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hauitsme
08-27-2004, 11:47 PM
Shan_Hackett wrote:

Attack of the killer Lifeboats

------------------------------

Now why didn't I remember that!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Grumble.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Doh.gif

Ain't this fun!
Hope we don't get sick of these too fast http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Vomit.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
08-28-2004, 02:00 AM
Microsoft Lifeboats XP
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lam.gif

RedTerex

hauitsme
08-28-2004, 02:19 AM
One of the funniest 'smilies' I've seen! (I like how it frowns after the second try)
Thank you for making me laugh. So much of what goes on in this world is so depressing, but I almost always have a grin when I'm done here for the day.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/CapSmile.gif

BTW, got anymore? Where did you get that one? I started collecting them since getting into posting here (got about 50 or so favorites now).http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Slay.gif

Lots here:Smilies (http://www.clicksmilies.com/)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

[This message was edited by hauitsme on Sat August 28 2004 at 01:49 AM.]

RedTerex
08-28-2004, 03:46 AM
Had that one for some time, your welcome to it.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/aniwink.gif

Its a gash one I had in my files, I dont collect them but If I find anymore I'll post em up....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/ninja.gif

RedTerex

Sockeye45
08-28-2004, 07:35 AM
If I don't see any lifeboats, I'll just assume that all hands went down with the ship http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
08-28-2004, 07:36 AM
Im glad we found another spicey addition to this topic. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here is another show,--

Sponge bob - Square Lifeboat
All in the lifeboat
Honey I shrank the lifeboat


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
08-28-2004, 07:38 AM
hauitsme, You need to find a tomato lookin smilie

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-28-2004, 09:03 AM
I'm off down the Olde Lifeboat now for a few lifeboats and Mild. So I'll post again later when I have lifeboated and feel more sober.

Lifeboats ARE a way of life, not just a pixel inclusion in a subsim !

RedTerex

SailorSteve
08-28-2004, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Sorry SailorSteve 'Silent Lifeboat' HAS alread been mentioned by me. LOL but as a consilation your " A Lifeboat Too Far' is both funny and er rather true as well! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

'Aces of the Lifeboats' anyone ?

RedTerex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm. I replied to this, but now it's gone, so I'll try again.

RedTerex, you're right about 'Silent Lifeboat'. It's a good thing I apologized beforehand.

As to 'Aces of the Lifeboats', how about 'Lifeboats of the Deep'?

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

DerKomet
08-28-2004, 12:43 PM
LOL what have you guys been smoking ???
Oh wait... HIGH CO2 LEVELS!!!! BLOW MAIN BALLAST TANKS! CRASH SURFACE NOWW DLING DLING DLING

\o/
you guys rock http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

hippy-dude
08-28-2004, 12:53 PM
Meet the lifeboats http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

IXD2
08-28-2004, 01:54 PM
And for something completely new, a quote from a session of Vampire the masquerade redemption RPG, somehow close to the topic:

"Storyteller: so, the Assamites are on the boat on the opposite side of the peer. What will you do?
Malkavian: Got any MGs?
ST: yes, you had found MG3 with lots of ammo. The problem is, you`re still in harbor and so are they. If you open fire, everyone will hear it.
Ventrue: Oh, ok. Got any silencer ?
ST: for the MACHINEGUN ? No.
M: So what can we do ?
ST: you tried to build a sub, using iron barrels and two bikes, right? So you can have a bike-powered sub with a silencer. A yellow submarine with a pink silencer ! "

Yes,I know everything written above IS rotten. Well...

hauitsme
08-28-2004, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
hauitsme, You need to find a tomato lookin smilie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the closest I've found so far, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sadist.gif but still not quite right to a Killer Tomatoe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

Pappy55
08-28-2004, 07:47 PM
christ this thread is still going...not that me resurecting it again helps but.. bah what the hell :P

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"Liutenant..what are yopu doing"
"as little as possible sir.."

RedTerex
08-29-2004, 04:04 AM
This thread appears to be 'unsinkable' but lifeboats have still been attached to the decks just incase !

RedTerex
08-29-2004, 04:08 AM
Oh and by the way, you guys in this thread are the first to see my all new signature.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
08-29-2004, 04:43 AM
Looks good! Redterex http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-29-2004, 04:59 AM
Thank you Taskforce http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, I thought that the 'Laughing Swordfish' might be apt for my avvy sig.
It was the emblem of the 9th flotilla that operated out of Brest in France.
It was of course also the emblem of U-96 in Das Boot.

It is in its original colour of green, the red coloured one is however more notable and famous or infamous however you wish to see it.

If any of you wish to copy this sig over onto your own avvy name as well you are welcome to do so.

And yes we are slightly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif
but what the hell, we are having fun in here and thats what its all about. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg

hauitsme
08-29-2004, 06:58 PM
DIVE, DIVE, DIVE! Just kidding!

Just ANOTHER NOTICE to all the NEW members that have joined recently. Welcome to the most viewed/posted-to topic in this forum! Why is it? That is up to you to decide.

PLEASE submit your vote on the first page of this topic, then spend some time reading through the rest. I know it's quite a lot, but it will give you a sense of what this is all about!
Quite a lot of arguments to think about. Now add your own! We'll fight you on this if you want to
(or even if you don't).http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/box1.gif
----------------------------------------------
The most recent stats:

147 votes so far

69%/102 YES Realistic-shootablehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sesaw.gif
18%/026 YES non-shootable
05%/007 NO none
08%/012 ?? don't care
----------------------------------------------

But will we get them? That's up to the DevTeam. Or the modders if we don't get them and they're able to add them. We'll find out if/when it happens(or doesn't).http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/scratchchin.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
08-30-2004, 01:40 AM
Yes indeed just check them votes out, I didnt think that this poll or thread would have lasted so long.

We are actualy looking at 95% of the people on this SH3 forum who would like to see lifeboats of some form or another.

leaving a mere 5% who do not want them...5% LOL your just a drop in the ocean!...you MAY need a lifeboat !http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/evilsmily.gif

The actual programming for Lifeboats to be included is in fact not that hard or time consuming for the dev-team to do. As they are basically small ships. All the programming is already there, it would just mean a smaller skin would be used over a smaller 'ship' which of course would be our lifeboat.

Debris is even being modelled into the game..thats great!, another added piece of realism to make the game look even better.
Now that that programming is already there for that why not just make a large piece of debris into a Liferaft and put a few pixel fellas clutching onto it..easy.

The programming is ALREADY there it just needs to be skinned up into our Lifeboats or liferafts.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/ohh-no.gif

I was going to quit this thread until the idea of 'Easter egg' inclusion was mentioned.

Whats an easter egg ? I hear some of you cry.

Secret programs hidden in a game, normaly activated by a secret keyboard command to 'open' that particular piece of programming up, I reply.

Viz, Lifeboats COULD be included in this way, for the descerning amongst us but not advertised as a general feature.

I would be happy with that...would you?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bit-fall-off.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Mon August 30 2004 at 03:43 AM.]

hauitsme
08-31-2004, 01:55 AM
MORE ARGUMENTS AVAILABLE: INQUIRE WITHIN
------------------------------------------------
There's another 'LIFEBOAT' argument/discussion going on and it's not about our favorite thing!

It's over at the 'Combat Save Options' thread.

And the DevTeam has already stated how the game save is going to be. Anytime, no enemies near.

And as was stated here, the DevTeam has already said what it is going to be. NO LifeBoats

END OF STORY ON BOTH ACCOUNTS!!!

But that doesn't matter!

So let's keep arguing/discussing them both!

Maybe they'll change their minds on both/this one/that one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
08-31-2004, 05:55 AM
Wheres this thread ?
Could you post a link up to it Please Hauitsme !

But if you have read that the Devs have said NO to lifeboats then, it will now be up to the modders.

Hhmm The Dev team are meggatastic, I wont knock em for not putting in lifeboats, they have their reasons I'm sure.

They decided to give us amongst other things a Dynamic Campaign, wahoooo! THAT was a fandabeedozi decision. There will be different designed interiors for each sub, superb wahooo!

There will be coastlines, subpens and walkable areas on the sub, there will be dynamic impact areas on ships...Hell the Devteam are still tops in my book.

We could start a devteam appreciation society thread !

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

hauitsme
08-31-2004, 06:12 AM
The Devteam said NO waaaaayyyyy back in the 1st Live chat.

When in combat save options and restrictions (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&s=400102&a=tpc&f=857101043&m=616107236&r=238107636#238107636)

Gentlemen, shake hands and come out fighting!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/box1.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/duel.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
08-31-2004, 11:35 AM
No, I'll come out fighting, box a few ears, THEN, I shall shake hands !

Salut ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

LostGunner
08-31-2004, 02:29 PM
"Lifeboat XP SP2" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

This is one lifeboat a lot of you would just love to sink http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

macker33
08-31-2004, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:

END OF STORY ON BOTH ACCOUNTS!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

still,you never know,and you wont find out unless you ask.

i
ll⬠r
/========ll======&gt; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

RedTerex
09-01-2004, 03:38 AM
we shall just have to sink the ships knowing that there will be no survivors at all.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/skull.gif

So every ship sunk equals between 20 deathshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/skull.gif (estimate) for a small merchant and 2500 deathshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/skull.gif (estimate) for a Battleship.

All their fates are automatically sealed upon torpedo impact.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/skull.gif

I wont be happy with that.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/rain-on.gif Was I happy with it in SH...no or SH2...no, I just lived with it and hoped one day they would get included.

I bet that at the back of every U-Boat commanders mind was the fact that YES the ship gets destroyed thats what I'm payed to do, but left open is the chance that many on board would man the lifeboats. So I'm not killing everyone.

Am I soft and shouldnt be playing WWII games?
NO! I love the action and drama, WWII Sims give.
Am I taking this too far, its just a game?
No, even in PC games I like to see people getting a chance, even pixel people!
Do I need to see a shrink?
Yes.
Would I be diagnosed Schitzophrenic with paranoic delusions of changed realities in a sureal sence of mental pyschodelia.
Not sure if I understand the question!

Yes I know its just a game there guys, but I like to get so immersed in them, well the good ones anyways.
Raven Shield, Call of Duty, Max Payne, Starfleet Academy, RTCW to name but a few of my favourites.

And this forum is great, but its on the internet and is that real? I mean is it.

This http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gifvideo might help explain.click the link below.
www.energyradio.fm/anm/templates/ftf.aspx?articleid=96&zoneid=5 (http://www.energyradio.fm/anm/templates/ftf.aspx?articleid=96&zoneid=5)

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Wed September 01 2004 at 03:00 AM.]

TASKFORCE1x1
09-01-2004, 09:07 AM
An easta egg was found in SHII- The Love Boat. Should be no reason to fail hope now. Possible to have some lifeboats. Maybe even an UFO. Some other sims like MSflight sim(cant remember the version) but there were very rare scenes where there was a UFO that flew by the horizon. I'll look for the link again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-01-2004, 09:32 AM
As always Taskforce your megga at looking on the bright side.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/optimist-sign.gif &lt;,Taskforce1x1

Whilst I can only attempt to live up to your cool insightshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/pessimist-sign.gif Your beer glass is half full, mine is half empty!

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-01-2004, 10:30 AM
I have modded SHii before and other games like Quake1,2 Battlefield1942, and more. I would be happy to add a lifeboat mod to SHIII. (one way or another) We could work on this together if you wish. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-01-2004, 11:04 AM
I'm sorry if this is a trite http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif but I managed to get a copy of the old Counter Strike De_Duste map for use in Rainbow Six 3 Raven Shield and I modded it up.

I can add static meshes into other peoples maps as long as a decent editor or SDK is available. As long as the modded map is for my own use or just to pass on to an aquaintance as opposed to putting it on a site, the original creators are generally not too fussed.

If you play RVS I can send you my modded version. where the Tango's have only got Ak-47s and Uzis, not FAMMAS or H&K's. Theres lots of exra static meshes in there too that I transposed from other RVS maps.

When SH3 is in our sticky mits, expect to hear from me again on this topic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-01-2004, 04:12 PM
I always look forward to this topic. Its good fun. Look at all the ways already this topic has been explored. Funny about the alternate movie titles for lifeboats. This is such a diverse topic now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-01-2004, 06:03 PM
This thread keeps dropping right down the threads list, then somebody posts something, I reply to it, you Taskforce1x1 reply to it, Others then contribute their posts and its back to the top again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

This has been happening now for...er...ages...LOL. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hey, I noticed that lifeboats have been quite well modelled on the new screenies of the DD,s.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/aniwink.gif
That makes it easier now to rip one of em off, spruce it up a bit and mod it back in there..on the sea.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/boucyblue.gif

Or maybe, just maybe if all 107 keys on your keyboard are hit in the right sequence...the lifeboat will fill full of relieved pixel fellas and be lowered in to see when their ship is sinking.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/merlinsmiley.gif ..but wht will the right sequence be.
cool if we had to spell out l.i.f.e.b.o.a.t.s.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

lonewulf44
09-01-2004, 06:38 PM
RedTerex, will you be creating a mod for SH3? If so, I'd like to get the lifeboat mod ASAP, after the game is released. If you start to work on the/a mod, I'd be glad to help in any way possible. I'm a novice programmer and I'm looking for something good to work on. Dont know how much help I'd be, but I'd be willing to do about anything!

Long Live Prussia!

RedTerex
09-02-2004, 02:37 AM
Your offer is welcome Lonewulf44 and I would certainly not turn down anyone such as yourself who wishes to help out.

I havent as yet modded any of the SH series but dont see a problem if there is a good editing kit.

The lifeboat as seen for example on the side of one of the DD's has already been programmed in.

hopefully it is a static mesh item that has been added to the ship and can therefore be isolated.

A car or truck that you come across in many games whereas the body of the car is one static mesh and the wheels are another and they are 'glued' together to make the whole.

Below is a pic of a wire-frame static mesh car from a Rainbow six-3 Raven Shield map, viewed in plan mode, notice how the F/N/S wheel on the righthand side has been isolated, (coloured torquose) and can then be copied, moved elswhere etc. Hopefully our lifeboat will be meshed in the same
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/car-mesh-wheel.jpg

I will have to have have a look at how this has been done in SH3. The problem that I will encounter is how to incorporate the lifeboat into the game itself, which is easy enough to do, but some programming will be required for its own individual 'actor class' movements, as it will be a 'real' object rather than a static object, thats where other help will be needed.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Thu September 02 2004 at 03:41 AM.]

TASKFORCE1x1
09-02-2004, 08:37 AM
Its great how we can Mod almost any game now. I think Moddability keeps games alive. Quake2 is still running strong,Battlefield1942 & Vietnam also. Hopefully SHIII's engine is dynamic enough to accept many changes. Novalogic seems to use the same engines over and over. Deltaforce and Armored Fist seems to be run off the same engine. I think it was you Redterex that mentioned about the boxes floating could be changed to become rafts or lifeboats after a ship sinks. Would be neat add that effect. I'm curious now. I wonder if the boxes in the water could be shot at to make them sink. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
09-02-2004, 08:40 AM
Hey have you seen the Battlefield Pirates mod? The driveable lizards is the funniest thing Ive ever seen! Its supposed to be the jeep. The sounds of a jeep's motor is still there. The lizard snaps at people with its snappy jaws. Too funny! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-02-2004, 09:54 AM
That Lizzard sounds like a classic 'over skin' model with animated programming for better effect.

The debris might be shootable, good question, I wonder ?

I've lost my modded maps for RVShttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/rain-on.gif must have happen during a re-install, I thought I seperated them from the main folder..apparently not.

So I will be busy for the next few days re-modding some maps back to a better level of playability...again!

best laugh was when I put in a swimming pool, with beach balls, parasols etc into a desert battle area scenerio, Then I put a verannda over it with shootable glass...lost that nowhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/ohh-no.gif cant be bothered to re-do it.

But anyway guys Yes the poss should be there to change slight incedencies in SH3&lt;&lt;,it is hoped.

Exploding oil drums floating after a tanker is sunk would be a good one to mod. one shot at them&gt;&gt;a hit&gt;&gt;BOOooOOMM!

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

hauitsme
09-03-2004, 02:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
I think it was you Redterex that mentioned about the boxes floating could be changed to become rafts or lifeboats after a ship sinks. Would be neat add that effect. I'm curious now. I wonder if the boxes in the water could be shot at to make them sink. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe it was my post on Pg.7 of this thread that suggested those(please DO correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to plagiarize).

As to the modding, have you read my post here?
Modding the game - what everyone wants (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=857101043&m=398106206)

By the way Red,thanks for all the new smilies you've been adding since I started adding new ones. I did find where that one came from and there were dozens of them there(almost all the ones you've been posting).I believe this is the first, then second, .......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/lam.gif ,http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/ninja.gif
Am still looking for a KillerTomatoe thoughhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sadist.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
09-03-2004, 03:50 AM
Well I did put a tommy tamotoe up for you, this one&gt;&gt;http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/tommytomtomato.gif not a 'killer' tomatoe but the hunt its still on.

And your welcome to copy any of the smilies I use and use em yourself.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-03-2004, 05:25 AM
I just heard the B-52's on the local radio station and I just thought of something.

Songs? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

How about it? Anyone have any songs that we could sing if in a lifeboat at sea?

Here's one-----------

If you see a faded Lifeboat by the side of the road that says
15 miles to the... Lifeboat! Lifeboat yeah
I'm headin' down the Atlantic highway, lookin' for the Lifeboat getaway
Heading for the Lifeboat getaway, Lifeboat getaway,
I got me a Lifeboat, it's as big as a whale and we're headin' on down
To the Lifeboat
I got me a Lifeboat, it seats about 20
So hurry up and bring your Lifeboat money

The Lifeboat is a little old place where we can get together
Life baby, Lifeboat bay-bee.
Life baby, that's where it's at, Ooo Life baby, that's where it's at

Sign says.. Woo... stay away fools, 'cause Life rules at the Lifeboat!
Well it's set way back in the middle of a pond,
Just a funky old boat and I gotta get back

Glitter on the mattress
Glitter on the highway
Glitter on the front porch
Glitter on the hallway

The Lifeboat is a little old place where we can get together
Lifeboat baby! Lifeboat, that's where it's at!
Huggin' and a kissin', dancin' and a lovin', wearin' next to nothing
Cause it's hot as an oven
The whole boat shimmies! The whole boat shimmies when everybody's
Movin' around and around and around!
Everybody's movin', everybody's groovin' baby!
Folks linin' up outside just to get down
Everybody's movin', everybody's groovin' baby
Funky little boat! Funky little boat!

Hop in my Lifeboat, it's as big as a whale and it's about to set sail!
I got me a Lifeboat, it seats about 20
So hurry up and bring your Lifeboat money.

Bang bang bang on the door baby! Knock a little louder baby!
Bang bang bang on the door baby! I can't hear you
Your what?... Life boat, rusted!

Lifeboat, baby Lifeboat!
Life baby, that's where it's at
Huggin' and a kissin', dancin' and a lovin' at the Lifeboat

Hows that one for a funny!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-03-2004, 05:49 AM
That wont make the Hit Parade.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/oh-noo-2.gif The B52's would just 'Hit' you and 'Parade' you.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/oh-noo-2.gif LoL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-03-2004, 08:24 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-03-2004, 10:17 AM
Poetry, prose, verse and adage, may be the solution to all out frustrations.

A lifeboat, a lifeboat, my Kingdom for a Lifeboat.

For the want of a nail, the shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe the horse was lost, for the want of a horse, the battle was lost, for the want of a battle the lifeboat was lost all for the sake of a nail.

Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Lifeboat ?

Nay, I say to unto thee, nay, for as I see it my heart, my asperation, my reason, all is well as long as I foresee in my midst a Lifeboat!

row, row , row your lifeboat, gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily lifeboats is just a dream !

Freinds, countrymen, Romans, lend me your lifeboats.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-03-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Lifeboat ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
09-04-2004, 11:13 PM
A song you say!
How about this: The Beatles 'HELP!'
-----------------------------------------------
Help, I need some LIFEBOATS,
Help, not just any LIFEBOATS,
Help, you know I need some, help.

When I was younger, so much younger than today,
I never needed anybody's help in any way.
But now my ship is gone, I'm not so self assured,
Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors.(abandoning ship)

Help me if you can, I'm goin down
And I do appreciate you being round.(LIFEBOATS that is)
Help me, get my feet back on the ground,
Won't you please, please help me.(Please DevTeam)
-----------------------------------------------


The latest count so far gentlemen:

155 votes total
___________________
105 shootable
028 non-shootable
009 none
013 don't care

-----------------------------------------------

I keep seeing this thread dropping to the bottom(I found it on the second page a couple of times)due to the apparent lack of reading skills of some people posting a new thread that has been answered in at least 5 others. Sorry, just had to complain! It also appears except only 'occasionally' that only the three of us (RedTerex, TaskForce1x1, hauitsme) are posting here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif Oh well, I for one won't stop! Just keep pointing NEW people here whenever you can (always tell them to start on the first page and VOTE!). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/vampire.gif Halloween is coming!(celebrated in the U.S. Oct 31)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
09-05-2004, 02:22 AM
Yes folks welcome to....
The Redterex, Taskforce and Hauitsme Showhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/byebye-or-hello.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

Drebbel
09-05-2004, 03:44 AM
I guess neither of these 105 wannabee war criminals did read the dev-team answer to this question http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
09-05-2004, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:

Help, I need some LIFEBOATS,
Help, not just any LIFEBOATS,
Help, you know I need some, help.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HeHe! Those are good too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-05-2004, 11:16 AM
Yes indeed folks and now for another Beatles classic...

Yesterday all my lifeboats seamed so far away now I need a Lifeboat to hide away oh I believe in yesterday,
I said something wrong now I long for li-ifeboooats lifeboats,
Suddenly I'm not half the man I used to be Oh I believe in Li-ifeboats...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

SailorSteve
09-05-2004, 12:38 PM
RedTerex, I've been a Beatles fan since 1964, and I'm totally insult....ins.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Those are great!

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

RedTerex
09-05-2004, 02:33 PM
Another Beatles Classic rendered here exclusively for SH3 forums.
Words and lyrics originaly by Lennon and McCartny and altered for levity by me.

Picture yourself in a lifeboat on a river,
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly,
A girl with lifeboats for eyes.
Cellophane flowers of yellow and green,
Towering over your head.
Look for the girl with the lifeboats for eyes,
And she's gone.
Lucy in the sky with lifeboats
Lucy in the sky with lifeboats
Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where lifeboat survivors eat marshmellow pies,
Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers,
That grow so incredibly high.
Lifeboat survivors appear on the shore,
Waiting to sail you away.
Climb in the back with your head in the clouds,
And you're gone in a lifeboat away
Lucy in the sky with lifeboats
Lucy in the sky with lifeboats
Lucy in the sky with lifeboats
Picture yourself on a train in a station,
With plasticine porters with looking glass ties,
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstyle,
The girl with the lifeboats for eyes.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-06-2004, 07:17 PM
Funny thing comes to mind;

Life modes of transportation....


-Lifevest
-Lifepreserver
-Lifeboat
-Liferaft
-lifesavers - (oops thats candy) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-07-2004, 07:18 AM
One of the greatest loss of lives at sea was that of April 15 1912 with the sinking of THE TITANIC.

The loss of life was mainly attributed to the fact that there was not enough LIFEBOATS !

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

hauitsme
09-07-2004, 10:35 PM
There were plenty, what are you talking about??http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/scratchchin.gif

They just weren't included!!!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/crazy2.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
09-08-2004, 04:24 AM
LOL, I'll have those two new emotties, scratch chin and biggly boggly eyed thingy LOLhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Big-thumsup.gif
Wheres the one of the Smiley bashin his head on the wall..that one creased me up man !

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-08-2004, 10:15 AM
Redterex, ever see southpark? That smiley reminds me of the episode with Kyle and his clone became oversized.

Chomp, Chomp Pachooweey chomp.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-09-2004, 02:03 AM
I saw southpark maybe once, so I'm not too familiar with the characters.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/in-a-box.gif

A little smiley in a lifeboat would be the absolute topshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/big-grin.gif and with like billions of webpages and millions of animators around the entire world as the web covers(fantastic realy)there must be one somewhere.

For any topic, picture etc I always believe that its not a question of "is it on the web" but a question of "Where is it on the web"http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lam.gif

Home PC's and the Internet, lets face it, they rock n roll.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Big-thumsup.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

Seifer1921
09-09-2004, 10:03 AM
YES. include life-boats with full realism.

Strength and Honor

TASKFORCE1x1
09-09-2004, 04:06 PM
If people is always concerned about other people shooting at the lifeboats then I propose to change all the crew members of all ships to Lemmings. Lemmings are ment to die and get shot at. Fill the lifeboat with lemmings instead so we dont need to worry about people complaining about "If someone shoots at lifeboats".

Lemmings the way to go. Anyways they come already with a blue uniform so kinda-sortof they look like sailors. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Sockeye45
09-09-2004, 04:35 PM
Like a sailor once said, quote, ain't that a hole in the boat.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

KL.Schuhart
09-09-2004, 04:51 PM
I think the court martial thing is a little far fetched.

But the actual possibility to shoot lifeboats should be ingame I think. In IL-2 it is possible to shoot down the parachute of an enemy pilot, and watch him plummets to the ground in your fly by view.

I mean, a torpedo kill kills/cripples a ship, and not necessarily all the crew on it. It were nice if that touch of realism were there + the option to shoot it or not. Why not implement it without going into programming fussy details (blood, warcrimes, court martial, seeing the crew get into the lifeboat etc...)

KL. Schuhart

RedTerex
09-09-2004, 05:53 PM
Unfortunatley its when politics http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bigglyboggly.gif get involved in a PC game that things like our Lifeboat request get veto'd.

And not to include them in the sea after we sink a ship is ridiculous, lamehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/sleepystatic.gif and asinine where realism is concerned.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

KL.Schuhart
09-09-2004, 05:57 PM
Completely agree with RedTerex

hauitsme
09-10-2004, 12:30 AM
Question H2 atSubSim SH3 Forum FAQ (http://207.44.164.159/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=202680#202680) has the DevTeam saying 'The only limitation is the omission of lifeboats, as Ubisoft didn‚'t want to bring themselves into an ethical dilemma if players started to shoot at survivors'. With that logic, then how can there be Troop Ships, Hospital Ships, or even Passenger Liners to be included. What about the 'innocent' people on board? No shelling anything on shore.
You might kill someone! Don't shoot at that Transport. You might kill someone! How can they (the DevTeam) 'bring themselves into an ethical dilemma' when they aren't playing? I am, you are, they aren't!! Why should 'they' impose their 'ethics' on someone else? What are they doing producing a WAR game?

What a load of http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/knight.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

hauitsme
09-10-2004, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
A little smiley in a lifeboat would be the absolute tops... ...there must be one somewhere.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Been going back through my collection. This is the only one I've got, and how I forgot about it I don't know! Found it along with 70 others.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/think.gif

Now we'll have something just for this thread till a better one is found (there HAS to be more somewhere out there).http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif COOL, YEA !!!

By the way everyone. Don't forget to VOTE !!!
171 people have so far, so get yours in too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
09-10-2004, 03:57 AM
ROFLMAOhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gifYou found onehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/white-boggle-eyes.gif LOL!! waheey.your thehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/indianchief.gif of the emotties!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/big-grin.gif

Also the horse one is meggafantasteeko, ROFL where the hell did you get that one from LOLhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/applaus.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

RedTerex
09-10-2004, 04:10 AM
This emottiehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lifeboat-titanic.gif HAS to be our official lifeboat page mascot now ! LOL its so cool.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Big-thumsup.gif

Haha even the sea is modelled properly if you look carefully there is even a small splash from the front of the lifeboathttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lifeboat-titanic.gif , yes I know some will say that its a lifeBELT not a boat but hey you cant have everything can you Devteam LOL.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

AnalysisMan
09-10-2004, 06:07 AM
So, the answer is NO. The official website states it clearly - with two good reasons http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
09-10-2004, 07:34 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

No lifeboats. Bah. Oh well. Now we ask for lifepreservers? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

u71zurek
09-10-2004, 07:37 AM
Whether when I sails out on patrol on roads in harbour orchestra will play

Shan_Hackett
09-10-2004, 08:41 AM
I can understand the dev'teams' view point, but still, it's a dissapointing blow.

God bless Lifeboats.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

RedTerex
09-10-2004, 09:42 AM
A PARODY of the Devhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/cowboy.gif Team:

We dont think that it is ethical to have lifeboats simulated in SH3.

When you torpedo any ships there will be NO survivors, Subsequently ALL hands WILL be lost on every ship sunk, be it an ocean liner, troop ship, tanker or neutral innocent merchant. We find this to be ethical.

Deck guns may be used to blow up parts of the ship to devasting effect killing all hands onboard in a shell explosions vicinity. We find this to be ethical.

There will be NO parachutes from ANY airplanes shot down ALL pilots and airplane crews WILL die. We find this to be ethical.

War is ethical and nice and we dont want you to think that it is not nice, it is full of glory and valor, heroes and Chivalrous Gentlemen.

Having lifebaots that MAY be shot up by players of SH3 is not nice and therefore will NOT be included.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/horseploppy.gif

Please note:The above is a paradoy (a send-up) of the Devhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/cowboy.gif team and in no way reflects their real aims, ambitions and asperations for the game of SH3, whatever that may be.

It does tend to make one think why they actually decided to create a WAR game for, where people get killed. The way I see it, they get killed because its...er...er...well...War I suppose.

Anyway SH3 The Censored SubSim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Fri September 10 2004 at 08:59 AM.]

Monkeywho
09-10-2004, 10:22 AM
LOL Thanks for the great little ditty. Aside from the actual horrors of war, in the context of this current game I found it was a good laugh. I really do hope life boats get included, but I know it looks grim right now.

Very creative Red Terex! Great job!

Peace

RedTerex
09-10-2004, 12:30 PM
Well there we have it on Fridays Question.
There will be NO lifeboats included in SH3.
My responce is this (also posted on another thread)

I have lobbied in vain for this feature even with a very succesful Poll on the topic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lifeboat-titanic.gif
The results of which I proudly present here for you and let the figures speak for themselves.

Results (172 votes counted so far):

67%
YES. include life-boats with full realism.

17%
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at

6%
NO. I dont want them.

10%
I'm not fussed either way.

Well Devteam it will not just be myself who has to understand your desision not to include lifeboats but 84% of your community as well and 84% of anything is a lot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lifeboat-titanic.gif

On the side of resources and CPU power I would not like to see the game abridged or consised in any way to accommodate lifeboats, so on that angle and its a nice anglehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/aniwink.gif I will agree.

Lifeboats would not have been an essential part of the game in any way but just a nice feature to complete the overall excercise of sinking vessels in a graphical type of epilogue.

The moral dillemmas are up to the player as I see it and not up to the game developer. The lifeboat feature could have been activated on a parental or violence control feature.

I'm sadhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/rain-on.gif to see this feature has not made it. I will still purchase the game though and I still hope to enjoy the game.

I would like it known that I still thank you the Devteam for all the efforts and hard work that you are putting into SH3.

RedTerex

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sat September 11 2004 at 03:53 AM.]

finchOU
09-10-2004, 12:34 PM
all that posting for nothing! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif HAHA...

i'm indifferent on the subject.....but come on guys....17 pages of posts about lifeboats???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

hauitsme
09-10-2004, 07:34 PM
Of course 17 pages on this, the MOST REQUESTED item/feature wanted in the game other than Dynamic Campaign was announced to be added (by input from people like us!).

But this thread WILL continue to grow (probably by those of us who are DEDICATED DIE-HARDS) so don't give up the ship!(you'll DIE if you do since there is no way to save yourself or others!). Soon perhaps we'll find out WHAT they are going to spend 'available resources (development time and processor power)' on.

As to their statement:'It is our choice not to do it and we expect you to understand our decision', when someone say's to me they 'expect it', the first thing that comes into my head is the threat 'we expect it, or else!'. Perhaps they should have 'asked' us to understand. Maybe that wouldn't have sounded threatening.

Here's a question or two. What about the crewmen that gets washed overboard during a storm? How can they be saved? Or are they automatically killed/drowned? Why can't we save them? What about the injured? How are they to be treated? Their not? I see, we get to cruise around in our patrol area for weeks while the injured crew slowly dies/suffers from his injuries. COOL. I take it then 'the sensitive, moral aspect of including survivors that can be killed or left to die' only applies to the enemy, not our own crew. COOL.

(Taskforce1x1): Can our crew die and if so what happens to them? Do they just disappear?
(DevTeam): Yes, they may die during combat. The dead crew members will remain at their location. You will need to carry them down bellow deck or bury them at sea.
What happens to them if we leave them at their location? Do they just sit there and rot/stink? What if that station is the deckgun or AA gun, you leave them there, then you dive? Are they still there when you surface? What happens if they die at the guns during a battle? Do we HAVE to put them below or spend the time 'burying' them, or can we just throw them overboard? Sounds like fun!

Come on in, the water's fine!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sadist.gif Just make sure you can swim-there's no saving anyone allowed!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
09-11-2004, 04:34 AM
Another angle about 'moral dillemmas'
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/sofa-spy.gif
Re: Quote Devteam "...One other reason is the sensitive, moral aspect of including survivors that can be killed or left to die. It is our choice not to do it and we expect you to understand our decision..."

Hmm they seam to be a bit behind the times with the entire topic.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/think-raindrop.gif
Quote"...survivors that can be killed or left to die...."
Well did we not discuss this on this thread when we said that Phantom lifeboats would be OK as opposed to nothing at all.
What is meant by Phantom lifeboats are craft that CANNOT be shot up.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lifeboat-titanic.gif
As for leaving survivors to die, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/grimreaper.gif this is not always 100% correct.Many times a U-Boat would pull up alongside Lifeboat survivors and give them help, directions, foodstufffs, water even hand-drawn maps to help save them.
This could have been accommodated into an 'optional' video scene of some 15 seconds long, easy peasy.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/big-grin.gif

Quote DevTeam "...we expect you to understand our decision..."
I didnt like the sound of that, it could be interperated as 'think as we think, say as we say, do as we do' Yes indeed I picked up on that one straight away. My reply is " best not to expect anything !"

What? Am I a dossile back country boy of 8 years old, I mean come on I bet SH3 will be a 2 disc set if anything with the second CD having only 40% data on it, bit more or a bit less, leaving a whopping amount to put all this extra programming onto it.

These programming guys aka the DevTeam are cleverhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/old.gif ooh yes they are clever state of the art programmers, it would not be a difficult task for them to do. They just havent looked at all of the angles that were covered in this threadhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/ohh-no.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sat September 11 2004 at 04:03 AM.]

TASKFORCE1x1
09-11-2004, 07:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by finchOU:
all that posting for nothing! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif HAHA...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


finchOU,
That hurt our feelings. LOL(sarcasm) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

All,
Oh well at least maybe there is hope in SHIV when by that time programming and computers get even more better. If the game was written in assembly code it would work. Not to mention the data would be smaller.

All,
We wanted to show we want to do the right thing and save people but now the game needs to have a "MA" rating because its all out war and bloody hell. (joke)


Redterex,
I would be satisfied if we can get low graphic people like stick figures or smilies that wont lag the game graphically. Smilies in the water...Imagine.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-11-2004, 09:29 AM
:THE PIXEL FELLAS:
Brought to you by RedTerex
In assocciation with the Lifeboat Poll
Presented by UbiSoft Forums
Produced and Directed by RedTerex

Pixxy: The sea looks and feels very rough today.
Pixin: Yeah is sure does Pixxy.
Pixxy: I hope the ship holds out.
Pixin: Yeah me too.
Pixxy: we got very bad seas and U-Boats to worry about.
Pixin: Yeah we sure do LOL
Pixxy: But thats not all.
Pixin: Waddya mean, thats not all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif?
Pixxy: Well see them lifeboats up there.
Pixin: Yeah, I see em, So what?
Pixxy: Well they are just stuck on images, we cant use em.
Pixin: Waddya mean we cant use em, LOL are you nuts of cause we can use em, why if the ship starts to sink we ' man the lifeboats' and we are saved. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Pixxy: Well I hate to tell ya this but we cant use em, the game makers say so, they are just stuck-on for visual effect on the side of our ship. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
Pixin: Oh dont talk stupid. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Pixxy: No its true I tell ya, we cant use em.
Pixin: But what happens if we sink. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
Pixxy: Well we drown. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
Pixin: Hell No, no way you godda be kiddin me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif!
Pixxy: Wish I was Pixxin, bit I aint. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
Pixin: We godda do something before its too late, I mean c'mon they wanna murder us. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Pixxy: Lets do what we did in SH2 when there were no lifeboats in that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Pixin: What did we do? remind me and quick.
Pixxy: Well we made ships stand on end and made them sail over land and stuff. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif
Pixin: Oh yeah, now I remember, hey ! good thinking it may be the only way to save ourselves. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
Pixxy. Yeah we got no choice we have to bug it up. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Pixin: dont worry, our lives depend on it, get to work on it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif
Pixxy: sure will Pixin I sure will. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

LostGunner
09-11-2004, 03:01 PM
I got the lifeboat blues http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Monkeywho
09-11-2004, 03:09 PM
A score for PC! BOO!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Still we can have hope.

Life Boats in SH4!

Life Boats in SH4!

Life Boats in SH4!

Or better yet . . Life Boats in SH3 Add-on!

Peace http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Prof.Wizard
09-11-2004, 05:15 PM
Life boats might have been interesting, but I understand the moral implications of such an addition so I guess I concur with the developers' decision.

It would be an act of 'gore' to machine-gun with the AA cannon the poor bastards on their life-boats. AND ANYONE WHO SAYS HE WON'T IS A LIAR AND BEAST (SINCE IF HE DOESN'T SHOOT THEM HE ABANDONS THEM IN MID OCEAN)...

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

hauitsme
09-11-2004, 06:51 PM
Perhaps you had better rephrase that! If this was not an electronic media and we were 'in person', you would be laying on the floor in a BLOODY mess. Good thing it isn't the 'Wild West' in the 1800's either. Would have ended with one of us DEAD.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/ghost.gif

WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU TO INSULT ME (OR ANYONE ELSE) BY CALLING ME/US A LIAR!!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/lightning.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

[This message was edited by hauitsme on Sat September 11 2004 at 09:59 PM.]

Erich Hartmann
09-11-2004, 09:37 PM
Add on will be cool (since it would not make it in the game).

RedTerex
09-12-2004, 03:48 AM
Hi ProfWizard, you say Quote:
"...IF HE DOESN'T SHOOT THEM HE ABANDONS THEM IN MID OCEAN..."

I have already covered this aspect, when I said Quote:
"...As for leaving survivors to die, this is not always 100% correct.Many times a U-Boat would pull up alongside Lifeboat survivors and give them help, directions, foodstufffs, water even hand-drawn maps to help save them..."

And I would like to add here that many lifeboats were picked up by their own side, because they were more often than not in regular shipping lanes.
Or they were picked up by enemy warships and taken into captivity.
In fact I cant recall ever hearing about lifeboat survivors starving to death so that only a lifeboat full of dead bodies was found.

If you can find a legitimate story to nullify this, then please do post up the bona fida link to it, for review and disussion here.

The Atlantic, Pacific or indeed any of the oceans were all constantly patrolled or used by axis-allies, planes, ships, subs and dont forget the PT, MTB and E-boats that were here there and everywhere. So the chances of being seen in your lifeboat out there was quite possible NOT impossible.
Admittedly it may take a week or even longer before they were found but they were still alive and in my book that beats being dead.

Chances of survival in a lifeboat were not it is admitted 100% becuase there are never any guarantees..it was WAR, nasty horrible WAR, but being in a lifeboat was better than burning to death or drowning or suffocating to death in oil laden seas, or getting eaten by sharks (Hell man you would prey to be in a lifeboat then huh!) or just plain going down with the ship !

Also I dont like someone insinuating that I or anyone else in this thread lieshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Grumble.gif , this is not the case. Until proven otherwise, everyone on this forum speaks out the truth as they see it or feel it, they have no reason to lie.

Unfortunately we have actualy had people who have said YES they would shoot up lifeboats, to the majority this is negative, abhorrent and disgusting. BUT they said it...aloud...in here...no lies needed. By saying these things they seriously jeopordised our wish for lifeboats http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

If I say I would not shoot up lifeboats and if anyone else says they would not shoot up lifeboats then they speak the truth.&lt;&lt;full stop!

I suggest that you familiarise yourself with this topic by taking the time to read through ALL of the posts in this thread.

RedTerex

btw Hauitsme this emottiehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/ghost.gif LOL, best one to date.
! I wet myself laughin at that one !
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sun September 12 2004 at 03:13 AM.]

TASKFORCE1x1
09-12-2004, 09:38 AM
Maybe in a mod we can swap crates that float to become lifeboats filled with wet people. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Xanthippus
09-12-2004, 11:22 AM
All good comments RedTerex, but while not wanting to dispute them i would like to put a slightly different 'spin' on one of them. Namely the reason why lifeboats with dead men were seldom found can be partially explained by the fact that rough seas would inevitably dispose of a small boat with dead men in it. A process that could well be repeated as boats neared deserted coastal areas.

Then there is of course the 'unknown', just like we do not know the story of so many men who have died, that does not mean to say that it 'did not happen' to a 'significant' degree, (ala the lack of boats with dead sailors).

RedTerex
09-12-2004, 12:19 PM
Ya, hence my post of...."Chances of survival in a lifeboat were not it is admitted 100% becuase there are never any guarantees..."

Chances of survival in a ship going from NY to Britain also had the same chances and guarantees !

I thank you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

Xanthippus
09-12-2004, 12:28 PM
ya, just a "half empty - half full" kind of difference in our perspectives.

Flanker15
09-12-2004, 06:54 PM
Why doesn't someone just make a mod that puts in life boats after the game is released im sure someone could do it and you could have mods for the things you wanted in the game but weren't put in.

LostGunner
09-12-2004, 08:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flanker15:
Why doesn't someone just make a mod that puts in life boats after the game is released im sure someone could do it and you could have mods for the things you wanted in the game but weren't put in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thats probably what will happen since the Dev Team suddenly developed "Stubbornitis" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif which btw is quite contagious I hear. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif I even get it myself from time to time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

But what the hey they are still the best Dev Team on the planet. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

hauitsme
09-12-2004, 11:16 PM
I had a dream the other night. I woke up in a sweat.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sweaty.gif The DevTeamhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/pope.gif said no lifeboats http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif because of 'the sensitive, moral aspect of including survivors that can be killed or left to die'.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/ghost.gif Then I realized what they said made no sense.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/banghead.gif I remembered they had mentioned somewhere about something called 'realism'. It hit me like a ton of bricks.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/bricks.gif No, that can't be! Are they alien?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/alien.gif So I went back to bed to sleep off this nightmare. Perhaps in the morninghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sunny.gif everything would be alright.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

Prof.Wizard
09-13-2004, 01:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Hi ProfWizard, you say Quote:
"...IF HE DOESN'T SHOOT THEM HE ABANDONS THEM IN MID OCEAN..."

I have already covered this aspect, when I said Quote:
"...As for leaving survivors to die, this is not always 100% correct.Many times a U-Boat would pull up alongside Lifeboat survivors and give them help, directions, foodstufffs, water even hand-drawn maps to help save them..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I read what you had to say and I just didn't agree with that. Face it. The "fact" you quote that U-Boats would surface to help prisoners is rather the exception than the rule. If you need more about it, just read about Donitz's Nurnberg trial and the accuses.

Actually the policy of collecting the few survivors (or giving them aid) was completely abandoned per orders of the Kriegsmarine after an Allied aircraft tried to target the surfaced submarine which was doing exactly that. I don't recall when exactly happened this incident, sometime mid-war, but you can research about it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And I would like to add here that many lifeboats were picked up by their own side, because they were more often than not in regular shipping lanes.
Or they were picked up by enemy warships and taken into captivity.
In fact I cant recall ever hearing about lifeboat survivors starving to death so that only a lifeboat full of dead bodies was found.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True enough, many boats were salvaged. But there WERE victims of lost life-boats, especially if there was a major storm coming up.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If you can find a legitimate story to nullify this, then please do post up the bona fida link to it, for review and disussion here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you think no storms actually ever hit the Atlantic, post your research here.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The Atlantic, Pacific or indeed any of the oceans were all constantly patrolled or used by axis-allies, planes, ships, subs and dont forget the PT, MTB and E-boats that were here there and everywhere. So the chances of being seen in your lifeboat out there was quite possible NOT impossible.
Admittedly it may take a week or even longer before they were found but they were still alive and in my book that beats being dead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not everyone can live without water for a week, especially if you are already at the brink of dehydration. You underestimate the sea.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Chances of survival in a lifeboat were not it is admitted 100% becuase there are never any guarantees..it was WAR, nasty horrible WAR, but being in a lifeboat was better than burning to death or drowning or suffocating to death in oil laden seas, or getting eaten by sharks (Hell man you would prey to be in a lifeboat then huh!) or just plain going down with the ship !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, so I don't see why you want them in the submarine game. Do you want sharks simulated as well? Give me a break.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If I say I would not shoot up lifeboats and if anyone else says they would not shoot up lifeboats then they speak the truth.&lt;&lt;full stop!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've been an avid player of IL-2 Sturmovik and I can guarantee you shooting parachuters has been a HUGE issue. Of course parachutes in a combat flight simulator is paramount to understand when an enemy combantant has abandoned his bird, instead in Silent Hunter III I just don't see that..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I suggest that you familiarise yourself with this topic by taking the time to read through ALL of the posts in this thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I would suggest you to (1) do some probing before insulting me cause you don't know my age, background, etc (2) stop being fanatic about life-boats, it's so darn trivial (3) come to terms with the fact that most people will just surface to finish the poor lads with the deck gun.

Now. Unless life-boats become extremely well simulated (as small boats of their own), they play a role in war (AI targets you if spotted by enemy aircraft), and/or it is possible to interact with them in some way (where is the rest of the convoy?)... I find them TRIVIAL and I'm happy the devs haven't invested resources on the matter.

For me it's much more paramount to have a real (non-interactive) scene for example when you approach a 'Milk Cow' or a sub pen. If I want to see somewhere detail is there, not how many crew life-boats I can gore...

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

Prof.Wizard
09-13-2004, 01:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Perhaps you had better rephrase that! If this was not an electronic media and we were 'in person', you would be laying on the floor in a BLOODY mess. Good thing it isn't the 'Wild West' in the 1800's either. Would have ended with one of us DEAD.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/ghost.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOOOOOOOOOL. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU TO INSULT ME (OR ANYONE ELSE) BY CALLING ME/US A LIAR!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No worries, I didn't try to offend you. I only wanted to show you that adding life-boats will do exactly what the devs are afraid of. UNfocus the players from what this game is about. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

RedTerex
09-13-2004, 08:25 AM
-----------------------------------------------
ProfWizard Quote:
"...The "fact" you quote that U-Boats would surface to help prisoners..."
-----------------------------------------------
Er..No I didnt, are you sure you have read this thread properly?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/scratchchin.gif where did I say that U-boats would surface?
-----------------------------------------------
ProfWizard Quote:
"...Actually the policy of collecting the few survivors (or giving them aid) was completely abandoned per orders of the Kriegsmarine after an Allied aircraft tried to target the surfaced submarine which was doing exactly that. I don't recall when exactly happened this incident, sometime mid-war, but you can research about it.
.."
-----------------------------------------------
Dont have to, already know about it.
It was the Laconia Incident a one time tragedy..
link below to further you knowledge on the subject
www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=33 (http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=33)
-----------------------------------------------
ProfWizard Quote:
"...But there WERE victims of lost life-boats, especially if there was a major storm coming up..."
-----------------------------------------------
Well of course there were victims, I didnt say that there werent.
-----------------------------------------------
ProfWiizard Quote:
"...Do you want sharks simulated as well? Give me a break.."
-----------------------------------------------
I didnt say that either!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bash-head-wall.gif
-----------------------------------------------
Profwizard Quote:
"...do some probing before insulting me cause you don't know my age, background, etc.."
-----------------------------------------------
Likewise !http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/aniwink.gif
-----------------------------------------------
ProfWizard Quote:
"...stop being fanatic about life-boats, it's so darn trivial..."
-----------------------------------------------
Hmmm, ok ya, This IS a thread actually about lifeboats, where people are invited to add their thoughts on the topic, which presumably is why you are here.
Also if its so trivial why is this thread still running with over 5000 views? when it could have died off with like 5 views and 3 postshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bigglyboggly.gif
-----------------------------------------------
ProfWizard Quote:
"...come to terms with the fact that most people will just surface to finish the poor lads with the deck gun..."
-----------------------------------------------
I refer you to answers I have already given in this thread.

This link will be of interest to you.

Treatment of Merchant Ship Survivors by U-boat Crews 1939 - 1945..link here
www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55 (http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55)

RedTerex

ps.

Your 'dream story' was a laugh Hauitsme http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif some nice
(http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) emmoties there !
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Mon September 13 2004 at 07:50 AM.]

Joe the Killerman
09-13-2004, 08:51 AM
Last night, I had an horrible nightmare!

Lifeboats were added to the game, but due to a bug in the game, all of them looked and behaved just like a destroyer! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Btw, since aircraft is shooted by submarines while at relatively low heights, I don't see the point to try to parachute. You couldn't have time to open the parachute!

Das Panzerkunst!

Prof.Wizard
09-13-2004, 09:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Er..No I didnt, are you sure you have read this thread properly? where did I say that U-boats would surface?
Dont have to, already know about it.
It was the Laconia Incident a one time tragedy..
link below to further you knowledge on the subject
http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=33

Well of course there were victims, I didnt say that there werent.

I didnt say that either!
Likewise !
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well if you know about the incident you shouldn't argue about the cruelty of submariners who had orders to leave them unhelped.

BTW, you might have not said directly the things I was responding you but OH-YOU-SO-MUCH implied them.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Hmmm, ok ya, This IS a thread actually about lifeboats, where people are invited to add their thoughts on the topic, which presumably is why you are here.
Also if its so trivial why is this thread still running with over 5000 views? when it could have died off with like 5 views and 3 posts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The thread is long cause there has been creative discussion before the final decision by the devs and because YOU have responded multiple times to everyone with humorous remarks and ironies. Just respect the developers' decision and go on with your life dude.

No lifeboats, perhaps in SH4 or as add-on.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
This link will be of interest to you.

Treatment of Merchant Ship Survivors by U-boat Crews 1939 - 1945..link here
http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't worry. UBoat.net has been my source for a long time now. You still don't get it, do you? It's not about what happened it's about the implications of simulating the life-boats effectively in a computer game/sim.

As I said, there is cruelty in simulating lifeboats. Other things have priority atm. I agree with the devs.

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

hauitsme
09-13-2004, 10:05 PM
ProfWizard Quotes:
______________________________________________

"..come to terms with the fact that most people will just surface to finish the poor lads with the deck gun.."
______________________________________________


Just who do you hang out with? Whoever it is, get away from them! They seem to have warped your mind(or did it come that way?)

______________________________________________

"..stop being fanatic.."
______________________________________________


First we lie, now we're fanatics. And you seem to have called him a fanatic in another thread. Keep it up.

_______________________________________________

"..there is cruelty in simulating lifeboats.."
_______________________________________________


WHAT does that mean?


_______________________________________________

"The thread is long cause there has been creative discussion before the final decision by the devs and because YOU have responded multiple times to everyone with humorous remarks and ironies."
_______________________________________________


Again you show you DON'T know what your talking about. This thread was well over 300 posts and 5000 views BEFORE that final decision was made. Another Nube that knows it all, reads peoples minds, and doesn't know even recent history!

______________________________________________

"Not everyone can live without water for a week, especially if you are already at the brink of dehydration."
______________________________________________


When were they at the brink? When did that happen? Do you mean to say they had no liquids while they were sailing before having to abandon ship, or what? And every lifeboat has stores to be used if deployed.
AGAIN you prove you don't know what your talking about! Look before you leap.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
09-14-2004, 12:06 AM
Some of Profwizards quotes go from the ridiculous to the sublime LOL.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/horseploppy.gif

But Hauitsmes's quotes are bang on and I couldnt have said better...
ie Hauitsme quotes about Profwizard "...Again you show you DON'T know what your talking about. This thread was well over 300 posts and 5000 views BEFORE that final decision was made. Another Nube that knows it all, reads peoples minds, and doesn't know even recent history.."

Nicely said there Hauitsme. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/applaus.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ProfWizard, It is accepted that people can air there views on this thread as any other, but man you dictate like Hitler or any other numbnut.
ie"...YOU have responded multiple times to everyone with humorous remarks and ironies. Just respect the developers' decision and go on with your life dude..."

I reply: Are you saying I shouldnt post what I want...wind ya neck in and get real&lt;&lt;&lt;there LOL a bit of dictating from me, I might get the hang of this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and theres more
"...you shouldn't argue about the cruelty of submariners.."

I reply: OH shouldnt I, if I wanna argue a case I'll argue it.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Grumble.gif get it your head round it!

"...stop being fanatic.."

yeah, I clocked that one too.


This is not a forum its really a Ship,the SS Ubiforum.
The Devteam is the Captain and us poor souls are the passengers and crew.

If this ship gets a torpedo in its side and we have to abandon ship, then I'm sorry to say that ProfWizard, you will not be allowed into our lifeboat, image supplied&gt;&gt;http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/lifeboat-titanic.gif You will have to go down with the ship http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-14-2004, 06:35 AM
Noah's Arc was where it all started. Might of been a big oversized lifeboat but we should never forget the roots of our lifeboat history. Maybe we could ask now for an Arc to sweep the seas for pixel fellas. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Prof.Wizard
09-14-2004, 07:18 AM
LOL, I won't continue this ridiculous peeing contest with you, RedTerex and hauitsme, the fact of the matter is that I agree with the developers and life-boats WON'T be added... so the game won't come late because of some trigger-happy newbies (like you) who can't understand the complex issues of the matter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Keep whining about life-boats and being ironic about the hard work the devs have given on other (more important!) aspects of the game/sim, you are oh-so pathetic! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Just go on with your lives (and let this thread die) or get in terms with a modeller/modder to have the life-boats for a future patch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

[This message was edited by Prof.Wizard on Tue September 14 2004 at 06:28 AM.]

RedTerex
09-14-2004, 07:48 AM
Profwizard.
Us Lifeboat lobbiers here will still be here if you want to come back at anytime http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I stated on this thread Mon 28 June Quote:

"...If you want to post anti-lifeboat texts then that is ok. This SubSim Community as I have always discovered likes to express wide and varied views on everything associated with SH3..."

You expressed your reasons for not wanting Lifeboats. That is ok. You gave some reasonable argument about Lifeboats and survival and the fact some may shoot them up if they were included,that is also fair debate.

What rocked the boat ( or should I say Lifeboat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) was the WAY you put your argument forward.

Myself, and Hauitsme along with Taskforce1x1 and a "few" others, 84% of the community in fact would still like proportional representation of Lifeboats in SH3.

Oh and btw you may have use of this emmotty&gt;&gt;http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/merlinsmiley.gif (right click on it and save) to remind yourself that we are not such bad guys in here after all.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/big-grin.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

Prof.Wizard
09-14-2004, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Profwizard.
Us Lifeboat lobbiers here will still be here if you want to come back at anytime http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I stated on this thread Mon 28 June Quote:

"...If you want to post anti-lifeboat texts then that is ok. This SubSim Community as I have always discovered likes to express wide and varied views on everything associated with SH3..."

You expressed your reasons for not wanting Lifeboats. That is ok. You gave some reasonable argument about Lifeboats and survival and the fact some may shoot them up if they were included,that is also fair debate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have done that as well many posts ago. You said your view more than once but you wanted to press it on me (and prolly others). Leave this thread for others to express their opinion, even if I truly believe it's trivial now that we had official communication from the dev team that life-boats won't be in.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What rocked the boat ( or should I say Lifeboat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) was the WAY you put your argument forward.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps.
I didn't try to offend anyone in particular (let alone those who lobby pro-) with my comment but I sincerely believed (and still think) that most users will gun down the life-boats, as it happened/happens with many parachuters in IL-2.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Myself, and Hauitsme along with Taskforce1x1 and a "few" others, 84% of the community in fact would still like proportional representation of Lifeboats in SH3.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was OBVIOUS that such a poll would have that result. To be totally frank with you, before reading the devs' FAQ I voted "Yes" as well. But members/customers would ALWAYS say yes to more features so the poll is neither scientific, nor proves anything other than the will of most members for an added feature as long as the game is not delaying anymore.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Oh and btw you may have use of this emmotty to remind yourself that we are not such bad guys in here after all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm, I don't get it if you're ironic to me here (again!) but I don't underestimate you as contributing member in this forum, nor I believe you're a bad guy.

It's just that we are both too stubborn to abandon our views on the life-boat issue. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
I think we started with the wrong foot, that's all. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-14-2004, 10:40 AM
Everyone, Lets put this all aside and focus on SHIII. The dev team needs our help. No one is better than anyone. We all have good input to share. Lets get things crackin'. Think of SHIII. There is so much to look forward too. Some of have our bad days. Ive had them,we all had them. We are family here lets be supportative of eachother. Lets just have fun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
09-14-2004, 12:05 PM
I would only agree to not having lifeboats if it would be always all terrorists on board these ships. If it were a naval war the terrorists would give us...they would loose! (their loosing now anyways. But slowly) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Keep on Smiling'

LostGunner
09-14-2004, 04:19 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif Man you guys are something else. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Can't keep from reading this thread, for one time I agree then I disagree but what the hey you guys are cool. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now where did I dock that lifeboat ?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
09-14-2004, 05:37 PM
LostGunner,

Its so much fun I agree 100% I too look forward to viewing the comedy and what people have to say to some of our posts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
09-14-2004, 10:12 PM
Well, since that is over(?), let's get back to the matter at hand.

Uh, what was it?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sailor.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

SailorSteve
09-14-2004, 10:57 PM
We were all lost at sea without a.........clue?

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

RedTerex
09-15-2004, 12:41 AM
This emottyhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/sailor.gif is the funniest yet.

big Thumbs uphttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Big-thumsup.gif I hope I can find some great ones like that !

And Hey, this thread just seams to go on and on.

I thought it would have died by nowhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/grimreaper.gif

Not a chance when guys like you lot keep it so topical LOL http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/byebye-or-hello.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Wed September 15 2004 at 12:01 AM.]

TASKFORCE1x1
09-15-2004, 07:09 AM
Museums, movies, games and books show, display and talk about the lifeboat experience. Very popular indeed! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Xanthippus
09-15-2004, 11:21 AM
A little modern day lifeboat story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3658528.stm

TASKFORCE1x1
09-15-2004, 12:12 PM
Good find. Good reading. +1 for our cause http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-16-2004, 12:48 AM
Good one Xan, I bet they would have given us the vote http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm just saddened that a what would have been a nice feature in SH3 as lifeboats wont make it because a few morons would shoot at them.

It dawned on me that the Devs probably wouldnt even like the idea of the same morons shooting at Phantom lifeboats either.

In flight sims people shoot up parachutists as verified by a few people in this forum but that hasnt stopped game developers from including them, because its only a game and no-one in the real world really gives a s***.
Any more than they would about lifeboats.

I mean LOL it wouldnt make the 9 o clock news now would it.

TODAY A PC VIDEO GAMES PLAYER SHOT AT A LIFEBOAT FULL OF SURVIVORS IN A COMPUTER GAME.

ALSO A MR GREEN FROM WISCONSIN USA PAINTED HIS GARAGE DOOR BLUE AS HE SAID HE LIKED THE TONE.

Yep great news stories there both of the same value.

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

hauitsme
09-16-2004, 11:17 PM
"I mean LOL it wouldnt make the 9 o clock news now would it"
______________________________________________


I'm sorry to say, YES !! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/antlers1.gif

175 Channels, and nothing on. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/antlers2.gif

LATERhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/demoted.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
09-24-2004, 06:55 PM
Ive been away for about a week what did I miss? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RedTerex
09-24-2004, 09:26 PM
Well basically, Lifeboats are out but super detailed harbours are in.

Now dont go around telling everyone but if I had the choice between them I would have elected for the super detailed harbours.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/oh-noo-2.gif

Indeed we may not be getting lifeboats but resources are not being wasted and it appears that the DevTeam are putting in 100% in all other areas, which is brilliant.

Remember when we were asking "will there be Harbours? will there be subpens?" as at the time rumours suggested that they were not going to be included.

Just think for a second what we have achieved though, with a whole host of extras that were originally going to be dropped from the game that will now see the light of day in SH3. This was stated by the Devteam somewhere on this forum (too lazy to find the page and post a link for ref,sorryhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/sleepystatic.gif )

Cant wait to sneek up the Mersey, Liverpool and put a deck gun shell through some scousers bedroom windowhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bigglyboggly.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
09-25-2004, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <span class="ev_code_RED">Originally posted by RedTerex:</span>

Just think for a second what we _have_ achieved though, with a whole host of extras that were originally going to be dropped from the game that will now see the light of day in SH3. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...And who knows if any of these great ideas will be used later on in another SHIV (I hope).

Already I see that Tiberius Lazar <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> wasn‚‚ā¨ôt very enthusiastic about the idea of making a crew in the beginning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But they've done it which is way kool! I believe strongly that the more close to life you can get with a sim the better and more enjoyable the sim will be. Sound,detail,interactability,eyecandy, all does one thing...It lessens the boardom! Playing games is what I do if I am board. I dont want to play a game and BE board Lol! My hats off to <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Tiberius Lazar - Lead Designer</span> for giving the "ok" for making the crew come alive and for listening to the pleas of our members of this and the DE forums to have dynamic campaigns! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

u2336
09-25-2004, 07:24 AM
Just a little though....(maybe already said but I did miss a lot of things these last days) :

About the argument of not doing lifeboats to avoid any risk of sinking them intentionaly...Why is there the bail out feature in flightsim ? I could always shoot on an ejected pilot just for fun...It is just a matter of me and my conscience.

my 2 cents

RedTerex
09-27-2004, 12:34 AM
Along the same lines of u2336's post, if we have to abandon the U-boat, I wonder if we will find ourselves in a little dinghy or maybe just us poor unfortunate guys wearing waterwings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

A 15 second cinematic of the crew bobbing up and down in their dinghy's on the sea would be nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
09-27-2004, 03:51 PM
Would be funny to see a bunch with shower caps on bobbing up and down in the water. lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

hauitsme
09-27-2004, 04:02 PM
Yea, just what we need, a bath!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/bath.gif

RedTerex
09-28-2004, 12:44 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifOh no...LOL roflmao! haha that Smiley in the bath is the funniest one EVER ! haha.

lost for words now LOL !
excellent humourhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Big-thumsup.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
09-28-2004, 04:37 PM
It is very funny indeed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ive seen many now but thats the best.

"have anyone seen guy smiley?" lol

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedTerex
10-03-2004, 09:17 AM
I have decided that I will NOT be creating any programming for a mod to include Lifeboats for SH3.

First reason is that I do not have the alloted time to spend on such an endevour.

Secondly I would have to learn new skills for the programing codecs, scriptings etc and that would also be a time consumer.

A mod would have to be perfect without any flaws, it would have to fit seamlessly into the existing game formats and this again would be another time consumer for an individuul with a relative meagre amount of knowledge for this kind of formulae.

For those luckily enough to be equiped with the right programming knowledge for this endevour then please consider the implications.

1. The Lifeboats would have to be manned by pixel fellas upon their ship sinking.

2.The lifeboats would have to be programmed to lower into the water.

3.The lifeboats would have to sail away from the sinking wreck.

4.The lifeboats would have to be modelled for damage if full realism is to be included, and this would have to include 'from scratch' animations depicting damage models.

5.Or programming to 'ghost' the lifeboats to be impervious to damage with codecs etc set to ignore all surronding realisms (shells but not Ocean movement)

The list is endless and resources would indeed be sucked up to the tune of meggabytes of work for an eyecandy feature that although would be a great feature would not be worth the end result as a generally NON-interactive component.

This post is after long consideration...ie I give up on the whole idea.

Now then...lets consider...life-preserves for a man overboard...

TASKFORCE1x1
10-03-2004, 12:27 PM
For how much feeling is brought to the table about the lifeboat issue I too think about this topic often. When I eat my Cheerio's (also thinking they look like life preservers) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I think about what next to write to get our shipwrecked men some help.


As a tribute to the lifeboat cause....
Maybe we can get a cerial made called SHIII. Why the heck not. They have a captain crunch cerial. Ours could be called El'capatain' (hehe) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oberst_Kurt
10-03-2004, 02:39 PM
I think lifeboats are a fine realism touch. And for the affair of machineguning them, the game could deal with it in most ways, being a criinal war act by international treaty. In the end, it will show the morals of the commander.

For myself, I'll be content to emerge my submarine with my venting flag to show them the power of III Reich http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif and graciously letting them be alive.

TASKFORCE1x1
10-04-2004, 02:15 PM
Should be able to get positive points for not shooting the lifeboats and a negative for shooting at lifeboats. When you allow men to board a rescue neutral vessel you get positive points. Maybe special awards like medals or ribbons could be awarded for special seamenship. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jose.MaC
10-04-2004, 03:42 PM
Instead of lifeboats, why not lifeballoons? So the crew could fly far away from the wreck!

TASKFORCE1x1
10-05-2004, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jose.MaC:
Instead of lifeboats, why not lifeballoons? So the crew could fly far away from the wreck! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good Jose.MaC .

If since they cannot get the lifeboats in the picture it would be neat to see sea planes pick up any crew or neutral ships scoop them out of the water.

Some ships sink slower than others giving the crew time to prepare. Some of these ships have cargo that is less dense than water. In some of the books that I have read about stories of captains they mentioned about some of the unlucky crews to have heavy cargo like 5 ton steel ingots that if their ship got hit from a torpedo it would sink in a matter of minutes. A cargo of timber or baby diapers could take hours to sink. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

capthavoc
10-10-2004, 05:59 AM
i suggest when shooting at lifeboats a drop in moral or even a compleet mutany is at hand.
mayby this can be modeled ??
a captain giving that order must be very sure shooting at lifeboats is essential to the rest of the objectives otherwise compromise his mission by loosing the trust of the crew
wel i geuss this is just a theorectical discussion as there not gonna be modelled.
but you can even consider helping live boots them with food water and other supplies etc ?

RedTerex
10-10-2004, 07:54 AM
CaptHavoc syas Quote "...a captain giving that order must be very sure shooting at lifeboats..."

No no no !http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bash-head-wall.gif You would NEVER give such an order unless you needed a psychologist, are you mad!!!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Grumble.gif

This is the VERY reason why Lifeboats are not going to make it in SH3, becuase if this type of wrecklessness.

I would have suggested that if a person fires upon a lifeboat that the game/sim immediately ends, with some imbedded irreversible programming that cannot be overriden.
In fact it may not be that hard to do, it would just be like when a game ends like Raven Shield when you shoot the last bad guy.

This would probably be the only way in which we could have Lifeboats in the game/sim.

Quite simply then if one single shell from any gun hits a lifeboat&gt;&gt;&gt;GAME OVER.
Torpedoes of course would just go under the lifeboat if one was to aim one at them.

hauitsme
10-10-2004, 04:07 PM
And it continues ...

Great to see people ARE still interested!!

Capthavoc, don't forget to VOTE.
Even though the DevTeamhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/pope.gif have decided (wrongly, IMO) NOT to include them, they still have a place to play in the game. Whether or not YOU shoot them is not the question, but maybe a new poll could be started to get everyone's PERSONAL choice.

What should happen if you do shoot them is something else that has controversy. But hey, why do you think this thread is like the Energizer Bunny?(it keeps going, and going, and going).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/spider.gif

RedTerex
10-15-2004, 04:09 PM
I think that the successful results for the poll as it is speaks for itself and for the majority.

Where 11 yes...just a mere 11 members of this great community were actually displeased with the idea.

Results (185 votes counted so far):

119 (64%)
YES. include life-boats with full realism.
34 (18%)
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at
11 (6%)
NO. I dont want them.
21 (11%)
I'm not fussed either way.

macker33
10-15-2004, 09:55 PM
Real men dont need lifeboats.Real men would swim home.

TASKFORCE1x1
10-18-2004, 08:04 AM
Aquaman (the comic hero) would summons his sea creatures and ride his way home. There are many to choose from-

-Ride a killer whale
-Ride 2 dolphins like skiis

stuff like that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LostGunner
10-18-2004, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:


I would have suggested that if a person fires upon a lifeboat that the game/sim immediately ends, with some imbedded irreversible programming that cannot be overriden.



Quite simply then if one single shell from any gun hits a lifeboat&gt;&gt;&gt;GAME OVER.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



10-4 back door, yeseree bob, allright, okey dokey, ***********Applause,applause,applause************* * http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedTerex
10-18-2004, 11:43 PM
Someone, anyone, please tell me why this thread is still alive ?

Yes I know I keep answering it, and that does contribute http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but still the question remains !

My own answer is one word..
<span class="ev_code_RED">INTEREST</span>

hauitsme
10-18-2004, 11:59 PM
Also http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif<span class="ev_code_RED">ANGER</span>http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif!!
Bewilderment fits too.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-21-2004, 07:37 AM
Sooooooo. Whats all happening here at the life boat poll? How about some more votes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Messervy
11-21-2004, 07:45 AM
It is FUTILE! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-21-2004, 09:25 AM
I suppose that 3000+ people in the water after sinking a troop ship would graphic lag a bit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

HeibgesU999
11-21-2004, 09:26 AM
For the love of all that is holy...Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Jose.MaC
11-21-2004, 09:59 AM
Or +75 boats of about 40 people. Gee, a convoy could be multiplied by 50 in just few minutes!

This may be the real reason lifeboats will be not represented.

RedTerex
11-21-2004, 11:30 AM
Aahh ! I see the old lifeboat poll thread has been resurected again..goodo !

Realism ended with a big full stop at the want/request/need and plead for lifeboats.
This I though was quite sad and an attempt to 'sanitise' WWII naval warfare.

I gathered that the Devs were thinking this type of scenario...
"its not nice to have hapless, helpless pathetic individulas in a lifeboat, all alone"
(no offence intended there Devs, just voicing my opinions)

Yes indeed I agree with that sentiment and train of thought, its politically correct and makes the game nicer and more pink and fluffy bundles, but it aint real !

solution:
Code it so the game ends if you attempt to shoot a lifeboat.
Let a ship appear to save the lifeboat crew 3 days after the sub has gone...all done invisibly but stated so somewhere.
Just have maybe one or two lifebaots per convoy instead on none.

It could be worked out to a reasonable solution.

hauitsme
11-21-2004, 01:11 PM
Here we go again?!! Ye haw!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/bud.gif

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Please</span> keep the <span class="ev_code_WHITE">VOTES</span> coming in.

Results (195 votes counted so far):

125 (64%)YES. include life-boats with full realism.
34 (17%) YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at
12 (6%) NO. I dont want them.
24 (12%) I'm not fussed either way.

------------------------------------------------

We ALL know that as soon as it's released, some modder is, or should I say dozens of them are going to fix this MAJOR exclusion by the DevTeam. But then, we'll have even more to think about. Which one to choose from?

I was just wondering what 'features' should be:

Included Excluded
1.
2.
3.

Not just eye-candy, but things of substance, such as the topic of this very thread - shootable or unshootable. Should there be a consequence/reward of your action/inaction?

The 'mother of all mods' would have everything included with a switch for each. Maybe 'minimods' for each option, with 'one mod to rule them all'.

HeibgesU999
11-21-2004, 02:18 PM
I would say a better solution is have ASW forces surprise the kalue who is arrogant or stupid enough to sit around watching the lifeboats.

Have some planes swoop down, or some escorts be spotted moving at high speed towards the lifeboats.

Blast the foolish uboat out of the water, and send the crew with her captain down to Davey Jones Locker.

Kongo Otto
11-21-2004, 02:54 PM
If you want that kind of reality join the Marines and move your arsch to Falludja.



Gruß
Kongo Otto

LostGunner
11-21-2004, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kongo Otto:
If you want that kind of reality join the Marines and move your arsch to Falludja.



Gruß
Kongo Otto <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Leave the Marines out of it ! And go stand in the corner. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Meanwile on the north forty ( next to the ocean ) bring on the lifeboats http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hauitsme
11-21-2004, 05:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
I would say a better solution is have ASW forces surprise the kalue who is arrogant or stupid enough to sit around watching the lifeboats.

Have some planes swoop down, or some escorts be spotted moving at high speed towards the lifeboats.

Blast the foolish uboat out of the water, and send the crew with her captain down to Davey Jones Locker. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have no problem with any of those suggestions 'IF' the stricken ship happened to get a radio message off and there were any 'forces' in the area. If it didn't get that message off, or there were no 'forces' around, that's something else entirely.

E.Thang
11-21-2004, 06:04 PM
Man, you guys are all uptight over life boats! Drop it already, they said no. That will be in SH8, when we are running our pentium 10 chips at 15 ghz, and the average computer has 4GB ram. What's the big deal over the life boat issue anyway? U-boat crews didn't gun them down anyway, alright...a few did, but it's not as wide spread as everyone thinks. They actually use to ferry survivors to shore until Britian instisted on blasting them out of the water, even while they were helping to save British civilians.

RedTerex
11-22-2004, 12:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by E.Thang:
...U-boat crews didn't gun them down anyway, alright...a few did, but it's not as wide spread as everyone thinks. They actually use to ferry survivors to shore until Britian instisted on blasting them out of the water, even while they were helping to save British civilians. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah we know !

hauitsme
11-22-2004, 12:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What's the big deal over the life boat issue anyway? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you haven't figured that out by now, start reading.

RedTerex
11-22-2004, 07:03 AM
...and you have only got 400 posts in over 20 pages to get through!! Its all in there E.Thang, its all in there!

If you can input here with any original new ideas, argument, solutions then you are very welcome to post away.

We may not have lifeboats in SH3 BUT a lot of what has been said might persuade a developer in the future to include lifeboats into SH-IV.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-22-2004, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by E.Thang:
What's the big deal over the life boat issue anyway? U-boat crews didn't gun them down anyway, alright...a few did, but it's not as wide spread as everyone thinks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One did. Not a few, just one.

I'm with you. I have no idea why so many people think this is a big issue. In your sub, you'll hardly ever see a lifeboat, and when you do it will be a tiny speck in the distance. Sure, it would be nice to have them - it adds to realism etc., but their exclusion hardly warrants the huge amount that's been written about them on these forums.

jensofswede2004
11-22-2004, 07:52 AM
beeryus is right...only ONE sub commander was charged in the Nuremberg trial.

In fact we're better off not having life boats in the game since most of us would probably want to help (if that option existed - like giving supplies etc...). That would put our boat in a very dangerous position as many german WW2 captains found out in the real war. There were several incidents were german subs were attacked by allied airforce while trying to rescue survivors - making casulaties even on among the survivors.

That happend especially when they tried to play it fair and signalled on all radio channels that they were doing a humanitarian rescue operation. Allied command didn't give a **** about that and attacked anyway. Those guys should of been on trial at Nuremberg too...

RedTerex
11-23-2004, 12:16 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jensofswede2004:

....That would put our boat in a very dangerous position as many german WW2 captains found out in the real war. There were several incidents were german subs were attacked by allied airforce while trying to rescue survivors - making casulaties even on among the survivors.

That happend especially when they tried to play it fair and signalled on all radio channels that they were doing a humanitarian rescue operation....QUOTE]

Great post !

And I say EXACTLY!!, just think of the tension and intrigue, danger and human feeling that this type of scenario/encounter would bring to SH3.
It would add a new dimension into the Sim, new levels of difficulty and daring.

Lifeboats were an issue to U-boat Commanders in real life so why not here in our next best thing to real life.

It could be a nice little add on in the guise of a patch one day, when the Devteam realise that by doing this they will be taking a bold step forward into realism for the advancement that will set a milestone in Video Sims.

But as the Devs say that lifeboats will not be included primarily becuase it could get shot up by unscrupulous players, I still say programm it so if a sub opens fire on it , GAME OVER.
WHATS THE PROBLEM ??

And may I just remind you all of what YOU think.
In what is this forums most popular, longest and most controversial post EVER.

Results (205 votes counted so far):

130 (63%)
YES. include life-boats with full realism.
36 (18%)
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at
15 (7%)
NO. I dont want them.
24 (12%)
I'm not fussed either way.

Only 7% which is 15 Community members dont want lifeboats whilst the MAJORITY do.

jensofswede2004
11-23-2004, 04:11 AM
Redterex,

I agree with you. Lifeboats would be great. Crews in general would be nice to see. Imagine seeing the guys handling the depth charges or the AA guns on allied ships.

But I understand DEV team's concern about that feature taking to much space. In response to The ethical problem that could of been dealt in the way you described.

But if you think about it...putting our boats on the line for helping survivors is also posing a political question. Example: We stop for helping a life boat and suddenly the allies are coming down on us like devils. Maybe that could pose some problems for Ubisoft. The general view is, as you know, that germans are the bad guys...and if a game is recreating a (sometimes historically true) picture of the allies as bad guys that might mean trouble for the company.

I can already picture the tabloids in England crying out like madmen that a subsim-game is dragging down the honorouble allied sea men in the dirt... In the "ahistorical" media the wounds of ww2 can pop up in a second.

Drebbel
11-23-2004, 05:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Imagine seeing the guys handling the depth charges or the AA guns on allied ships. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That (the DC handlers) is already implemented in SHIII. Think it shows on one of the videos.

bertgang
11-23-2004, 05:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensofswede2004:
I can already picture the tabloids in England crying out like madmen that a subsim-game is dragging down the honorouble allied sea men in the dirt... In the "ahistorical" media the wounds of ww2 can pop up in a second. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That could be really a problem, more than to be able to machine-gun survivors at sea.
History reports that some subs were attacked when attempting to help survivors; maybe by mistake, maybe by choice of allied pilots.
If SHIII won't allow these attacks, it should be "not realistic"; if they are allowed... back to jensofswede post.

jensofswede2004
11-23-2004, 06:15 AM
Drebbel,

I thought the crew we see in one of the videos was only part of a trailer - not actually in-game footage. I recall one of the dev teams answers beeing that it would take to much space to implement crews.

Bertgang,

Yes, allied command ordered attack on those subs trying a rescue operation. And the worst part is that they took advantage of the german captains open radio message that thay were untertaking a humanitarian task. The german captains gave away their position allowing the allies to find them instantely. Even deploying red cross flags didn't stop allied pilots.

That sucks...

Pr0metheus 1962
11-23-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensofswede2004:
The german captains gave away their position allowing the allies to find them instantely. Even deploying red cross flags didn't stop allied pilots.

That sucks... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does suck, and it's a contravention of the rules of war. Pity those conventions aren't usually applied to the victors because the victors are usually the ones running the war crimes trials. Plenty of Allied military personnel would have been hanged at Nuremberg if the War Crimes Tribunal had applied the law without bias.

RedTerex
11-23-2004, 09:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensofswede2004:
...I can already picture the tabloids in England crying out like madmen that a subsim-game is dragging down the honorouble allied sea men in the dirt... In the "ahistorical" media the wounds of ww2 can pop up in a second. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mentioned earlier my views even on this point by saying that I doubted very much that a Video game would make the nine o clock news becuase of some feature within it. I stick by my original answer.

Maybe a 10 liner column on page umpteen in the Daily Mail somewhere to express dissaproval but even then theres no news like bad news to publicise a game.

TASKFORCE1x1
11-23-2004, 10:40 AM
I will watch closely to what happens to the external crew of a DE,DD ship. Wonder if they will float like the crates in the water or be still loading charges on the racks while the ship is already submearged. Or will they just disappear.

The drama continues.....

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-23-2004, 10:45 AM
Swastickas & Lifeboats verboten! so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Supprized we are able to use weapons at all with all this liberalism & polotics.

LostGunner
11-23-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Swastickas & Lifeboats verboten! so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Supprized we are able to use weapons at all with all this liberalism & polotics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Did'nt the Devs allready say that "Swastika's" would be included because it was "History".

Yarrick_
11-23-2004, 11:34 AM
If they include lifeboats, it doesn't matter if you are not able to sunk them, the fact is that there will be people willing to do so. *******s willing to do so, to be exact.
I know that it is a game, but just to think in those things puts me mad... how do people have the guts to shoot to an unarmed lifeboat full of merchantsmen without food, in the middle of the Atlantic?

bertgang
11-23-2004, 12:01 PM
You know, someone is cruel, someone is neonazist, someone is insane... but the magical word "realism" coverts everything...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-23-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostGunner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Swastickas & Lifeboats verboten! so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Supprized we are able to use weapons at all with all this liberalism & polotics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Did'nt the Devs allready say that "Swastika's" _would_ be included because it was "History". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where was it posted? I follow these threads closely. Its possible I missed it. Please link it for me because I'm still under the impression it was to be no. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/confused06.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-23-2004, 12:24 PM
Who restarted this topic which was so far deep in the threads anyways come to think of it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/innocent01.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/stirthepot.gif

LostGunner
11-23-2004, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostGunner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Swastickas & Lifeboats verboten! so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Supprized we are able to use weapons at all with all this liberalism & polotics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Did'nt the Devs allready say that "Swastika's" _would_ be included because it was "History". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where was it posted? I follow these threads closely. Its possible I missed it. Please link it for me because I'm still under the impression it was to be no. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/confused06.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look over at "Subsim".

From Subsim:Silent HunterIII "Live at the German Games Convention" by Drebbel August 23,2004

Quote: The 'swastika issue' has been a hot topic in various forums. Florin said that they are making a historical simulation and that therefore swastikas and iron crosses will be included. With an exception for the countries where they expect legal problems (like Germany). Tiberius said that he thinks that after the simulation has been released the fan communities will soon put the graphic files online that are needed to change a 'no-swastika' version into the standard version.Unquote


I forgot correct link, will look for it now.

Ok here you go. Scroll down to just above where it says in bold print "THE BOTTOM LINE".

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh3/review_sh3_aug04.htm

Pr0metheus 1962
11-23-2004, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yarrick_:
I know that it is a game, but just to think in those things puts me mad... how do people have the guts to shoot to an unarmed lifeboat full of merchantsmen without food, in the middle of the Atlantic? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, only one commander did it in real life (and I'd say he did it out of cowardice - it doesn't take courage to shoot unarmed people).

hauitsme
11-23-2004, 05:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yarrick_:
... how do people have the guts to shoot to an unarmed lifeboat full of merchantsmen without food, in the middle of the Atlantic? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All lifeboats http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif I have ever heard of had stores of food & water plus numerous other supplies permanently on board.

Why do people constantly think that they were launched w/o any provisions? Is it only to give sympathy to their argument?

Dominicrigg
11-23-2004, 07:18 PM
I think lifeboats are not needed in the game, if you read most of the arguments for them it is just some sick fascination with machine gunning the boats, or using the deck gun ect...

All in all it wouldnt add to gameplay, the only way i would say they should be in is if there was punishment for killing the people as there would be in real life.

Anyone who thinks the crew of u-boats would happily stand by while their captain gunned down sailers (who i might add are mainly non combatents) is mad and needs their head checking. The large proportion of u-boat crews were honourable if you study history. So because of the potential for abuse i would say no unless done with repercusions...

RedTerex
11-24-2004, 12:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Who restarted this topic which was so far deep in the threads anyways come to think of it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/innocent01.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/stirthepot.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont look at me, I let it go.
The thread sank as far as I was concerned and because there were no lifeboats all posts sank with it!

BUT seeing as it has been resurected by some interested party well the posts are flying thick and fast...again.

If there was any controversy over a topic in a PC Video game anywhere in the world then this has to be it, right here.

Dont forget that the majority of community members who all have rights to voice their opinions within this forum and specifically on this topic have said YES to lifeboat inclusion.

It is only Do-gooders and political/moral correctness that stands in the way.
Sanitised warfare, all pink and fluffy bundles.

Its perfectly ok and above board to sink a troop ship though with 1000 defenceless men onboard and send them to their deaths though, primerily because you cant see them drown. How sad!

jensofswede2004
11-24-2004, 01:44 AM
Agree with the last post..EOD http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-24-2004, 02:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Dont forget that the majority of community members who all have rights to voice their opinions within this forum and specifically on this topic have said YES to lifeboat inclusion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well of course! Who wouldn't want a feature that exists in real life to be included in a simulation? But the question is, how much will we gain from it, and at what cost? Is the extra realism really worth the effort? That's what this thread is really all about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is only Do-gooders and political/moral correctness that stands in the way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, there is the uncomfortable fact that lifeboats are a very minor part of submarine warfare. I mean there is little to be gained by including them. They don't add in any material way to the simulation. They're basically just another bit of 'chrome' or eye candy. You can't use them in any way, and their existence (or non-existence) doesn't affect you in any real way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Its perfectly ok and above board to sink a troop ship though with 1000 defenceless men onboard and send them to their deaths though, primerily because you cant see them drown. How sad! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was the reality.

Dominicrigg
11-24-2004, 06:46 AM
Hahah its not about political correctness of fluffy clouds. You sort of ruin your own argument because as you point out we get to sink ships with 1000s of people on, many of whom would drown. Sanitised warefare it is not, realistic warefare it is, putting in lifeboats with the chance to machine gun them is lame, and is "fluffy gaming". Why not allow us to turn the deck gun on the party waiting for us back at shore?? Or use the deck gun on our own ship? Because its dumb...

The point is why have lifeboats, its Unrealistic to have them as you will have players murdering lifeboat crews for kicks, and treating that as a "fun" part of the game. If this is put in, then it should have repercusions as said to stop it, which in the end makes it pointless.

Why have lifeboat crews in so you can "throw them ciggarettes and beer" ? why have lifeboat crews in to wave at them.

Time spent better putting in sea life or more movement in your own crew ect. Or in a replay feature to rewatch your actions in a battle.

That said if they had finished all the features and got bored, then yes, put in lifeboats by all means, im not adverse to extra things, but make it so if you murder the sailers your crew put in for transfers and you get new useless crew. Or at the end of the campaign instead of getting a "well done you survived" message, you get the lethal injection for warcrimes...

Killable lifeboats with no repercusions is "fluffy gaming"

TASKFORCE1x1
11-24-2004, 07:45 AM
Thanks for the link Lostgunner. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-24-2004, 09:06 AM
Now with no lifeboat what will we do?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/3011.gif

Poor pixel fellas.

LostGunner
11-24-2004, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Now with no lifeboat what will we do?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/3011.gif

Poor pixel fellas. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go down and talk to "Davey Jones" I guess ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

hauitsme
11-24-2004, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Beeryus:
They don't add in any material way to the simulation. They're basically just another bit of 'chrome' or eye candy. You can't use them in any way, and their existence (or non-existence) doesn't affect you in any real way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What about the Escorts and other ships that would come to their rescue, if not immediately, then later? More targets to eliminate from the war effort.
Your comment of us not being able to 'use them in any way' has to be the lamest excuse not to have them included I've ever seen/heard.
The 'eye-candy' is not the lifeboats, it's the almost daily call for being able to walk through the sub, wanting to talk to the crew, having a 'life' off board the sub, etc. Every ship on the sea has at least one lifeboat to be used, just in case.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Dominicrigg:
The point is why have lifeboats, its Unrealistic to have them... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Even the DevTeam has admitted having them would be more realistic, so your WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Dominicrigg:
...you get the lethal injection for warcrimes... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yea, we wouldn't want them shot or hung, that would be cruel and unusual punishment!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/noose.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/grimreaper.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-24-2004, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
im not adverse to extra things, but make it so if you murder the sailers... at the end of the campaign instead of getting a "well done you survived" message, you get the lethal injection for warcrimes... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I like this option! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

hauitsme
11-24-2004, 07:44 PM
Not only Lifeboats are going to be denied us. It seems we won't have certain other ships too. I don't know how long this has been there(SubSim FAQ X-7), but here it is:
Are all target names/types realistic for the time period, or do most vessels just have imaginary names?
"All target types will be realistic for the considered time period, with the limitation that we do not have the resources to model every type of ship or airplane operational in WW2. Target names will be historical where the data exists and <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">we feel that no sensitive topics are touched</span>."
Why the h*ll are they making a WAR game then?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Grumble.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-24-2004, 08:23 PM
Like I say, you won't be able to use them. Ships didn't pick up survivors from convoys unless they had massive destroyer escort (as anyone with any knowledge of the war at sea knows), so you can't use them that way. In every way they're just eye candy - and long-range eye candy at that.

hauitsme
11-24-2004, 08:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Beeryus:
Like I say, you won't be able to use them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's the second time this LAME excuse has been used for not including them. What's wrong? Can't come up with something more substantial?

I'll DEFINITELY want to use them if I have to abandon my sub(So will you!). The 'survivors' of the ships we torpedo would be the ones wanting to use them. And quick!
Ships DID pick up survivors. What planet are you from? Probably the same one that believes there were no death camps.

nynek
11-24-2004, 10:29 PM
Hi , nynek here
I've read most of this 22 pages on this life boat topic and I think I've got solution.
You should have possibility to shoot the life boats but at cost of loosing of confidence
of your crew - efficiency stuff down 20 30 40%
or sudden apperance of 5 enemy destroyers with air cover.
Now why
This is sim and for me EVERY avenue in sim should be open-especialy in something with so
long and splendid achivements as a SH is.
But there is a some educational stuff also to consider especialy when we talk about let's
say 'newer' sailors (I'm 41).That's why I'm
saying let them shoot and then let them cry over the forum that THAT mission is impossible
to finish.
P.S.
So far some kind of simmilar solution I saw
years back in open beta Airrwarior.You were
waiting 3 months in line for some one hour mission then after you were shot down you'd
be waiting some 15 minutes for respawn.
Guys you should see how other guys didn't want to die.And it felt realy true.
P.S.'
I know I'm ***** and beside gaming it's a buisness , sales , whole spectrum of buyers and so on but go for it WE old Guard we will stay
with You

nynek

RedTerex
11-25-2004, 12:18 AM
Nynek quotes "...Hi , nynek here
I've read most of this 22 pages on this life boat topic and I think I've got solution.

You should have possibility to shoot the life boats but at cost of loosing of confidence
of your crew - efficiency stuff down 20 30 40%
or sudden apperance of 5 enemy destroyers with air cover...."

Now thats what I call posative input instead of lame opinionated morality issues.

Nice post Nynek with some interesting ideas and a another great possible solution, I particularly like the idea of the Enemy appearing in strength if one was to attack a lifeboat.
This would be a cool way to initiate GAME OVER for the players sub and somewhat poetic that the imbecile who shot up the lifeboat would now get shot up himself!

This may NOT be the ideal solution but it is definatley another possible answer/solution to this issue.

And I feel that thats what we need here, Solutions and Answers to the controversial issue rather than whys and wherefores that dont advance the argument to its fullest degree and potential.

jensofswede2004
11-25-2004, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:

That said if they had finished all the features and got bored, then yes, put in lifeboats by all means, im not adverse to extra things, but make it so if you murder the sailers your crew put in for transfers and you get new useless crew. Or at the end of the campaign instead of getting a "well done you survived" message, you get the lethal injection for warcrimes...

Killable lifeboats with no repercusions is "fluffy gaming" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Dominicrigg. I think his idea is great. Even if you die before the war is over you will get to see a picture of the judges in the Nuremberg court condemning the captain of U-xx for war crimes and your wife/girlfriend saying to the reporters that she is ashamed of you... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-25-2004, 08:31 AM
They will drown and neglected just like some of the most famous sinkings of WWII.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/violent0551.gif Its politics that I hate.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/angry0131.gif I bet if they knew a family member was on board and they were the big cheese they would have a rescue.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/mat1.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-25-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensofswede2004:
you will get to see a picture of the judges in the Nuremberg court condemning the captain of U-xx for war crimes and your wife/girlfriend saying to the reporters that she is ashamed of you... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, then a quick subliminal view of hell, with a devil poking you up the bum with a pitchfork.

jensofswede2004
11-25-2004, 08:53 AM
hehe...why not? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

hauitsme
11-25-2004, 10:16 AM
Why should I or others be forced to play by your morals? Lifeboats are only one thing that has been eliminated from this game because of them.
Morality has NO PLACE in a war game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-25-2004, 11:38 AM
Who's seriously talking about morality? We're talking about a War Crimes Tribunal. Morality doesn't enter into it. If the Nuremberg Crimes Tribunal was a moral force, President Truman and Winston Churchill would have been hanged alonside the Nazi bigwigs.

If you machine gun defenseless survivors, you get hanged because you contravened the Geneva or Hague Conventions and because your side lost the war - not because you were morally wrong. If they hanged people based on morality, any nation involved in the war would suffer a severe manpower shortage due to mass hangings of combatants.

bertgang
11-25-2004, 12:02 PM
That's sadly true.

Yarrick_
11-25-2004, 12:44 PM
agree.

hauitsme
11-25-2004, 09:18 PM
President Truman and Winston Churchill should have been put on trial, along with hundreds, even perhaps thousands of other Allied soldiers, sailors, and civilians due to their actions.

RedTerex
11-26-2004, 01:28 AM
We put theirs on trial, they put ours on trial. Depends which side wins of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So reading from posts above then.
Winston Churchill, Truman and lets carry on Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito, Mussolini, Tito were all war criminals ! and every soldier who fired a shot at a guy who may not have been holding a gun in return is also up for it !

Political correctness ! hhmm already covered in this thread I think !

Its solutions to the issue we require not Armchair politics.

SH3, A realistic Submarine Simulator.
Naval Warfare is being simulated.
War has nasty moments, thats why its war.
Censored warfare is a great idea,lets keep it clean, superb, BUT real life isnt like that. So why should a game not be so?
Our simmed U-boats will be firing simmed Torpedos NOT simmed wooden logs, the deck guns simmed Shells not simmed Jelly beans.
Simmed ships will explode and sink not simmed captions saying " kaboom " with the ship wobbling then turning vertical and going glug glug glug!

War is being simulated, for the PC or rather being glorified. Sorry nothing glorified about it. War is hell and if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen or desert !

Messervy
11-26-2004, 01:53 AM
The other day I edited a short clip from "world at war" series and I plan to put it up on a display - just need u2336 to send me a link where I can upload it.
It depicts an exploding B-17. Awesome!!!!
This clip made me slightly sick - usually I have a very good stomach for human deaths but this one is so painfully realistic.
I hope you can see it soon!

Pr0metheus 1962
11-26-2004, 03:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
So reading from posts above then.
Winston Churchill, Truman and lets carry on Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito, Mussolini, Tito were all war criminals ! and every soldier who fired a shot at a guy who may not have been holding a gun in return is also up for it !
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure. What's so PC about that? Is the truth politically correct now? Are we so afraid of the truth that we have to give it the PC label so that we can laugh at it?

Surely it's not 'PC' to see history from an objective viewpoint. Surely that's just common sense. If common sense is 'PC' then 'PC' is just a meaningless buzz word, meant to evoke an emotional, rather than a rational, response.

RedTerex
11-26-2004, 05:04 AM
Nice post Beeryus and not to untrue within its context, but if I may just illustrate my views on how I see the word 'PC' they may not be far away from yours !

PC is a new ultra modern media, a powerful media at that, its personal, upfront and literaly in your face.

PC = Money, Internet, World-wide, Games, News & Information, Entertainment including Music, Movies, Images and Photographs.
PC = Recreation, Simulation, Portrayal, Correspondance, Communication and Views.

I will stop there as the list could go on.

No, I wouldnt under-estimate the word PC nor Internet, its a VERY powerful media tool that is not licensed and no governing body has hardly any control over it what-so-ever.

Freedom of information is here, it just rests on our morals!

TASKFORCE1x1
11-26-2004, 08:27 AM
I cant stand to see someone drown without a chance of rescue. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/drown1.gif

LostGunner
11-26-2004, 10:01 AM
So whats wrong with an option: "lifeboats on" or "Lifeboats off". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

If you have a fairly powerfull computer ( assuming "Lifeboats" would really consume resources ) then if you want to, click "Lifeboats on". If you computer can't handle the extra resources then just click "Lifeboats off".

Yes Devs and you the near future SH3 gamers I personally AM a diehard SH3 lifeboater and thats the way it will stay EVEN if we do not get the "Lifeboat" option.

A few of you keep harping on the jubject of not being able to see any lifeboats when under the surface or maybe they would just be specks in the distance,etc. Well maybe so, for it would depend on your position at the time the lifeboat/lifeboats were deployed, you may see a lifeboat/lifeboats then again you may only see specks or you may be in the wrong position and not see any at all.

SH3 Devs allready made the statement that swastika's would be included in the "STANDARD" version of SH3 (Not to be included in Germany or countries not wanting it ) because it WAS history. Now I suppose "Lifeboats" were NOT history???? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Now before the flaming begins I CAN live without lifeboats but it would be nice to have the extra option and I do think the SH3 Devs should reconsider ( If they allready hav'nt ? ). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RedTerex
11-26-2004, 10:13 AM
Excellent post LostGunnerhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/applaus.gif You have covered this topic with some good possibilities and sound reasoning. !
The ON or OFF idea is the best solution I have heard, giving the player/gamer the freedom of choice to make his own desision as regards lifeboats.

Again I say to the Devs respectfully "whats the problem?"

hauitsme
11-26-2004, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So whats wrong with an option: "lifeboats on" or "Lifeboats off" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely nothing.

My MAIN problem are others wanting to restrict what can or cannot happen when they appear.
Why should you be forced to do what I want to happen? Why should I be forced to do what you want to happen?
If you 'shoot' them, but I don't like that, why should you be penalized? If you stop to give them supplies/directions, should you get any reward? No? Yes? Why? If I just leave them to drift, should I be penalized? Yes? No? Why?

One countries HERO is anothers WAR CRIMINAL. Exactly like 'One countries Terrorist is anothers Freedom Fighter'.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Again I say to the Devs respectfully "whats the problem?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
'MORALS' have everything to do with it.

Dominicrigg
11-26-2004, 01:32 PM
What war crimes are winston churchill and Truman guilty of?

Also i think a lot of people are confused about what a war criminal and a hero are...

A war hero has not commited war crimes. A war hero would be for example the english men who glided into france to capture a bridge, losing 80% of their friends risking their lives. Even if they were captured by nazis they would not be war criminals. Neither side sees them as war criminals.

On the other hand an officer who executed 100s of men after capture would be a war criminal. Not a hero. There is always right and wrong even if some country sees themselves as right (eg a man blowing up a bus full of children is not a war hero, though his own people who follow that twisted idealism may think so)

We can always see the truth behind who is a war hero and criminal.

Finally everyone here who is harping on about lifeboats, i have yet to see anyone tell you what you can and cant do with lifeboats. People just want them to be realistic, not sadistic target practice for bored children. Put them in, but have realistic results from shooting them, or its pointless and unrealistic to have them.

RedTerex
11-26-2004, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
Finally everyone here who is harping on about lifeboats, i have yet to see anyone tell you what you can and cant do with lifeboats. People just want them to be realistic, not sadistic target practice for bored children. Put them in, but have realistic results from shooting them, or its pointless and unrealistic to have them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dillemas dillemas !

You torp a ship and then it sinks. That ship had say 100 people on board, did they ALL drown and go down with the ship? So far the answer is YES (you have to mentally block this out though for the games sake)
Right then NO simulated people on board or even ones you cant see but you know MUST be there to navigate the ship etc or its all fake, So imagination called for...there are people on board.
Ship sinks no survivivors by default!
unrealistic.
Thank you.

Mjollnir111675
11-26-2004, 05:38 PM
So then would it be politically incorrect to model scurvy or crabs??? And while we're at it may as well add in occasional short arm inspections!!!

That is just to relieve some tension. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
11-26-2004, 06:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
What war crimes are winston churchill and Truman guilty of?

Also i think a lot of people are confused about what a war criminal and a hero are...

A war hero has not commited war crimes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In practice, the difference between a war hero and a villain is generally decided by who wins the war. Heroism is merely one facet of a person's character - it does not necessarily preclude the capacity for criminal or psychotic behaviour. Someone who is a hero at one point can become a villain or a psycho at another. Take Benedict Arnold for example - had he been killed (instead of merely wounded) at Saratoga, he would have been one of the greatest military heroes of the United States. Instead he lived to desert to the British and his name became a byword for treachery.

As for Truman, he made the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Dropping a WMD on a civilian target is as clear an example of a war crime as there is.

Winston Churchill oversaw the indiscriminate bombing of cities designed specifically to kill civilians: for example the fire-bombing of Dresden and numerous other cities.

The Nuremberg Charter clearly says the wanton devastation of a city is a war crime (section II; article 6b). It doesn't matter if you're doing it in a good cause, the act is a war crime. The Geneva and Hague Conventions for the conduct of war state that attacks specifically targeting civilians are war crimes. By these criteria, both Truman and Churchill were war criminals. The only reason they are generally not regarded as such is that they weren't prosecuted because they were on the winning side. If the Allies had lost the war, they would have been tried and convicted, and rightfully so (although it would probably have happened in a sham Nazi kangaroo court).

If we are to see these matters clearly, we must impose the same yardstick for criminal activity on our allies as we impose on our enemies. Anything less is hypocrisy.

LostGunner
11-26-2004, 06:20 PM
RedTerex I think you may have just added another log to the fire on your LIFEBOAT SURVIVORS POLL. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The sickos will be lined up for miles. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

hauitsme
11-26-2004, 11:33 PM
But will they admit it 'truthfully'?
I have NO problem with anybody, one way or the other, wanting to shoot them. My problem is others wanting to put restrictions/consequences on them. What they, or I do, is no-one elses business. I keep my morals out of it. Keep yours out of it too.

Dominicrigg
11-27-2004, 02:27 AM
Hausitme Your arguments make no sense... You ask for lifeboats because its unrealistic without them, then you want to be able to do what you want with them without any result... Glad the creators of the game understand the situation but i give up on trying to explain it to you. We will have to agree to disagree...

To Beeryus, ahh i understand. Good point, and i would agree then, the country can say who is a war hero. But HISTORY will see the truth.

Your example of truman and churchill i have to disagree with and so would 1000s of historians.

Churchill ordered bombing german cities in retaliation for english cities which were bombed, prior to this english did not target civilians. On advice of his generals, it was by then a case of hit their civilians or we lose the war. (with hindsight this was not needed but they did not know) yes if germany had won maybe he would have been tried (this is not guaranteed though) but history would not have seen him as a villain.

Truman also saved millions of lives by calling for the bombing of the cities, on both sides. Again, though do gooders may claim otherwise, it was one of the bravest decisions any one man has had to make, and no doubt the hardest.

The germans were tried for orders given out to systematically eradicate the jews (and russians) from the planet. A policy created, and ordered by hitler and his henchmen, this is why they were tried and why they are war criminals and Churchill and Truman are not and never will be counted as war criminals. Raping, executing murdering. A far cry from anything Churchill and Truman did and its a bit sickening you compare them in the same breath...

RedTerex
11-27-2004, 02:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostGunner:
RedTerex I think you may have just added another log to the fire on your LIFEBOAT SURVIVORS POLL. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The sickos will be lined up for miles. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I know LOL, fuel it up !

Its all good fun at the end of the day and I thought that it would be a conclusive epilogue to this entire debate.
Thats what these forums are here for, to thrash it all out.
And if "sickos" input their vote in the negative responce then it just shows them up as players who like to play these games for the death and kill factor not the skill factor escaping and evading etc.
I know I might be a right pain in the ***, but someones got to be! Its called campaigning.
I would love to stand outside UBI HQ with a placard saying "we want lifeboats" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I would settle for phantom lifeboats that would be impervious to shellfire and I might send an e-mail to the Human Rights Commission in Brussels for displaying disregard for human life/survival and saftey in a simulated Naval War PC game.(j/k)

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2004, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
Churchill ordered bombing german cities in retaliation for english cities which were bombed, prior to this english did not target civilians. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But then the Allies went on to claim that only the Germans were guilty of war crimes. If the Allies felt that bombing civilians and destroying cities was okay, then they shouldn't have prosecuted the Germans for it. If, on the other hand, the Allies felt it was wrong, why did they bomb civilians?

You must apply moral equivalency. It is hypocrisy to apply different rules to your enemy than those you apply to yourself. If bombing civilians and destroying cities is wrong, it is still wrong even if you're doing it in retaliation. Civilians don't become combatants simply because a nation's military decides to commit war crimes: the German population was still civilian after the Germans dropped bombs on London.

As for Truman, his actions were completely inappropriate. He annihilated two cities and killed millions just to prevent the loss of military lives. There was no retaliation involved, so he couldn't claim that he was just responding in kind (as Churchill could). What Truman did was a blatant violation of all the rules of war - a first nuclear strike with no threat (or possibility) of retaliation. Not only was it illegal, but it was cowardly.

Yarrick_
11-27-2004, 08:24 AM
Does anybody of you know that Churchill had a bunker in London where he hided himself while the other citizens where bombed? I think that nowadays they made it a museum, Churchi'ls hiding place.
If anybody of you thought that a hero is a brave man, here you have this information. Heroes are not brave man. Brave man are those who get killed while walking through a mine field or who assault frontally a machine gun position, caonfusing it while their mates destroy it.
Heroes are the ones luky and intelligent enuogh to do a special action without being killed in the process.BUT The heroe's figure may be somebody who has his mates reciving the bullets and he is not aimed, then he is the only who survives, maybe by cowardice, and then he claims having done a great things.
For me, an "unknown soldier" is more important than somebody who recieves a meaningless medal.

RedTerex
11-27-2004, 08:26 AM
In warfare rules and regs go out of the window without a parachute!

Nicities, common decency, regard, civility, righteousness, sentiment, morality and other cool virtues evapourate in war.

Dropping an atomic bomb on your enemy is legitimate if it will end war plus give em some hell back for past disgretions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif LOL tooo right !

Dont get all tangled up in the lining of your underwear.
War just aint nice and trying to iron out the wrinkles to make it look respectable is rightminded but unrealistic !

If a demi-god said to me now;
"hehe, press this button and everyone in Faluja/Bahgdad will be incinerated in a millisecond"
I'de say " wheres the beers and peanuts?"
Reply from demi-god
"well never mind that, press the button, you dummy"
I'de look and frown at the demi-god and say
"but I already have"

so sue me

Pr0metheus 1962
11-27-2004, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
In warfare rules and regs go out of the window without a parachute! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realise that in practice, rules and morality go out the window. That's partially my point. My other point is that nations pretend to have rules for war, but these rules are applied PURELY for reasons of retaliation. Nations pretend the conventions for warfare are absolute rules to govern all conduct in war, but they ALWAYS enforce them with a blatant disregard for equivalency.

Rules for war - the Geneva Conventions, the Hague Conventions, the Nuremberg Tribunals - are a sham. That's my point. Governments fool the people into thinking that they are in the right, and they use international law (when it suits them) to show their citizens how right they are, but in war, all sides are criminals because war itself forces even the most ethical society to engage in criminal, sadistic, cowardly and immoral behaviour.

The problem is, if you publicly accept the reality, then you admit that total war is acceptable, and you have no moral basis for demonizing any aggressor, because aggression is then acceptable, because as soon as you engage in war (even as an aggressor) all morality is out the window and you can do ANYTHING (as long as you win). At that point, the winner is determined by who is most willing to destroy everything in pursuit of victory.

RedTerex
11-27-2004, 08:51 AM
I agree with your post Beeryus and emphisise that war and tribulation on these scales are horrid.

We play SH3 not to revell in vainglory, pain and death but the intrigue and exitement, the skill and appraisal in victories, plus its nice to see things blowing up!

LostGunner
11-27-2004, 09:20 AM
I'm begining to think the title of this thread should be changed to "Life-Boat POLL & OFF TOPIC SUBJECTS" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

RedTerex
11-27-2004, 09:27 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LostGunner:
I'm begining to think the title of this thread should be changed to "Life-Boat POLL & OFF TOPIC SUBJECTS" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/QUOTE

This thread has kinda lost the plot agreed, but aaw well its all fun and games at the end of the ol day ! Ya might as well just come along and join the party ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
11-27-2004, 09:52 AM
Party we must, Party we will.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/yahooinfinitesmall.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/party22.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Taskforce1x1/yahooinfinitesmall.gif

Dominicrigg
11-27-2004, 09:54 AM
Its an interesting discussion ~http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif it should be called the interesting discussion topic lol

First off i dont know where some of you get your ideas, churchill did not hide...

Since he was leader, in command of the armies he was in a bunker from which all british intelligence and war efforts were organised... Wouldnt it be stupid to put him in a street stall to do this?? Also the British people (and my grandmother was amongst them in london) were, whenever possible, moved to shelters also In the underground, out of town, to the countryside. What a ridiculous statement from you yarrick, seriously... Wonderfull how you turn heroes into cowards and the dead into martyres(sp) in the same post.

Also the British and americans did not try the Nazi leaders for bombing cities as a war crime im sorry to say, it was for slaughter of jews and other minorities, and a ruthless campaign of Arien(sp) superiority, slightly different. If only bombing cities had been the limit of their evil...

Finally what truman ordered after advice was not illegal (someone listens to modern day blurb too much) there is no such thing as an illegal action in war. There are things countries agree not to do, such as modern day agreement not to use flamethrowers. If you used one now in war then you would be a war criminal. There was no law against automic bomb use obviously, it was not "first strike" since they were at war with japan, and they had asked for their surrender several times which they refused.

It was not "just to save military lives" and also the automic bombs didnt kill millions (again no research done) it killed 35,000 in hiroshima, a terrible toll (and many more died from radiation, about 140,000 in total)

Now people cry 140,000 innocent people!! Women and children killed. Hauitsme would say "thats war, keep your morals" and in a way he would be right. Look at how many more would have died if the war had been allowed to go on. Shortsighted peaceniks unfortunately dont understand and dont have a grasp of the situation. Would you have been brave enough to order that bomb to be dropped? I dont think i would, but by doing it Truman is ****ed by people like you and saved the lives of hundreds of thousands through one historic decision. Yes men like Truman and Churchill are the heroes of last century, dont listen to any twisted viewpoints otherwise.

Deaths from Nagasaki Automic bomb

140,000 civilians & military.

Battle for the small island of Okinowa

12,000 American military
120,000 Japanese military
70,000 civilians of okinowa
2500+ Japanese "kamikaze" suicide pilots

Fewer then 200 japanese surrendered on Okinowa, now multiply that through the other islands and their homeland japan, then write your post again...

July 26th 1945 Potsdam declaration to japan

Allies ask Japan to surrender or face destruction.

Japanese military reaction "treat it with silent contempt" (the declaration)

Unfortunately in war the innocent people pay for the greed and stupidity of the leaders with their lives. If the decision had been up to the japanese people instead of the military leaders, then maybe there would have been no need for the bombings. Truman and Churchill war criminals... Sometimes i despair...

the stary word is C urse by the way, dont see why thats a bad word...

RedTerex
11-27-2004, 03:46 PM
Great post Dominicrigg ! very interesting reading you have obviously taken the time to do your homework.

Taskforce1x1, roflmao ! great Smillies haha and such a simple but welcomed humorous post !

This thread 5 months on and with over 6900 views seams to go on and on !

hauitsme
11-27-2004, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Dominicrigg:
You ask for lifeboats because its unrealistic without them, then you want to be able to do what you want with them without any result... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What result for what action?
After the war, which we have no prospect of EVER winning, no matter how well we do, it doesn't matter. It's DURING the war that I'm talking about. I've seen others wanting penalties against us shooting lifeboats AND leaving them to 'die', penalties/rewards for rescuing survivors AND not rescuing survivors. You can't have it both ways.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Dominicrigg:
Finally what truman ordered after advice was not illegal (someone listens to modern day blurb too much) there is no such thing as an illegal action in war. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How can there be 'war crimes' then? Only 'after the fact' and the war is over is it a 'crime'. While it's going on, you're given medals and promotions and called a hero.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Beeryus:
It is hypocrisy to apply different rules to your enemy than those you apply to yourself.
Rules for war - the Geneva Conventions, the Hague Conventions, the Nuremberg Tribunals - are a sham. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Too true! Only if you 'win' are they OK.

Dominicrigg
11-28-2004, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
How can there be 'war crimes' then? Only 'after the fact' and the war is over is it a 'crime'. While it's going on, you're given medals and promotions and called a hero.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok your scaring me now, can you truly be that naieve??

Can i ask which country you were educated in? Im not making fun, just interested in your ideas (which everyone is entitled to)

War crimes are a crime while the war is going on, not after the war. The only thing is, its a little hard to try a leader for war crimes when they are at war, you understand?

Most germans did not know about the war crimes Hitler and his cronies were perpetrating, the allies had to take many out to the camps at wars end and show them. Also most other nations did not realise the extent of the actions untill the camps were found.

If these were Heroic actions, why did they not tell the people of germany what they were doing? Why was it not proudly broadcast to the world, when they had the shows saying, "today we shot down 25 british aircraft" Why did they not add "and gassed 4000 jews" ???

Because they were war crimes...

A war crime is breaking the laws of war which are agreed by all nations prior to war. A war crime is when every sane person realises what was done did NO good at all and was needless.

If you want to look at things on a basic level and construe things then yes Truman could be classed as a war criminal for dropping a bomb on a city with innocent people in it. Take just one aspect of the act and anyone can be made a war criminal.

The sentancing is done by objectively looking at the occurance and deciding if it was a crime or not.

Hitler's crime was genocide. Because of self beliefs and hatred.

Trumans crime to bomb 2 cities in the hope of saving more lives then would be lost (see my previous post, also not choice he created)

Churchills crime (im guessing this is what you mean) ordering (under advice) bombing cities in reaction to escalation of bombing on civilian areas in a "keep up or lose the war" bombing campaign.

I really dont understand your mentality, are you pro nazi, anti allies, pro life, anti war, anti establishment, confused, inspired by some higher force.

Are you really sugesting that these two should also have been tried,convicted and hung for war crimes?

Again as with the jet engine you can have last say, as i have said all i can. Would be nice to understand your thought process...

Dominicrigg
11-28-2004, 04:11 AM
ps to clear up my stand on lifeboats

YES lifeboats would be nice after all other things.

NO i dont think they are important, they dont excite me much and my imagination can put in what happens to the people onboard.. I dont need to know all the details.

YES if you have lifeboats in then make them so you can interact.

IF you can blow up lifeboats there should be a punishment as real life as its wholly pointless having them otherwise.

IF you have in lifeboats they should NOT be invincible or they spoil the game and make it unrealistic.

There are a million and one other things which are far cooler and i would rather see then time wasted on lifeboats.

If you asked me :

Extra ships or lifeboats?
More weather effects or lifeboats?
More ship damage visible or lifeboats?
Better music or lifeboats?
Replay option or lifeboats?
Historical info included to watch/read or lifeboats?
More aircraft or lifeboats?
"Sea life" or lifeboats?
Less bugs on release or lifeboats?

The answer to all the above would NOT be lifeboats, just to clue you in on their importance to me.

RedTerex
11-28-2004, 09:13 AM
Let me be so bold as to make a slight correction in your list:

Extra ships and lifeboats?
More weather effects and lifeboats?
More ship damage visible and lifeboats?
Better music and lifeboats?
Replay option and lifeboats?
Historical info included to watch/read and lifeboats?
More aircraft and lifeboats?
"Sea life" and lifeboats?
Less bugs on release and lifeboats

There ! and its possible, its the 21st century now not the dark ages !

Pr0metheus 1962
11-28-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
If you want to look at things on a basic level and construe things then yes Truman could be classed as a war criminal for dropping a bomb on a city with innocent people in it. Take just one aspect of the act and anyone can be made a war criminal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By 'look at things on a basic level and construe things' I'm assuming you must mean 'look at the facts and tell the truth about them'.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Trumans crime to bomb 2 cities in the hope of saving more lives then would be lost (see my previous post, also not choice he created) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't absolve him of the crime. Bombing civilians - whatever your motive - is a war crime. How many lives you save is irrelevant. In fact, Truman probably killed many more people than he saved.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Churchills crime (im guessing this is what you mean) ordering (under advice) bombing cities in reaction to escalation of bombing on civilian areas in a "keep up or lose the war" bombing campaign. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A rather big assumption to make, especially since terror bombing usually helps civilian morale more than it hurts it. Anyway, even if your assumption was right, it doesn't make the act any less criminal.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I really dont understand your mentality, are you pro nazi, anti allies, pro life, anti war, anti establishment, confused, inspired by some higher force. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realise this isn't directed at me, but I'll answer it for myself anyway, since I'm making a similar argument: I am pro-life, anti-war, anti-establishment, anti-nazi.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Are you really sugesting that these two should also have been tried,convicted and hung for war crimes? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Churchill and Truman? Absolutely not. I don't think anyone should be hanged for war crimes. My point is that war crimes trials are shams because EVERY nation commits war crimes. War itself is a crime, whether you're acting as a defender or as an aggressor. However, if you sign treaties to make certain acts illegal, you should be prepared to accept the consequences when you commit those acts. Churchill and Truman should have given themselves up for trial based on the treaties they signed. That was their responsibility. Any other course of action was cowardly. But they didn't accept responsibility for their actions.

Jose.MaC
11-28-2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
The germans were tried for orders given out to systematically eradicate the jews (and russians) from the planet. A policy created, and ordered by hitler and his henchmen, this is why they were tried and why they are war criminals and Churchill and Truman are not and never will be counted as war criminals. Raping, executing murdering. A far cry from anything Churchill and Truman did and its a bit sickening you compare them in the same breath... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember gipsies. They got even worst treatment than jews. And was really difficult, even for nazis.

Jose.MaC
11-28-2004, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
War itself is a crime, whether you're acting as a defender or as an aggressor. However, if you sign treaties to make certain acts illegal, you should be prepared to accept the consequences when you commit those acts. Churchill and Truman should have given themselves up for trial based on the treaties they signed. That was their responsibility. Any other course of action was cowardly. But they didn't accept responsibility for their actions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't understand why defending against an agressor means automatically that you're a criminal.

jensofswede2004
11-29-2004, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:


To Beeryus, ahh i understand. Good point, and i would agree then, the country can say who is a war hero. But HISTORY will see the truth.

Your example of truman and churchill i have to disagree with and so would 1000s of historians.

Churchill ordered bombing german cities in retaliation for english cities which were bombed, prior to this english did not target civilians. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason why the two sides began bombing civilian tagets is that a few german airplanes accidentally bombed London during a night raid. They got lost and dropped on the wrong site. They did little or no damage, not even killing anyone.

But Churchill quickly took advantage of that and ordered a bomb raid on Berlin in retaliation. Dumb as he was, G√¬∂ring was outraged about that and interfered in the Luftwaffes strategic plan of bombing military targets such as airfields and factories. G√¬∂rings decision to concentrate attacks on english cities to avenge the Berlin raid might be the single most important turning point in ww2.

G√¬∂rings pride actually saved the RAF from total annihilation and therefore saved england from invasion. Had england been invaded, the US would not had any chance of conducting a succesful campaign against germany.

So...Churchill's deliberate decision to bomb civilians in Berlin is a crime (in my eyes) but it might have saved the allies from defeat.

As for crimes against humanity, the western allies actually did some too. Nearly 900 000 german POW and civilians were either starved to death or were purposely not given medical attention in the huge camps the allies had set up in France and Belgium. This was mainly the work of Eisenhower and Roosevelt (with support of the french - the brittish were not involved).

As for the Russians, I don't think I need to paint a picture of their numerous and systematic war crimes. It's just a bit ironic that the german leadership was tried for the start of aggressive war against Poland when the russian did the same and occupied the eastern part of Poland in cooperation with germany (not forgetting russia's aggressive attack on Finland and occupation of the three baltic states and Moldavia).

England and France went to war for Poland in 1939 but in 1945 that seemed to be forgotten, leaving the hole eastern Europe in the hands of Stalin. Tragic...

Pr0metheus 1962
11-29-2004, 03:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jose.MaC:
Can't understand why defending against an agressor means automatically that you're a criminal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you go to war, you're bound to commit criminal acts. That's the nature of war. It really has nothing to do with defending yourself. War is always an aggressive act. You can lie to yourself and pretend it's defensive, but it really isn't.

Messervy
11-29-2004, 04:52 AM
to jensofswede2004 and Beeryus

Amen!

Concidering the nature of a modern warfare it is virtualy impossible to conduct a war believing that you are "Clean"! NO ONE can claim it! Those who do are delusional and they ought to be shot just for believing that this is actually possible.
War was relatively "clean" in 18th century when two armys met on the field and slaughter themselves, since than it is just a very good reflection of a human mind and soul.
We do it all the time and we will never stop doing it.
Sometimes in a midst of all high speaking politicians,seling their ****, one might even concider the total war ( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.giftotale Krieg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif) to be the only decent way of a warfare - the one that suits this homo SAPIENS pefectly since this so called self entitled SAPIENS can`t even cope with it.

He wants morality where there should be none.
He commits attrocities unbenown to the animal kingdoome.
He invents the religions and than fights wars in the name of god.....
and than this miserable creature cries for justice, compation....???
The history has proven just one thing...God is allways on the side of stronger troops - animals can cope with that, we obviously can`t.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-29-2004, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
He commits attrocities unbenown to the animal kingdoome. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with everything you said except for this. Chimpanzees are known to fight wars. There have been lions that killed for sport. We are not the only animal that wars, and that kills for fun. We are ourselves, after all, just animals.

RedTerex
11-29-2004, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:

...Chimpanzees are known to fight wars. There have been lions that killed for sport... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true,
I watched a survival programme presented and narrated by David Attenbrough about this very topic.
I watched as a Lioness went over and killed a Leopards cubs for no apparent reason as it certainly didnt eat them it just left them and walked off.
A fight in the jungle between two troops of Chimps was interesting, one Chimp was cornered in a high tree and was thrown to the ground where it died.
They were fighting over territory, just like we do !

bertgang
11-29-2004, 07:19 AM
We are strange animals, and our attidude changes upon circumstances; wartime gives us more ways to be fighting animals than pacetime.

The job of a soldier at war is to commit multiple murders of foreigns, whenever possible; he is forced by law!
But pacetime laws says the opposite.

A real strange thing is that war allows not only the murder of enemy, that's quite natural, but of your soldiers too.
WWI shows a lot of so called "castles generals" - like Cadorna, Foch and others - who had the right to order massive suicidal attacks against fortified trenches, thinking that even a marginal victory was priceless: a madness!

hauitsme
11-29-2004, 11:48 PM
Ye haw! Aint this fun?!!!

When you see that big, fat Troop ship dead in your sights, doesn't that just get your heart racing?!!

And you never even think about the actual carnage you're about to unleash. If you do, get transfered to a desk job.

RedTerex
11-30-2004, 12:45 AM
The carnage Hauitsme is reffering to is something like this.

1.The torpedo hits the ship.
2.The explosion kills many inside the bulkheads instantly, many others are blown apart limb from limb to die a couple of minutes later, whilst others in the vicinity are seriously injured still alive but with horrendous wounds.
3.The fires that now spread internally, sear, scorch and otherwise burn many other occupants of the ship many burn to death, some suffocate in the toxic fumes and smoke.
4.As the ship sinks a vast amount caught below decks start to drown as they panic to get out, but the water rushes in too fast through the 20 foot by 15 foot hole the torpedo made.
5.Fuel oil pours out by the ton onto the surface of the sea and many who managed to escape the sinking ship now suffocate in it.
6.The fuel oil ignites by the tremendous heat given off by the burning ship areas of which are totally engulfed in flames and now those swamped and saturated in the oil also ignite and burn on the surface along with the oil as they drown.
7.Many occupants who escaped all of the above simply drown if they are weak or non swimmers or were injured, broken legs, arms etc.
8.Those who survive all of the above terror now start to freeze to death in the below zero cold sea.
9.secondary explosions as the ship errupts kill many in the vicinity either aboard or in the Sea.
10. As the wreck sinks many are sucked down with the vacuum the wreck makes as it submerges, they drown.
11.A handful manage to get into a lifeboat or atop a liferaft or wear lifvests and...er...ooops...sorry No lifeboats/lifrafts/lifevests so they die as well.
WELCOME TO SILENT HUNTER 3

The above is not intentionaly meant as an anti-SH3 post, I am merely illustrating what happens in war from books, net articles, films, documentaries, autobiographies, accounts etc.

RedTerex
01-02-2005, 04:11 AM
People are saying that the forum is boring.
Well, what better way to liven it up but by bringing back this old nutshell of a thread..ooh yes.
Shout n scream, pull yer hair out, make faces at yer monitor, get flaming...its back !

Controversy at its best, guaranteed to liven up any forum.

This will put life back into SH3 forums.

February 25th is just around the corner and soon we will be sinking enemy ships and notching up our victories against the allies as they desperatley try to get supplies across the atlantic to stop England from starving.

Troop ships, merchant ships, warships you name it, you'll sink it...but what about the survivors of those ships in this war about to be unleashed in the 3rd exciting installment of SH3..shall they all drown or will lifeboats come to their rescue?

Will they be added?, will they be 'patched' in, will they be an easter egg, will they be modded at a later date by private parties?

lifeboats for ever !

Dominicrigg
01-02-2005, 05:23 AM
**Burp**

Who still likes turkey? Im sick of it, i dont want to see another turkey for... well at least a year! Do they eat turkey in germany too? and spain?

meh **goes back to bed**

HeibgesU999
01-02-2005, 07:53 AM
Saying that Chimpanzees fight wars, is like saying a pack of wolves fights war. Being territorial is different than fighting a war.

But I will agree warfare takes place in nature. There are 6 species of ant, and 1 species of termite which also wage expansionist warfare.

Perhaps the missing link is actually between insect and man.

Pr0metheus 1962
01-02-2005, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
Saying that Chimpanzees fight wars, is like saying a pack of wolves fights war. Being territorial is different than fighting a war. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chimpanzees aren't merely territorial. Their battles are not merely fought instinctively. They fight wars for more than just territory. They engage in blood feuds; they employ death squads; they kill for sport; they murder; they terrorize; they use weapons. Wolves do none of those things.

SailorSteve
01-02-2005, 07:00 PM
I know a cat who likes to torture mice. She'll let them run far enough to think they've escaped, then she'll drag them back and do it again. When she tires of that game, she'll then eviscerate them, with one claw, slowly ripping the stomach open. After several minutes of screaming, when the mouse finally dies she'll go off to find some new game. She's not hungry, just bored.

I once walked in to find this same cat lying on the floor, apparently dead-eyes and mouth both half open, front and rear legs crossed. When I touched her to see if she was warm she immediately sat up and started purring. Then, when I started to leave, she lay down in exactly the same position, waiting for her next victim.

Sockeye45
01-02-2005, 07:05 PM
Saigon... sh*t... I'm still only in Saigon

hauitsme
03-08-2005, 01:22 AM
Perhaps they aren't quite 'dead'. There may be more than meets the eye to the following. Maybe it (the LIFEBOAT) can be manipulated in some way to become 'solid' and useable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Warren_537:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hauitsme:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There were <span class="ev_code_yellow">lifeboats</span>, trucks and various items flying everywhere! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Were they actually 3D(modelled)? Maybe not all is lost in our search for truth, justice, and the 'reality' way! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They were all 3d modelled but were empty at all times. I never saw a lifeboat floating after a vessel had gone down, these were just lifeboats that whilst part of the ships model, acted independantly when an explosion took place. Hope that makes sense, it's 05.15 and I am about to leave for work http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TASKFORCE1x1
03-08-2005, 09:21 AM
Ohhh oooo, Here we go again. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedTerex
03-08-2005, 09:42 AM
I think that a Mod in the future or even a patch of some description may insert Lifeboats into SH3.
Either way it will be a 3rd party programme, Ubi wont have anything to do with it !

Yog_Shoggoth
03-08-2005, 03:28 PM
Wouldn't it be worse to not have lifeboats? Not having the lightboats means all hands went down with the ship, doesn't it?

banzai_alex
03-08-2005, 03:44 PM
Not having lifeboats means ull never see the crew. Having lifeboats will be a major tax on disk space, and the game will end up with a M rating. And it doesnt matter now does it?!?