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VFS-22_SPaRX
01-25-2005, 02:52 PM
In the continuing effort to bring the Coop Atmosphere to the functionality of a dogfight server, as of 4:30p EST, WarClouds is now running Deathkick=1 with a 5min temp ban.

Stats have also been reset as this new setting will without a doubt change how players fly and such.

We will run this way for a week and re-evaluate how its working then.

Later tonight I will try and post some tips to keeping your pilot alive and I welcome everyone else to please post tips and tricks as well in this thread to help other with this new setting. If you fly smart and well, you will not really get banned that often. Even if you do, its only 5 mins. Goto the bathroom, get a drink and think about what happen to get your pilot dead http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Enjoy

sunflower1
01-25-2005, 02:56 PM
Bold executive decision. S!

NTESLA
01-25-2005, 02:59 PM
That sounds interesting! One-shot-one Kill, ala Flashpoint. Will make it more interesting for those of us seeking "realism".

Question, can you still bail out to attempt parachuting?

Akronnick
01-25-2005, 03:16 PM
Just in came in from Warclouds, yes, you can bail out. I noticed something that may need some attention, I saw a player who was in a definate no-win situation (he had two enemies chasing him) and instead of staying in the fight, he just disappeared! apparently he assumed he was going to die, and decided to disconnect to avoid the 5min ban. also, before I took off, I was taxiing to the end of the Runway (I was on the Taxiway) and not one but two planes took off right over my head missing me by mere virtual inches. I don't want to gripe, and I'm all in favor of the dead is dead(sorta) setting, but people doing things like that will drag the server down.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-25-2005, 03:32 PM
Akronnick,
We are going to be watching closely for this happening. If you see players doing this repeatedly, please snap a screen shot showing them disconnecting and reconnecting and email it to admin@war-clouds.com . We will be banning players for doing this. We will also be watching our IP logs closely for those that change their names to avoid the deathkick as well. If you ask me, this is pretty dishonorable. Take your defeat with honor.

As for the runway collisions and such, we know this is going to be an issue to start off. But people quickly will learn to be more careful while taxiing. Time will resolve this issue quickly.

Hristo_
01-25-2005, 03:35 PM
Just did a long sortie in a Dora. Much harder to get kills now, as everyone is much more alert and less likely to take risks.

I only got a kill when I strafed a ditching plane. Returned to base and what did I see ? Two P-51s vulching merrily and ack blazing at them.

They seemed not to care about their virtual lives. Already smoking heavily they were so desperate to get that vulch kill but failed. One of them then flew towards friendly lines and bailed out.

Well, I just couldn't help it and shot him in his chute http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seems that new rules didn't keep the Quakers out though. Still, I like the new server.

notgoodknight
01-25-2005, 04:06 PM
this idea is better than the no bailing out. I feel like im flying VWF again.

However, Just to clarify... is a pilot capture supposed to result in a ban?

Ive seen players get captured and stay in the server.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-25-2005, 04:11 PM
Yes GK, a pilot capture should result in a ban as it is considered a death by FBD. But there are chances of errors. Also there is a 25% escape rate set in FBD. So if a player bails in enemy territory, he has a 1 in 4 chance of escaping. FBD usually will post a chat message that "player has escaped enemy forces", but sometimes FBD may lag a bit so it may not be displayed.

SPaRX

xTHRUDx
01-25-2005, 05:21 PM
If you need a place to fly till your ban is lifted drop by Greater Green. you can always reconnect to WC after a sortie or 2.

notgoodknight
01-25-2005, 05:49 PM
greatergreen is nice for a change of pace and so is warclouds. greatergreen has better missions and more action. but the thing i like about warclouds is that i am garunteed able to fly the plane i want to fly every time.

nickdanger3
01-25-2005, 06:28 PM
If GG had the Warclouds icon system then i wouldn't consider my death kick a punishment...I'd just head over to another great server!

As it is I'll pop between the two but SPaRX nailed it with the icons settings.

MystiqBlackCat
01-25-2005, 09:39 PM
I wonder if you might bump that max ping up 100 or so, I havent played on WC in a while because my connection jumps up and i get kicked although I'm not warping around or anything.

buglord
01-25-2005, 09:47 PM
1 death fair enough just make sure you fighters cover my a s s when im in my b25. S~

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/mrbuglord-shotdown.jpg

ulil
01-26-2005, 12:00 AM
S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FlatSpinMan
01-26-2005, 12:14 AM
Sparx - it sounds like good idea. I can see one downside but I still support your idea. I try to fly whatever is needed (on any server) to meet the objectives. I spent a kind of fun, kind of irritating few hours yesterday flying Stukas, Il2s and invariably being axed just before or just after the target area. I was escorted perhaps twice. Looking at the online stats, of about 30 players only about 4 or 5 were flying non-fighters. It was fun trying to evade but at times I would have four 109s plus flak taking potshots at me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif. It doesnt really encourage taking a risk by flying anything other than a fighter.I would have been DKed for about 25mins out of three hours. To be honest though, that would have happened no matter what i was in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif As you said, the DK is a good chance to do other things, I just worry what effect it will have on plane selection. Still, I guess there is no way around everybody choosing fighters without turning everybody off.
Just my 2cents. Thanks for actually asking people for their input http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Happy trails



____________________________________________

x__CRASH__x
01-26-2005, 12:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
If you need a place to fly till your ban is lifted drop by Greater Green. you can always reconnect to WC after a sortie or 2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll be flying GG until this single death kick is eliminated. Bad move IMHO. Sorry Sparx, I really have no idea what drove you to this. WC was fine the way it was. Just needed some new maps and restricted planesets and years and you would be golden.

PierceMcKennon
01-26-2005, 03:59 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=8011032862

IDF_Raam
01-26-2005, 06:26 AM
Last Thursday i had a great game with a bunch of guys on Warclouds - all on Teamspeak, with well arranged attacks and defences.

I played again today, but with the new rule there was no way of coordinating with anyone - people disapeared very fast from the server (including myself..) and there was no chance of teamplay.

I think the deathkick is a good idea, but as it is it takes a lot of fun out of the game (and after all it is a game). Thursday's configuration was great.

BenvZijl
01-26-2005, 06:45 AM
i find the new deathkick bad for the fun in this game i always had much fun on WC but now my problems with some planes in takeoff and landing (with deadly crash) will make me crash and get kicked(you saw it yesterday with me m8 DarthMaverick)

roadczar
01-26-2005, 06:52 AM
I tried it last night. I still like the 3-death kick setup better. Realistic or not (as I€m sure many of us) on weekdays I am too busy to play more than one session. The 3-kick rule gave me perfect amount of airtime. I also think that team dynamics change too quickly with people dropping and joining all the time.

BullShark 71
01-26-2005, 07:08 AM
Well at first I was a little weary of it,but overall I like it.I was able to fly 3 - flights last night being shotup badly and still getting back across the front lines and able to refly again.

I noticed a bit more"joins the game,left the game" seemed to be the topic off the evening in the chat,accompanied by the occasional enter/exit studder.And a high turnover rate in pilots but there were plenty more coming in at the same time.

Im usually good for about 30 minutes to an hour then I needs me a smoke break anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I also got pounced twice ,back to back when I was at 5000,so next time I will be at 7000 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sir.Robin-1337
01-26-2005, 07:25 AM
The 1 death kick is very unfortunate for my enemies.
They have scarcely 2 minutes flying time before they are dispatched, and removed from the server.

I must admit, I do now enjoy the variety of my victims. I believe I have shot down atleast 1 person from every country in the world while flying in Warclouds. All 191 of them.

Diablo310th
01-26-2005, 07:37 AM
Sir.Robin is my idol. When I grow up I wanna be just like him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Tvrdi
01-26-2005, 07:46 AM
i like the idea....one kill - ban...but, sparx, then i suppose there would be more campers around thier bases i guess.....how to avoid that?

Yum_Yum
01-26-2005, 11:22 AM
On the subject of players disconnecting when faced with imminent attack ?

I record all my online games, I would like to ask if I may submit recordings as evidence of unfair play if I should see any players and could they be banned (I have not seen any yet) ?

In order to help prevent such dissconnections for instance..
If a player disconnects in flight may it be recorded as a bail out or even a death ?

Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

StellarRat
01-26-2005, 12:15 PM
My observations from last night:

A couple people disconnected on me last night when they were in trouble, so it is a problem. On the other hand I found that everyone was really flying smart, so that part is working. The only time I'm engaging without big advantage now is if my wingman is in trouble. Before I was willing to take more chances. So, the battles a less frequent now and a lot shorter because people bug out immediately when they're hit and no one is willing to follow them very far. I let three smokers go last night that I normally probably would have pursued for a lot longer, just to keep my altitude advantage.

I saw NO Blues trying to complete their objectives all they did was base hug and stay on there side of the front lines.

We need to come up with a way to make the sides go after their objectives.

FatBoyHK
01-26-2005, 12:36 PM
I think, although the new policies (Stats and 1 life) are good, the result is not as good as we think.....Disconnector is starting to be a big problem, they disconnect just before they hit the ground.... People love building stats, and hate being banned..... another problem is, seem that much fewer people is on WC tonight.... so these policies don't fared well among the majority of (causal) gamers? I don't know, let's wait and see....

BBB_Hyperion
01-26-2005, 12:56 PM
I dont like the idea sry. In fact it is just another version of airquake cause no one will fly disadvantaged planes all will get the best ride no ground objectives can be meet . Once not the best planes are available people disconnect. Once people are in disadvantaged position people disconnect cooperation is set up over teamspeak disconnect etc etc. After all this disconnects server is empty . Just my impression on this so called improvement. For my favorite Groundpounder role i fly mostly with Bombracks on Fighter Planes or with Bombers which gives lower topspeed and no chance of escape at low alt. Getting up Teamwork with continous disconnecting people is no fun at all. Have not much time for online flying lately so doesnt bother me much but i think most that like ground pounding and flying in disadvantaged planes will change server . Rest that is still there are ego shooters .)

tora-2
01-26-2005, 01:05 PM
unless I am mistaken there's a couple of issues with the disconnect.
Firstly there's the possibility of people denying a kill/pretending it was lag by hitting disconnect. However I have also found in the past that sometimes it means you don't even get chance to say S. or somesuch. Basically with an auto deathkick you often don't even get to exhibit even sportsmanlike behaviour ?

AKA_RAVENOUS
01-26-2005, 01:15 PM
After a longer break from on-line fling I jumped into WC last night ( after reading about the proposed no bail option) and was surprised to find a great number of cowardly mongrells who tend to disconn. in a middle of a dog fight as soon as the opponent gains an advantage. Instead of opting for any kind of defensive strategy or an honourable death they simply vanish as you're trying to get them in your sights. Both me and my wingman witnessed at least 4 cases and were quite annoyed at the fact that our hard work to gain the upper hand has just been negated by some punk who's determined not to sit out for 5 min. I hope something can be done about this because it really takes the fun out of organized play.
I can imagine it would have been worse if the no bail option was chosen.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 02:36 PM
Ok, let me comment on a few of the concerns i am seeing in this thread.

1. Base camping/staying on the friendly side of the lines: Well if this is how players are going to play, then they will not have much "fun" on the server. Its a games as everyone keeps saying. What harm is there in running to the objective or the other side of the lines. You might get shot down and not be able to rejoin for what 5 whole minutes. Think about this for a moment. B17 crews in WW2 did not say "hell with that I am not going to fly that mission because i have a 50/50 chance of dying". If they would have had that attitude, we would all be under the Leadership of Hitlers decendants.

2. No one attacking ground objectives: Well first off, most ground pounders die because they stick around targets too long. Instead of running dropping their payload and running back home, they stay around too long and open themselves up to more damage. Bombers are tough planes. They are NOT easy to shoot down. Especially with all those AI gunners. As a fighter pilot primarily, I am thinking more about whether i want to attack those Bombers. My chances of getting PKed are very high. Lastly, the fighters have moved up in Alt now making it easier for to sneak to target and get back home.

3. Getting Vulched on Spawn. First off, your team should be providing CAP at your base. Secondly, all you need to do is ask your team if the base is clear before you hit the Fly button. If you are on comms, then simply ask, "Base in G3 clear for takeoff?" If you are not on comms, a simple chat message to your team asking the same thing will do the job as well.

4. Keep getting banned and its not fun: Everyone needs to first understand that a pilot kill and getting shot down are two different things. You can get shot down all night long and never get a 5 minute ban. Its just a matter of learning when to fight and when to get the hell out of dodge. If you plane has taken damage and you will not be able to fight well in it, dis-engage from your fight and make a run for home. This is where i see most people having problems. With the 3 deaths, people would stay in battles too long knowing **** well they would die. They would do this with their first two deaths. Then when they are on their third death, they would start flying smarter. Basically, if you wanna use some golf lingo, you had two mulligans. Well now you do not have those two mulligan. You are playing on the Pro Tour now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

5. Player disconnecting to avoid a death: As I have stated before, we are not going to tolerate this. If you see a player continually doing this, you need to let us know. Screen shots are always helpful. The screen shot should show the player disconnecting and immediatly reconnecting. Sure players are going to say they were lag kicked, but we can tell. So if you see a player doing this, get us a screenshot, email it to admin@war-clouds.com with the offending players name and we will take care of it. There are tell tale signs of a lag kick and an intentional Disconnect. We will be handling this as follows.

1st offense: 1 week ban
2nd offense: 2 week ban
3rd offense: perm ban

We will catch these players. The same goes for those that change names to avoid the ban. We log all IP and Names on the server. We will be scanning this Log quite often to find offenders and they will be subjected to the same bans as mentioned above.



This is a new challenge for everyone. Its up to you whether you want the challenge or not. Regardless of what you are reading in these forums, the majority of the players are enjoying this ALOT. Its challenging and more rewarding to fly. Fly smart and you will not be effected by this change. Fly stupid, and you will spend alot of time in the pentaly box.

There are going to be some growing pains with this change as there is with any major change in life. Once that is over, all will calm down and things will be just fine.

Hristo_
01-26-2005, 02:53 PM
Regarding the disconnetors...

I'm sure many of you have played Warbirds or Aces High. There, if you disconnect for whatever reason near an enemy plane, he gets the kill. A so called disco-kill.

Also, if you are pinged, no matter where you are after that, if you disconnect, he also gets a disco-kill.

This eliminates disco-pilots in almost all situations.

Lucius_Esox
01-26-2005, 03:10 PM
I admire your decision Sparx. I for one think it is good and for every con there seems to be a pro. For example a good downside point that I had not thought of was the lack of continuity in team tactics when the team gets changed so much by deaths, dont die then. It is very realistic I just hope enough people want this level of realism.

jung0l
01-26-2005, 03:28 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I think you guys are nuts. 1 Death!..You might get that on the tarmac. Versus no pararchutes!..Man..this...in all relative terms..is a VIDEO GAME...you are not gonna make every single person fly it the way you want to. IMHO, more people were trying honestly trying to achieve the missions goals in WC when it was midlevel settings; versus the "elite" hunting expedition server it seems to have turned into.

What about people who are trying to make the transition to FR. I guess they'll be hitting greater green. But hey, it's your server, and if you think this won't make people even more desperate, then do your thing....

slarsson
01-26-2005, 03:39 PM
I agree with jungol.

For those of us who die much more often than we kill (and that's more people than admit it..) the new 1 kill DK is just an annoyance and frustration.

Sure "Learn to fly better and it won't be a problem". Well I hope that's true, but I guess a lot of people will be learning to fly better elsewhere. I won't be surprised if the WC numbers drop alarmingly.

It's really sad when something which isn't broken gets fixed like this. The only real problem with WC is that there is little or no incentive to fulfill the mission. The 1 kill DK makes that worse, not better, as was clear last night.

But as jungol says, Sparx, it's your server.

WTE_Galway
01-26-2005, 03:40 PM
just goes to show - you cant please everyone

providing only one or two servers do it sounds like a great idea to me

Gustavflyer
01-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Hey Sparx, i think the 5 minute ban is too much if the one kill kick is going to be used. If you want to have a 5 minute ban then fine but how bout for 2 deaths vs a single death before the kick. That way the pilots who fly here alot can enjoy their stay longer and yet still have another go if they crash or if someone spawns on them and causes them to die. Punish the ones who abuse the server but not loyal pilots who fly here all the time.

Hristo_
01-26-2005, 03:50 PM
Well, time to say something in defense of the idea.

Yesterday and today, since the deathkick=1 was implemented, I've experienced the most intensive combat sorties since I play online sims, and that goes some 6 years.

In general, people are far more careful. They are also more coordinated and less likely to do stupid things. Sure there are still noobs who follow you to hell and back only to die in your ack, but those are very rare now. Instead, you have organized raids and combat has approached to what I believe is realistic.

I found myself thinking twice before attacking bombers. Also, I was actually afraid to go low in enemy territory and freaked out when I got a Spitfire on my 6. My heartrate was skyhigh during the time I was shaking him off.

Fights have climbed higher, very rare you find deck turnfights now, unlike only a few days ago.

Please leave WC as it is now. For ones who just want to jump in their ride and have some quick fun there are plenty of other servers around. WC is only one. So please let us have it. Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WOLFMondo
01-26-2005, 04:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
This is a new challenge for everyone. Its up to you whether you want the challenge or not. Regardless of what you are reading in these forums, the majority of the players are enjoying this ALOT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might be the case for some but WC server hasn't been full while i've been on since you put the death kick to 1. Just an observation.

Airmail109
01-26-2005, 04:50 PM
I love vulching on warclouds now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

GUARD4000
01-26-2005, 05:00 PM
my opinion about deathkick=1
the server changes a lot.But are these changes good?
Blues seldom attacked those targets before the new rule,and now they just NEVER attack those targets.i played a few hours on Warclouds,and i didnt see any bf110 or he111,and it was the radar and bastogne maps(the blues'mission was attacking).all blues were in their late 109s,doras or ta152s.Some blue ACEs just come to 7k over red base togther and BnZ the reds.They are flying really smart,but the server becomes a gunnery practice for some blue ACEs.After defeated by those guys,I realised that they are smarter than me and ta152 is a better high altitude fighter than Mustang and the only way i can survive on the server is not to engage these guys but to find some noobs to shoot while trying not to be shot down by the blue ACEs.
BTW,i find a interesting thing.Nomatter what map is being used on Warclouds,the blues almost never use anything but late 109s,doras and ta152s,but there are allways still some reds using b25,a20 or p38s and go bombing even the reds are outnumbered .(it seems that many reds are getting used to be outnumbered http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif at least i am)I think these guys are deserved to be kicked out because they are too bold.Everybody knows that "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots. There are, however, no old bold pilots." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
SALUTE TO THOSE BRAVE REDS. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

P.S. many reds are killed by mk108.

x__CRASH__x
01-26-2005, 05:21 PM
I don't agree that getting involved in a dog fight is flying stupid. If avoiding the fight in order to stay alive just to avoid getting kicked is "smart" flying, then I never went to school. I'd rather stir it up in a furball with my wingman on comms and fly away victorious, yet risking a death. With the new penatly, the risk is not worth the benefit.

jung0l
01-26-2005, 05:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aimail101:
I love vulching on warclouds now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there u go, along with the well stated post at the top of the page, you are going to end up defeating you're own purpose......

Have u ever thought of making your TOH server into a mid level setting scenario server like your first one? All you have to do is look at the turnout for VFC's midlevel historical coops to see how popular that would be. You probably would see much more team play for achieving objectives than the headhunting you have now. I had fun on TOH the time i flew there, but still a bunch Zero's (M5!?!) hovering at high alt over base waiting to tear any small group of wildcats up.

willyvic
01-26-2005, 05:29 PM
Just got out of WC. Liked it. Seems to keep the kiddees away. Good goin.

WV

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 08:00 PM
@Crash- I never said that getting involved in a dogfight is flying stupid. I said staying in one when you have too much damage is.

To those that think people are not hitting ground targets look at this link (stats were reset yesterday) :

http://stats.war-clouds.com/wf/search.php?sort=8&name=

And FYI, JV44Heinzbar is a dedicated Blue team flyer. 80+ ground targets destroyed in 24 hours? I think he is doing quite a bit of target hunting. I think some people need to goto the target areas and see just how many players are hitting the targets. There are more ground pounders then just He111s. A6's and F8's were used quite often for ground pounding.

To those that think that the servers attendance has dropped. Again i provide you with this link:

http://stats.war-clouds.com/wf/index.php

550+ players over the last 24 hours. I havent seen the server drop below 25 players except in the times when it normally did. There has been 30+ players as normal on the server.

@jung0l: getting rid of vulching was never an intended purpose of this change. But it certainly makes it more rewarding when you succeed.

You also stated: "What about people who are trying to make the transition to FR."

You also stated that you hate waiting for VFS coops to fill up to play. Well are you telling me that you never get shot down in those coops? So you never have to wait 10-15 minutes or even long for the next mission? Because if this is the case, then i do not see why you are worried, you will not prolly ever get deathkicked http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

Do you need someone to hold your hand? If you want to get into FR as you call it, what better way to do it. As the old saying goes "Jump in and rip the bandaide off in one motion" Accept the challenge.

You all really are looking at this in the wrong manner. Getting shot down does not = 5 minute ban. You pilot dying does. You can be shot down 40 times and never have your pilot die. 40 sorties and no ban. Its that simple guys. Really.

We cannot please everyone. There are many other servers online that will suit the wants and desires if WarClouds does not. We are striving to take the game out of the sim and put the coop atmosphere into a dogfight server. And I honestly think we are getting there. This isnt for the light hearted gamer, the Yank and Banker or Careless pilot. This is a server where teamplay, fighter tatics and Situation Awareness win the battle, not who can get the most frags. Regardless of what you are reading here, the majority of the players are enjoying this quite well. The excitement level is incredible. You should here these guys on comms.

S~

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 08:09 PM
Here's a little tip for those of you that are worried bout spending 5 minutes in the pental box.

Start recording your sorties. Then if/when you get shot down, spend that 5 minutes reviewing that track to see why you got shot down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S~

meh_cd
01-26-2005, 08:20 PM
No fun for beginners. Terrible for beginners.

Elitists having their way, I guess...

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 08:26 PM
meh_cd,

You loss, not ours. If you are not up to the challenge, then so be it. There are plenty of servers out there that cater to your desires.

SPaRX

NoBunny
01-26-2005, 09:26 PM
Sparx-

do us all a favor and make that lag machine you call a server private.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 09:50 PM
NoBunny,


How about you do us a favor, set your machine up so it you do not induce lag into the server, or find somewhere else to fly.

Better yet, if you think you can do better, go for it.

S~

jung0l
01-26-2005, 09:58 PM
First of all..please point out to me where in my post I stated I hated waiting for VFC coops to fill up, or did my other personality type it for me? Man, you can't even compare your server to VFC coops brah, not by a long shot. In there everybody's aiming to achieve the mission goal, and who ever's left at the end will duke it out. So there's guaranteed purpose and action, not just hunting expeditions to catch people from blind spots. So for me..even though it doesn't take that long for them to fill, it well worth the wait.

And nobody asked you hold anybody's hand, i just made a freakin' suggestion. As i DID state, I think a lot of guys will go to greater green..which is technically another server, ..is it not? Me myself, I don't really give a **** about full real..only fly occasionally, too boring for me. It's your server and you gonna do what you want anyway. it's been nearly full all night, so do your thing and I'll do mine.

Oh, and it seemed to me you wanted to impliment this rule to make people play the game in a more realistic fashion. So if people only joining the server to vulch, which a couple of people stated would be reduced because of this 1-deathkick, was not the unrealistic "noobish" behavior you were trying to cut down, ....explain to me what you were trying to cut down on? I thought that was the point?

Anyway it doesn't really matter, so far a lot pilots are joining, but I still think you "full real" guys are kinda nuts sometimes...later.

Von_Rat
01-26-2005, 10:09 PM
SPARX

i love the new 1 death your out rule,,, i can't beleive people are complaining about a measly 5 minute ban. go to the john or grap a beer. if you find your spending to much time being banned. that means you gotta fly smarter, and in my opinon more realistic.

a very nice side effect of this is that people are starting to fly at more historical altitudes. there seems to be less ridiculous 50m furballs.

this is supposed to be a sim on ww2 air combat, not battling hovercraft. so anything that moves the airwar up, im all in favor of. i've already fought in serveral battles at 8k and up, fantastic.

this isn't the eastern front, most of these planes were designed for medium to hi alt bnz or e fighting. start learning how to fly your planes correctly, you'll live longer, and spend less time banned.

real pilots don't throw their lives away, and to many people on warclouds were doing just that before.

as for not being beginner friendly, when was warclouds ever beginner friendly. when i was new to il2, i got my *** handed to me repeatly on warclouds, and i wasn"t a newbie to flight sims.

warclouds has the reputation of being the place where the best fly. if you wanna learn there, be ready to die alot, i did.

Hendley
01-26-2005, 10:14 PM
Regarding bombers and ground targets, I had noticed recently on War Clouds that the fighters are a lot quicker to break off their attacks when they get hit and smoked by the defensive guns--managed to survive 4 or 5 B-25 flights the other day, for a change http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. This might be a good adjustment.

As for folk not going after the ground targets: I almost always play ground attack (just can't hit anything that's flying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif), but on MOST maps it's next to impossible to win by finishing off the ground targets. The situation improved slightly with the visibility change in one of the recent patches, but the targets are either too hidden, too tough or too numerous for the two or three people flying bombers to have any hope of taking out.

If maps had fewer targets, it would encourage people to fly bombers because they'd know they'd have a chance of winning the map for the team. This would in turn force the defenders to actually defend the location, and that would, in turn, force the attacking fighters to fly to the targets too if they wanted any action... Less vulching, more fights, perhaps more cooperation.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 10:25 PM
Hendley,

What you have brought up here has been one of the hardest things for us to get right. Finding the sweet spot for ground targets is hard because you just do not know how many players are going to be going after them. Its not like in a COOP mission when you can designate the number of bombers and their loadouts. If you make it too easy and all the sudden the server has 8 guys in ground pounders, then the map will only last 10-15 minutes. How many ground targets can 8 He111s with 2kg bombs take out? If you put too many ground targets, then you can never win the mission. So any ideas people might have, please do not hesitate to let us know. I hope this help better explain the trouble we have setting up ground targets.

NoBunny
01-26-2005, 10:29 PM
Why have a 50 slot server when you never get more than 15 players on there now. Make it private - give out passwords - no more noob problems. Oh btw - now theres only 12...

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-26-2005, 10:41 PM
Well NoBunny, Tuesdays and Wednesday are typically the slowest nights on the server. Been that way for months. For 4 hours tonight, the server was never under 30 players. Its a public server. Thats - That.

Von_Rat
01-26-2005, 10:42 PM
most of U.S prime time the server was nearly full. i was there.

why make it private, or better yet why do you care. if the public wants to play, let them i say.

GAU-8
01-26-2005, 11:32 PM
remember,

not everytime some one gets disconnected in the middle of the fight,its thier fault automatically. this has hapenned to me several times, and to others that i have been chasing. luckily on several occasions they got in touch with me, lettimg me know WC just decided to D-KICK them.

as a game, (and not compared to real life) i find it a little upsetting that 1 team or the other just vulching for 5 minutes.
i say leave the bases alone, let them get up, we carry out the objectives, and if we meet, we meet.

FI.Snaphoo
01-26-2005, 11:59 PM
That would be great if everyone, heck most, would do that. But the reality is that "vulching" is the quickest and, in some cases, the most tactical way for the "defending side" to complete the defense of their objectives. After all, if you take out the pilots...

I don't necessarily like it. Nor am I particularly fond of the "one death and you're out" change. But I'll give it a shot or two to see if I can handle it. Most people seem to be happy about the novice deterrent that the one deathkick offers.

I liked the server for it's immersion. This doesn't feel like immersion to me. This feels like a way to be elitist. If you keep the new players out, then it will be fun for the rest of "us". I may be wrong. If I am, I'll admit it. It wouldn't be the first time.

As long as they're going to "make things more realistic" how about fixing it so that the red and blue sides can't type to each other? It's not like they could chat it up while flying anyway. As long as we're in the business of making things realistic...

On a positive side, prior to the deathkick change, I liked the missions that were coming up on the server... I liked the fact that the opposing sides base didn't show up on my map. I liked the missions given to either side, ground pounding, or defense. The "mission brief" seemed to be a bit more informative than in the past.

x__CRASH__x
01-27-2005, 12:03 AM
I talked to Sparx on comms tonight, and he told me that he was going to try this out for a week. I said I would sit it out for a week, but I lied, and ended up flying anyway.

I managed to do ok, but there weren't many people on the server. less than 10 when I left. But I still don't favor the rule. I would prefer, as Sparx suggested, a 2 kill limit, if not 3. It would still give you a change to redeem your mission if you get cheap shot, or hit some bad luck.

MOH_HEATER_
01-27-2005, 12:46 AM
Just giving my 2cents...

I dig it Sparx thanks! Makes the game much more exciting...again.

Von_Rat explained it best...

New set's have my vote!

Von_Rat
01-27-2005, 02:14 AM
i don't think its elitest.

but i'll admit to one thing. i really dislike having a enemy plane chase my dora right into a pack of 109s, shooting me up and not caring that he'll never make it back alive.

the better pilots on warclouds will break off and not suicidally chase me down. they care about their pilots lives, so did real life pilots. i just hate dieing to a suicidal pilot, who doesn't care about his.

i already see the 1 death kick is having a effect, im having less enemy planes chase me into certain death.

WOLFMondo
01-27-2005, 04:11 AM
Sparx, I did find last night GMT that the blues had a majority on the server and on TS, no one was in Red TS. With the one death kick, while fine when teams are balanced and people are on TS on both sides, when there is no one on Ts on one team and allot on the other its basically suicide as you cannot compete with people on TS compared to typing in the chat, especially when you've been cornered and cannot stop concentrating for a second.

When I was on people were leaving the red team and joining the blue to team or quiting altogether because of this. There wasn't only majorly stacked teams but a communication issue.

pourshot
01-27-2005, 04:35 AM
I dont like this 1 death kick at all, in one sortie I severly damaged 2 he-111's (I could have finished both off completly but why not let the guy bail) any way returning to base I see a plane behind me and close to the HE-111 I just shot.

Turns out it's a 190 looking to steal a kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif(to bad it was one of his) anyway zooming up to ID it I get a face full of cannon shells LOL.

Anyway I escape and run for base to bail my engine shot and windscrean full of oil. On setting coarse for home one of the he-111's ends up right in my gunsite, clearly he's headed to my base for a kamikazi attack. So I blast him some more on my way past. Continuing on to my base I bail only to be shot out of my chute by the same 190.

Now in it self thats preety poor sportsmanship but considering the 1 death kick it's really pathetic.(you know who you are)

So whats the rules on this server for chute killing just for my information?

Lucius_Esox
01-27-2005, 04:54 AM
As I have already said Sparx I admire your actions in doing this. What IS going on with people being so,,,, rude about it? It's crazy. There are alternatives, i.e. other servers. I also think the term "elitist" is being used to replace an honest attempt at "realism". I appreciate that at the moment there could be an imbalence with blue's best tactics seemingly being to defend in numbers with the best m/c poss. It's almost as if people are saying this is unfair, I cant compete with this, change it back. Well I have wargamed for many years although I do not claim to be any expert but even I can see a way to "win" if you are playing red, almost every time. Teamwork and tactics! Unfortunately this requires a certain amount of experience/skill/knowledge of online flying to implement correctly, but for sure it can be done. My point is that if you are not up to it at the moment IT GIVES YOU SOMETHING TO AIM AT, to improve, get better etc. I know from my days of trying to be the best at something I could it was in most cases only worth training with the best you could find. Yep I know there are noobs on w/clouds, or people like myself, not that good but wanting to get better. Unfortunately it's a competitive world out there and I say to people who say "it's only a game" wtf are getting so uptight about it for, "play" somewhere else then. It is very hard, and some of the gripes that people have come up with are genuine imo, but they can be worked out. I think this is the way forward for the "serious" simmer and applaud the Laissez Fair attitude. This sim is realistic enough in it's scope to "force" people to use realistic tactics to gain their sides objectives, as I've said above even I can see how to do it. I think it will pan out excellent if people give it a chance. Interestingly I wonder if one or two aces with the ability of Hartman et el in relative terms were present on the WC server wether or not they could stop blue losing the map, they didn't in real life and for sure it wasn't always about numbers. On a side note which will probably get me banned I wonder about peoples ages who are so rude on this site. We all take account of someones post number (I know this because when the new forum came in I lost all my prev posts and got listened to less) maybe we should all start posting our ages as well,,,,,,, oops to far, and probably wrong!

My tuppenceworth

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
01-27-2005, 06:34 AM
I went on for 30 minutes last night, and flew into about 5 BF-109s and FW-190s sitting right on the deck.
I didn't see any change in behaviour on the server. The fighting seems to be exactly the same, just now with a higher pilot turnover.

I couldn't see any effect the 1 death kick had, in terms of how people fight.

Diablo310th
01-27-2005, 07:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
SPARX

i love the new 1 death your out rule,,, i can't beleive people are complaining about a measly 5 minute ban. go to the john or grap a beer. if you find your spending to much time being banned. that means you gotta fly smarter, and in my opinon more realistic.

a very nice side effect of this is that people are starting to fly at more historical altitudes. there seems to be less ridiculous 50m furballs.

this is supposed to be a sim on ww2 air combat, not battling hovercraft. so anything that moves the airwar up, im all in favor of. i've already fought in serveral battles at 8k and up, fantastic.

this isn't the eastern front, most of these planes were designed for medium to hi alt bnz or e fighting. start learning how to fly your planes correctly, you'll live longer, and spend less time banned.

real pilots don't throw their lives away, and to many people on warclouds were doing just that before.

as for not being beginner friendly, when was warclouds ever beginner friendly. when i was new to il2, i got my *** handed to me repeatly on warclouds, and i wasn"t a newbie to flight sims.

warclouds has the reputation of being the place where the best fly. if you wanna learn there, be ready to die alot, i did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VonRat...I couldn't have said it better. Like you...when i started flying online I got my butt handed to me all the time. You learn to fly smarter and better. The better the competition the better you will get. I flew last night foir teh first time with teh new 1 DK. It really wasn't bad...and like you said...alot more fights at realistic alts.

Xses_08
01-27-2005, 07:37 AM
What I have found so far is that people on comms strive harder to keep their fellow wingmen alive, as their loss is now a harder blow. Its no longer, "he can just respawn and be back in the sky a few seconds later", you notice their loss a lot more, because they wont be waiting at the airbase to save your **** or flying to your location to reform up with you.

Flak has seemingly become more of a deterent.
Also for those of you who dont have a mic. As Stacko said to me on Teamspeak, there is nothing stopping any of you downloading and setting up TS so as to listen in and get updates on enemy position, as well as that call for you to break or check 6 that could possibly save you from heading to the penalty box. I cant tell you how many times I've watched a 109 or 190 bounce a friendly plane and had to just watch it happen because that person wasnt on WarClouds comms.

I think as more people get used to this 1 life kick, the more they will either like it or accept it and change their tactics more in line with what was used on the Western Front.

Good job its only time you loose now and not your life.

5 minutes.
Use the time wisely and grab yourself another beer from the fridge.

S!

pourshot
01-27-2005, 08:25 AM
All complaining aside I dont think you will ever see realistic tactics on any server death kick or not. Dont get me wrong I see people from time to time give it a go but it normaly ends up a shambles, just ask yourself when was the last time you witnessed a team flying a finger four in a dogfight server. If you cant get something as basic as formations right well you get my point.

Sparks I give you a big thumbs up for effort mate but if your doing this for realisim it does not work, on the other hand if your doing it to get a better turn over of pilots during busy times then great, it sure will give more players a chance to join your server and that in itself is not so bad.

BullShark 71
01-27-2005, 08:36 AM
Its really not a big deal,everyone is flying smarter and that includes myself,I have noticed that people will breakaway from chase much quicker than before.And it does add some extra excitement trying to stay alive.

I even from the beginning made sure I could takeoff in any plane I was planning on flying before venturing online,also when I spawn in I listen good for AA fire or air raid sirens before I fly.Usually I will look for the vulcher and/or make a decision to refly or choose another spawn.Let me also add that I havent ever even been vulched on WC server though I do know it goes on sometimes.

There is the occassional "oh shat" spawn right in front of you plane ,even if you are careful ,but for me this has been very rare occurence but a few close-calls.

One thing that happened to me last night that scared me a bit was on the Normandy map I was at 5000 along the coast in spit and I see a 109 on my six closing,I had just seen 2 109 dive and was regaining alt as after losing them in there dive.So I look in mirror at 5000 see 109 closing still out of range but close enough to read icon,I had good speed and was fixing to manuever and I get "BullShark71 has been auto kicked" or something like that ?Is this message I received visible to everyone or would it be in track?I just say this as to the issue of the disco-pilots ,I think its happened twice in a month or so but I can imagine if we had been in fight and I was shotup what would be said?

I suppose I will join comms soon,I hopped on the other day and it was slow but it was early aswell.One problem I have with comms is that I hear gunfire and engine sounds that are extremely far away and the tend to "mess with me " if you will.Does anyone else hear this while using headdset?

Well sorry for all the questions here but bottomline is that WC is still plenty fun and more challenging.Personally either setting you decide on is fine by me,worst case scenario you get 5 minutes to think about it then you can fly again and again etc...I always have to take a break between flight at least a minute or two anyways,especially with this track ir I bought last week I have to stretch my neck from zoning out on that intense monitor action http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VO1-VC
01-27-2005, 11:45 AM
An interesting concept, the one kill kick. I mostly fly bombers, and noted that I get a lot more "escort" company with this server format on WC.

A bonus for the fighter, is the AI gunners in the bomber (B-25 or He-111) will alert them if the enemy gets in range, and are thus less likely to get shot down without a chance to mount a defence. I suspect most know this, and it is part of the reason for wanting to escort with this new rule in effect.

It is worth running like this for a week to see what happens - quite frankly, I think it was a brilliant idea.

a.k.a.
Nominal

IDF_Raam
01-27-2005, 12:18 PM
I have already expressed my opinion, so i will not repeat it - but i must say this is one of the more interesting threads i have seen in quite some time. Those issues are what make the game more interesting, and it is certainly worth hearing other people views. The nomber of people involved in this conversation proves it.

nickdanger3
01-27-2005, 12:37 PM
I still haven't had a chance to try the 1 DK WC because for the first time in a long time I got to go surfing !

--- NOW HANG ON THIS ISN'T OT !! ------

Having two little (under 3) kids and a wife that works fulltime means that I can't hit the waves as much as I used to. Now I have to wait till everybody is asleep until I get some time to myself and so IL2/FB/PF/WC has become the new obsession. And the last couple days I've been dreading getting repeatedly DK'ed and using up all that precious personal time in the penalty box.

Anyway, so I'm all out of practice in getting the gear ready for the quick trip to the beach when i realize - WHERE THE HECK'S MY LEASH ? ! (For those non-surfers, the leash connects the surfboard to your ankle, maybe 8' long rope basically, so that if you wipe out, you don't have to swim to retreive your board).

I wasn't gonna lose valuable surfing time looking for it,....
I sure wasn't gonna NOT go surfing for lack of a leash....so on the way to the beach (HERE COMES THE NON-OT PART - thnaks for waiting)

I realized it was the same as the one DK on WC !

When you surf without a leash you surf smart. (You should always surf smart and never lose your board because it may accidentally hit somebody else, even if it is tethered to you - but honestly, you are more willing to push the envelope w/ a leash on). If you lose your board, your punishment is wasting time and energy swimming after it.

I had a great time. Never lost my board (the waves were small). And now with the proper perspective in place I'm ready for some 1DK WC.

sunflower1
01-27-2005, 01:04 PM
nickdanger3--- http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

It would be fascinating to parse the opinions here in relation to age of the pilot.

As I get older, I find the moments that you remember and are worth remembering are the ones where your "mind is right." That's different for everyone but many become more discerning as to what this is for themselves as they get older.

To spend only 5 minutes to get a perfect session of surfing is cheap, isn't it nick?

nickdanger3
01-27-2005, 01:26 PM
Amen. Here endeth the lesson.