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View Full Version : WWI .50 Cal vs LO-MAC .50 cal and FM.....



XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:07 PM
Just another salute to FW190Fan...

Careful with the desk....


Salute!!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:07 PM
Just another salute to FW190Fan...

Careful with the desk....


Salute!!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:09 PM
LMAO

Yessir, he is a good fellow lol

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zensig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:13 PM
*reaches for nitroglycerin tablets, puts one under tounge*

Ahhhh, there that's better.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 12:52 AM
The 50cal on teh F-15 is way more pwerful that the 50cal on the P-47 in FB. And its gots 8 of them for jeezuz sake.

-----------
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You can provide a smilie with basic food, housing and education for less than the cost of a cup of coffee. Look at how miserable they are, poor, unkempt, and beating the crap out of each other.
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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:36 AM
Is this a joke thread? To my knowledge F-15's don't use .50 cals. They use gatling cannons just like any other modern fighter. 20mm to be specific I believe is pretty standard for US aircraft.

Then again modern .50 cals use depleted uranium rounds which are way more effective than WWII ball rounds.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 04:25 AM
AP, API, APHE? APTI?

There was more than just ball ammo...

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 04:26 AM
The depleted uranium is more powerful taht all of them because its nucular.

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I am now accepting donations to buy the smilies a new home.
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You can provide a smilie with basic food, housing and education for less than the cost of a cup of coffee. Look at how miserable they are, poor, unkempt, and beating the crap out of each other.
http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb14758.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb97414.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb70882.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb24046.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 04:31 AM
US Jets in present day use the Vulcan 20mm gatling cannon. Way more firepower than any 20mm that a World War II plane was capable of mounting...just by the sheer fire rate would put it ahead of anything else.

WWI aircraft didn't use .50 cals did they? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Depleted Uranium has little to do with nuclear weapons. Uranium is a good armor piercer because of its weight and density.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 04:37 AM
Those types a a step up from ball ammo. Give recognition where it is due...

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 04:43 AM
i sure never saw any depleated uranium .50 cal rounds!!!! where did ya get that info? ...D.U is used as best i know only in tank main gun sabot rounds and gau-8 ammo

U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 05:09 AM
They're AP rounds and if you never saw any I ask if you ever saw combat? My friend recently left the Army and as a hummvee driver in mechanized infantry he had a lot of experience with .50 cals, TOW's, whatever they designate the automatic grenade launcher as and occasionally they'd end up with a SAW in place of the .50

Old style AP rounds consist of a standard FMJ round with a steel core. Thats standard for most all WWII AP rounds, and modern small arms rounds. It's still in use, but they do have DU rounds as well.

It's about the only round that will reliably penetrate the armor on transport, and light armored vehicles. Of course it's not super reliable but it's #1 when it comes to .50 cal ammo.

I also believe the DU rounds are constructed much like the standard AP rounds. They're not tipped like tank rounds or cannon rounds.

Of course when comparing even the same caliber's weapon effectiveness it gets really complicated. Such as barrel length the round itself bullet weight, type of powder used etc.

For example I have an 8mm Mauser which in aircraft was called a 9mm as it's actually 8.7mm I believe. IT's a cannon and puts a .30-06 to shame. Yet WWII surplus ammo has nowhere near the punch of modern manufactured S&B. It's not due to it's age either as properly stored ammo last a long long time. 50 years before it even starts to degrade and at a point older ammunition such as WWI ammunition becomes volitile.

Gun powder simply has evolved since WWII. So have primers, casing materials, bullet manufacturing etc.

If you went back in time and compared a modern .50 call ball round to a then new WWII .50 cal ball round you would see a big difference.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 06:37 AM
Every U.S. .50 cal shot at night has depleted uranium because thats what they use for the tracers. ;-)

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 07:54 AM
They use uranium simply because it's more dense and heavy than any other usable metal, thus giving a stronger kinetic impact punch. It's a question of inertia.

