PDA

View Full Version : Spits vs 109's...in a tailspin?



slipBall
12-15-2006, 10:58 AM
Did you used to fly on the server....have you stopped joining as much as you did in the past ...and why?
Does not seem to be as popular as it once was...just wondering why....plus I have nothing better to do right now, than to ask a dumb question http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/orders.jpg

Xiolablu3
12-15-2006, 11:01 AM
Possibly will get more popluar once everyone has hte same version>?

Its a cool server, I am not a regular or anything, but have enjoyed it when I have flown there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Bewolf
12-15-2006, 11:05 AM
version problems mostly. Have 4.07, most run 4.05 still.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

tomtheyak
12-15-2006, 11:06 AM
As a regular (i fly it almost exclusively) I can say that during the weekday evenings it does seem to have dropped off, but there were 46 players at one point on Sunday evening - almost too much for my poor old machine to cope with!

I think it's the time of year; we all have a lot of other Xmas related issues to deal with at the moment - shopping, meeting family, decorating, organising, or simply kicking back after a hectic day at work.

I'm sure things will reach a state of equilibrium come the New Year - especialy as people will be staying in more thanks to ploughing all their finances into the festivities!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Tom
****

"When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible."

click sig to go to VWA:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/tomsig01.jpg (http://www.web-wings.co.uk/chrisbroad/VWA/)

Monty_Thrud
12-15-2006, 11:13 AM
I used to love it when it was just Spits and 109s, then it gained more aircraft but was still good fun because the map makers were good and teamwork was excellent, they had regular bomber formations to cover, people made an effort...

Reason i stopped was the maps stayed the same for to long, nothing new but then i very rarely fly online these days...i got fed up of being out-turned by 109s in my uber Hurricane and Spitfire, to much jinking and lag/warping going on. Also offline, i can crank the graphics up and build my own missions.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//beatup.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif..http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//2006-02-23_012924_pilot11.gif ..http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Soviet Fighter Tactics (http://luthier.stormloader.com/home.html) Merlin (http://www.spitfire.dk/Chapter5.htm) The Doors (http://www.thedoors.com/index.cfm?fa=home1)
DA! (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/index.htm)
WWII Links (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/index.htm)

FlixFlix
12-15-2006, 11:28 AM
Spits vs 109 is my all-time favourite DF-Server http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif and I used to fly there alot.
But recently I got involved into the online-war (Airforce War), which right now simply is more attractive to me.
But as soon as I get tired of that I will be back on Spits, be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

I/JG78_Flix

PFflyer
12-15-2006, 11:32 AM
I tried it out a few times. But I like to fly axis and the plane sets there are ridiculously allied biased. Plus I hate all the obstacles on the airfields to taxi around.

I like Winds of War and Historia servers much better. That is my two cents.

tomtheyak
12-15-2006, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by PFflyer:
I tried it out a few times. But I like to fly axis and the plane sets there are ridiculously allied biased. Plus I hate all the obstacles on the airfields to taxi around.

I like Winds of War and Historia servers much better. That is my two cents.

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion. The map rotations even out quite a bit the blue/red technical advantage. I speak to the map makers regularly, and they try to have balance - a particular map's most modern Spit might manouevre better but generally will have to deal with blue opponents who are faster.

The obstacles are there for a reason; to stop people taking off from the pan, and also using taxiways for takeoff. It's a royal b1tch when some impatient idiot, who can't be arsed to do things properly (like the rest of us) ploughs into you trying to takeoff from the spawn point. Especially now that limited planesets are there, it's even more valid.

The rest of us taxi round regardless of obstacles; it's unfortunate but they're there because people don't observe the rules, not just cos we want to be difficult.

I'd like to give istoria a whirl but when ever i go to HL it's never populated - do most join via IP or something?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Tom
****

"When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible."

click sig to go to VWA:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/tomsig01.jpg (http://www.web-wings.co.uk/chrisbroad/VWA/)

slipBall
12-15-2006, 12:09 PM
During this year, I have been going on-line a bit. It really is way different from AI...I like it alot....I enjoy spits, but when I am free to fly on-line, the server is usally empty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


(quote) FlixFlix
Spits vs 109 is my all-time favourite DF-Server and I used to fly there alot.
But recently I got involved into the online-war (Airforce War), which right now simply is more attractive to me.
But as soon as I get tired of that I will be back on Spits, be sure.

I/JG78_Flix



This may be a good alternitive for me...can anyone join?...or must he be in a squad to join<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/orders.jpg

faustnik
12-15-2006, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion.

I think a lot of people get upset when the G2 isn't in a 1942 planeset. I don't know if that is it, but, it's common complaint. I've flown on Spit's vs. 109s in the past with the Vb/F4 matchup from both sides and liked it.

Flew LW on a DF server for the first time in over 6 months last week. It was a western 42 set and almost everybody was in a Bf109G2 or a Spit LF Vb. I was the only Fw190A4 for most of the time, WTH??????? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif I think the G2 is just a very popular plane.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustJumboSig.jpg
VFS (http://www.virtualfightersquadrons.com/)
Focke-Wulf 190 Consortium (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=8)
The Lockheed Syndicate (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=18)
Hawker Haven (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=19)
CWOS FB Forum More cheese, less whine (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=7)
Magnum PCSupport our support guys! (http://www.magnum-pc.com/)

TC_Stele
12-15-2006, 12:57 PM
Still seems pretty active. Maybe not as much as before. The Zekes v Wildcat is still as popular as it use to be.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

=====================
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9899/il2siggx3.gif

Ratsack
12-15-2006, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PFflyer:
I tried it out a few times. But I like to fly axis and the plane sets there are ridiculously allied biased. ...

...

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion. ...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

An example of the bias he's talking about would be a Normandy map with Spit IX25lb for the allies, but a limited number (10 from memory) of the most advanced German bird, the Fw190A8.

cheers,
Ratsack

VMF-214_HaVoK
12-15-2006, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by PFflyer:
I tried it out a few times. But I like to fly axis and the plane sets there are ridiculously allied biased. Plus I hate all the obstacles on the airfields to taxi around.

I like Winds of War and Historia servers much better. That is my two cents.

noob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/vmfhavok/theBlackSheep.jpg

VMF-214 The Original Black Sheep Squadron of the IL-2 series are currently recruiting dedicated and mature pilots. Visit us at http://vmf214blacksheep.com/

tomtheyak
12-16-2006, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PFflyer:
I tried it out a few times. But I like to fly axis and the plane sets there are ridiculously allied biased. ...

...

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion. ...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

An example of the bias he's talking about would be a Normandy map with Spit IX25lb for the allies, but a limited number (10 from memory) of the most advanced German bird, the Fw190A8.

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me? For a start we have at least 5 different mission maps that use Normandy with differing planesets, so which one? And limited A8s? I think you'll find the only limited FW190s facing 25lb Spits (which you forget to note are also limited) are A9s and D9s. Nearly all limited a/c are set to the same number, now 16.

We aren't limiting just to p1ss people off. Its an attempt to make things a little more realistic, so that the server doesn't become just a battle-of-the-best-planes on the map.
Also we hope that people realise that the 'hot-ship' they fly might be low on numbers and that as a result will fly more carefully, and not just race in for the suicidal 'I'm-going-to-die-but-i'll-take sum-of-the mothers-with-me!' attitude that we're trying to move away from.

Besides that, if you have a problem with the planesets there's 3 things you can do:

1) Fly elsewhere

2) Fly in server but moan loudly, make yourself unpopular and divide the community

3) Or go to the forums HERE (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index) and respectfully put your opinion across, and engage in meaningful discussion about map/mission properties.

We pride ourselves in trying to be even handed and many of the map makers spend as much time flying blue as they do red. Until you've made a map for a server I don't think you'll grasp how difficult it is to keep an exact balance - and as for keeping everybody happy, well... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Ratsack, honestly if your not flying cos of one planeset being out then your shooting yourself in the foot. So many good maps/missions to be put off by one or two unbalanced.

If you want it fixed, come on over to the forums and ask nicely. Hell, I might even back you up!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Tom
****

"When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible."

click sig to go to VWA:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/tomtheyak/tomsig01.jpg (http://www.web-wings.co.uk/chrisbroad/VWA/)

Kurfurst__
12-16-2006, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion.

I think a lot of people get upset when the G2 isn't in a 1942 planeset. I don't know if that is it, but, it's common complaint. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, no G-2 for 1942, that is odd to say at least... if it's for game balance, OK, whatever, but historically it is just so wrong. In the latter part of 1942, the G-2 was the dominant 109 in service..<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42333000/jpg/_42333631_puskasbudapest_ap203b.jpg
In memoriam Puskás Ferenc,2 April 1927 - 17 November 2006.
Nyugodjon Békében - May he rest in Peace.

http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/
Kurfürst - Your Resource for Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance!

"The Me 109 was exceptional in turning combat. If there is a fighter plane built for turning combat , it has to be the Messer! Speedy, maneuverable (especially in the vertical) and extremely dynamic."
- Major Kozhemyako, Soviet fighter pilot of the VVS

Ignored Posters : AKA_Tagert, Wurkeri, Gibbage, LStarosta, Sergio_101.

FlixFlix
12-16-2006, 05:33 AM
This may be a good alternitive for me...can anyone join?...or must he be in a squad to join

You dont have to be in a squad, but its highly advisable to enter with some mates. Registering is necessary however (http://war.by-airforce.com/).

Nonetheless, I suggest you give that Spits vs 109 a chance. Great maps and skilled pilots there. Just make sure you have the correct markings!

I/JG78_Flix

P.S.: And keep the limited planeset in mind...

slipBall
12-16-2006, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by FlixFlix:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This may be a good alternitive for me...can anyone join?...or must he be in a squad to join

You dont have to be in a squad, but its highly advisable to enter with some mates. Registering is necessary however (http://war.by-airforce.com/).

Nonetheless, I suggest you give that Spits vs 109 a chance. Great maps and skilled pilots there. Just make sure you have the correct markings!

I/JG78_Flix

P.S.: And keep the limited planeset in mind... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



quote
P.S.: And keep the limited planeset in mind.



I'm sure thats one reason...and the no 109 G2, is another....anyway the airwar looks good...I registered<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/orders.jpg

Xiolablu3
12-17-2006, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion.

I think a lot of people get upset when the G2 isn't in a 1942 planeset. I don't know if that is it, but, it's common complaint. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, no G-2 for 1942, that is odd to say at least... if it's for game balance, OK, whatever, but historically it is just so wrong. In the latter part of 1942, the G-2 was the dominant 109 in service.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


But isznt the 109G2 in game actually a 1.42 ATA version which the Germans hardly used in 1942?

I thought almost all were derated becasue of engine fires in the very first models.

Also, if the map is in the first half of 1942 then Bf109EZ//B's and 109F4's would be around in numbers.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Ratsack
12-17-2006, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PFflyer:
I tried it out a few times. But I like to fly axis and the plane sets there are ridiculously allied biased. ...

...

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion. ...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

An example of the bias he's talking about would be a Normandy map with Spit IX25lb for the allies, but a limited number (10 from memory) of the most advanced German bird, the Fw190A8.

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Excuse me? For a start we have at least 5 different mission maps that use Normandy with differing planesets, so which one? And limited A8s? I think you'll find the only limited FW190s facing 25lb Spits (which you forget to note are also limited) are A9s and D9s.


Nope. This was two to three weeks ago. It was a Falaise gap scenario, and there were - properly, too - no Doras in the German plane set, or A9s. Only the Bf109s (which I didn't check, so I don't know which ones), and this limited number of A8s. It was specifically mentioned in the briefing that there were 'some of our newest planes, Fw190A8s, but there's only ten of them so be careful.' I remember that it seemed odd to me that a July 1944 map would have the A8 as 'new', which is why I remembered it.

With Spit 25s on the opposing team, that plane set was most certainly unbalanced.




Originally posted by tomtheyak:
We aren't limiting just to p1ss people off.


I never said you were, mate. My post was very polite, and sought to expand upon another comment made earlier in the thread.



Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Its an attempt to make things a little more realistic, so that the server doesn't become just a battle-of-the-best-planes on the map.


A highly laudable goal. I hope you succeed, too. Nothing makes me more bored than to go into a server and see endless Bf109G10s and K4s and Fw190D9s facing a horde of Spitfire IXs.

So, good luck.


Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Also we hope that people realise that the 'hot-ship' they fly might be low on numbers and that as a result will fly more carefully, and not just race in for the suicidal 'I'm-going-to-die-but-i'll-take sum-of-the mothers-with-me!' attitude that we're trying to move away from.


As above. Good luck, too.


Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Besides that, if you have a problem with the planesets there's 3 things you can do:

1) Fly elsewhere


2) Fly in server but moan loudly, make yourself unpopular and divide the community

3) Or go to the forums HERE (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index) and respectfully put your opinion across, and engage in meaningful discussion about map/mission properties.


Well, mate, I just took up option three in this forum right here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Originally posted by tomtheyak:
We pride ourselves in trying to be even handed and many of the map makers spend as much time flying blue as they do red. Until you've made a map for a server I don't think you'll grasp how difficult it is to keep an exact balance


Never said it was easy, old fruit. Just expanded on a point that seemed to need some clarification.


Originally posted by tomtheyak:
- and as for keeping everybody happy, well... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Ratsack, honestly if your not flying cos of one planeset being out then your shooting yourself in the foot.


Nope. Server's usually empty when I'm on line. For example, right now (11:21 GMT Sun 17 Dec. 06) it's empty, while there are 22 bodies in Warclouds and 10 in Zekes vs Wildcats).


Originally posted by tomtheyak:
So many good maps/missions to be put off by one or two unbalanced.

If you want it fixed, come on over to the forums and ask nicely. Hell, I might even back you up!

I pointed it out nicely here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cheers,
Ratsack

Ratsack
12-17-2006, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion.

I think a lot of people get upset when the G2 isn't in a 1942 planeset. I don't know if that is it, but, it's common complaint. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, no G-2 for 1942, that is odd to say at least... if it's for game balance, OK, whatever, but historically it is just so wrong. In the latter part of 1942, the G-2 was the dominant 109 in service.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


But isznt the 109G2 in game actually a 1.42 ATA version which the Germans hardly used in 1942?

I thought almost all were derated becasue of engine fires in the very first models.

.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's somewhere in between the 1.3 ATA and 1.42 ATA versions. There was a long (and, need I add, acrimonious) thread on this subject some time ago. Once the data had been presented and the blood and entrails washed away, the G-2 in the game turned out to match the early G-2 fairly well, except for rate of climb, which is a bit optimistic. (This is the bit where Kurfurst will point out that RoC is optimistic accross the board in this sim...and we all end up covered in blood'n'guts again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif )

I personally think Oleg meant to model the 1.3 ATA G-2 rather than the 1.42 ATA version. If IL-2 Compare 4.07 doesn't lie, it shows the Bf109G6_late having slightly better performance than the early G-6. The main performance-related difference between an early 1943 G-6 and a late 1943 G-6 was (you guessed it) 1.3 and 1.42 ATA boost respectively. They cleared the DB605A for 1.42 sometime in the second half of the year (September from memory), so this would make some sense. I think Oleg's modelled it.

It makes no sense that he'd give us a 1.3 ATA G-6, a 1.42 ATA G-6_late, and a 1.42 ATA G-2.

But then again, some other things in this sim make no sense, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

My two cents.

cheers,
Ratsack

[EDIT]: PS - the engine fires were to do with oil leaking from the oil tank just behind the spinner. It dripped onto the engine and ignited. The fire problem was solved by putting those two tiny little air scoops on each side of the forward cowling. This cooled the surface of the engine so the oil didn't flash when it hit the head.

They never solved the oil leaking issues with the DB 605. This is why you'll see the tops of the drop tanks on 109Gs covered in cr@p. It's oil.

As far as I know this had nothing to do with the boost issue.

Brain32
12-18-2006, 05:19 AM
Dora's don't belong on that lineup if you ask me, and if there are going to be common, allow the Spit +25 which was on the continent in '45 to compensate.
To compensate what? To allow weekend war winners to win it quickly so they don't cry? Maybe if Spit25 wasn't such a bullsh1t plane made for ******s. Don't mix RL with this game people, Antons are just too big cr@p in this game to fight Spits(regular not to mention 25er) like they should.
IMO Spit18+late US planes = Dora on Blue or better make a coop so you can fight Blue AI<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

This is my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kettenhunde
12-18-2006, 05:24 AM
es. The post of mine to which fighter 966 replied was in the context of a discussion of the Bf109G2.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It was not even you I replied too then Ratsack. It was Fighter 966 in this post:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/596...411060515#9411060515 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5961093415?r=9411060515#9411060515)

All the best,

Crumpp<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Support the White 1 Foundation!

The White 1 Foundation was started to facilitate the museum quality conservation, display, study, restoration, and operation of the Focke Wulf FW 190 F8, known by its WWII call sign, White 1. In doing so, we are preserving parts of World history in a living memorial to all people who lost their lives in the war. We are preserving an integral part of great aerial battles which once filled the skies.

Of some, parts of this aircraft are the only traces which remain.

http://www.white1foundation.org/

Kurfurst__
12-18-2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:

Allied bias? I'd argue there but there's too much subjective opinion.

I think a lot of people get upset when the G2 isn't in a 1942 planeset. I don't know if that is it, but, it's common complaint. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, no G-2 for 1942, that is odd to say at least... if it's for game balance, OK, whatever, but historically it is just so wrong. In the latter part of 1942, the G-2 was the dominant 109 in service.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


But isznt the 109G2 in game actually a 1.42 ATA version which the Germans hardly used in 1942?

I thought almost all were derated becasue of engine fires in the very first models.

.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's somewhere in between the 1.3 ATA and 1.42 ATA versions. There was a long (and, need I add, acrimonious) thread on this subject some time ago. Once the data had been presented and the blood and entrails washed away, the G-2 in the game turned out to match the early G-2 fairly well, except for rate of climb, which is a bit optimistic. (This is the bit where Kurfurst will point out that RoC is optimistic accross the board in this sim...and we all end up covered in blood'n'guts again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's an 1.3ata early version. At least the speeds and turns are good match for that, the climb rate is odd but as you noted, quite a few planes are off (usually the early addons, like late Soviet ones, there are some which are quite correct). But then of course, the radiator flap position had a very noticable effect on climb rate, and this part of the sim is very poorly modelled - you get very little cooling and drag regardless of radiator position..


I personally think Oleg meant to model the 1.3 ATA G-2 rather than the 1.42 ATA version. If IL-2 Compare 4.07 doesn't lie, it shows the Bf109G6_late having slightly better performance than the early G-6. The main performance-related difference between an early 1943 G-6 and a late 1943 G-6 was (you guessed it) 1.3 and 1.42 ATA boost respectively. They cleared the DB605A for 1.42 sometime in the second half of the year (September from memory), so this would make some sense. I think Oleg's modelled it.

IHMO both G-6s are 1.3ata versions. As per ilcompare there's some marginal difference only in speed (=> less drag), but RoC is pretty much the same. If the G-6 late would have an 1.42ata version, it should have a marked effect on RoC relative to the G-6 early, but it's isn't the case.I think Oleg attributes the G-6 late marginally better aerodynamics because of the non-framed late canopy.



[EDIT]: PS - the engine fires were to do with oil leaking from the oil tank just behind the spinner. It dripped onto the engine and ignited. The fire problem was solved by putting those two tiny little air scoops on each side of the forward cowling. This cooled the surface of the engine so the oil didn't flash when it hit the head.

They never solved the oil leaking issues with the DB 605. This is why you'll see the tops of the drop tanks on 109Gs covered in cr@p. It's oil.

As far as I know this had nothing to do with the boost issue.

I don't of oil leaking was from the cowling's oil tank (though the 605 was quite 'leaky' engine, and so were quite a few others of the era). Anyway, the leaks are probably related to the oil cooler under the cowling developing some minor leaks, which flows onto the fuselage droptank.. recce 109s, which had their camare port under the mid-fuselage, actually had a little 'fence' on the fuselage underside in front of the camera to prevent the lens getting dirty. The small scoops are not cooling the engine surface, they are for better cooling of the spark plugs, actually. Spark plug temperatures seem to be a major concern on all sides during WW2, spark plug technology lagged behind engine tech.

As for the engine fires, I guess (don't know for sure, Daimler Benz didn't know for a year either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) ultimately they are rooted in the fact that the bigger DB 605s oil scavange pump was more powerful, the engine oil capacity a bit undersized. At least I guess because all sorts of troubles with the DB 605s were reported until DB fitted an oil de-aerator in September 1943 and suddenly, the 'this months DB 605 problems' topic disappeared from LW top-brass meetings..

What happened is that at high powers bubbles were forming because of the big pump in the lubricant -> lubrication went to nil, and from that onwards, all sort of nasty things are going to happen on a 35-litre class engine as you can imagine.. the oil de-aerator seems to have solved this.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42333000/jpg/_42333631_puskasbudapest_ap203b.jpg
In memoriam Puskás Ferenc,2 April 1927 - 17 November 2006.
Nyugodjon Békében - May he rest in Peace.

http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/
Kurfürst - Your Resource for Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance!

"The Me 109 was exceptional in turning combat. If there is a fighter plane built for turning combat , it has to be the Messer! Speedy, maneuverable (especially in the vertical) and extremely dynamic."
- Major Kozhemyako, Soviet fighter pilot of the VVS

Ignored Posters : AKA_Tagert, Wurkeri, Gibbage, LStarosta, Sergio_101.

Ratsack
12-18-2006, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
...

I don't of oil leaking was from the cowling's oil tank (though the 605 was quite 'leaky' engine, and so were quite a few others of the era). Anyway, the leaks are probably related to the oil cooler under the cowling developing some minor leaks, which flows onto the fuselage droptank.. recce 109s, which had their camare port under the mid-fuselage, actually had a little 'fence' on the fuselage underside in front of the camera to prevent the lens getting dirty. The small scoops are not cooling the engine surface, they are for better cooling of the spark plugs, actually. Spark plug temperatures seem to be a major concern on all sides during WW2, spark plug technology lagged behind engine tech.

As for the engine fires, I guess (don't know for sure, Daimler Benz didn't know for a year either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) ultimately they are rooted in the fact that the bigger DB 605s oil scavange pump was more powerful, the engine oil capacity a bit undersized. At least I guess because all sorts of troubles with the DB 605s were reported until DB fitted an oil de-aerator in September 1943 and suddenly, the 'this months DB 605 problems' topic disappeared from LW top-brass meetings..

What happened is that at high powers bubbles were forming because of the big pump in the lubricant -> lubrication went to nil, and from that onwards, all sort of nasty things are going to happen on a 35-litre class engine as you can imagine.. the oil de-aerator seems to have solved this.


I have read that prime culprit in the leaking stakes was the horseshoe shaped oil tank behind the spinner. The oil dripped from there to the engine and into the bottom of the the cowling. From there, it went where ever it wanted, I suppose.

I also read that the de-aerator was tried in an attempt to solve the leaking tank by removing the bubbles you mentioned. They went on to say it didn't work and was deleted.

I had not heard before of the fires being blamed on the bubbles in the oil, other than by way of the leaked oil catching fire on the hot engine.

cheers,
Ratsack

[EDIT]: PS - the server is empty again. It's GMT 0430 Tue 19 Dec. 06. Warclouds 22 players. Zeke vs Wildcat 15. It's definitely not as popular as it was six months ago.

Manu-6S
12-19-2006, 03:31 AM
My opinion?

Too many ground objects that maps like Normandy were fps killers.

Obviously the totally biased mission-planeset package (I said this from months).

The only good things are the full difficulty and the good management of landing fields.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.diavolirossi.net/manu/banner.gif (http://www.diavolirossi.net)

Kurfurst__
12-19-2006, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
I have read that prime culprit in the leaking stakes was the horseshoe shaped radiator behind the spinner. The oil dripped from there to the engine and into the bottom of the the cowling. From there, it went where ever it wanted, I suppose.

I also read that the de-aerator was tried in an attempt to solve the leaking tank by removing the bubbles you mentioned. They went on to say it didn't work and was deleted.

I had not heard before of the fires being blamed on the bubbles in the oil, other than by way of the leaked oil catching fire on the hot engine.

cheers,
Ratsack

[EDIT]: PS - the server is empty again. It's GMT 0430 Tue 19 Dec. 06. Warclouds 22 players. Zeke vs Wildcat 15. It's definitely not as popular as it was six months ago.

What I have on that is that they tested the de-aerator but it didn't work out initially. This is from a June 1943 E stelle Rechlin progress report. However there's also a transcript of a meeting held early September, 1943 and they are saying the tests so far and very positive and they 'have absolute confidence' that it will work out. Even the rival Junkers said this on the meeting as well as from guys from Rechlin. I don't know the reporting on these test, but the next thing we know that Bf 109G manuals issued in late September/early October suddenly clear the 1.42ata rating, and the ever present discussion on DB 605 bearing problems suddenly disappears without trace afterwards.. Moreover, later datasheets of DB 605A and the improved DB 605D note the oil de-aerator being present.

It should be noted that the problems were different on different designs using the DB605; the Me 110s were less trouble prone as they had already installed a deaerator earlier and they had more space available than the Me 109.

I would rule out oil dipping either, perhaps this was an early problem, and it is certain Daimler Benz had to solve an array of problems with it's new powerplant between May 1942 - October 1943 before the clearance of Notleistung. As engine fires, the cause is difficult to ascertain, but if a big engine like this doesn't get lubrication, the main bearings are going to produce a lot of heat, and eventually fire, I presume, just like when an engine is critically hit by bullets.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42333000/jpg/_42333631_puskasbudapest_ap203b.jpg
In memoriam Puskás Ferenc,2 April 1927 - 17 November 2006.
Nyugodjon Békében - May he rest in Peace.

http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/
Kurfürst - Your Resource for Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance!

"The Me 109 was exceptional in turning combat. If there is a fighter plane built for turning combat , it has to be the Messer! Speedy, maneuverable (especially in the vertical) and extremely dynamic."
- Major Kozhemyako, Soviet fighter pilot of the VVS

Ignored Posters : AKA_Tagert, Wurkeri, Gibbage, LStarosta, Sergio_101.

HARRIER_401
12-19-2006, 10:21 AM
Low numbers are due to the ban happy admin. Also the stat program.

Xiolablu3
12-19-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The most popular online server, Warclouds, is in favour of Axis planes, with late 1944 190D's and 109G10's vs 1943 Spitfire IX's and early 1944 P51's.
Excuse me? What 1943 Spitfires are you talking about? I'm sick and tired of that BS. First Spit25 was not that common plane, you could see far more Spit18's througout the 1944. Also if you think our 109G10(or any of the late 109's for that mater) is a match for a Spit25 or even Spit18, wanna' try? Also don't forget there is also a Tempest, P38L_late, P47D_late, MustangMkIII, both P51D's, etc.
I fail to see just how is such planeset biased to either side. IMO it's the most balanced planeset I ever saw. WC admins took a lot of care to make it like that and they did a great job.
And PF_flyer is maybe exaggerating a bit but there are really servers that are sometimes ridiculous. I can't say for Spits vs 109's as I was there only few times and the planeset was really both, balanced and historical. But if a map with FW190A8 vs Spit25(especially if A8 is limited-ROFLMAO) would show up, I would simply leave or go Red to make some stat records. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dora was not that common either, in fact there were few.

The 1944 Spitfire IX on Warclouds has the exact same stats as the 1943 Spitfire IXc, but with 2 50cals in place of the 303's.

SPitfire IX 25lbs+ Spitfire MkXIV = More than the full amount of Doras produced.


Noone is talking about Spit 25lbs vs Anton, that too would be a bad matchup, but Spitfire IX/P47/P51D vs 190A6/A8 and 109G6/G10 would be the most realistic planeset. If you are going to add Dora, then add the Spitfire 25lbs, its still a slow plane compared the the German types.

Also any map based in 1941/42 is likely to have better German planes, the Me109F4 and FW190A4 totally overwhelm the Spitfire mkV and P40. Its not hard to find maps with Axis advantage.

I am not 'red whining' here, just wanting balanced maps, cos they always create a good game. I am sure you would agree that the Dora is a much better plane for a Veteran than any other prop plane in the game. The Spitfire 25lbs is very good too, but a Dora pilot is so much faster than him. A noob can do well in a Spitfire 25lbs, but thats historically correct, the Spitfire was an easy plane to fly. I would much rather be in a Dora than a Spitfire IX 25lbs, and I think most Veterans would agree.

I cannot remember the last time I was shot down by a Spitfire while I was in a FW190, its almost a year ago at least.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Brain32
12-19-2006, 12:29 PM
The 1944 Spitfire IX on Warclouds has the exact same stats as the 1943 Spitfire IXc, but with 2 50cals in place of the 303's.
Yes it is indeed sad and ridiculous that late war hot rods have such a hard time with the 1943 Spit isn't it? Ah well, whatever...

SPitfire IX 25lbs+ Spitfire MkXIV = More than the full amount of Doras produced.
You can back that statement up with something solid right?

Spitfire IX/P47/P51D vs 190A6/A8 and 109G6/G10 would be the most realistic planeset.
Actually that is not that bad, I doubt anybody would fly A8 though as it's POS and while it could run nicely from a Spit, both, P51D and P47D can catch it, outturn it and outclimb it, but with 109G10 in the mix it might prove bareble, however I like the Tempest and if you put that one in, then without Dora, game would turn into moving target shooting practice for Red.
If you put Spit25 in I expect nothing less than a Me262. Otherwise it's useless to play as you will have a team of Doras running in strait lines screaming at 650kmh, while US planes and Tempests kick on it without fear of Doras putting up the fight, really ridiculous.
Arrgh you edited LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I am sure you would agree that the Dora is a much better plane for a Veteran than any other prop plane in the game.
Well I wouldn't, it's nothing better or worse than Tempest, P47D_late, Mustang3, Spit25, Yak3, LA7 etc. Each and any of those have certain advantages and disadvantages over each other, I simply fail to see how is Dora the best, among the best - YES, THE best - NO.

The Spitfire 25lbs is very good too, but a Dora pilot is so much faster than him.
Faster yes, but that's the only advantage, speed is a good advantage to have but if everything else is inferiour, is the faster plane really superiour?

I would much rather be in a Dora than a Spitfire IX 25lbs, and I think most Veterans would agree.
That entirely depends on the task I'm about the face and opponents I'm about to face. I have no problems flying a "vanilla" SpitMkIXe against entire Blue team consisted of Doras.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

This is my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
12-19-2006, 01:22 PM
Contemporary Luftwaffe planes really only have a tough time vs a Spitfire if they try and dogfight it. Its simply a great turner and climber, meaning its a superb dogfighter. Bascially a WW1 Biplane could outfight a Me109 if he tried to dogfight it. Thats the reason the Spitfire can compete.

As long as you keep fast and dont turn too much, a SPitfire should not give a FW190 too many troubles, as he can always run to his teammates. Remember all FW190's in the war had wingmen at the very least. In game with teamates Fw190's can rule the map.

I dont mean to preach to you, I know you fly a lot but seriously I would rate the Dora above the Spitfire 25lbs, you have one massive advantage of being able to determine if the fight happens at all, whereas if you attack he must either try and climb away or fight, and climbing away is a very risky manouvre.

These days I find Axis planes in the game a bit better except in 1943 where the FW190A6 is about equal to a SPitfire IX as long as you are not forced to fight him alone. As soon as you get into a bad position (often after the first turn because he can always outturn you) you can run for teamates.

Flying a plane as if you were in it, the FW190 is superior. The more you are flying a computer game, the better the Spitfire gets. I find the type of flying you do in a SPitfire is far more dangerous than the type of flying you do in a FW190. A strange statement I know, but I think you know what I mean.

I agree that the Me262 should be allowed on some maps in limited numbers vs Spitfire 25lbs.

Those other planes you mention really arent as good as the Dora. Seriously you would take a Mustang III equal to a Dora? Surely you are not serious, all the plane has is top speed, nothing else.

If you think the red planes like the Spitfire 25lbs are better why not fly them? Why the big worry about what colour you fly?

I think blue planes have the edge, so I fly blue mostly when I can. If you think the Spitfire is uber then fly it, dont complain about it!!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Xiolablu3
12-19-2006, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:


Summer '44 is very well represented in the sim, with the Spit IX, P-51D-5, P-47D-27, P-38J going very well with the Bf109G6 late, Bf109G-14, Fw190A6 and Fw190A8. A great balance with a historic planeset.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I love the 190A6 in this planeset. Still fast enough to outrun the SPitfire IX easily, and massive firepower/great handling.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Brain32
12-19-2006, 06:53 PM
I was thinking of replying this to Xiola via PM since we practically turned this thread into friendly chit-chat, but I'm too lazy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Anyway *snaps fingers*:

Contemporary Luftwaffe planes really only have a tough time vs a Spitfire if they try and dogfight it. Its simply a great turner and climber, meaning its a superb dogfighter.
Dogfighting is not just turning and climbing, If I come with superiour E and engage in a series of BnZ attacks, I'm still dogfighting, but I'm not turning and climbing with you.

As long as you keep fast and dont turn too much, a SPitfire should not give a FW190 too many troubles, as he can always run to his teammates. Remember all FW190's in the war had wingmen at the very least. In game with teamates Fw190's can rule the map.
But if I come with alt advantage, dive on a Spit, force him turn and then zoom up to reposition and re-engage, may I please expect that I can repeat that atleast more than twice. Instead of watching him spiral climb up to me avoiding attacks as he likes until he arrives to my alt and forces me to run like mad?
BTW, Why Spitfires wouldn't work as a team?

I would rate the Dora above the Spitfire 25lbs, you have one massive advantage of being able to determine if the fight happens at all, whereas if you attack he must either try and climb away or fight, and climbing away is a very risky manouvre.
Spitfire engaged by Dora, I climb turn, he ends on my 12, he runs away, I can't catch him, he can't shoot me, same sh1t different wrapping. Unless we will always assume Spit is in inferiour position, preferbly turning on the deck at the edge of a stall. Climbing away risky? Only if "third" party comes into the fight, but same can happen to 190/109 diving away, P47/51/Tempest dives on it, and has a nice strait and level target to shot at, I made many kills like that...

I find the type of flying you do in a SPitfire is far more dangerous than the type of flying you do in a FW190. A strange statement I know, but I think you know what I mean.
Not exactly as I fly all planes in the same way, engage in a dogfight only when the only other option is death. Spitfire, but only MkIX and MkVIII are great "bnz" planes especially their CW versions, quite frankly I can't remember when was a last time I completed 360 turn or more in combat while flying a Spitfire, I only turn to evade and never more than 90-180 deg while on attack, try it...

Those other planes you mention really arent as good as the Dora. Seriously you would take a Mustang III equal to a Dora?
All within their engagement envelopes, of all mentioned Mustang3 is among the best, btw it rolls better at high speed it turns better at most speeds, it's faster, even dramatically on some alts, it mostly has inferiour sustained climb ability and ofcourse weaker guns, seriously Mustang3 is probably the most underrated plane in the game...
How to fight the Dora in it, simple, try to force it into flat turn or to run, just don't engage it in a low speed scissors and in sustained climbing contest below about 2000m and from about 4000-7000m, that's it, assuming equal pilots, in all other situations YOU are holding better cards in your hand. Variations to this are also true for other planes as are for the Dora itself, competitive does not mean apsolutely equal or better.

If you think the Spitfire is uber then fly it, dont complain about it!!
No I don't thik it's uber(except the 25lbser which is really out of this world) but if you follow my comments in this thread you will easily see that I'm merely saying it's not inferiour, that's it. Oh and btw you might be suprised just how often I switch sides and planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
BTW2 I completely agree that in early scenarious(SpitV vs 109F4/G2/109A4) Spitfire really is inferiour http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

This is my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Krt_Bong
12-26-2006, 12:21 PM
I wish to address the issue of Spits vs 109's as the thread title suggest but you people here seem to change the topics of the threads here at will and like anyone would really care since all of you non-warbird-flying-dont-know-a-damn-thing-about-real-history experts can get in your 2 game tokens worth. Firstly Warbirds of Prey is full real historical server. we try to make everybody satisfied which really sucks since most of the non registered guests are the ones we have the most problems with i.e.
*Taking off out of the pits and colliding with other pilots taxiing to the end of the runway who calling out intent via TS (provided by us with plenty of separate channels for separate squads)are suddenly destroyed by some goofball who cant play by Our Rules clearly stated on the brief.
* Complaining in the chatbar that the Plane sets are unfair and generally causing mischeif of one form or another due to the percieved inequalities, these include
* joining the opposing team and crashing planes of limited amounts like the afore mentioned 25# Spit into the parked planes on the runway to cause even more havoc and reduce plane counts just to be a ***.
* purposely colliding with enemy aircraft because of their poor marksmanship and excusing the behavior by calling themselves Kamikaze
the list goes on but I'm sure these are familiar to anyone who has flown online.
We have objectives - Completion of said objectives can win the mission even if you are all alone on your side: Bomb the train and sink or destroy vehicles and you win. (But someone always thinks this is unfair because they only want to have a dogfight and see stats with their name posted so they can gloat I guess)
Usually when this happens the losers resort to name calling which gets them kicked (lol my favorite).
Lastly I designed the Falaise Gap mission in which Historically the Germans put up very little Air Support do to lack of Fuel/Ammo hence it was a Turkey Shoot for Ground Attack Aircraft because of all the Trucks and Armor out of gas on the side of the road and in open fields, but yet because no-one would join a one sided ground attack mission I had to put in a mission for the Blue side which included a limited amount of Do-335s which had actually been seen by Allied Pilots usually going in the opposite direction at very high speed, but someone else did the final editing and decided to remove them for a more balanced Aircraft set even though the Germans never really put up anything there!
Now I realise that you guys are all 97 year old former fighter pilots who are also history experts and no-one can tell you different but most of you will jump into any string and spew all your useless blather about whose server sucks and why and the temperature of the urine in the pilots relief bag is all wrong but most of the adults who fly this sim because we like it really wish you would STFU and fly, practice some ettiquette, give some respect to the amount of time and effort that we put into trying to balance realism with smooth gameplay and if you dont like flyig at WoP then go somewhere else and see how you like it and I mean really GO. We want pilots who want something thats made by adults for adults(read Mature people) and not a bunch of Killjoy Juvenile Delinquents who like to go around messing up everything for the rest of us.
I never fly on some of the other servers because of the settings and not to mention any names but wherever plane sets are the same for both sides, Icons on, where any countries markings are worn regardless of red or blue and complete open views are allowed, I don't like them so...I Dont Fly There, simple. So if you don't like Our server, Our settings,or Our rules,Then Go There!
and quit telling everybody you don't like it at Spits vs 109's because we only want good skilled pilots or those who aspire to be

Brain32
12-26-2006, 12:31 PM
If you can't accept criticzm then do not go public, put the password and fly only with people that think the same way as you do because if you have problems such as this:

joining the opposing team and crashing planes of limited amounts like the afore mentioned 25# Spit into the parked planes on the runway to cause even more havoc and reduce plane counts just to be a ***.
...then you are obviously not making it balanced in the eyes of general public.
I recommend offline, AI will put up with all kind of BS...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

