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HotelBushranger
01-13-2005, 09:49 AM
I realise that most of you guys here are onliners, but Im unfortunately restricted to offlining, and I've got a bone to pick with the enemy AI.

Ive got a PNG map, with p-40s and a6m3s. Now basically, the Zero is able to go wherever it wants, I have seen it at low speeds, go straight up into air, for a considerable length of time, while I'm following, and are forced to stall. Ive also tried it with the Spitfire Mk 8, with the same response. I've also seem enemy AI superfly in other planes. What is wrong with the AI, and why are they able to manipulate their planes to unnatural lengths?

An irritated Cheers,
HBR

ruxtmp
01-13-2005, 10:58 AM
AI is allowed to do things that you are not. I think to give it some ability to challenge a human the programmers allow the AI to perform unrealistically. Their ability to perform unrealisticly increases as their ability level is increased (ie rookie, veteran, ace) or at least this has been my experience with IL2FB/AEP/PF. It may have gotten better as things were patched but since I play it so often small changes seem invisible for the most part.

VMF223_Anderson
01-13-2005, 11:35 AM
<S!>

I fly about 50% online and 50% off, my experiance is they have a simplified FM, allowing them to exceed G's we cannot meet, and pull maneuvers we cannot fly. Try to get T/O flaps in a Hurricane, the AI can. They also see through mountains and clouds as if with radar, not to mention they can see directly behind themselves, so as you close to firing range, they go into thier shake off maneuvers. Been a pet peave since day 1, at least the wingmen are not colliding as often with each other or other objects. My hope is the engine will be fixed up some in BOB. Offline is a far cry better due to the human element and FM balance, so you'll find more folks flying there.

R_Mutt
01-13-2005, 11:50 AM
Don't even get me started about how AI acts in online COOP missions. uggh! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

HARD_Sarge
01-13-2005, 08:17 PM
HeHe yea bad enough they are not restricted to the same FM rules you are, they also do not have to use the same damage model you do either

do think it is getting better though

used to really tee me off, to blow off half of a AI planes tail and watch it fly away as if nothing happened, then get one bullet hit to my tail and have the Stab locked and have your plane uncontrolable

HARD_Sarge

HotelBushranger
01-13-2005, 09:59 PM
Amen to that mate! Seems it only takes half a dozen bullets to wreck your flight controls. rrrr http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Anyone got a BOB link so I can see what this is gonna be like?

Smidlee
01-14-2005, 06:41 AM
In any game AI is very easy to beat if AI is equal with the human player especially in strategy games. Since AI can't learn and is limited you must give AI some kind of advantage to be any kind of a challenge.
I've read about the other BOB game will have the AI use the same FM as a human player but have doubts this would mean better AI or SP game.

clint-ruin
01-14-2005, 06:57 AM
In terms of the absolute FM parameters - best climb, turn, etc, I think the AI actually follow them pretty closely. There are some effects that just don't seem to be present for them though, most likely done to reduce the amount of memory and CPU time each individual plane takes up. The AI has gotten a lot better since Il2 and FB 1.0 days though - a lot of the silly stuff, it now seems to decide not to do, rather than getting into situations where the holes in it will show through. I've noticed a lot less of the stall-riding, structural limit surpassing, etc style behaviour in PF 3.03 as compared to the original FB release. Can't think of [m]any other games where the AI sticks to as many of the rules as the player has to in PF, that's for sure.

SeminoleX
01-14-2005, 09:18 AM
If you try to "chase down" any undamaged AI plane you are sure to get K.O.ed. No matter what you are flying in or against.

The trick is to make the AI pilot fight on your terms. Be patient. Wait for an opportunity to open up. Exploit it.

SeaFireLIV
01-14-2005, 09:30 AM
clint-ruin1s absolutely right. The AI in the latest FB/PF flies very much to realistic limits and is never `uber` in its abilities, well certainly not that you can`t shoot them down if you use good flying tactics.

In an I16, you`ll notice Jerry planes can`t match you in turns, in the Mig3 series you can match and even outturn AI 109s in vertical manouevers (if I have the inertia), but in horizontal turning much more harder. I remember out climbing a Macchi I think it was, one of those Italian aircraft. I just headed straight up and let that oversized engine pull me. The Macchi flounded around low, I came back down and literally B & Zed him.

Don`t get caught in that `the AI can do things I can`t do trap` or you`ll defeat yourself morally before you`ve even begun!

VMF223_Anderson
01-14-2005, 11:38 AM
<S!>

I agree it's gotten better, but I believe in the hopes of something better still, based on what I have picked up useful from Oleg and 1C on the forums in the past years, the AI code is pretty hard coded into the main IL2 engine. There are still a number of issues to resolve though, I still think the AI FM is a bit too simplified, my opinion, but it is better than all the ones I have played against, and with, in the past 15 years, EAW, Dynamix Series, Red Baron Series, MS CFS Series, etc. When I mentioned Coops, my group rarely uses them as we have 2 fighter and two dive bomber squadrons across the two sides, negates that AI factor.

GT182
01-14-2005, 12:17 PM
As I understand it, the AI in the new patch will lose you in the clouds, unlike before.

I wish they'd not be able to spot you as quickly with your nav lights on, but then again, using nav lights in real life combat is a no no. Turn em on and die. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

EPP-Gibbs
01-14-2005, 01:11 PM
No problems with AI, I think it's pretty good on the whole in that you end up having to use the appropriate tactics according to what you're flying and what they're flying in order to succeed.

They still do silly things like chop their power in a gentle climb allowing you to 'swim' up to them and go "BLAMMO" The Human pilot in a superior climbing aircraft would be going max power max climb at that point to get the height advantage.

HotelBushranger
01-16-2005, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don`t get caught in that `the AI can do things I can`t do trap` or you`ll defeat yourself morally before you`ve even begun! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AI is still pretty dumb. For example, when you get your wingman to cover you, he sits comfortably behind you....and does nothing.

Just then in one of my FMB missions, I was chasing a Zero. Now right about now, I would be seeing tracers going past my window, and a wing would fly off. So, I external-viewed and checked my six, where my wingman was snuggly covering me. So, I proceeded to shoot down the Zero. It climbed vertically straight, and that was when I shot at it, setting it alight. Now IM vertical and I've got tracers going past, and my engine gets knocked out of action. Furiously, I F2'ed and saw the Zero fly past, and my wingman did nothing.

This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME

Not happy

whitetornado_1
01-16-2005, 06:04 AM
I agree too that since the last few patches
the AI flies more realistic.
But the down side now is that they have to be put to ACE in coops now being too easy to shoot down.
Long live the human pilots in the game its much
more fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif