PDA

View Full Version : Just saw Tuskegee Airmen (movie, then pbs special)



SithSpeeder
07-19-2006, 10:28 PM
...and really enjoyed them both. My family was also enraptured in the telling of their story.

It was especially neat to see them back-to-back as a way to really get a full perspective.

One thing that I found interesting in the PBS documentary was when one of the Tuskegee Airman got in his Mercedes to drive to the reunion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

I got both from the library on DVD.

* _54th_Speeder *

Bearcat99
07-20-2006, 06:39 AM
What was so interesting about that? Most of the ones I know drive Mercedes, Lexus, Cadillacs etc... keep in mind that these men were chemists, businessmen, carreer officers, engineers, pilots, doctors, lawyers some were politicians.... What.. you were expecting them to be driving 4 year old Buicks? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Pig_Mac
07-20-2006, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
What was so interesting about that? Most of the ones I know drive Mercedes, Lexus, Cadillacs etc... keep in mind that these men were chemists, businessmen, carreer officers, engineers, pilots, doctors, lawyers some were politicians.... What.. you were expecting them to be driving 4 year old Buicks? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

well.. mercedes ain't the most american of cars. I don't think he ment it the way you seem to have gotten it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SithSpeeder
07-20-2006, 07:25 AM
I don't think he ment it the way you seem to have gotten it

...what he said, Bear. I have the utmost respect for most veterans (both sides) of the conflict.

The reason I made my comment was that they were fighting the "Jerries"/Germans and "sending them to he||" (to quote from the movie) or losing close friends to the Luftwaffe and years later came to accept driving a German automobile. Whereas in counterpoint, my next door neighbor who was a radioman in B-29's over Japan (and later Korea) would NEVER drive a Japanese car or even think about visiting Japan. Why? Because his wife's brothers who fought in WW2 were tortured and killed by the Japanese.

Now I'm not saying it's right to condemn a group of people or companies from a country 60 years postwar. As a matter of fact, I find my neighbor's reaction interesting as well (and much less forgiving/accepting). Actually, their prejudice bugs me a bit, but that was a different time and place then from what I grew up in and I accept the fact that that is who they are. They fought and died in a time that is difficult to imagine.

I hope I'm making better sense. I applaud that airman's sense of character to NOT hold grudges against his "former enemies" (who are not his enemies anymore--the war is OVER).

* _54th_Speeder *

JG53Frankyboy
07-20-2006, 07:52 AM
flying Mustangs , driving Mercedes - well, that guy knews what is good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
07-20-2006, 08:01 AM
Yeah I see your point.... but my point is..... a Benz is a good car... these guys got over the war a while ago... it's guys like us who still have issues..LOL..

Im curious.. would your neighbor drive a VW?

Remember that shot of Saburo Sakai and one of the guys he shot down shaking hands... the guy was pretty messed up too.. he lived to fly again.. but they were trying to kill each other.. same thing with Rall and some of the bomber pilots....

Id have a Benz if I could afford it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

SithSpeeder
07-20-2006, 08:35 AM
Im curious.. would your neighbor drive a VW?
I never asked him or his wife, but they were awful proud of their new Lincoln (not sure of the model--big, luxury, American car). When I got my old BMW (it looks pretty new, even though it's 11 years old), they didn't say a WORD. Note that in their mind, it was still probably a step up as I drove an old Nissan Maxima before that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

So as Frankyboy says, it's good to fly (virtual) Mustangs and drive a good car http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/ijhutch/BMWprofile.JPG

And to GET BACK ON TOPIC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif , if you haven't seen the movie (with Lawrence Fishburne) or the PBS special, check it out! (I'm enjoying this thread, actually).

* _54th_Speeder *

Jasko76
07-20-2006, 12:28 PM
Mercedes, Audi and Lexus suck! BMW rules the world!

shotdownski
07-20-2006, 01:37 PM
A lesson for the "Buy American" crowd. Don't get all mushy about supporting "your country's" corporations. The big multinational firms have no conscience and no morality; they exist solely to maximize shareholder profit. Pain and suffering matter not.


"Ford and GM Scrutinized for Alleged Nazi Collaboration"

Some choice excerpts:

"General Motors was far more important to the Nazi war machine than Switzerland," said Bradford Snell, who has spent two decades researching a history of the world's largest automaker. "Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM."

"The relationship of Ford and GM to the Nazi regime goes back to the 1920s and 1930s, when the American car companies competed against each other for access to the lucrative German market. Hitler was an admirer of American mass production techniques and an avid reader of the antisemitic tracts penned by Henry Ford. "I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration," Hitler told a Detroit News reporter two years before becoming the German chancellor in 1933, explaining why he kept a life-size portrait of the American automaker next to his desk."

"Documents show that the parent companies followed a conscious strategy of continuing to do business with the Nazi regime, rather than divest themselves of their German assets. Less than three weeks after the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia in March 1939, GM Chairman Alfred P. Sloan defended this strategy as sound business practice, given the fact that the company's German operations were "highly profitable.""

"The internal politics of Nazi Germany "should not be considered the business of the management of General Motors," Sloan explained in a letter to a concerned shareholder dated April 6, 1939. "We must conduct ourselves [in Germany] as a German organization. . . . We have no right to shut down the plant.""

Read the whole article at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm

Aaron_GT
07-20-2006, 01:40 PM
Bearcat,

As sort of the resident Red Tail expert, how historically accurate is the first Hollywood film (to distinguish from the planned remake)? It's a fantastic story, and what I have read of the real history seems fantastic too, I just wondered how well the film and the facts correspond.

SithSpeeder
07-20-2006, 01:49 PM
Not to speak for Bearcat, but I think I can quote him from saying "about 20% historically accurate". But I think BC would agree with me that the gist of the Hollywood story is quite correct (close to 100%). The Hollywood spin was to combine many different happenings to many different individuals and boil it down to about 8-10 guys that you follow from the start of the war to the finish. So they took some license to make the story more compelling because in less than two hours, it's easier to get to know a handful of characters and their backgrounds than say the entire first graduating class.

There were inaccuracies as far as technical details (like the one guy was reading a book in 1941 that hadn't even been published yet, or Tuskegee Airmen flying P-51D's on arrival in North Africa--they really flew P-40s and some P-47s, then got P-51Bs). But to me, that is "overlookable". Hollywood didn't stretch the story around these technical inaccuracies, just probably found it easier to find P-51Ds, etc.

* _54th_Speeder *

waffen-79
07-20-2006, 01:50 PM
Yeah, AWESOME movie, especially the part when they put the guncamera clip (the one of the ship getting whacked) everybody felt that victory as a unit

JG53Frankyboy
07-20-2006, 02:56 PM
the most touchable moment in that movie was the scene when the had this emergency landing atthe road beside the black prisoners.
and how proud these were when the saw that these pilots were also black !
and the dumb faces of the guards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(sorry for any possible political incorrect used words, im no native english speaker)

anf btw, i had no proplem to buy this american steal as a german http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/Harley-rechts.jpg

Bearcat99
07-20-2006, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Bearcat,
As sort of the resident Red Tail expert, how historically accurate is the first Hollywood film (to distinguish from the planned remake)? It's a fantastic story, and what I have read of the real history seems fantastic too, I just wondered how well the film and the facts correspond.


Originally posted by SithSpeeder:
Not to speak for Bearcat, but I think I can quote him from saying "about 20% historically accurate". But I think BC would agree with me that the gist of the Hollywood story is quite correct (close to 100%). The Hollywood spin was to combine many different happenings to many different individuals and boil it down to about 8-10 guys that you follow from the start of the war to the finish. So they took some license to make the story more compelling because in less than two hours, it's easier to get to know a handful of characters and their backgrounds than say the entire first graduating class.

There were inaccuracies as far as technical details (like the one guy was reading a book in 1941 that hadn't even been published yet, or Tuskegee Airmen flying P-51D's on arrival in North Africa--they really flew P-40s and some P-47s, then got P-51Bs). But to me, that is "overlookable". Hollywood didn't stretch the story around these technical inaccuracies, just probably found it easier to find P-51Ds, etc.
* _54th_Speeder *

Yes basically what Speeder said... actually the only thing that they all to a man said was totally untrue... was the scene where the pilot who got canned for buzzing the field commited suicide.... although there was a pilot who got canned for buzzing the field, he didnt commit suicide... he wanted to live and he also knew that something like that would have ended the program. When they first got to NA they actually flew P-39s for a short while too. They flew P-40s with the 33rd under Momyer. The H.B.O. movie was an amalgam of different people. I thought the casting was so so.... Andre Braugher as Ben Davis.... they would have been better off with Giancarlo Esposito... The movie was partly the story of this man:

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/Duchess.jpg

The character played by Fishburn was him basically. He was from Ottumwa Iowa... flew number 10... and had 100th F.S. markings on his plane. Also the first Redtail planes they flew were P-47s.... and they only flew them for @ 2 months.. but it was during that time that Pruitt & Pierson sank the destroyer with the 8 .50s of thier jugs and a lucky shot in the magazine.

Enforcer572005
07-20-2006, 08:46 PM
I wasnt impressed wiht the production values, and i thought that those guys deserved a better telling of the story. I knew the suicide bit was pure fiction and wondered why they would have such silly nonsense in that film. I also wondered how hard it would be to get a few P40s for the scenes in africa.

Stuff like that just bugs blazes outta me. they have the same planes but refer to them as "new mustangs". I just hope htey do a better story about them, and get an actor who can do a better portrayal of Gen Davis. He and his guys deserve a much better movie than that, though I was glad that someone finally put it to film.

now i wonder if theyll ever do one about the armored regiment that Patton deployed with so much success (blast I cant think of the outfit).

Well ill stop griping now. I just wanna better done production than that. they should let Me produce it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif. (id have done better).

JadehawkII
07-20-2006, 09:01 PM
The guys doin what they did best...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Onyxwing2004USA/Mustang_Escort_22b.jpg

Rjel
07-20-2006, 09:18 PM
Bearcat,

Can you recommend any books on the 99th? And do you know if the USAAF/USAF ever did research studies on the whys and hows for the success of this group?

Worf101
07-20-2006, 10:31 PM
I like the movie, heck, I own it. But the thing that bugs me most about the film is the stilted language. I mean the:

"Die you jerry bastard"

stuff was/is lame. When I first was shot at in uniform all we uttered was expletives that would melt a sceen. I always hated those quips not only in this movie but in all WWII movies. Spouting one liners before you pull the trigger. Unnh can't stand it.

Da Worfster

LStarosta
07-20-2006, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
What.. you were expecting them to be driving 4 year old Buicks? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You jest, yes?

I wish I had a 4 year old Buick.