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View Full Version : Need to buff up the Brits...



dan-1993uk
09-21-2010, 08:16 PM
Eugen need to add content for the UK their strength is air and you can win with air alone I like them and I win with them a lot but thier tanks can stand up. the cromwell is as good as a sherman and T-34 but they have no real good heavy tank the Matilda sucks the church hill is good anyway i was thinking why not add a centurion tank for them seeing as it was made in the 1945 to buff their ground a bit

dan-1993uk
09-21-2010, 08:19 PM
maybe a comet aswell just to make them better?

Warforger
09-21-2010, 08:44 PM
I haven't played the UK yet, but out of all the races I've played the Italians really need a buff, I mean seriously, their recon are foot soldiers.......

Wartactics
09-21-2010, 09:08 PM
Quote by "Rock"

Scissors are OK, nerf paper.

Axe99
09-21-2010, 09:20 PM
Totally agree - as per my post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1016188/m/1201065388 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7471016188/m/1201065388)

aod125
09-21-2010, 11:04 PM
use fireflys

Axe99
09-22-2010, 12:35 AM
Fireflys can't match the range of Pershings or Tigers. If the tanks are backed by a 6+ group of M-19s or Whirbelwinds, and supported by recon, it's pretty close to unstoppable.

aod125
09-22-2010, 12:51 AM
wrong they have the same range

Axe99
09-22-2010, 01:05 AM
They most absolutely do not! Select a Tiger or Pershing, and look at the red circle that goes out, then select your firefly (with recon present) and compare the two - it's chalk and cheese.

aod125
09-22-2010, 01:21 AM
go look at the unit viewer they both say 500

Axe99
09-22-2010, 03:06 AM
It's all well and good what the unit viewer says, but out on the field, the range of the Firefly is the same as that of the Archer, and they're both well below the ranges of the Pershing. Trust me, I've spent the better part of the day getting into the UK's units, and the Firefly and Archer are almost pointless against armour that can 'see' them (ie, has recon), as they armour just sits outside the range of the units and knocks them out.

GunnersMate07
09-22-2010, 05:55 AM
The firefly most definitely has the same range as the pershing and tiger. Not to mention it is MUCH cheaper and also does more damage. The problem you are probably running into is that there are some limitations to AT gun usage put in during the PC beta for balance. For example, any turreted mobile AT unit (read firefly/wolverine) will not fire backwards when moving away from the enemy. This was done to keep the turreted AT units on a level playing field as the AT units with no turrets like the Russian SU series.

Therefore, your mobile AT units have to be facing in the general direction of the enemy, otherwise they will not fire. Once you realize this and figure out how to play around this limitation (its easy, just focus fire on individual units and they will automatically put themselves in the right position and try to engage from their maximum range), you will realize the upper tier advanced AT units absolutely vaporize anything that is a ground vehicle, from lowly willy jeeps up to super tanks. Keep in mind the cost differential (1 firefly is probably even against 1 pershing/tiger), so you want numbers that are close to cost. IE, you can get about 3-4 fireflies for 2 pershings/tigers, and your 3-4 will destroy both tanks without taking a loss (assuming no one is using fanatacism).

Axe99
09-22-2010, 03:47 PM
I've tried that - a line of Archers and Fireflys, just waiting for a bunch of enemy tanks to come to them. Tanks just sat out of range and pulverised them (very quickly) - do you have the PS3 version? After these discussions, I suspect that there's a chance that the ranges for the Archer/Firefly might be bugged.

Anyways, will keep on keeping on - tried a few more strategies with the brits last night, but as soon as someone sees you're the brits, they spam AA which will pulverise your planes. You then need to advance with (least ranged, expensive and slow) arty, where the lack of quality tanks really hits you. I've tried a mixed Assault gun (AVRE)/Cromwell/Firefly/Skink stack a few times, and all it takes is for a someone to recon it from a distance, then a few Pershings/Tigers covered by AAA smash'em to bits. Can't hit 'em with the ground stuff (it's out of range), can't hit 'em with the air stuff (I've tried 12+ FBs, hitting the AAA first, and they get _shreadded_), and arty is a waste of time.

Tried an 'air rush' strategy with the Brits, but it only works against new players who don't build an AAA base right away and throw out a few AAA. Once anyone is established, it's game over unless they make a mistake.

The _only_ wins I've got with the Brits have been against inexperienced players doing silly things like not using recon.

That said - in a 2v2 game, the Brits are brilliant - they can play a strong air card to a strong ground faction. It's just a shame the strong ground factions also have pretty good planes as well.

Warforger
09-22-2010, 05:23 PM
Ok, I've been playing each race, I guess I'm a noob but there must be no such thing as this game is only a couple weeks old.

As far as I can tell, British are one of the best races in the game, have any of you even used any other races? While I guess in the prototype building they maybe lacking (from what I hear) that doesn't mean they suck, they have so many extremely beneficial researches for their units that while they are expensive in comparison to others, they sure are a hellvua lot more effective, I personally rarely even use the prototype building at all, the money used to buy it could be better used to build more units more often then not, and heavier tanks aren't even that important in a game where a single infantry squad hidden in a forest can demolish a column of tanks.

I'm just wondering, since I've been going through the races one by one. Don't take me too seriously though, I have only been playing for a little.

Axe99
09-22-2010, 06:00 PM
Aye - I used the US and then the Soviets before trying the Brits - my win/loss with the US and Soviets was 12-1, or thereabouts, with the Brits it was 5-7, and now I'm with the Italians (who aren't great either, but their heavy arty pulls them out of trouble sometimes when the 'Italian Rush' fails) and I'm around 4-2. Once I've got my fifth win with the Italians, I'll hit the French up, and I've saved Germany 'til last.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're doing well, but wait 'til you try some of the other factions. The Brits strengths are a quick medium tank and some strong air units/cheap airfields, with weaknesses (relative to other factions) in AAA, heavy tanks, arty and Assault Guns (the AVRE is solid, but costs a bomb to even get access to). A solid combined tank/AT/AAA stack with some arty behind it is almost impossible for the Brits to stop, given that when it's a big stack you can't tell your planes to 'target AAA', and if there's six of them, it's pretty hard to individually order each plane in. It is possible to win with the Brits, but it's a lot harder work, and less likely, than with the US/Soviets/Germans.

On the by - these are factions, not races http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Warforger
09-22-2010, 08:07 PM
The UK actually was the last race I used, as I had been playing all of them. I;ve only been playing against the AI, but I see how this hide the artillery behind the army and just fire the entire game works, the Italians to me were the ones in real need of buff, sure in an offensive position they could be all right, but in defense they get eaten up like Spaghetti, even worse they get foot soldier recon, not actual trucks like the other factions.

Axe99
09-22-2010, 10:08 PM
That's the second time I've had that about the Italians, and it ain't true - they get an armoured recon car that's pretty much the same as the Coventry Mk I, except it's $5 cheaper, _and_ they get recon infantry. The Brits are one of only two factions (the other is the French) to not get a recon option from their barracks.

The artillery issue does bore me a little as well. Only way to beat it, though, is to take the base out of the game - artillery is, in effect, strategic bombardment in a game that is otherwise all about tactics, and the shelling of bases that affects production in a tactical setting is easily the least realistic element off the game. I personally prefer a game of movement and tactics (and usually play one), but also use arty as it's part of the game as it stands. But my fave wins are blitz runs by AT and recon down a flank, under cover of radio silence - was playing beerguts this morning (good, clean player), and he thought he had me beat before a bunch of Italian medium tanks appeared at the left rear of his base in 'above the river' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

dan-1993uk
09-25-2010, 11:20 AM
right now im on a 70-75 win streak cant remember what it is exactly but yeh about 30 of them wins are brits im good with them but i play 1942 because its more balanced the Cromwell on 1942 are good because they are the same as Sherman and t-34s but faster so they are good.

but in 1945 they need to be buffed up!

GunnersMate07
09-25-2010, 01:39 PM
@Axe

When you said you think the archer/firefly ranges might be bugged, the only thing I can think of was perhaps you did not have recon? The firefly's maximum firing range is longer than its sight range. So if you do not have recon spotting the enemy tanks, your firefly will not fire until the enemy is closer (negating the long range). And if you think you did have recon, perhaps it was the first unit destroyed in the fight?

I use brits in 1v1 alot, and for me the firefly just pulverizes all enemy armor (although the research cost might be a tad too expensive).

Axe99
09-25-2010, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the tip Gunners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I'm generally pretty good with recon, and try and have a combo of ground and air (knowing what the other guy is doing is the most important thing in the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), but I have going back to the brits as a thing to do, but I'm planning on having some fun experimenting with some Soviet infantry rushing next - love the depth in this game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif..

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with the Brits otherwise - my win/loss playing with a non-Brit/Italian faction is literally around 8-1, but with the Brits it's more like 2-3, and with the Eyeties about 3-2 (but the Eyeties were built to rush, and I'm a rubbish rusher, so I can understand where I'm falling apart there). And I have no trouble with my AT in other factions - the S-100 is a beast. After I've had my fun with the Soviets, I'll go back to them and try some more stuff out with the Firefly.

Joppsta
09-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Well i played 2v2 as brit and i find that i have no option but to field air .. perhaps do recon as a pair-up.

I think the Brit on their own are terrible, but with America/Germany/USSR on their side i think that's when they would be able to dominate. Holding the skies would be your task, naturally, and doing recon. Although saying that the brit ground recon is terrible.

The british tanks are pathetic too. The Matilda as our heavy tank is ridiculous. It was an infantry support tank in WW2, i guess it's doing the same here more or less. If anything, the british heavyweight is the churchill and that's gimped to the same standard as the matilda if the stats program is anything to go by.

Furthermore, since we're in 1945, where is the Gloucester Meteor? You know, the jet we made? :P

I could moan forever.

All i know is that the Germans, US and USSR seem to be the nations you choose if you want to win. US has the air/ground and Germany has the air/ground and so does the USSR surprisingly.

Airpower doesn't win wars. What use is a plane to defend a ground complex?

Another thing as well.. our recon planes should have been mosquitoes (probably spelt wrong there..) since they were used in this role during WW2



Anyway, at the end of the day this is game... but the brits need a buff and the italians.. well.. they never really were one of the "major" powers in terms of quality of equipment but if we want balance then they need a buff too.

TheVoice777
09-26-2010, 07:42 AM
as far as I know the meteor only went into production after the war ended...dont think it ever saw action in ww2?

GunnersMate07
09-26-2010, 08:09 AM
The only real problem I have with brits is that they really need a cheap recon unit out of barracks. The coventry is simply too expensive for the lone ground recon unit that screams "please snipe me".

If the coventry price was lowered, or brits got a jeep from barracks, they would be perfect.

Stop trying to compare brit tanks to german tanks. Obviously the matilda cannot go against upper tier tanks. No unupgraded heavy tank can in this game. Hell just stop trying to counter tanks with tanks period. The brits have amazing mobile AT with fireflies that eat up all upgraded heavies and even super heavies (as long as your recon isnt being sniped which is the problem above I mentioned). They have decent mobile arty, decent infantry, fantastic air units.

If all you build are air units, you will get stomped. If all you build are tanks, you will most definitely get stomped. If you use good combined arms and proper counters, you can win with brits just as easily as the next faction (maybe slightly less just because of the recon issue).

Besides the recon, the only real fix I could see potentially being necessary is to slightly reduce the research cost of fireflies (it was raised from 50 in the beta to 75 now).

Painthreshold
09-26-2010, 11:46 AM
I only play 2v2 and i only play as Britain... I usually defend my base with AA and AT units. I then build tons of recon and planes. I use the radio silence ruse to kill as many AA units as possible or Blitz spitfires in too blow them up. I follow up with fighter bombers with wellington on lancaster bombers behind. I am fine to lose a couple of fighter bombers as long as i take out my targets with the bombers. Usually Airfield and AA buildings.

In my opinion dropping airborne early in the game is good, especially if they build an admin building straight away you can get a quick capture of their headquarters barracks etc.

Even an anti infantry bunker cant kill 4 elite infantry units

Axe99
09-26-2010, 03:51 PM
Gunners - the Brit air units aren't fantastic (the Germans are better besides the Typhoon), they're just cheaper.

But while you're right in that you can win as the Brits, they just don't, unit-for-unit, match up well with the 'heavy' factions (everyone except Italy).

- Tank-for-tank, it's no contest
- AT-wise, the Germans, Soviets and US have some pretty mean AT as well. Germans and Soviets arguably have better.
- Infantry is average (a little below average at taking on armour), and they get no recon option out of the barracks.
- Arty is average - they get average mobile arty, but no long-range stuff (and I'm not advocating turtling here, but it's handy to have a few arty units to 'counter-arty' when someone else opens up - nothing more frustrating than playing as the Brits when a 'turtler' opens up with arty behind a wall of AA and AT that the Brits can't match for range.
- AA is below average - it's very expensive whether you go with the Bofors or the ($180 cost of entry!) $45/pop Skink. While the Spitfire is great in the air, if you're advancing against a position which is defended with AAA, then Spitfires will get entangled in air combat, fly over the AAA and get mauled.
- AT is above average, but no better (and arguably a little worse) than the Soviet or German options, and pretty similar to the US.

At the end of the day, if the Brit units are, on average, not up to scratch, they'll be harder to win with. This is borne out in my experience - I find it easiest beating people playing the Brits, and hardest winning with them. In fact, other than one choke I had when I was para-rushed, I haven't been beaten by the Brits yet.

That's not to say they're not a brilliant 2v2 game faction, as their strong/cheap Air and AT can be used in combination with another faction to do really well, but pound-for-pound, up against anyone else, the _only_ edge they have is air, and once the opposition knows this, they'll throw up a wall of AAA to smash 'em.

Axe99
09-29-2010, 04:32 PM
Been having a look at the stats in more detail, and there's absolutely no doubt that the Brits are underpowered - poor blighters - and when they're not underpowered, they're generally overpriced! More details once I've gone through the stats properly.

Joppsta
09-29-2010, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Axe_99au:
Been having a look at the stats in more detail, and there's absolutely no doubt that the Brits are underpowered - poor blighters - and when they're not underpowered, they're generally overpriced! More details once I've gone through the stats properly. Well relying solely on airpower usually sucks since airplanes are quite easily shot down with about 5 20mm flack guns ..so $50 of equipment for several planes at least.

I love playing against air orientated foes.. it's quite possibly the easiest victory to get. You just crush his small medium tanks with superior heavies and move right up on him with recon.

That's why the brits suck. Tank busting German King Tigers is pretty bloody tough going and when you've got an armoured column of about 10-20 KT's + Wirbelwind escorts (usually i like to have about 5-10) you haven't got much choice in the matter. Arty can't do jack, air can't do jack.

That's usually when i break out my own airfield and crank my own air recon + fighters to shoot down the planes.

It usually ends up some sort of bloodbath score! xD