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View Full Version : HoMM VI Ideas for Battle Enhanced Features



Zanosan
11-20-2010, 09:20 PM
In addition to the great creature skills and battle features developed over the 5 installments of Heroes I propose the following ideas to make Heroes VI the best ever Heroes game to date. For me, the games heart has always been about the battles. I ask everyone to submit their ideas for improving the combat aspect of the game (^_^)

1. Terrain Counts. Heroes IV had some good ideas about range penalty based on distance and obstacles. I think elevation in terrain should matter. High terrain should provide range units with better range attack bonus or mitigate some of the distance/ obstacle penalties. Destroy Obstacles, raise obstacles. You should be able to summon obstacles like trees, walls, force fields but creatures and heroes should be able to destroy them as well.

2. Exchange of strikes and First Strike. Heroes IV concept that creatures should normally attack each other at the same time. Sure the retaliation strike can be less than the attack, but both should happen at the same time unless on creature has first strike and the other doesn’t.

3. Creature Artifacts/ equipment. Heroes V wizards had the great idea to create creature artifacts. Heroes VI could have normal equipment available for every faction and also have “enchanted artifacts” created by wizards.

4. Larger Interactive battle maps. Heroes VI is supposed have some larger maps and some interaction with larger maps allows for so much more strategy for positioning, flanking, movement logistics. Interactive map features like destructible bridges or “Trap terrain” like rock slides, collapsing cliffs or falling trees should cause damage when triggered.

5. Hexagon tiles is what a good turn based strategy game needs, it also helps with the determining mouse direction of attack, I had so much problem with Heroes V.

Zanosan
11-21-2010, 09:16 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

6. Heroes IV was brave enough to explore the idea of Heroes in combat. Though there were many problems with it, I also thought it was a fantastic first step.

Heroes VI can evolve the concept even further by:

a.) Heroes have a choice to join the combat stage or not. However, once a Hero joins the battle stage, the whole army will fall if the hero falls. By allow the choice of having a hero joining or not, low level heroes who have not developed skills to survive a battle can choose to stand behind the troops and flee if the hero decides to. (^_^)

b.) I personally like the idea of allowing multiple heroes in a battle like in Heroes IV, but only one hero is allowed to stand behind the troops.

c.) No hero-less armies allowed! From a theme/ story standpoint and logistics viewpoint it just it was more trouble than good.

d.) Hero avatars should be unique, each hero should be represented in the battlefield like their portraits show! I believe that in 2011, this should be a no brainer and would add so much value to gamers fun!

e.) Show artifacts on heroes and creatures! Ever since the first heroes game I’ve played (Heroes II) I’ve wished to see those awesome artifacts that players work hard to collect and equip shown in the battlefield! In multiplayer games, this would be so awesome!

f.) Smart self learning fuzzy logic, neural network AIs. I swear the AI in Heroes IV & V have been getting dumber and dumber. Game difficulty should be determined by how much cheating or starting resource manipulation is done against a player. Players should be able to select AI difficulty it campaigns and standalone maps.

SandroTheMaster
11-21-2010, 02:17 PM
As I said before, some visual cue to stacks.

Few - 1
Several - 2
Pack - 3
Lots - 4
Horde - 5
Throng - 6
Swarm - 7
Zounds - 8
Legion - 10

I believe in this day and age, just like generic hero place-holder during combat, to not have a visual cue to stack size is a faut pas that can come off as lazy.

But it is unlikely they'll implement any of that so far into development...

Zanosan
11-21-2010, 06:26 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Your so right SandroTheMaster! Now that you mention it, visual cue for stacks make so much sense!

How about when a player zoom in and out of the battlefield, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifzooming in those visual cues for showing stack size would work great and they revert to a standard 1 creature representation when a player zooms all the way out.

SwampLord450
11-21-2010, 06:56 PM
No offense, but given how much of a bomb Heroes IV was, I'd like to avoid including anything from it if possible. :P

I disagree with the concept of simultaneous retaliation; it removes the whole point of first-striking and thus takes away a valuable tactical element, as well as rewarding poor play for people who leave important stacks out in the open to get pummeled.