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

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- Dux Corvan -



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XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:18 AM
Just to clear things up a bit: Yes, some .50 cal ammo is made with depleted uranium. And no: Of course it's not effective because it's nuclear - that's ridiculous. It's effective because of its weight and density as mentioned by... someone else.

cheers/slush

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You can't handle the truth!
Col. Jessep

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:33 AM
VW-IceFire wrote:
- US Jets in present day use the Vulcan 20mm gatling
- cannon. Way more firepower than any 20mm that a
- World War II plane was capable of mounting...just by
- the sheer fire rate would put it ahead of anything
- else.
-

The fire rate on the M61 is impressive, but it needs time to spool up (which takes about a second) to reach that impressive fire rate. Usually cannon bursts form fighters are less than one second of fire, therefore I would rather recommend the Mauser BK27 (installed e.g. in the Tornado, EF 2000, Gripen) since it puts more lead into in the first second of fire - not necessarily more bullets, but due to them being 27mm they are a bit heavier and more powerful than the 20mm of the Vulcan.

<p align="center">http://hometown.aol.de/Deathbrng/262sig.jpg</p><p align="center">No guns, no glory!'</p><p align="center">That is why I recommend 4 x 30mm MK108 pills!</p><p align="center">HL Nick = BLUE_Schnitter</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 09:42 AM
Message Edited on 09/17/03 01:44AM by tenmmike

Message Edited on 09/17/03 01:46AM by tenmmike

Message Edited on 09/17/0304:19PM by tenmmike

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:00 AM
Hopperfly22 wrote:


Old style AP rounds consist of a standard FMJ round
- with a steel core. Thats standard for most all WWII
- AP rounds,

I "think" they have a tungston(sp?) tip but I may be wrong on this one.


It's about the only round that will reliably
- penetrate the armor on transport, and light armored
- vehicles. Of course it's not super reliable but
- it's #1 when it comes to .50 cal ammo.

I would say most.50 cal rounds will defeat light armour even without AP

I also believe the DU rounds are constructed much
- like the standard AP rounds. They're not tipped
- like tank rounds or cannon rounds

Tanks firing DU use a sabot it is all made of DU not tiped

Of course when comparing even the same caliber's
- weapon effectiveness it gets really complicated.
- Such as barrel length the round itself bullet
- weight, type of powder used etc.


Well if it's the same Cal then all that matters is it's weight and velocity assuming similar bullet construction.The powder or barrel length is not important.

- It's not due to it's age either
- as properly stored ammo last a long long time. 50
- years before it even starts to degrade and at a
- point older ammunition such as WWI ammunition
- becomes volitile.

After some time the neck of the case will become britlle and split when fired making the rifle jam.I anneal all my cases after 4-5 uses to avoid this.


If you went back in time and compared a modern .50
- call ball round to a then new WWII .50 cal ball
- round you would see a big difference.
-

I dont think the differance is that great to be honest until you get into the more exotic rounds.




No1RAAF_Pourshot


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Ride it like ya stole it.

Message Edited on 09/17/0308:02PM by pourshot

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 10:07 AM
I thought they used fosphorous (sp?) in tracers? As WWI MG's used tracers and they had no depleted uranium then.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:18 PM
marty67 wrote:
- Every U.S. .50 cal shot at night has depleted
- uranium because thats what they use for the tracers.
- ;-)
-
-

Tracers ammunition uses a coating of strontium nitrate, strontium peroxide, barium peroxide, lead peroxide, magnesium powder, calcium resinate, and PVC for the tracer compound and barium peroxide, magnesium, antimony trisulfide, and graphite in the ignition compound.

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:30 PM
ROFLOL !!

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Thanks for that thread ! /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:58 PM
Der_Schnitter_t wrote:
- The fire rate on the M61 is impressive, but it needs
- time to spool up (which takes about a second) to
- reach that impressive fire rate. Usually cannon
- bursts form fighters are less than one second of
- fire, therefore I would rather recommend the Mauser
- BK27 (installed e.g. in the Tornado, EF 2000,
- Gripen) since it puts more lead into in the first
- second of fire - not necessarily more bullets, but
- due to them being 27mm they are a bit heavier and
- more powerful than the 20mm of the Vulcan.

Its definately a good point. I remember reading that one of the pluses of the EF2000 over the F/A-22 was the gun being capable of reaching maximum RPM in a much shorter time than the Vulcan. As it stands, I doubt the US is much interested in improving the Vulcan cannon. Its on virtually every fighter and the spare parts lying around are probably the biggest draw for using the same weapon.

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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill