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general_kalle
05-01-2008, 09:31 AM
had one experience with the ai that impressed me. didnt think AI could aktually teach me anything..but i was wrong.

flying offline testing a mission i made.
Battle of britain on the Finland map:

I was flying my Ju88 home having escaped the dogfight furball. where all the fighters were.
upon reaching the coast a single Hurricane catched up. it pass my High 8, then 9, 10,
at 11 (rougly) he made a diving turn into my 12 low. going across my direktion.
Then, Continueing a shallow speed increasing turn turned direktly into me.
at that time he was on my 1 low heading straight for me.
i tried to shoot at him but it's a blind angle on the Ju88 and i think it would be the same in a Heinkel.
he opened fire still on 1 low within range.

the bullets killed everyone. i dont quite remember but i think he set fire to at least one engine.

i tried doing that meneuver myself flying a hurricane on a Ju88 but i couldn't get it right. guess it takes some pratice.

an exellent way to attack a bomber.

anyone else aktually learnt anything from the AI?

mortoma
05-01-2008, 11:06 AM
The reason why you could not duplicate it is because the AI bots can do things you can't flying the same plane. That includes a 2 to 3% speed advantage, no blacking out, no dive/speed/Vne limit and just the ablility to do silly maneuvers that are impossible to us. I should know, I've been a 95% offline player since the IL2 demo. I know them buggers well.

DKoor
05-01-2008, 11:08 AM
Their strong point in attacking bombers is that they usually concentrate on outer bomber's wing... so they put at least one-two sec. of concentrated fire to one spot... no wonder they are good killers that way.
In some instances they go for player (if he mans machine gun).

Too bad due to limitations of current engine, your bomber is doomed if you get killed in any position (unless there is another player in bomber).

general_kalle
05-01-2008, 12:19 PM
its not impossible to do at all.
its not neccecary to have
speed advantage, no blacking out, no dive/speed/Vne limit and the ablility to do silly maneuvers that are impossible to us.

it was a shallow turn, nothing special.
you just have to time it right. when to begin the turn and how sharply/shallowly to turn to get into the right position.

what made it so impressive was that it's not impossible to do at all.

wish i had a track of it.

M2morris
05-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Oh yeah, those AI bots can do things that you can't. Just tonite I was going against 2 FW 190s (Single-Aces always on 44%fuel) and I was trying to work on my BnZing like they do. I was in a P-51D.
I black- smoked one of them. But I ended up breaking my rythm and going against my BnZ tactics and I chased the other one down low, and I reached about 700 and something KPH, not sure, got right behind him, but my right wing came off, and that FW190 kept going and got away. So, hmm wtf man.

SeaFireLIV
05-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
The reason why you could not duplicate it is because the AI bots can do things you can't flying the same plane. That includes a 2 to 3% speed advantage, no blacking out, no dive/speed/Vne limit and just the ablility to do silly maneuvers that are impossible to us. I should know, I've been a 95% offline player since the IL2 demo. I know them buggers well.

how can that manouever not be repeatable?

All the AI did was come in on his high 11 fly across to his one level and attack from that angle, killing the crew in the bomber. For any one with basic experience of aircraft that`s repeatable with a little practise. It`s just a case of perfecting your approach ahead of the target and then attacking at the 1. oclock angle taking into account the closing speed of the bomber, then aim and shoot. it may not be easy, but certainly not impossible as in `only the AI` can do it. Only reason i haven`t tried this is because I never realised their was such a blind side there. i must give it a go.


And though you constantly deny it, AI has been changed much from the IL2 demo.
This is erroneous info and just puts people off from even trying.

Anyway, I`ve seen AI go high and do head-on attacks, cant recall ever seeing it try that angled manouever, but I may have simply assumed it to be a 12 oc head-on previously, since I never fly bombers and don`t see it from a bomber`s perspective.

mortoma
05-01-2008, 04:47 PM
The basic maneuver can be replicated but what I meant was that in many cases the AI bots can zoom a little faster, keep a little more energy than you and other things. The little extra "oomph" and power they have is something you can't replicate.

Can you dive a LA-5FN at 900Kph? I can't but the AI bots can. My LA-5FN disintegrates at 700-740Kph or so. Once I was in a jet and had an AI bot in a LA-5FN dive after me and sustain over 900KPH for over a minute until we leveled out. See if you can do that.

BWaltteri
05-02-2008, 01:42 AM
Keep your wingmen alive - they're some AI bots that fight for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And since the game is not 100% realist you can reboot if the whole squadron decides to kill themselves already on the runway (an enemy ace destroys plane #2 and then the remaining ones ram into that pile: it's not war it's the Il-2 AI).

Feathered_IV
05-02-2008, 05:35 AM
There was talk about AI being very dependent upon cpu power. After recently going from a 2.4ghz AGP and stepping up to a quad core beastie - I've got to say that the difference is amazing. I've had dozens of "Whoa! Look at THAT!" moments where ai allies and opponents have displayed all manner of offensive and defensive behaviour that I've never seen before.

Mortoma - if you've got a new rig now, keep your eyes peeled and be sure to make use of all the different ai skill levels. I reckon you'll be suprised too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LEBillfish
05-02-2008, 06:19 AM
Well I had a surprise encounter last night online that made me think I was fighting a live pilot.

In a Ki-61-I-Otsu, hit one Hellcat & I guess his lead came back. Simple enough as I saw him lose E to get on my tail, barrel roll and I'm on his six yet my first burst caused the surprise. His plane began to dive so I hit him again, at which point I thought I had a PK as it started to rudder roll hard as though the controls locked there as he corckscrewed toward the deck.

Have seen it a hundred times, had killed him, then lo and behold once I broke off he corrected and was back in it. Ok, so I clearly have me a live pilot. So I dive back in having held my alt, yet probably didn't get more then a second of time on his 6 before he broke hard right banking, yet then instantly rolled and hard left. So down we go, this gut very impressively evading and whomever it was I was most deffinately going to let them know I was impressed after, as he was keeping E best he could through the hard manuvers, yet would roll, and jink all over yet never rediculous amounts in a panic.

He then started side slipping quite a bit, then would slip hard the opposite way clearly more hard rudder manuevers. Yet finally, after numerous very creative tricks to lose me, he then barrel rolled hanging inverted yet then also slipped to slow, yet I never let him fall behind. He then low on alt began a weave back and forth hoping I'd slip past. We were both low on E yet in this state the Ki-61 dominates the Hellcat....So it was a simple matter of setting my sight vertically, and hosing him each time he'd cross my path.

Finally I got the PK, as at roughly 100m he rolled on his side and slipped down into the water.....A split second later after the kill was announced, I took a head shot and down I went.

Ok, well, turns out it was an AI.....and I've flown this sim almost daily since it's release in 03/03...I have never, ever encountered such a varied bag of tricks even from live pilots. Yet most of all the fight was VERY realistic. Maybe it was an ace I'm not sure, yet frankly I think I fly as well as any other here, and much better then AI.........Yet I wouldn't mind flying a bit more like that AI.

Stunning,

K2

BWaltteri
05-02-2008, 06:37 AM
Talking about skilled AI

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j269/Enrico_Zapata/screenshots/Record.jpg

DKoor
05-02-2008, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by BWaltteri:
Keep your wingmen alive - they're some AI bots that fight for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And since the game is not 100% realist you can reboot if the whole squadron decides to kill themselves already on the runway (an enemy ace destroys plane #2 and then the remaining ones ram into that pile: it's not war it's the Il-2 AI). +1

People really died stupid deaths in war, but these are over the top... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
And not only these.

Imagine Ai aircraft that lost engine or is badly hit and must crash land... and he's happily descending to the nearest forest to crash land http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif ... etc. etc.

Even best of the best Ai suffers from this...

So when you play the game it's kinda sad to see your mate, even electronic one, going to his virtual death out of utmost stupidity which probably plagues only most ******ed of humans.

DKoor
05-02-2008, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by BWaltteri:
Talking about skilled AI

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j269/Enrico_Zapata/screenshots/Record.jpg Once I flew stock German TA-152 campaign.... although a short one (around 30 missions), I lost only two of my Ai squadronmates!

Unbelievable, really.

They seemed to be all "experten" lol.

cawimmer430
05-02-2008, 07:48 AM
One time I was fooling around playing the Go-229 vs 1943 Zero's. Boy, those Zero's sure can easily keep up, climb and dive with that jet! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I take it an AI-controlled I-153 can climb with a human-flown Me-163B? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Phil_K
05-04-2008, 08:30 AM
I was playing the stock Seafire campaign once, and had just finished a mission over Iwo Jima, when my plane spontaneously combusted. I made a track as I was convinced this was a bug, and bugga me if I hadn't been boom-and-zoomed by an N1K1 OUT OF THE SUN.

It was creepily human the way it arced around my six just above the cloud layer, positioned itself in front of the sun on my 4, then pointed its nose down and dived toward me, before firing into my engine at perfect convergence.

Not seen anything like it since.

SeaFireLIV
05-04-2008, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
I was playing the stock Seafire campaign once, and had just finished a mission over Iwo Jima, when my plane spontaneously combusted. I made a track as I was convinced this was a bug, and bugga me if I hadn't been boom-and-zoomed by an N1K1 OUT OF THE SUN.

It was creepily human the way it arced around my six just above the cloud layer, positioned itself in front of the sun on my 4, then pointed its nose down and dived toward me, before firing into my engine at perfect convergence.

Not seen anything like it since.

That`s pretty good.

It also shows how the AI can be sometimes very good, but people are very good at looking at the bad in a disproportionate way (ie, simply not seeing the good stuff at all), even to the point of blaming some actions of the AI as bugs.

Few are able to sit back and see what the overall picture was that the AI had to deal with.