This is my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Krt_Bong
12-26-2006, 12:43 PM
constructive Criticism is welcome just plain arrogant You suck because.. posts are not. everyone is welcome to fly at WoP all we ask is to follow the rules, taxi to the runway etc.. isnt much to ask and like I said people make comments on the forums just to stick a jab or two in is just ******ed. Sometimes not even having anything to do with the title of the post, just to put their penile opinions in when most cant even spell (those whose first language isnt english excluded), welcome to the club

slipBall
12-26-2006, 12:51 PM
Krt_Bong, with all due respect to you, and your concerns. I think something is pushing people away. I used to have trouble joining because the server was full. Now of late, except for a few of the regulars working on their stat's, there are very few on Spits vs 109. I believe the reason is limited aircraft, I am not against that, but if few join, what good is it. I would like to see a return to the old way, but that is just my opinion. I hope that you enjoy the holiday season >S<<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/orders.jpg

Krt_Bong
12-26-2006, 01:22 PM
I appreciate you comment I'm not trying to start trouble but realize that most of the maps have been done and re-edited as patches and plane sets change we try to get to all of them but as we all have real world lives this can be very time consuming and some of us would rather play than edit the little things we may have mistakes on. I dont have final say on what goes but sometimes for gameplay; exceptions and changes have to be made in order to keep load times down and playability up. A new server controller by Gennedich is being used and we still havent realized the full potential of that and now that the fervor of 46 is at a peak. So we are waiting for everyone to catch up again. Heck I would be on the server every moment I could except my girlfriend is getting Really annoyed at the amount of time I spend on my PC and not with her so too with Holidays. So if numbers are down think about all that is going on in your world and all the other pilots online and it makes more sense. I just reformatted and am back to 4.04 temporarily and cant even fly on my own server so I'm really annoyed that folks who arent aware of the whole story saying things that seem really petty.
Warbirds will evolve as always and we will be considering new ideas and if people who have flown there go to our site www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org) and post ideas for the things they like about the server and the kinds of missions they would like, we do often put up missions made by others and test them out. Ours is a friendly group and we only kick people mainly for major violations ie. flying with Wrong markings- 3 warns before Kick - We have no icons so having a Me-109 with British Markings is not allowed,
Team Killing - usually an apology is all we want, mistakes happen
Foul Language in chat - automatic
And if an Admin is in a bad mood it's because he can't play his game because he's having to play Admin all the time..
And the only reason there are so many rules is because we have to weed out all the Smacktards in order for the rest of us to get off the ground without all the aforementioned **** happening. Simple rules I think that were intended for fair realistic gameplay and any of the Adults who know their history and want realism can play here with no problem because we discuss options and ideas all the time just read our forums. RAF238th_Bong

GRYPHON_401Cdn
12-26-2006, 01:57 PM
The Warbirds of Prey servers (Spits/109s, Zekes/Wildcats) are great places to play - for precisely the same reasons that some folks complain about:

1) Full real, no icons, correct markings, no speedbar, no 'GPS' navigation by minimap, less than perfect weather, team comms, no airstarts, and a ground taxi pattern. All those add greatly to the immersion in such a way that those with real flying experience like to fly there.

2) Servers are administered to keep order. How much administration is required is constantly under debate. Generally, Spits admins take a harder line than Zekes admins on errant players.

3) Servers are paid for by subscribing members which basically means they have member rights and therefore have a voice that gets heard. Those that dont subscribe get to play and can volunteer helpful comment and feedback, but musnt expect to get things changed to the way they want.

4) Mission based scenarios, not a massive furball halfway between two bases 10 miles apart. There is a choice between the IL2SC (Spits) and FBD (Zekes) stats if you have a strong preference. The server admins balance the planesets based on the stats gathered from the missions, and only make changes when the stats back up the assertion that a map is unbalanced. I know, I've tried...

Bottom line: I'm a retired RAF pilot, and I've flown hundreds of hours this year on both servers and find them very enjoyable.

Manu-6S
12-26-2006, 03:33 PM
I was used to fly in your server and sometimes I still fly in Zekes/Wildcats. Good people there, formations and escorts anyday.

But something very pissing happened:
- B25 of '44 against Bf109F2 with the admin (or member) who said "Take the Bf110 with mk108 to take them out"... BF109F2 and mk108 in the same map, no really realistic.

- The week after the Ju88 addon in the night bombing map (the desert map with the tanks in the center of a valley, don't remember the name) Ju88 was added too: after 1-2 weeks the Ju88s were disappeared... why? He111 are easier to take out...

- The last that really pissed me: late invernal map, planeset with Spit9-25, late P47, P51D against Bf109K4 (not the C3 version) and Me262 (Yeah!!! finally... but "weirdly" it was the A-1a/U4... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif ). After all here the german mission was to destroy some convoys so the Me262 were needed to destry armoured ground target: "weirdly" there were clouds at 1000m or lower IIRC...

Me262 with 50mm cannon to take out enemy that you did't see unless that you decrease your speed among the Spits 25lbs...

That was my last time.

Sorry Krt_Bong, but you can't call these a balanced plansets/missions... it's not realistic too.. no way

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.diavolirossi.net/manu/banner.gif (http://www.diavolirossi.net)

Gunny1942
12-26-2006, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by HARRIER_401:
Low numbers are due to the ban happy admin. Also the stat program.

Is that correct? There are only 2 pilots on the ban list!

The first one that was banned was because he spoilt the game for everyone else by crashing 4 spits into the sandbags and other pilots taking off and kept shouting HE..HE. The ban was at the request of many other pilots who were fed up with his attitude. He then changed his name and came back in and did the same again. Needless to say, he got the same treatment. I dont think we need to ask anyone if the ban was justified.

The second one was because the pilot told 3 admins to F U. He came back into the game 3 times and said the same thing. No wonder he was banned. All because he wanted to fly his Spitfire with German markings.