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View Full Version : Grumman F7F Tigercat...Another forgotten twin?



XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:27 PM
Another A/C that was not allowed a fair crack of the whip? Would be nice to see this bird in FB or its successor.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/grumman_f7f2a.jpg?0.6551568253806637
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/1599L.jpg?0.40034833553694177
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/f7f_groun.jpg?0.6156268409201683
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/d01_19_09.jpg?0.1605561125143833

In 1938 the U.S. Navy contracted for the development of a prototype twin-engined carrier-based fighter, designated the XF5-1. While the prototype did not enter production, its evolution and testing gave Grumman valuable experience in this type. In early 1941 Grumman began work on a new twin-engined Navy fighter, designed to have high performance and unprecedented firepower. A contract was awarded in June 1941, with the first flight taking place in December 1943. The new aircraft, known as the F7F Tigercat, featured foldable wings and tricycle landing gear, with four 20mm cannons and four .050 inch machine guns providing an offensive punch. In addition, it could carry either a pair of 1000 pound bombs or a single torpedo. Grumman received a contract for 500 Tigercats, which were to be supplied to the U.S. Marines to provide close-air support for their operations. Unfortunately the production Tigercats materialized too late to see operational service with the USMC before the end of the war. 288 F7Fs (including 64 night fighter versions) were built before the cancellation of remaining orders. Some Marine squadrons continued to use the Tigercat in the postwar years, but they were eventually replaced by jet-powered successors.


<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/QSig02.jpg?0.9931269228593957

'Whirlwind Whiner'
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:27 PM
Another A/C that was not allowed a fair crack of the whip? Would be nice to see this bird in FB or its successor.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/grumman_f7f2a.jpg?0.6551568253806637
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/1599L.jpg?0.40034833553694177
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/f7f_groun.jpg?0.6156268409201683
http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/TIGERCAT/d01_19_09.jpg?0.1605561125143833

In 1938 the U.S. Navy contracted for the development of a prototype twin-engined carrier-based fighter, designated the XF5-1. While the prototype did not enter production, its evolution and testing gave Grumman valuable experience in this type. In early 1941 Grumman began work on a new twin-engined Navy fighter, designed to have high performance and unprecedented firepower. A contract was awarded in June 1941, with the first flight taking place in December 1943. The new aircraft, known as the F7F Tigercat, featured foldable wings and tricycle landing gear, with four 20mm cannons and four .050 inch machine guns providing an offensive punch. In addition, it could carry either a pair of 1000 pound bombs or a single torpedo. Grumman received a contract for 500 Tigercats, which were to be supplied to the U.S. Marines to provide close-air support for their operations. Unfortunately the production Tigercats materialized too late to see operational service with the USMC before the end of the war. 288 F7Fs (including 64 night fighter versions) were built before the cancellation of remaining orders. Some Marine squadrons continued to use the Tigercat in the postwar years, but they were eventually replaced by jet-powered successors.


<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/QSig02.jpg?0.9931269228593957

'Whirlwind Whiner'
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:35 PM
But didn't this plane only fly in the pacific air campaigns?

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:38 PM
Kinda,but so did the Zero....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:52 PM
Until just resently('90s???) the F7F was used as a 'water' bomber fighting forest fires.



http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:58 PM
That was a great twin, with a phenominal rate of climb. I'd love to see that modelled, but it will never happen.

BTW, F7Fs arrived on Okinawa on the last day of the war.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:58 PM
Twin-engined fighter with four cannon? It'll never catch on, dear boy, never! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/110903-Newsig.jpg.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:03 PM
Don't forget the four machine guns too.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:08 PM
Ahh, the Tigercat. What a fabulous plane!

Liege-Killer

http://home.austin.rr.com/jasandtrace/images/archie1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:10 PM
Aw man, now I gotta wipe the drool off my keyboard! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Gotta love those Grummans! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:19 PM
Nice little read:

http://www.airzoo.org/f7f.htm



<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/QSig02.jpg?0.9931269228593957

'Whirlwind Whiner'
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:21 PM
You going to have flood of drool DDT/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatTaxyingWideAngle.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatFacingCrowd4oClock.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatTakingOff.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatBanking20DegreesLeft1oClock.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatLanding1030.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatTaxyingAfterLanding.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatBeingBackedIntoHangar.jpg


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg

And a 3 view

http://www.biic.de/aviation-museum/planes/country/usa/images/125.gif


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

Message Edited on 09/11/0306:27PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:25 PM
That one too./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/hornet/horncov.jpg




"......und mein Herz steigt wie ein Falke in die Lüfte!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura

http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/image/ejgrost.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:26 PM
Look what came before!

http://www.highgallery.com/military-aircraft-xf5f.html

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/QSig02.jpg?0.9931269228593957

'Whirlwind Whiner'
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:30 PM
KIMURA wrote:
- That one too

Yippie, a Hornet ! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig.jpg (http://www.virtual-jabog32.de)

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig2.jpg (http://www.jg68.de.vu)

When once you have tasted flight,
you will always walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward;
to where you have been
and to where you always want to return.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:35 PM
Sweet pics Milo. And I even agreed with something you said in another thread the ohter day. What the hell is happening? lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was never much on twin engines, and the F6F-5 is my fave prop, but, this is still a Grumman. Rock on! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:41 PM
KIMURA

The twin-engined, single-seat fighter. A theme that began with the Whirlwind and finished with the Hornet - the fastest one of all. Lol.

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/QSig02.jpg?0.9931269228593957

'Whirlwind Whiner'
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:43 PM
GB seems to be a weird country...their Mosquitos are taller than their Hornets /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig.jpg (http://www.virtual-jabog32.de)

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig2.jpg (http://www.jg68.de.vu)

When once you have tasted flight,
you will always walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward;
to where you have been
and to where you always want to return.


Message Edited on 09/11/0310:44PM by Bremspropeller

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:47 PM
Hats off to the British!



<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/110903-crikey!sml.jpg

SECUDUS wrote:
- KIMURA
-
- The twin-engined, single-seat fighter. A theme that
- began with the Whirlwind and finished with the
- Hornet - the fastest one of all. Lol.



<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/110903-Newsig.jpg.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:54 PM
SECUDUS wrote:
- KIMURA
-
- The twin-engined, single-seat fighter. A theme that
- began with the Whirlwind and finished with the
- Hornet - the fastest one of all.

..........and the most beautiful...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



"......und mein Herz steigt wie ein Falke in die Lüfte!"

EJGr.Ost Kimura

http://www.jagdgruppe-ost.de/image/ejgrost.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:57 PM
gee, that looks just like the FW-187 Falke and TA-154 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh well, it would be cool!

EDIT: I mean the F7F looks like a copy, not the whirlwind

Message Edited on 09/11/0311:27PM by VOL_Jon

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:01 AM
Nice pics Milo. What camera and res did you use?

http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:27 AM
Thunderbolt56 wrote:
- Nice pics Milo. What camera and res did you use?
-

I wish./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Check the pic properties to see where they came from.

@ DDT Me must be getting mellow in old age./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

Message Edited on 09/11/0307:32PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:28 AM
KIMURA

And the most beautiful...Hmmm, possibly? But twin-engined fighters are the thoroughbreds of the sky...And as everybody knows, are always beautiful.

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/QSig02.jpg?0.9931269228593957

'Whirlwind Whiner'
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:54 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:

- gee, that looks just like the FW-187 Falke and
- TA-154 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Golly, it must be a copy of those German designs.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 01:29 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- gee, that looks just like the FW-187 Falke and
- TA-154 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
- Oh well, it would be cool!
-
- EDIT: I mean the F7F looks like a copy, not the
- whirlwind
-
- Message Edited on 09/11/03 11:27PM by VOL_Jon

Wha?... How do they look alike, other than they were single seat twins with shoulder mounted wings?

It's sort of like saying the 109 and Mustang are clones. there's almost no similarity.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 02:35 AM
Take a closer look at the F7F's lines and the TA-154's lines.

Narrow body, two seats, single center tailfin, high mounted wings, engines in pods under the wings.

Just go compare the photo's!

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 02:52 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- Take a closer look at the F7F's lines and the
- TA-154's lines.
-
- Narrow body, two seats, single center tailfin, high
- mounted wings, engines in pods under the wings.
-
- Just go compare the photo's!
-
-

Maybe German spies stole the design of the F7F, since the design of the F7F began in mid 1941 and the the design of the Ta-154 began in late 1942.

But its probably just a coincidence, since both flew in 1943. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 02:52 AM
Who copied who?

Me thinks you should find out when the designing of the 2 a/c (F7F/Ta154) began./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh and the F7F was originally a single seater while a later design for the Ta154 lost one of its two seats.

VOL_Jon wrote:
- Take a closer look at the F7F's lines and the
- TA-154's lines.
-
- Narrow body, two seats, single center tailfin, high
- mounted wings, engines in pods under the wings.
-
- Just go compare the photo's!
-
-



http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

Message Edited on 09/11/0309:56PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 02:55 AM
All i'm saying is those two look VERY similar.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 02:59 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- gee, that looks just like the FW-187 Falke and
- TA-154 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Oh well, it would be cool!
-
- EDIT: I mean the F7F looks like a copy, not the
- whirlwind
-
-

Why did you say it looks like a copy of the Ta154?


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:01 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- All i'm saying is those two look VERY similar.
-
-

Sorry, too many German fan-boys around here automatically assume all good designs originated with the Germans.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:14 AM
And too many German haters assume that all their stuff sucked too.... ::cough::Chimp::cough:: /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:19 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- Kinda,but so did the Zero....

LOL! That F7F would be nice... seen one fly out at Chino, a very cool aircraft! The NAVY's P38 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:36 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
- VOL_Jon wrote:
-- All i'm saying is those two look VERY similar.
--
--
-
- Sorry, too many German fan-boys around here
- automatically assume all good designs originated
- with the Germans.
-
- Regards,
-
- SkyChimp

Did I say I thought was from a german designer?

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:38 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:

- Did I say I thought was from a german designer?


You said "copy." What's that imply? I said I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your comment.



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:28 AM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- All i'm saying is those two look VERY similar.
-
-

Not really, the Ta-154 has a much narrower, and longer wing than the F7F with slight sweepback on the leading edge. The F7F has the classic Grumman wing, with the wide wing, straight leading edge, abruptly squared off wing tips, and taper on the trailing edge. Even the fuselage is signature Grumman, using a compound ovaloid cross section, and built in bands. It's narrowness is primaly a result of not needing to have a fuselage as wide as the engine diameter.

If you take a look, the Ta-154 is actually a rather wide aircraft, following more of the Mosquito lines, than the F7F's.

Here is a link to a line drawing of it: http://www.cropp.demon.co.uk/FW/MT154P.HTM

They really aren't that much alike.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:46 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
"Until just resently('90s???) the F7F was used as a
'water' bomber fighting forest fires."


I'm pretty sure that the US Forest Service, and the Cal Dept of Forestry stopped using them in the late seventies, much to the disappointment of those that flew them. They carried around 800 gal of ******ant, and got to the fire pretty quick. Their problem was that they were getting just too expensive to maintain due to their scarcity. They were replaced by another Grumman, the S2F Tracker. Smaller engines (R1820's instead of the R2800's), and slower to be sure, but it carries the same load. Now, those S2F's are getting turbine engines, and a bigger tank.


"Those people in aviation, who think they know it all, are particularly annoying to those of us who really do" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:49 PM
I have fond memories of these twins:

<img src=http://www.123posters.com/images/f-mka1.jpg>



<img src=http://www.johnsonsmith.com/images/p1039.jpg>

Eeeeeeeeeee.......