheme of things he is average at best, but we can give him credit for doing that well at his age.

I have had a WWII vet/pilot fly my IL2 installation. I hooked rudder pedals up for him. What he did doesn't mean a thing, because flying this sim is nothing like flying a real aircraft. Now who is comparing the sim to real life? Duh...

I never compared real life to this sim. No one who could actually read and comprehend at fifth grade level would think that.

I merely said that when it is foggy or the light is dim in real life, it is harder for humans on earth to see than it is at high noon. So if the same quality is found in the sim, then THAT part of it mimics real life.

If you can see better in the fog and dim light than you can at high noon on a sunny day on earth, then your name must be Gorlock from planet X.

Oh, and GUNZ, I can move to the top of the stats in any hard settings online server and have done so many times over the last several years. There are lots that have been around as long as I have, some of them are as good or better than I am at some things too. But hardly any are as well-rounded as I am where they can score at the top in Kills, K/D ratio, AND ground attack points on hard settings servers. I can do it all.

I will join your server on HL anytime and do as well or better than anyone there. Just don't invite me to any kiddie servers with outside views, big dumb icons and no cockpit ok? If I want gaming like that I will go play Pac-Man.

What a bunch of newbs....

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2008, 02:24 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/LOL.gif

Oh, and GUNZ, I can move to the top of the stats in any hard settings online server and have done so many times over the last several years. There are lots that have been around as long as I have, some of them are as good or better than I am at some things too. But hardly any are as well-rounded as I am where they can score at the top in Kills, K/D ratio, AND ground attack points on hard settings servers. I can do it all.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif That was good, but not in the class of RayBanJockeyhttp://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/RBJ.gif

M_Gunz
09-20-2008, 02:30 PM
RBJ had more class.

stalkervision
09-20-2008, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
That is my one peeve with full switch servers. I just suffer from CSS... and to me that takes away some of the fun. I prefer limited icons...

You absolutely need limited icons. I don't blame you for a moment. Maybe when SOW comes out the higher resolutions and details will change this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jaws2002
09-20-2008, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/LOL.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oh, and GUNZ, I can move to the top of the stats in any hard settings online server and have done so many times over the last several years. There are lots that have been around as long as I have, some of them are as good or better than I am at some things too. But hardly any are as well-rounded as I am where they can score at the top in Kills, K/D ratio, AND ground attack points on hard settings servers. I can do it all.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif That was good, but not in the class of RayBanJockeyhttp://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/RBJ.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John Milton-Devil's advocate (http://new.wavlist.com/movies/122/da-vanity.wav)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/DA_Al_Pacino_037.jpg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

M_Gunz
09-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Afterhours:
So everything you experience in this sim when flying it with HARD settings, no icons and the cockpit on, is something that was part of real flying in WWII.

Being a real ACE in WWII was hard and not common at all. Only a very small number of fighter pilots in WWII were real ACES, and only a very small number of those who fly this sim will have the talent and determination to be a VIRTUAL ace on HARD settings.

It was very hard and took a lot of natural talent to be a real WWII fighter ace, and it takes the same here.

Those who want icons and no cockpits simply want an easy game, they never develop their gunnery or skills of plane identification, or other tactics that real WWII pilots had. They probably also never learn to navigate becauses they use mini-map icons and paths.

You never said, you never said. Blah-blah-blah.

Go ahead, redefine: So everything you experience in this sim when flying it with HARD settings, no icons and the cockpit on, is something that was part of real flying in WWII.

Everything? NOT just viewing in poor vis conditions? And then later you... must have FORGOT
what you posted earlier or are having trouble with those 5th grade writing skills.
Whichever.

It's easy to see why you post BAD ADVICE to newbs. It's because you need EASY TARGETS.
I hope as many as possible catch on, ignore your BS and become good players instead.


Here's the complete post so when you edit or delete that marvel it's not gone.

BTW, you're full of yourself. 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag kind of full. FY.



Afterhours

Posted Thu September 18 2008 10:41 Hide Post
Of course it is hard to see low flying aircraft if you are 3-5000 meters above them.

It was in real life too. In "The Blonde Knight of Germany", the greatest ace of WWII, Erich Hartmann talks about using this as a tactic and to his advantage.

He would fly his camouflaged aircraft low to the ground in the summer to blend in and hide before attacking enemy IL2s, and if he was flying down through an enemy formation he was firing on he would continue on down to blend in with the ground to escape and fly home.

He also used the light coloring on the bottom of his aircraft to blend in with the sky on sunny cloudless days.

In ANY book you read that has first-hand accounts of WWII fighter pilots, you will find example after example of pilots having trouble identifying other dots and aircraft in the sky. You will even find many examples of fighter pilots mistakenly joining enemy aircraft formations that they believe to be their own, and many, many examples of fighter pilots attacking and even shooting down aircraft from their own side.

So everything you experience in this sim when flying it with HARD settings, no icons and the cockpit on, is something that was part of real flying in WWII.

Being a real ACE in WWII was hard and not common at all. Only a very small number of fighter pilots in WWII were real ACES, and only a very small number of those who fly this sim will have the talent and determination to be a VIRTUAL ace on HARD settings.

It was very hard and took a lot of natural talent to be a real WWII fighter ace, and it takes the same here.

Those who want icons and no cockpits simply want an easy game, they never develop their gunnery or skills of plane identification, or other tactics that real WWII pilots had. They probably also never learn to navigate becauses they use mini-map icons and paths.

If you are flying your aircraft at 4000-7000 meters, then you are certainly not going to be attacking any aircraft that are fighting close to the deck, you will be fighting other aircraft that are between 3000-7000 meters alt.

On most of the good servers that have harder settings and map objectives, then most of the action will be closer to the ground where the objectives actually are, destroying tanks, artillery and ships with ground attacks.
And the fighters that are trying to attack and defend the ground attackers will also naturally be low to the ground and the map objectives.

There are no servers with the numbers of aircraft for each side set low enough that the map can be won by simply destroying aircraft in aerial combat. There WAS a sever that had aircraft numbers set this low for a while, but they quickly bumped them up high when some smarter pilots won the maps this way....

A number of pilots in this sim who fly on servers with harder setting DO fly at high altitude regularly(5-7000m). Believe me they are NOT attacking aircraft that are flying below 2000m. They are playing a different game, flying against others of their own ilk and altitude.

The pilots that fly around at very high altitude do not contribute anything to the map objectives, they are too high to attack or defend any ground targets. They are usually the kind of pilots who are more worried about getting shot down and their personal stats than they are about helping thier side win the map.

If you want to help with the map and be succsesful, then you have to fly at 4000 meters altitude or lower, where the map objectives and hence most of the fighting and action actually is.

If there are no clouds below 4K alt, then fly at 3-4K alt and look for flashes in the sun, tracers etc. Also it helps if you actually fly where the front line and the ground war is taking place!

If there are clouds then you have to fly either in or just below the clouds, or you have to fly close to the deck if you want to last very long without being shot down.

I am amazed at how many pilots in this sim will fly over low clouds, then be surprised when they are shot down by a higher flying aircraft who can spot them sticking out like a sore thumb against the white back-ground. This is common sense.

A lot of IL2 virtual pilots have been flying this sim online under HARD or FULL_REAL settings since it was introduced almost seven years ago.

Five-seven years ago the graphics in IL2 itself were not near as good as now, and we had much, much worse computer hardware than there is now, BUT WE ALL FLEW HARD SETTINGS WITH NO ICONS AND THE COCKPIT ON WITH NO PROBLEMS.

If it was done easily several years ago then there is absolutely no good argument for flying on easy settings now, you all have better hardware and monitors than we had back then!

Sacrificing three quarters of the actual tactics used in WWII because some GAMER is too lazy to learn anything new or put some effort into flying as REAL WWII aces had to is a very poor excuse for flying the sim on easy settings.

ALL people are doing who say that easy settings are more realistic is protecting their lazy a$$es and mostly protecting their EGOS. They do not have the talent or drive to be the best, so they have to tear down those who are smart enough to easily fly the sim succesfully on hard settings online.

What is that? Your computer is not as good as your buddies or somebody elses? Then TOUGH $HIT! IN real life fighter pilots were not equal either, they all had varying degrees of eyesight. It is VERY EASY to find first-hand accounts of WWII fighter pilots talking about how much better the eyesight and aircraft-spotting ability was for the top pilots in their squadrons!

