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View Full Version : Its the pilot, not the plane?



Daiichidoku
12-16-2004, 01:41 AM

GAU-8
12-16-2004, 02:02 AM
in MOST cases, its the pilot. depends on the setting though.

everything has a weakness. exploit it/DONT play the game THIER WAY..play it YOURS.learn YOUR aircraft, and learn thiers
after you still get shot down...(this is not "pick-up" easy) after MUCH time, your not learning to take advantage of what can be taught.

play in the elements the plane was designed for, and in the elements you like. try not to mix the 2. if you fly one way, and the plane is designed for something else.. you wont last long.

again, we fly in aircraft with guns.so no matter how good you are, if you live by the sword.... youll eventually die by the sword.

HansKnappstick
12-16-2004, 02:05 AM
Is it "arcade" and "full real" only? Nothing in between?

Tully__
12-16-2004, 02:45 AM
The greater skill advantage the pilot has over his adversary, the bigger the performance disadvantage he can compensate for when flying against a "superior" aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
12-16-2004, 02:53 AM
It's all about knowing advantages and disadvantages of your own and your opponents a/c.
Tactics are also having a big effect. A pilot in a Ki84 is dead meat if he lets himself being dragged into a low-alt-low-speed fight with older a/c. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

FatBoyHK
12-16-2004, 03:00 AM
of course it is the pilot. if you see people turnfight against a zeke, failed no matter how hard they tried, and then jump to the conclusion that zeke is an uber plane, you would certainly think in this way.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-16-2004, 03:15 AM
G50 vs La7?
sounds nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

yes it is verry much possible, it even is in an FW at co or even inferror energy state...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BBB_Hyperion
12-16-2004, 03:33 AM
Its the Pilot, the Plane and the Situation be sure .)

Most so called aces claim they are good cause they hover over a enemy base or 8 k + and pick up on climbing planes or engage only from advantage position while beeing on teamspeak to keep their tails looked at.

After a while when normal problems like stalling and lags etc are mastered its mostly only a math equation .

You see an enemy higher than you and he is smart enough to keep its advantage its only a matter of time . If no errors happen the situation gets worse and if ,you can hope the other guy did them .).

The guys the constantly master disadvantaged situations and getting back alive are the better pilots IMHO.

Sir.Robin-1337
12-16-2004, 03:34 AM
It is the plane.

F19_Ob
12-16-2004, 04:01 AM
Both pilot and plane are important factors.
Its true that an expert pilot can win with skill alone in some situations and may score kills in inferior fighters or bombers, but there is a limit to what u can do as a pilot in a crappy plane pitted towards a better one.

The most important fase in any battle is the initial positions and angles when the battle starts and normally that descides who wins if skill and planes are comparable, that also means that one of the most descisive factors in any combat is luck and that also means that the lesser pilot has equally god chanses to end up on that initial advantage position.
Bounces depend greatly on luck and in a way really cant be counted as battle between opponents.
Most kills in ww2 were bounces and many calculations on how good a plane were was counted sloppily on just planes shot down. Thats why we have problems understanding why the "best" planes boosted by propaganda and myth Like the spitfire, p51d and others not are owerwhelmingly better than their opponents.

A trick that U can use if u want to be a topscorer and yourself avoid being shot down , Is to use the best planes with speed, accelleration and climb advantage. This way u can more often choose to attack or to leave at will.
No matter how expert u are U wont survive with skill alone in crappy fighters or bombers because u will be exposed to those with accelleration and altitude and therefore take way more risks.

If u know of a topscorer who seldom gets shot down and wonder how the heck he does it, U can record a session on that server and later watch what he is doing and how.
My bet is that he is in a superior plane compared to his opponents and has the altitude and speed advantage and is experienced enough to keep it. That way its possible to fly almost untuchable by inferior planes.

cheers

Von_Rat
12-16-2004, 04:01 AM
in real life if a pilot was at a disadvantage, most of the time he would try to disengage, or call for his tail to be cleared, no respawn button in real life.

in my opinion pilots who disengage when at a disadvantage are flying more realisticly.

carguy_
12-16-2004, 05:14 AM
This rule has too many exceptions to actually be a rule.I never stood behind an opinion that a great pilot flying Me109...(erm no they`re to good)uuuh flying a Yak1B will beat a good pilot flying P63.


Anyways what`s the use of being a hotshot if you down two enemy planes and two more kill you.

IMO one should make a reasonable contribution to a battle without being threatened too much.

1 kill + 1 safe homebase landing is my style of flying.

But I have too young of a mind to be very reasonable.Everytime I see a clear sky and a formation of 5 IL2 I always take the chance.
Recent change of dots leads to cases when I don`t see any enemy fighters around but as soon as I attack the bloody formation there instantly appear 3 fighters.

Bill_Door
12-16-2004, 05:30 AM
It's the plane! At least in one to one fight.

A good pilot can sure use his planes advantage against the weakness of the opposing plane. But if his plane has no advantage at all, all he can do is hope for an error from the other pilot. If the other guy don't make one, he is dead.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-16-2004, 06:26 AM
An unskilled or less-skilled pilot can be forced (by the better pilot) to commit errors, you don't have to wait for them, a good pilot can force the enemy to do mistakes.

Cajun76
12-16-2004, 06:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill_Door:
It's the plane! At least in one to one fight.

A good pilot can sure use his planes advantage against the weakness of the opposing plane. But if his plane has no advantage at all, all he can do is hope for an error from the other pilot. If the other guy don't make one, he is dead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have to disagree with this. Anyone who flies a/c such as P-47 and FW "A" series successfully knows that is wrong. Otherwise we might as well bail out if jumped by another plane with more energy and/or altitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bearcat99
12-16-2004, 07:21 AM
I think it is tue for the most part but only in fully imersive or near fully imersive servers. Icons and open pits take the whole issue to arcadia. At least with a closed pit and full FMs and no icons (Map icons are just pure arcade IMO) or limited icons you have to work to maintain tally..... which is half the battle.. keeping you opponent in front of your guns as opposed to n your tail. A crappy pilot in a Uber plane will more likely loose to a good pilot in an inferior plane most of the time IMO.

VFA-195 Snacky
12-16-2004, 07:48 AM
Sorry but full real or not I am just not impressed by anyone flying Spits, LAs, or KIs. Want to impress me? strap on a P38 and survive two 109K-4s.

I tend to spend the majority of my time in the P38,P51,F6F, or F4U but when I join a server that appears to be nothing but KIs and Spits zooming around I have no reservations about using the same plane to even the playing field.

JtD
12-16-2004, 07:55 AM
I'm way more successfull when flying Bfs or FWs than in any Allied design I tried. P-51 comes close, but I tend to lose a wing sometimes.

Soviet designs suck most, if you can't catch one down low and slow you are out of business.

F0_Dark_P
12-16-2004, 08:21 AM
one thing i know is that i dont fare long when i am flying a plane that i aint used to, for example if i fly a yak i will fly much worse then i would in a 109 which i am more used to, couse i know that plane and i know how much i can puch her, and i now when she will bite back on me, so experience is obvious, and experience in your own plane

jeroen-79
12-16-2004, 08:40 AM
If the plane doesn't matter then why isn't the airforce flying Wright Flyers?

Intruder_GP
12-16-2004, 10:10 AM
This topic has been beaten over and over with no avail...Whats the use in debating this issue when its clear that its the Pilot skill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

When a plane is flown well to its maximum limits its called Uber..My question is why not take this uber plane learn to fly it well...end of day dont get shot down and dont say Uber cause nothing is going to change in that confrontation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Daiichidoku
12-16-2004, 10:52 AM
You would call a G 50, or Yak 1 or B 239 Uber when flown to its full potential?

Strange... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Atomic_Marten
12-16-2004, 11:37 AM
My thinking goes this way: if I say 'It's all in the pilot' -- that would be for real life. And to some degree.

But you see, in online wars, it is huge advantage to fly better plane. So I would not apply this 'neat' saying to our online struggle.

It is somewhat less advantage if one is flying in 'realistic' server, but it is huge if one is flying on cockpit off server.

To summarize -- I would say that this 'it's all about pilot' would be mostly for RL.

We, as online flyers, might actually learn somthing from our 'virtual' deaths. RL war flyers do not.

Intruder_GP
12-16-2004, 12:39 PM
posted Thu December 16 2004 09:52
You would call a G 50, or Yak 1 or B 239 Uber when flown to its full potential?

Strange...


I dont call any pilot or plane Uber,and to answer your question of good G50 pilot if he can beat a weak La pilot...the answer is Yes he will!!

Its all about situational awarness and the skill and knowledge of the plane you are flying to overcome its weakness and capitalize on the enemys mistakes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Daiichidoku
12-16-2004, 02:43 PM
[QUOTE]

When a plane is flown well to its maximum limits its called Uber..QUOTE]


Ok....just who would call a G 50 flown well and even shooting ppl down "Uber"?

Atomic_Marten
12-16-2004, 07:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
Ok....just who would call a G 50 flown well and even shooting ppl down "Uber"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.forum.hr/images/smilies/lol.gif ha-hahar-ha...

BuzzU
12-16-2004, 08:14 PM
If you want to carry it to the extreme. It's the plane always. Here's proof.

Take the best pilot in FB, and let him fly any plane in FB/PF, and i'll beat him 10 out of 10 times.

I'll be flying an F-15.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ImpStarDuece
12-16-2004, 08:41 PM
For a little while now my favourite thing online has been taking biplanes into combatagainst late war monoplanes, particularly turn and burners.

When i run up against a good pilot, i'm toast. However, its GREAT fun playing defensive cat and mouse with them. LAst night i spent about 20 minutes in a C.R. 42 being boomed and zoomed by a 109 until he ran out of ammo. We entered at equal alt and roughly equal speed and he sed his climb, power and speed to totally dominate the fight.

However, against a BAD pilot i can enter in the same situation and be on his tail and spraying him within two turns. If he turns in the horizontal (or dives) i know ive usually got him. If he goes vertical, its ouch time for me. Its fun beign able to wax guys flying great planes while your in a cr@p plane.

NORAD_Zooly10
12-17-2004, 10:44 AM
i have learned to look for an escape route, the situation can degrade rapidly and given the option i'll try to fight the battle on my terms (not always sucessful but it can work).
~S~
Zooly