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View Full Version : George "Buzz" Beurling a great fighter ace?!?!



DIRTY-MAC
11-29-2005, 07:31 AM
maybe he was a great ace but....
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/beurling/beurling.htm

JG52Uther
11-29-2005, 09:59 AM
So whats the problem?

joeap
11-29-2005, 10:42 AM
Would not have wanted him on my squadron. High scoring, lone wolf aces did not win the war. Hartmann did not win the war either, but he kept his wingmen alive and was team player. Buzz also liked it a bit too much but hey so did Patton.

Rattler68
11-29-2005, 10:45 AM
Yes, "Buzz" was a loner. He hated the trappings of authority. He once defied J.E. Johnston , CO of 403 Sqn., when he asked permission to do a slow roll over the base, was refused, and then did it anyway. Would I want him as my wingman, no. Would I want to be his wingman, any day! He is much like an infantry sniper: reclusive. I never got along with those guys in the army either, and they don't often want to get along with people. He just wanted to shoot down enemy aircraft.

BSS_Goat
11-29-2005, 11:03 AM
Not sure I would want him in my squadron, but I d@mn sure wouldn't want him in the enemy squadron I was facing.

Waldo.Pepper
11-29-2005, 11:41 AM
In his own words.

http://archives.cbc.ca/400d.asp?id=1-71-177-990-11

Daiichidoku
11-29-2005, 12:06 PM
i like the story about how when he was reprimanded for leaving formation to attack enemy ac

later, as tail-end-charlie, he spotted some dots in the distance, behind, in his rear-view mirror

he looped over, left formation, bagged a couple of kills and returned to formation, none the wiser, til RTB

Retrofish
11-29-2005, 12:15 PM
"his own words" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"...I wanted to fly since I was...'page flipping sound'...six years old.."

Interesting though. Thanks.

Clan_Graham
11-29-2005, 12:46 PM
It's a shame how things turned out for him after the war.
And how he died.

telsono
11-29-2005, 03:51 PM
joeap - Patton was a prima dona, not a lone wolf. He had less men killed for mile gained then almost any other Allied commander. Read Carlo d'Este's "A Genius for War", probably the definitive biography of Patton. Patton was as much the teacher as he was a warrior. He trained his troops to be able to perform the tasks needed of them.

Beurling was a lone wolf not a team player. He was a throwback to the aces of WWI, possibly on the par with Mick Mannock and the like. When he was sent to train pilots on gunnery, he couldn't as his technique was based upon instinct as it was skill. Using the correct gunnery methods he couldn't hit anything, but using his unorthodox method he was near perfrect. He certainly wasn't a Pat Pattle.

Waldo.Pepper
11-29-2005, 04:38 PM
To stray just a little further off topis for a moment... Patton while certainly a prima donna, and combat effective, had some signifigant problems as well.

As a child, under the age of ten, he and a Sister found a dead animal in the backyard. While the Sister waited he ran in the the house and returned shortly thereafter having made some sandwitches. At his urging he and his Sister stood there and ate the sandwitches while looking at the dead animal. At that age he already knew he wanted a military career and took the opportunity to toughen himself up for his future.

There are other incidents like that, one time during his education at West Point he drew his revolver inappropriately on a civilian, and was reprimaded for it.

telsono
11-29-2005, 05:31 PM
Waldo - Patton certainly had alot of problems growing up. I believe that he was confused by his father's stories of the "Patton Family Military Tradition" and the ways of the "Southern Gentleman". At the same time he was living on the property that his maternal grandfather built, but not allowed to learned the accomplishments of that man, a mountain man who made himself vey well in California.
Taught prejudice by his father, but raised by a loving Mexican nanny. The love poems that he wrote to his fiance were found by his father who called them things that a man doesn't do. His father above all others tried to shape him into a soldier to fulfill famly tradition. For one thing, the Pattons helped found VMI and there must always be a Patton there. George Patton didn't have a normal upbringing parts of his character were suffocated by his father since they didn't fit the mold that he had for George.
I don't make any excuses for him as he was flawed, but he had a certain genius and was a good teacher of men.

Daiichidoku
11-29-2005, 05:41 PM
and after all that he get paralyzed in a car accident http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

spitzfiya
11-30-2005, 12:35 PM
Gorge Bureling Is most definitley my favorite Ace, I acctually like the fact he thought differently then most pilots...I though it was out of the ordinary and cool. I would love to be his wingman...I dunno why

If you have read Malta Spitfire you will know what I mean. Very interesting book.

He was a great Fighter Ace, That was his life, he was meant to be a Fighter Ace straight from the beggining. Sure Hartmann shot down tons of aricraft....but Gorge did it with a sense of style/passion/personality.

Id trade my life for his anyday lol

Hes awesome

huggy87
12-02-2005, 09:11 PM
He seemed quite humble in "malta spitfire". He actually apologized for his behaviour with an earlier squadron.

EPP_Gibbs
12-04-2005, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
and after all that he get paralyzed in a car accident http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Top sig, man. Top sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
12-04-2005, 09:22 PM
I think Beurling is perhaps the sort you want on your side because you know that when you meet the enemy he's going to take them out....but you might as well allocate him his own flight of one and let him tag along with another flight of 4.

While I'm a great proponent of the wingman method...some of the aces were somewhat eccentric and what they really needed was enough confusion for them to wreak their own personalized havoc on the enemy.

Rattler68
12-06-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
Would not have wanted him on my squadron. High scoring, lone wolf aces did not win the war. Hartmann did not win the war either, but he kept his wingmen alive and was team player. Buzz also liked it a bit too much but hey so did Patton.
How can one compare Patton, a commander of 1000's of troops, with a fighter pilot who never wanted to command anyone! A more fair comparison would be Patton and Spaatz, or Patton and Adm. Halsey. I would agree with Beurling and Hartmann, but not the others.

CornbreadPattie
12-06-2005, 12:21 PM
Eh he sounds much like me.

I feel like that. I don't give a sh-t about sides, I just like to shoot. Don't give a sh-t about authority, just like to fly and fight. I don't have much respect for flying units or air forces, I just like to use their planes and ammo. Wouldn't want to be his wingman, but I could relate to BEING in his shoes.

War? - what war. Let's go for a thrill ride.


edit: did I say not much respect? i meant NONE.

-HH-Quazi
12-06-2005, 12:59 PM
Sounds like a dangerous man, and not from the enemys standpoint. Losing a wingman for nearly every kill he got? It's a wonder one of his surving wingmen didn't put a piece of lead in his rump with his pistol. "Yea, I got 32 kills but I lost 30 wingmen getting those kills. Darn screwballs."

telsono
12-06-2005, 01:07 PM
Beurling was a maverick in the true sense. He was apart from the herd doing the things his own way. He might have worked better in the Japanese air forces where team work was not emphasized as much as the warrior spirit of the individual pilot.
As I mentioned previously, Beurling was a lone wolf and probably resembled more the WWI pilots like Mannock, Guynemer, etc. just patrolling the front looking for an enemy to pounce upon.
He was a gifted pilot, but the times had changed and the "enfant terrible" just didn't fit anymore. This is especially true when the climate of the war had changed and the need for a nonconformist was there as well. "Pappy" Boyington was in the same mold, but luckily we Americans have a greater tolerance for the unorthodox.
I would put Beurling as a true hero. The rugged individualist that didn't fit in with the change in the world around him. We tend to throw away our heroes when we don't need them anymore. The air war in late 1944 had the allies in control. Pilots were coming off the training units like free flowing water. The dark days of BoB and Malta were gone, when every hand was needed. Antics that were ignored in the 1941 were not allowed in 1944-45.

Low_Flyer_MkII
12-06-2005, 03:33 PM
Mannock was actually a very good instructor. He was known to take up new pilots, show them how to shoot up German aircraft by, er, shooting them up, then signal to the rookie to finish them off - giving the new pilot the confidence of his first kill. Mannock's final tally would have been higher but for this practice.

Beurling though, what a strange character - a great fighter ace? Yes. A team player? No.