The different monitors and hardware we all use actually mimics this REAL_LIFE aspect of WWII and adds one more bit of realism to hard-settings, or full-real servers.

MOST WWII fighter pilots WERE NOT ACES, and most were shot down or killed relatively quickly. To whine because everyone flying this sim cannot be an ACE and have an equal chance at doing well flying it is very unintelligent, unrealistic and just plain $tupid.

So get over it! If you cannot cut it on hard settings then it is probably because you are not as smart or coordinated as those who do better than you. The really smart pilots, the ACES, FIGURE out methods and tactics to be successful flying on hard settings, just as real WWII aces had to and could.

I have had friends watch me fly this sim, looking at my monitor while I was flying in combat who could not tell one single thing that was going on or that I was doing, it was as if they were looking at a screen of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics or something.

ALL the HUMANS who fly this sim will have varying degrees of aptitude for it, some will be good, some will be bad, and that is all they will have. Some will be naturals at it, some will get better with hard work and practice, and some NEVER will be any good at it and will always have to fly it on easy settings with open-cockpits and big icons to help them to see.

EVEN the GOOD pilots in WWII had to take time and learn how to spot enemy aircraft. At first they could not see dots or other aircraft unless they were right in front of their faces, but if they had what it took, with practice they learned where to look and what to look for and rose to the top.

The bottom line is, that when you click on the difficulty settings and see that OLEG laid out EASY, NORMAL and HARD settings that he was right.

EASY, with open cockpits and most features shut off are for those with no talent, Normal is for the average GAMER, not simmer, and HARD is for the simmer who has some brains, natural talent or determination to let the IL2 sim give them the closest thing it is capable to giving to WWII combat.

Anyway, getting back the the original start of this thread. If you want to fight and help your side flying this sim on hard settings on an online server with objectives then you have to fly where the action is and mix it up. You have to get within 3 kilometers or less to what you actually want to engage. Go outside and see what you can identify or spot looking 3 kilometers down a straight road off a hill.

If you are smart and talented you will figure out how to do your job and stay alive, just as lots of IL2 pilots have been doing on hard settings for the last seven years.

If you are not smart and not talented, then you will be back here year after year whining about how easy settings are more realistic and about how bad a job Oleg did making this sim and all the aircraft in it.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Thu September 18 2008

Afterhours
09-20-2008, 09:08 PM
Thanks Gunz!

Everyone should follow Gunz example, read and re-post what I have wrote here as much as possible so it will not be lost to those smart enough to comprehend it and make use of it.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Even though Gunz is not part of that crowd, he selfishly slaves on for those who can and for those who might see the light.....

M_Gunz
09-20-2008, 10:20 PM
I bet when you want your voice to go unrecognized, you talk out your mouth instead.

I copied that post so that even after you edit or delete the original I will have that gold mine
of f-ups to quote from.

WTE_Ibis
09-21-2008, 02:54 AM
Quote:
Oh, and GUNZ, I can move to the top of the stats in any hard settings online server and have done so many times over the last several years. There are lots that have been around as long as I have, some of them are as good or better than I am at some things too. But hardly any are as well-rounded as I am where they can score at the top in Kills, K/D ratio, AND ground attack points on hard settings servers. I can do it all.
---------------------------------------------
.

I think this is simply a wind up,
though it seems that every time we have unusually high sunspot activity we get this type of drivel.
Some people should be made keep their tinfoil hat on when they're let out to mix with the general public.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

__________________________________________

mmitch10
09-21-2008, 03:22 AM
It's just someone looking to wind people up. In this post Afterhours claims to be a newb him/herself.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/211...621009786#6621009786 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2111070776?r=6621009786#6621009786)

M_Gunz
09-21-2008, 03:26 AM
It's more than sunspots. Somebody got a while ago by Pirsch and is back with at least
3 active logins at this point and one or two others not active (fallback points) as the
internet terrorist to prove that forum rules and banning let alone logic and his own wide
inconsistencies won't stop him from trolling along as before... probably CAN'T stop if
you know what I mean, as in a permanent problem.

The troll got banned (twice now) and can't take it like a man. WTH, he's banned at other
forums and either can't find the un-moderated flight sim newsgroup or it's just not enough.

I worked for such a one. When he went off his lithium, that's how he acted.