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View Full Version : Battle for Europe first please Oleg!!!



XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:31 PM
With B17,B24, Lanc and so either, all sot of Spit, hurri, me109, fw190, zerstorster....

is this possible in the future or not?

or just some map perhaps, it will be great !

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:31 PM
With B17,B24, Lanc and so either, all sot of Spit, hurri, me109, fw190, zerstorster....

is this possible in the future or not?

or just some map perhaps, it will be great !

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 02:56 PM
BUMP

But I doubt that the FB Engine would allow Battles of dozends of B17s, B24s, Mustangs and German Interceptors. Or hundrets as it should be . But it shurely would be amazing to fly with 20 Fw 190s and Bf 190s against a 300 + Bomberstream and some more Mustangs . Ahhh, a Dream, but lets see what the Future will allow to simulate on modern PSs.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:00 PM
yes, that is the problem of all flight simulator...the power of PC...

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:26 PM
Not so fast. With an olde Pentium 133 I could get 100 aircraft dogfighting in DOS Flanker 1.0 with some pretty decent AI dogfighting skills--with smooth frame~rate.

You would think we could sim at least 200 AI aircraft today. Something is going wrong. Maybe its FB's use of all that Java molasses.

So called "flight combat sims" are turning into pure Flight Sims:: just enough aircraft to have a personal dogfight with one other plane, or, maybe two. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Message Edited on 07/02/0309:29PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:37 PM
In EAW I could have 200 a/c in view using on a 1.0M machine. Some were dots though.


http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/white-dickeautos.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:17 PM
Yes I heard about that sim with B~17s if I am correct. I am still personally conflicted between AI FM detail and numbers of AI aircraft.

I was just thinking that part of Oleg's FM problem is that he is using one "realistic physics" model to calculate *huge* numbers of vastly different flyable aircraft types. Such physical approximation will fail miserably the more aircraft you must model and the less you can tweak the physics for the one or two flyable aircraft the highly mathematical flight sims (like Flanker) limit themselves to.

I dunno what I'm talking about. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 09:00 AM
The fact is that with actual PC, you can not have a sim with the detail (AI & FM & detailed aircraft) of FB with a lot of plane because of the time of calcul...but if Oleg is beginning the job (a map in first for example) and after the plane, so in 1 or 2 years, a such sim will become real!!

200-300 bombers, and 300 fighters!! that will be excellent!

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:05 AM
Also look at new technology that is always comming forward, example a new Radeon card now has 256MB of DDR Ram, thats now, a few years down the road who knows what we will have, and its capabilities.

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:40 AM
Fancy video cards and fancy ground grafix will not help with large air battles--that's all CPU calculations. You can notice it in FB when you get enough aircraft going. With just a few aircraft, slowing down to 1/4 time does not help frame~rate, but when you get many aircraft, slowing down does increases fram~rate.

---> http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:54 AM
Yes, CPU calculate the flight model and video cards are just here to have an image on the screen! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:43 AM
A little "problem" with European air warfare:: how many aircraft can FB support to sim a battle between bombers, escorts, and interceptors, not to mention flak? Without radical changes done about AI calculations, this is not going to work.

The only advantage high altitude bomber escort/intercept offers is possibly simplified (not well used in flight sims) high altitude grafix, but that too gets choked by more than about 30 AI aircraft total, no matter the Video Card Pro. Low altitude ground attack will not have this advantage, but then fewer aircraft are not so unrealistic so this may be possible. But then forget high altitude B~17/Dora/P~51 or He111/fb109/Spitfire furballs.

A European air combat sim that would satisfy Euro air war lovers won't work under FB engine. Internet dogfights between 2 aircraft may be possible, but not a strategic bombing escort/intercept air combat sim. Think about it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

The reason nobody whines (~yet~) about lack of air battles in FB is because nobody knows of the massive air battles that occured in Eastern Front. Just wait till they get a European air combat sim.



Message Edited on 07/04/0309:51AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:58 AM
Even in the event it were possible to simulate 100+ heavy bombers, something would have to be done about the wildly overmodeled accuracy of bomber defensive fire. A 30-plane formation of B-17s would simply wipe attacking fighter formations from the sky. It's irritating when flying FB, but flying against U.S. bomber formations with the present model would be pointless. The game's lifespan on the hard drives would be measureable in minutes.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:21 AM
I want to see the Med first (love the Italian fighters), and while I would love to see a Western Front sim of FB's quality, the technology will have to grow a bit more before it's possible to do it right. Right now it isn't possible even to simulate the rodeo operations over France in the Spring-summer of 1941, much less the big German raids of the Battle of Britain. And the massed heavy bomber raids of 1943-1944? No chance. FB simply can't do it.

However, it should be possible to do a campaign covering the attack on Poland, followed by the "phoney war" and then with operations in the attack on France in the Spring of 1940 (we'd only need to add a few aircraft for the French campaign, a number of which are going to come with the Med expansion).

And why not the German campaign over the Scandinavian region, or the German assault on Crete? Or maybe "Operation Marita" against Yugoslavia? Or the Spanish Civil war? There are several "forgotton battles" which ARE portrayable by the FB system.

Let's ask for the do-able stuff. We'll have to wait for the others.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:05 PM
ok, not for now the Battle for Europe, because of the PC are powerless, but isn't it possible to have some maps...for example UK, France, north of germany, denmark.....and Mediterranean???

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:27 PM
-- ok, not for now the Battle for Europe, because of the PC are powerless,

No, that is retreat and submission. We are giving up. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Something more is going on here, something so hideous we can't talk about it even among ourselves, and it makes us cry "no Battle for Europe." I wonder if new flight sims are put back 10 years in raw calculating performance by the Windows operating system.

Wow! The mental Denial is amazing. I guess the reason is that the only alternative is to whine, like me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif BoB and Flanker 1.0 could handle 100+ AI aircraft at one time--and Flanker almost 7 years ago with 133MHz Pentium (yes computers were once that slow). And Flanker had very realistic AI dogfighting maneuvers. What is going on here? What is happening to flight sims?




Message Edited on 07/04/0312:41PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:16 PM
I remember EAW....dozen and dozen planes and no pb with the fluidity...but not so beautiful...
perhaps there is now too many visual effects...

Th√©or√¬®me de Treiman : "Les choses impossibles sont des choses qui, en principe, n'arrivent jamais"

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:24 PM
hi,
agree 200 %..
we need new high advanced standards ...
IL2/FB experiences are the best base for further developments...
in the event of strong + serious reflaction of the old problems in the running game by the developers..

good luck..

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 08:26 PM
Ok for the med, North Africa, Greece, Italy and Yugoslavia would be really interresting countries.

It would allow more countries and more airplanes in a much less known before environment.

I'm afraid a "Battle over Europe" campaign would be, however historically correct, boring, with players having to fly a long, several hours long mission at high altitudes, before getting a short fight of a few minutes (and, after all, we saw these missions in so many simulators before...though I can understand the fans of this kind of missions who would like Oleg and his team to model them, as no other sim can even compare to Il-2 and FB, as far as fun and realism is concerned).

Tactical fighting is much more exciting with short sorties against ground or air targets in a high threat environment almost from the start.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 08:25 AM
http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

check the bottom suppost to be the fb addon


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 09:43 AM
Hi,
with regard to processor speeds in the near future consider this...
Now i read this at a trusted technology site a while ago. im pretty sure it was IBM, have a 300Ghz (yes you heard me right, 300GHZ) processor made and they tested this nearly a year ago. im sure that very soon we will see a tremendous leap in processors. i heard that first planned are steps of 10-20 Ghz at a time,(no doubt to suck the money out of people), One of the first processors planned is 20GHZ. Also check out the second link to another company making up to 200Ghz processors.

Im a Software Consultant Developer and only use trusted sources. heres links to some hardware sites that i use.
http://www.tomshardware.com/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/31561.html

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 09:54 AM
i'd prefer the med first,sry seb...

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:11 AM
Not Europe, PLEASE !!.

In the past ten years, we had enough sims with europe. Moreover, it appears that sims are better when dealing with small-scale battles than huge one.

Try to be more imaginative : Med (from syria to morocco and not only lybia/egypt...) could be a very good choice, but also a 36'Spain or a 39'russia vs japanese conflict or the pacific, but this time away from the navies (ie from a dutch, english, usaf and ija point of view )?

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 02:14 PM
I'd prefer to have our eastern sim completed.

I have yet to fly a pe2/pe3/il4/a20

Although the B17, etc.. would be better - LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
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Message Edited on 07/06/0301:14PM by Recon_609IAP