Visual cue to stacks is interesting, but it could start to clutter the map up a LOT, especially for the bigger creatures.

nqox
11-21-2010, 07:33 PM
I think not showing the artifacts on the hero on adventure map is good. Because seing my opponents artifacts beforehand or my artifacts being seen is not a nice thing. Some things are good when they are surprise.
Imagine a necro hero near me, planning to attack me. What a surprise it would be to him/her when I "puppet master" his/her Archlich as I have Sandro's Cloak.
That is just one example but I think I made my point.

wdcryer
11-22-2010, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by SwampLord450:
No offense, but given how much of a bomb Heroes IV was, I'd like to avoid including anything from it if possible. :P

In defense of Heroes IV, I think most of the reason it bombed was because the game was unfinished, not because of the combat changes. True, heroes could be too frail or too weak, especially in early levels, but a part of me is sad that they gave up on the idea of having heroes on the battlefield. I really admire all the risks they took in Heroes IV. Heroes V is great, but it plays it very safe.

Heroes on the battlefield is an interesting idea, but it carries a lot of risks. Strong stacks of dragons could wipe out spell-casting heroes easily by attacking them through any units guarding them. No hero should die that easily. I did really like stomping around the field with my barbarian heroes.

I like the idea of having more terrain effects on the battlefield. The tactics phase would become more interesting. It sounds like they are taking battles in that direction. They have mentioned flooding battlefields, for one. I have a little fear that it could go too far, though. If you add too many variables, it will make it difficult to determine a good strategy.

I wasn't a big fan of creature artifacts. I found it added a lot to keep track of.

As for hex tiles, I've grown to like the squares. Other threads have discussed how it is easier to have large creatures on a square grid.

Unique hero avatars and displaying artifacts on heroes would be cool, but I would definitely put those low on my priority list.

kodial79
12-03-2010, 12:13 PM
I don't support the idea of having heroes engaging units in combat. Having one hero engaging againt units numbering in the hundreds if not thousands, is rather silly and downright infuriating if he is able to defeat them too. It was the main reason I dropped HoMMIV.

And uh, if you haven't noticed by the screenshots already, the unique hero avatars are out of the question already. The Haven Hero, looks like he's the generic design. Though it would be really cool.

Now if there's anything I would like to see, is the fate of the defeated hero after the battle. Something like capturing him and keeping him in your town's prison until the enemy player pays for his release or execute him if you will. Enemy players might want them back if they had put a lot of effort to them. And ofcourse the stronger the captured hero is, the bigger the ransom too. Maybe a third option should be, for the enemy convince the defeated hero by paying him or something similar, to join his ranks. Oh ofcourse, you could also just let him walk away. You keep all the artifacts ofcouse, whichever the case!

A little bit of OPTIONAL Gore in the game, would also be nice. Absolutely not necessary though.

SwampLord450
12-03-2010, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SwampLord450:
No offense, but given how much of a bomb Heroes IV was, I'd like to avoid including anything from it if possible. :P

In defense of Heroes IV, I think most of the reason it bombed was because the game was unfinished, not because of the combat changes. True, heroes could be too frail or too weak, especially in early levels, but a part of me is sad that they gave up on the idea of having heroes on the battlefield. I really admire all the risks they took in Heroes IV. Heroes V is great, but it plays it very safe.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There also seemed to be a concern in HIV that things such as invulnerability potions could make heroes unkillable monsters that could wipe entire armies off of the battlefield. That's a bit silly, in my opinion. Even the hero attacking in V was frustrating, because the damage was so weird; heroes actually did more damage to higher tiers and could kill a Level 7 in like 1-2 attacks sometimes, which kind of sucked if it was early on and you only had a few of them.

