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View Full Version : *From Oleg, about planes with automatic superchargers. Please Read.*



Hunde_3.JG51
12-01-2004, 07:07 AM
Got a response from Oleg that explains the reason for oddities in speed with FW-190. The problem is bigger than I had suspected. Great job by Oleg and crew to take the time to find this.

"We found global "bug". The speed curves modelled in a sim with the planes that have automatic superchargers switches at altitudes has a "hole" right near the switch to the second stage . So such decreasing of speed on altitudes that are the altitudes of the 1st stage switch is present for all aircraft that have automatic 2+ stages superchargers modelled and in additional using any special engine boost modes. Say it isn't present for Bf109s that has hygrocoupler in supercharger or for planes with manual control of supercharger.
This all above means that we found where it is and need to make new formulas for this case. This will take a time and probably will be in the add-on or next patch present. This will affect 1/3 planes in the sim.
3) Reading all above, you should also understand that the real curves that present for many planes as a trial data are taken by following method:
They take the maximal speeds measurments only for 2-3 altitudes. All other points calculated with simple formula using the engine power modes curves. Please be sure that Nobody in the wold make the speed tests for each 200 meters of altitude... The real method - as I just told you.
Using more complex formulas of moder time and apply them to the data of WWII time may have distortions... Because WWII tiome data itself has a lot of distortions due to present ther methods of calculations and measurements.
So.... the decreasing of speed there should in that point. However not the same as we have, but less.

We don't cosider it as our bug, becasue we use more precise methods for calculations than in WWII for such things, however as we think the result shoudl be somewhere in between.

So wait the changes and don't play on 2,700-3,000 meters on FW190s (from A6 to D-9) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif On other altitudes it is very precise."



Just wanted to say thanks to Oleg and crew again for taking the time to locate the problem. It is amazing that we have a developer that we can communicate with and who will listen.

Thanks Oleg and team.

Hetzer_II
12-01-2004, 07:12 AM
Ok, no more words for this than:

Thanks Oleg and team!

JG53Frankyboy
12-01-2004, 07:26 AM
so it should also have an effect on:
SpitfireIX & VIII
P-51s
P-63

correct ?

Zen--
12-01-2004, 07:40 AM
Nice work Hunde
<S>

Sig.Hirsch
12-01-2004, 07:43 AM
yea , i had the same answer too by Oleg , and i have to say he's really a nice guy and we are lucky to have a developper like that , kind and careful about his job :

"We will check, however read here the answer for the user that found the same
thing on Mustang (and one other on A-8):


We found global "bug". The speed curves modelled in a sim with the planes
that have automatic superchargers switches at altitudes have a "hole" right
near the switch to the second stage . So such decreasing of speed on
altitudes that are the altitudes of the 1st stage switch is present for all
aircraft that have automatic 2+ stages superchargers modelled and in
additional using any special engine boost modes. Say it isn't present for
Bf109s that has hygrocoupler in supercharger or for planes with manual
control of supercharger.
This all above means that we found where it is and need to make new formulas
for this case. This will take a time and probably will be in the add-on or
next patch present. This will affect 1/3 planes in the sim.
Reading all above, you should also understand that the real curves that
present for many planes as a trial data are taken by following method:
They take the maximal speeds measurments only for 2-3 altitudes. All other
points calculated with simple formula using the engine power modes curves.
Please be sure that Nobody in the wold make the speed tests for each 200
meters of altitude... The real method - as I just told you.
Using more complex formulas of modern time and apply them to the data of
WWII time may have distortions... Because WWII time data itself has a lot of
distortions due to present there methods of calculations and measurements.
So.... the decreasing of speed there should be in that point. However not
the same as we have, but less.

We don't cosider it as our bug, becasue we use more precise methods for
calculations than in WWII time for such things, however as we think the
result shoudl be somewhere in between."

Thanks a lot Oleg and 1:C

chris455
12-01-2004, 07:44 AM
Help me out here-
We're looking forward to an increase or decrease in performnace at the stated altitudes?

Willey
12-01-2004, 07:46 AM
This will also fix the Ta-152 5-7k performance. Nice one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hetzer_II
12-01-2004, 07:51 AM
Yeah Willey that was my first thought.... and also D9 can have a boost from it ;-)

ucanfly
12-01-2004, 08:53 AM
Wow - talk about dedication and attention to detail! Thank you Oleg and team!

ZG77_Lignite
12-01-2004, 10:20 AM
That is good news, thanks to all for the mature and correct way to accomplish something (see results).

Hunde_3.JG51
12-01-2004, 10:22 AM
"So such decreasing of speed on altitudes that are the altitudes of the 1st stage switch is present for all aircraft that have automatic 2+ stages superchargers modelled and in additional using any special engine boost modes."

Chris, expect an increase in performance at the critical altitudes near where supercharger switches over.

The only thing I don't understand is that I tested the P-51D at 3,000m and got 660km/h, that is moving. I'm not sure where the supercharger switches over though so I can't say. I think when I tested before the Mustang D hit 660-670km/h at that altitude so maybe it did lose 10km/h. I also don't understand why A-8 for example lost 30+km/h while the A-9 seemed only about 7-10km/h slower. I am sure it will get worked out either way so its cool. I'm just glad Oleg and team took the time to check this out, good stuff.

Bearcat99
12-01-2004, 01:54 PM
Where did you find this at?

The saddest part... and the thing that has me so upset is.... when i first started to come here Oleg used to put stuff like that in here. That was one of the many things that made me say "Wow!!" about this franchise... now we have to get stuff from all around ****'s hatband... and I cant help but think that it is because of some of the people in here. To his credit though it is great to see that even inspite of all the ********s he is still working to constanly imrove and twealk the masterpiece that is this sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Kwiatos
12-01-2004, 02:36 PM
What about planes with 1-stage supercharger like P-39, P-40 with Alison engines and others similar which dont loose noticable their performance at high altitude?

faustnik
12-01-2004, 02:43 PM
Nice work Hunde!!!!

Thanks from all the Fw190 pilots! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


You da man.

robban75
12-01-2004, 02:55 PM
Indeed, outstanding job Hunde! And a big thanks to Oleg and team aswell for their dedication!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
12-01-2004, 03:46 PM
Bearcat wrote:

"Where did you find this at?"

In my Inbox http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

"... now we have to get stuff from all around ****'s hatband...

Not sure what this means, or if I should be offended by it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

"... and I cant help but think that it is because of some of the people in here."

Nothing to think about, that is the reason. The funny part is that it seems like these are the people that Oleg responds to on these forums http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. I never could figure that one out.

"To his credit though it is great to see that even inspite of all the ********s he is still working to constanly imrove and tweak the masterpiece that is this sim."

Definitely, I can't believe Oleg takes as much time as he does to address our concerns. His responses to my questions alone must have taken quite some time, and I am sure there are many others. I can't imagine how much time, and how much of himself he has put into his work. Pretty amazing support, support you are not likely to see in a time when corporate blanket statements and automated representatives seem to be the norm. We are lucky as hell, be sure.

AlmightyTallest
12-01-2004, 04:50 PM
Find the bugs... then squish 'em. Even adds in more realism while the man is at it too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the info, excellent work! And thanks Oleg and team for taking pride in your work and adding additional quality into your flight sims.

Bearcat99
12-01-2004, 06:27 PM
LMAO!!!! I wrote all around Dicks hatband.. which was something my grandfather used to say to signify going all around the bush, you know getting info from anywhere and everywhere other than here.. dont be insulted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif... thats some in box you got there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif..... I guess **** had a very big head...LOL.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif the filter censored out the name ****.... LMAO.. or Richard... LOL... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

tenmmike
12-01-2004, 07:53 PM
dicks hat band came from the **** tracy cartoon , no matter what happened to D TRACY his hat never came off thus "tighter then dicks hatband" I.E BEARCAT held his joystick tighter then dicks hatband as TENMMIKE was shooting him down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
12-01-2004, 08:12 PM
This is getting obscene http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. I knew what you were saying Bearcat, I was just being goofy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif.

Kwiatos, it would not affect P-40 and P-39 from my understanding because I think he said the planes have to have automatic supercharger and special boost. No special boost for Warhawk and Airacobra. Just my take.

I'm not sure why Oleg said from "A-6 to D-9" though, and left out the A-5 and Ta-152, probably just an oversight. The A-4 didn't have special boost so that is why it is not included. Again, that is how I took it. Still, that wouldn't seem to cover 1/3rd of the planes in the game (FW-190, P-51, P-47, Spitfire, P-38, etc., but not Corsair, Zero, Yak, Lagg/La, Ki-84, B-25, A-20, P-40, P-39, I-16, I-153, Wildcat, Hellcat, IL-2, Bf-109 (as per Oleg), Ju-87, all the jets, etc.).

JG53Frankyboy
12-02-2004, 03:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
This is getting obscene http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. I knew what you were saying Bearcat, I was just being goofy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif.

Kwiatos, it would not affect P-40 and P-39 from my understanding because I think he said the planes have to have automatic supercharger and special boost. No special boost for Warhawk and Airacobra. Just my take.

I'm not sure why Oleg said from "A-6 to D-9" though, and left out the A-5 and Ta-152, probably just an oversight. The A-4 didn't have special boost so that is why it is not included. Again, that is how I took it. Still, that wouldn't seem to cover 1/3rd of the planes in the game (FW-190, P-51, P-47, Spitfire, P-38, etc., but not Corsair, Zero, Yak, Lagg/La, Ki-84, B-25, A-20, P-40, P-39, I-16, I-153, Wildcat, Hellcat, IL-2, Bf-109 (as per Oleg), Ju-87, all the jets, etc.). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ups , the "special boost" thing i didnt saw http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

so, it should effect:
Fw190A5/-6/-8/-9
Fw190F8
Fw190D9'44/-9'45
Ta152H-1
SpitfireMk.VIII
SpitfireMk.IX
P-51B/C/D

these planes in game (flyable) have more than one supercharger setting (speeds and/ore stages) that are shifted automaticly and have a special boost.

P-47 shoud have another system with their Turbochargers . but actually we will see . and its realy alwasy a joy to see how oleg is still mantaining this now, in its basics, over 3 year old game.

Enofinu
12-02-2004, 03:03 PM
Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!!

Diablo310th
12-02-2004, 05:07 PM
Hunde......great find. Wow!! that means more power at that point for my Jug. Wooo Hooo. HeinzeBar...better keep that Dora away from my Jug now..and VonHeide( oops Heidie) that G10 just lost a little more now. heheheheh ~S~ guys

VF-29_Sandman
12-02-2004, 07:57 PM
think it would be wiser to any and all tests according to oleg's methods at least 3 times, compare, then report as he'd do the same thing before slammin the guy with 'my plane is (fill in blank with term)'. obviously it gets better results.
what is the official 'oleg tests'? i've even screwed up the tests by flying the wrong map/time of day. if it wasnt for oleg takin the time to even investigate plane a to b, we'd wind up with cfs xx, and there's entirely too much 'oleg slammin' with each patch now. if that dont stop, i wouldnt blame oleg for sayin 'live with it'.

Loki-PF
12-02-2004, 08:10 PM
Hunde,

Great work pal! Thanks for keeping us informed!

Hunde_3.JG51
12-02-2004, 09:26 PM
Sandman,

Test conditions should be:

-Crimea map.
-12:00pm (default in QMB).
-Flying over water with same heading for each test.
-Radiator closed (not auto)
-100% fuel.
-Default armament.
-Auto prop-pitch if available, 100% manual if not.
-Make sure supercharger is at stage one
-Check fuel mix.
-Use True Airspeed (TAS) by switching to no-cockpit view.

WUAF_Badsight
12-03-2004, 01:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Nice work Hunde!!!!

Thanks from all the Fw190 pilots! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


You da man. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
eh eh eh

oh , & TY to the Maddox Games staff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif