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Manu-6S
10-03-2006, 11:33 AM
First of all sorry for my english http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now I really don't know if an idea like mine is been already described, but here it is:

I used to play "America's Army" and I love one thing of this game: player's level and stats (who raises only if you play on an official server, that can be an clan server too).

IF you don't know this game I'm going to try to explain to you: when you play a map of this game all your stats are stored in the main server and, like every kind of online game, you gain or lose points if you complete missions or you make mistakes (like friendly kill or losing the mission when you are the leader).

More point you have more high is your level: I don't play since 2 years but I think I was 38 when I left to play Il2 constantly.

Why do we need a player's level?

I'm actually playing Red Orchestra and what really piss me are the noobs and the professional Friendly Killers who ruins the sessions.

You won't find these guys in America's Army since there is a level range limit as server option. If you play on a "pro" server you will never find noobs or FKs since their levels are usually too low to play there.

Ok, this is only the first part of my idea for Sow.

Lets talk about stats: men love numbers and stats are the way to record carriers.

I would like to have some GLOBAL STATS accessible by unique user login (something like GTR, and it's a good anti-piracy system too).

But again in this way you'll find the same guys who prefer losing their plane for some more kills; my idea is a limited number of "deaths" for the main stats server (updates by official servers only) and, after these reach zero, you'll have a "reset" of the stats.

How to gain more deaths? high level, high death numbers. (ie: you start with 3 deaths and you add 3 more deaths every 10 level).

Obviously POWs are deaths too like it is now.

And if you want simply to have an "happy hour"? You can always fly on an unofficial server or host your game.

What do you think about this?

Manu-6S
10-03-2006, 11:33 AM
First of all sorry for my english http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now I really don't know if an idea like mine is been already described, but here it is:

I used to play "America's Army" and I love one thing of this game: player's level and stats (who raises only if you play on an official server, that can be an clan server too).

IF you don't know this game I'm going to try to explain to you: when you play a map of this game all your stats are stored in the main server and, like every kind of online game, you gain or lose points if you complete missions or you make mistakes (like friendly kill or losing the mission when you are the leader).

More point you have more high is your level: I don't play since 2 years but I think I was 38 when I left to play Il2 constantly.

Why do we need a player's level?

I'm actually playing Red Orchestra and what really piss me are the noobs and the professional Friendly Killers who ruins the sessions.

You won't find these guys in America's Army since there is a level range limit as server option. If you play on a "pro" server you will never find noobs or FKs since their levels are usually too low to play there.

Ok, this is only the first part of my idea for Sow.

Lets talk about stats: men love numbers and stats are the way to record carriers.

I would like to have some GLOBAL STATS accessible by unique user login (something like GTR, and it's a good anti-piracy system too).

But again in this way you'll find the same guys who prefer losing their plane for some more kills; my idea is a limited number of "deaths" for the main stats server (updates by official servers only) and, after these reach zero, you'll have a "reset" of the stats.

How to gain more deaths? high level, high death numbers. (ie: you start with 3 deaths and you add 3 more deaths every 10 level).

Obviously POWs are deaths too like it is now.

And if you want simply to have an "happy hour"? You can always fly on an unofficial server or host your game.

What do you think about this?

Hoarmurath
10-03-2006, 02:45 PM
What you are looking for is virtual online wars.There are a number of them that are going on on hyperlobby.

All online wars keep track of your virtual career.

The game allow for many different forms of virtual online wars, wich is a good thing IMO.

Manu-6S
10-04-2006, 08:29 AM
It's not the same thing.

Online wars are open and you can't really know if the enemy is a serious pilot or a deathly kamikaze.

Example? I found guys waiting over my airfield to finish the damaged planes or any landing player, totally disregarding the mission.

The problem here is the lack of flak, I know, but more flak means more lag.

I think there are some dogfight servers with great pilots: but also in these servers you can find the crazy guy who rams your bomber over your own territory, losing his virtual life only to ruin your mission.

And what about the lonewolf who don't help you when you are in trouble?

I wish a way to fly with sensible pilots only, never caring about the bad apples.

IMO a global stats system and the pilot's level are the solution (except using "private" game sessions, but this is another story).

WWSensei
10-04-2006, 08:58 AM
A global stats system won't be the cure-all. metrics seldom measure true performance for long because the act of measuring will change the behavior.

For example, you chose the number of deaths as a metric. The natural result will be people avoiding situations that may result in deaths. I can tool around at 7000m and get an occasional kill--never helping a wingman in the process or achieving other goals like ground pounding.

In fact, I'd predict that an over reliance on death counts would result in the elimination of ground attack missions since the game is incapable of hosting a game with the sufficient number of ground attack aircraft to make surviving long much of a choice.

For example, the base hovering pilot looking for easy kills around the home base? -- your stats system described so far would do nothing to stop that and probably encourage it. Ditto for the lonewolf.

Global stats and open servers work only in the short term and they degenerate. I've played AA and seen their system and the Global Stats system resulted in the exact same thing you see in every online game--a handful of servers attracting a certain subset of the players. Other games just refer to them as Favorites list.

Being doing online simming since the mid-90s in a variety of genre's and it's never changed. the games and the rules and the stats tracked have, but never the end result.

If you want to consitently fly with like-minded people sharing a common goal of enjoyment of the game the only thing I've seen consistently work are private matches inviting only those players you enjoy playing with anyway.

The world is just too big with too many people with too varying of opinions to think a few stats are going to change things.

Manu-6S
10-04-2006, 10:50 AM
I understand your point of view, but I think you miss one thing: the mission itself.

Just like on the other virtual wars the accomplishment of the mission is the main target.

You can claim 5 kills but if you lose the damned mission you'll not gain full points : ie, 5 kills but mission lost = 50p instead of 500p.

Idem for the bombers: was this carrier more dangerous than the fighter carrier? Just reward the ground kills with a lot more points than a single kill. (after how many missions the bomber's crews were discharge? 25? and the figher's pilots?)

The lonewolf or the hovering pilots could have fun of their great number of kills, but in the level rank he'll be under the guy who claimed half the kills but who did his job to win the battles.
And so he will remain in average servers playing against average-poor pilots and noobs (who'll make experience) and will not have a chances to compare himself with the elite pilots.

The same story with pilots who jump on the strong side only to win the match but are too scared to take a risk and remain inert all the game.

Here I'm not speaking about game like WOW there you can't buy an armor if your level isn't high enough, since you gain level with experience (kills and quest).
What I mean is that only "results" can allow you to play in determinated servers.

I was talking to you about RO: yes, there are the great servers with very good players but you always find rushers and kamikazes who, imo, ruins the simulation. (and what about the respawn killers?)

Did really exist soldiers who run against the enemy in open space to nade them all, losing their life? or maybe did they remain covered and really defended their objective?

How to restrain this kind of players (who are in il2 too)? IMO Using stats where mission results are rewared lot more than kills and, above all, reset isn't an option but a penalization.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WWSensei
10-05-2006, 09:06 AM
I didn't miss the mission success thing. I meant it didn't matter. Whatever metric you choose to use won't change how people play. People who like to play the way you do will gravitate toward each other naturally. Global stats won't either encourage that or change the behavior of people who do not care for the objectives.

If you want to play the game to your liking then posting on a forum about how you like to play and looking for others that feel the same way is several orders of magnitude more effective than a global stats program.

My own squad has been in existence, participating in pretty much every type of online war scenario since 1992. Today we don't participate in many of the open online wars, preferring our own series of WWBattles format (shameless plug for wwbattles.com) against a couple of other squads we've come to enjoy flying against or with.

We don't track stats or winners or losers. The goal is to have fun. we fly one side of the event and then after a couple of weeks we switch and fly the other side of the same map setup. Generally, it's based on historical battles or portions of a battle. We get a kick out of it as do the others. Other pilots, however, may not like the format at all and would never fly it--regardless of Global Stats or not.

I guess my rather long winded point is that truly elite pilots are more concerned about the format and scenario of the fight rather than score card. They don't worry about stats because they already know and believe their skills are superior to others. If the first question on entering a server or virtual war is "How are stats tracked?" then, in my opinion, you've already missed the point.

Elite pilots are never determined by a spreadsheet.

One final note, if because of language differences or the difficulty in expressing proper tone in written communication any of my statements seem harse, rude, or argumentative I apologize as I don't intend them that way. I view this as a friendly discussion in the virtual pilot's ready room over a nice cold virtual beer. ;-)