KingImp
12-04-2010, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Zanosan:
1. Terrain Counts. Heroes IV had some good ideas about range penalty based on distance and obstacles. I think elevation in terrain should matter. High terrain should provide range units with better range attack bonus or mitigate some of the distance/ obstacle penalties. Destroy Obstacles, raise obstacles. You should be able to summon obstacles like trees, walls, force fields but creatures and heroes should be able to destroy them as well.

Another addition to this idea would be to add bonuses based on the terrain that the creature you attacked was standing on.

For example, in Heroes 3 there were special terrains that gave specific bonuses.
They were as follows:
Cursed Ground - no spells can be cast while on Cursed Ground. In combat native terrain, Luck and Morale have no effect.
Magic Plains - all Adventure and Combat spells are cast at Expert proficiency.
Magic Clouds - causes all Air Magic spells to be cast at expert level.
Lucid Pools - causes all Water Magic spells to be cast at expert level.
Fiery Fields - causes all Fire Magic spells to be cast at expert level.
Rocklands - causes all Earth Magic spells to be cast at expert level.
Clover Field - gives all Neutral aligned troops +2 luck.
Holy Ground - gives all Good aligned troops +1 morale, and Evil troops -1 morale.
Evil Fog - gives all Evil aligned troops +1 morale, and Good troops -1 morale.

GoranXII
12-04-2010, 01:16 PM
That would be interesting, except that we now have 7 magic schools, and only the Developer's word on which factions are 'good' and which are 'evil'. Personally I could live with only Cursed Ground and Magic Plains.

KingImp
12-05-2010, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
That would be interesting, except that we now have 7 magic schools, and only the Developer's word on which factions are 'good' and which are 'evil'. Personally I could live with only Cursed Ground and Magic Plains.

Well, those were obviously just an example of what could be done. Of course they would have to tweak them based on the amount of magic schools there are in the new game.

Lesij
12-06-2010, 08:39 AM
I think it actually can go here...
I just so freakin miss two hero classes for each and every faction!
Please, re-introduce: Knight and Cleric, Death Knight and Necromancer, Demon and Heretic, and so on and so forth.
It will give the game an awsome variability, which I think, HV lacked.

KingImp
12-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Lesij:
I think it actually can go here...
I just so freakin miss two hero classes for each and every faction!
Please, re-introduce: Knight and Cleric, Death Knight and Necromancer, Demon and Heretic, and so on and so forth.
It will give the game an awsome variability, which I think, HV lacked.

Well, you're in luck because they have already added that back into the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SandroTheMaster
12-06-2010, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Lesij:
I think it actually can go here...
I just so freakin miss two hero classes for each and every faction!
Please, re-introduce: Knight and Cleric, Death Knight and Necromancer, Demon and Heretic, and so on and so forth.
It will give the game an awsome variability, which I think, HV lacked.

Also, KingImp forgot to add that they also brought the advanced class concept from Heroes IV back, so its actually even more classes per faction.

Zanosan
02-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Well, now that more information about HoMM VI has dripped out... I would like to start tracking all the new in Battle Features and see whats new!

From today's screenshot of the day I see we have some race unique catapults! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thunion
02-02-2011, 02:08 PM
About heroes in comboat...Please no more archer hero with 2 arrows killing 80(or more) dwarves.Just try to imagine this... its phisicly not possible...and magicly:Imagine how power is needed to get arrow enough strnght to go trought the body the turn to another and like this 40 times(not to say arrow can break or somthing).good mage wont have such power what to talk about non magic barbarian..

Zanosan
02-05-2011, 10:40 AM
From the few battle screen shots I've seen thus far, I fear HoMM6 will not have unique hero Avatars. If FPS games are willing to create avatars for different characters.... I would hope HoMM6 would do the same!

It isn't over until its over, so I continue to dream.

Zanosan
02-25-2011, 10:04 AM
Today's Youtube HoMM6 Alpha combat video shows a few interesting things about the battle features in the new game.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?...DEF_UhnIfpAQ&h=06b97 (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DEF_UhnIfpAQ&h=06b97)


1. I looks like Turn Based combat is back, i think it was mentioned before... but I actually prefer the ATB style in Heroes V in some ways.

2. Heroes can act any time once per turn when a player's turn is active.

3. The battle field in the demo video looks FLAT! where is the terrain effects?

4. The effects to indicate shared damage/ defense by the pikemen are at little bit cheezy cause I would think in this day and age devs could animate more visually an act of defending another. I mean even in Heroes V the dark elves lizard raiders bite attack was animated well.

With possible changes of points 1,2... I think there is good and bad to it... but overall it can makes the game a little be more easy because the battle is less dynamic and more pre-determinable if that makes sense. I can see that I as a player would be able to strategies more in advance which I don't know if it is a good or bad thing yet. I just hope the AI is super smart/ hard in Heroes 6 then!

I guess I'm a bit picky since the combat part of the game is so important to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

eerieBaatezu
02-26-2011, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by Zanosan:
2. Exchange of strikes and First Strike. Heroes IV concept that creatures should normally attack each other at the same time. Sure the retaliation strike can be less than the attack, but both should happen at the same time unless on creature has first strike and the other doesn’t.

I'd like to discuss this one. Simultaneous attacks with less damage on retaliation is interesting solution. It is just too annihilating and imba when every stack acts like first strike on such a small battlefield. I remember battles in H3 where I just casted expert Haste and completely destroyed army with similar power without significant losses.

On the other hand

Originally posted by SwampLord450:
I disagree with the concept of simultaneous retaliation; it removes the whole point of first-striking and thus takes away a valuable tactical element, as well as rewarding poor play for people who leave important stacks out in the open to get pummeled.

I agree with that.

So it would be nice to have big battlefields where you have to feint and where you cannot attack enemy stacks just from initial position.


And no heroes on the battlefield please. The H1/2/3/5 concept is just ok.

But another thing is more armies in one battle. This was thing I always wanted in Heroes. Especially when you couldn't migrate your race to castle with another race in previous games.

Zanosan
03-01-2011, 10:02 AM
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg...300583&mode=previews (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/mightmagicheroesvi/news.html?sid=6300583&mode=previews)

Well today's Gamespot game preview was very detailed.

It gave clues to changes to the battle scape...

Did I read correctly?
No Ballista?
No Tent?
No Ammo Cart?

NOOOOOOooo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Those were great addition to the battle in my opinion, and so was the "War Machine" skills. It gives might or magic heroes so much more abilities like triple balistas with embude implosion spells http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

I hope this is not true in the final release!

GoranXII
03-01-2011, 11:59 AM
Did I read correctly? Yes, you read correctly, that stuff's all done by the hero now.

Thunion
03-01-2011, 12:03 PM
Yes, you read correctly, that stuff's all done by the hero now.
No balista?! thats sad,in homm5 it worked really nicely..still remember orlando on companing with all 3 ballista shots taking down 10-20 of my red angels :O(thats were heavy casulties counting that in total i had only like 40 angels)

Zanosan
03-01-2011, 03:02 PM
I guess 400 years prior to HoMMV, warfare technology had not developed the "Tent, Ballista or Ammocart" yet.

I don't want my Heroes to administer first aid to my army or have to fire ballistas and hold spare arrows for shooters. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

I mean, heroes are supposed to help lead and change the tide of the battle with spells and abilities/ skills. Not to provide basic battle support. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Thunion
03-01-2011, 11:22 PM
So it would be nice to have big battlefields where you have to feint and where you cannot attack enemy stacks just from initial position.
Yeah playng homm5 companing right now.Just cant find a way how to place my army to make sure those damn 26 paladins on 1 turn dont reach me and insta kill any of my stacks or kill half of my Knights (which are for now the only real striking force for me X(

Zanosan
03-13-2011, 03:23 PM
From all the recent news circulating about HoMM6.

One point really got me excited about the new combat system.

I read that some adventure map modifier buildings will appear in combat! Like the rally flag.

Does anyone have confirmation on this?

I wonder if there will be different win conditions for combat as well. I've been play Clash of Heroes lately and I like the creativity I see there and I hope HoMM6 Devs will take note!