Gnomie
05-04-2008, 01:52 PM
I keep getting my behind handed to me on a plate by the AI. But I attribute that to my n00biness. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JSG72
05-04-2008, 05:50 PM
Darned AI Know when you are out of Ammo. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

They just dance about in front of you. Ripping the P***!

julian265
05-05-2008, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by M2morris:
Oh yeah, those AI bots can do things that you can't. Just tonite I was going against 2 FW 190s (Single-Aces always on 44%fuel) and I was trying to work on my BnZing like they do. I was in a P-51D.
I black- smoked one of them. But I ended up breaking my rythm and going against my BnZ tactics and I chased the other one down low, and I reached about 700 and something KPH, not sure, got right behind him, but my right wing came off, and that FW190 kept going and got away. So, hmm wtf man.

You pulled the stick too hard whilst at that speed. The '51 loses a wing 'easily' from pilot induced G forces. If you're smooth, you'll get the '51 up to 900 before it breaks.

julian265
05-05-2008, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
had one experience with the ai that impressed me. didnt think AI could aktually teach me anything..but i was wrong. SNIP

That attack would be good to apply to an online fight, but the AI gunners don't seem to have their view or arcs of fire as limited as the human gunners. Most noticed example - attacking a 110 from low 6 (before it pulls up)

I'm often impressed by the evasive maneuvers of the AI too.

DKoor
05-05-2008, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by julian265:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M2morris:
Oh yeah, those AI bots can do things that you can't. Just tonite I was going against 2 FW 190s (Single-Aces always on 44%fuel) and I was trying to work on my BnZing like they do. I was in a P-51D.
I black- smoked one of them. But I ended up breaking my rythm and going against my BnZ tactics and I chased the other one down low, and I reached about 700 and something KPH, not sure, got right behind him, but my right wing came off, and that FW190 kept going and got away. So, hmm wtf man.

You pulled the stick too hard whilst at that speed. The '51 loses a wing 'easily' from pilot induced G forces. If you're smooth, you'll get the '51 up to 900 before it breaks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>+1

Generally I always tend to make wider circle when following Ai bandit, and when we slow down a bit that's when I tighten it...

Not only wings falling off are prevented but also blackouts too.

DKoor
05-05-2008, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by julian265:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
had one experience with the ai that impressed me. didnt think AI could aktually teach me anything..but i was wrong. SNIP

That attack would be good to apply to an online fight, but the AI gunners don't seem to have their view or arcs of fire as limited as the human gunners. Most noticed example - attacking a 110 from low 6 (before it pulls up)

I'm often impressed by the evasive maneuvers of the AI too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>At one occasion I almost said that too, because there was something weird about how they shoot at me... I was approaching low six on Ai Stuka and he was able to pull some shots at me...

However I cannot verify this 100% but I'll play a bit in QMB... shouldn't be too hard to check... record the track and then replay from Ai plane zoomed up on gunner. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
05-05-2008, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
i tried doing that meneuver myself flying a hurricane on a Ju88 but i couldn't get it right. guess it takes some pratice.

I find that our lack of peripheral vision makes a whole lot of attacks harder than they should be.

I like to BnZ from the side and the inability to hold sight on target while watching my path
and occasionally the instruments is a real pain. The best thing is to be able to run in PL
with a thumb button set to "look forward while in PL" that lets me snap my view between target
and forward, it's a little bit to make up for the lack. Imagine trying to drive in heavy mixed
traffic like that or just watch how half-fixated-on-the-cell-call drivers frequently screw up!

SeaFireLIV
05-05-2008, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
At one occasion I almost said that too, because there was something weird about how they shoot at me... I was approaching low six on Ai Stuka and he was able to pull some shots at me...

However I cannot verify this 100% but I'll play a bit in QMB... shouldn't be too hard to check... record the track and then replay from Ai plane zoomed up on gunner. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Stuka cannot hit you from dead six just below, but if you edge slightly to the 5 or 7oc he seems to be able to get a shot in.

general_kalle
05-05-2008, 08:46 AM
my point was that the ai sometimes have some quite nice taktics that doesnt neccecarily have to be impossible to repeet. such as the one i experienced.

im tired to hear about what unfair and so on.

DKoor
05-22-2008, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
At one occasion I almost said that too, because there was something weird about how they shoot at me... I was approaching low six on Ai Stuka and he was able to pull some shots at me...

However I cannot verify this 100% but I'll play a bit in QMB... shouldn't be too hard to check... record the track and then replay from Ai plane zoomed up on gunner. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Stuka cannot hit you from dead six just below, but if you edge slightly to the 5 or 7oc he seems to be able to get a shot in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That seems to be correct.... I checked in-game situation and it seems that he pulls very skilled, but possible shots...

Also Ai pilot and its gunners are "working together" (fishtailing etc.) so it would seem like they are more dangerous than they really are...

SeaFireLIV
05-22-2008, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:


Also Ai pilot and its gunners are "working together" (fishtailing etc.) so it would seem like they are more dangerous than they really are...

that`s what i also thought too, cos i`d get dead behind him and low, but a few second later he`d have a bead on me again. It occured to me that the pilot must be adjusting his plane to aid the gunner. Nice.