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View Full Version : Request for 4.08 - A.I. improvement



JacksonsGhost
01-06-2007, 10:33 AM
If it's not too late I'd like to put up my hand for some A.I. improvement in version 4.08. Personally, I would much rather see effort put into having the current aircraft flying as they should, than to add more aircraft types or versions.

It would be so good to have A.I. that doesn't cruise into mountains. It's heartbreaking to survive a shot up belly landing after a hard fought successful campaign mission over Buna, only to see your A.I. buddies (including undamaged ones) fly one after the other into the Owen Stanley Ranges!! It seems to me from this and many other instances that the terrain avoidance function in the A.I. program simply cuts in too late to do the job in many cases. Even if it was a damaged aircraft that was limited to 12,000 feet or so it should not cruise into mountains at 10,000 feet! For a sim that is so good in other areas this is very frustrating. My "Aces of the Pacific" sim in 1992 had smarter A.I. pilots than that!

Also the Holy Grail to me is still a patch for exhaust flare or glow instead of nav lights for night missions, or at the least, A.I. that is smart enough to turn their lights off, and keep them off, when engaged by enemy aircraft. Failing that, an option to manually deselect nav lights in a mission so we can choose to hunt blackened targets by moonlight alone if we want to.

Too much to ask maybe, and nothing that hasn't been suggested before, but there it is...my wishlist!

VW-IceFire
01-06-2007, 12:07 PM
Lights off while flying around would be gold.

As for crashing into mountains...thats a problem with the way the mission is setup. If the waypoint is "inside" the mountain the AI tries to do as its told and corrects at the last second...usually with bad results.

It'd be like me telling you to fly a straight line and head for that mountain over there. Oh yeah and you should fly it at 2000m....what about the mountain...oh don't worry about that. If the mission was done properly they wouldn't crash into the Owen Stanley. Thats not really an AI issue other than they blindly do what they are told.

I'm not sure how much else you can do with the AI. Maybe add some more routines and give them a greater variety of possible maneuvers but I'm not sure how much smarter they can be until a major revolution comes about in how AI is done.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Marcel_Albert
01-06-2007, 01:58 PM
It would be good if they could give their position on the map when they ask for help .

A new command could be made on the radio to ask them to give us their grid coordinates , it could be written like the voice messages .

Perhaps it's too much work , i'd also like the AI in ace and veteran to respect more the law of physics cause it's often really annoying that they override by such a huge margin the limits of their planes , mainly during the climbs and dives .<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Frequent_Flyer
01-06-2007, 02:28 PM
This may apply to AI and damage model improvements. After being hit ang engulfed in flames the aircraft continues to hunt and attack. Clearly he should have bailed from fear of being incinerated and/or blown to bits.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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SeaFireLIV
01-06-2007, 02:34 PM
I`m all for constantly improving AI.

AI is good at flying close to ground and recovering in combat so it would be nice to see Ai be able to avoid hiting mountains sides unless it makes a `human` error (driven into it by combat in manouever kill). On a normal cruise I see no reason why AI should be able to avoid Mountains no matter what it`s Mission set up. Also Mission setup applies only to mission builders, but in DGen the Player doesn`t want to have to do that for every mountain area. He wants to just fly with his AI m8s and not watch the `immersion` get blown by `blind` AI flying into obvious mountain sides.

Ai should by default be able to avoid any outcrop returning to waypoint once avoided.

JacksonsGhost
01-06-2007, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
AI is good at flying close to ground and recovering in combat so it would be nice to see Ai be able to avoid hiting mountains sides unless it makes a `human` error (driven into it by combat in manouever kill). On a normal cruise I see no reason why AI should be able to avoid Mountains no matter what it`s Mission set up. Also Mission setup applies only to mission builders, but in DGen the Player doesn`t want to have to do that for every mountain area. He wants to just fly with his AI m8s and not watch the `immersion` get blown by `blind` AI flying into obvious mountain sides.

Ai should by default be able to avoid any outcrop returning to waypoint once avoided.

That's exactly what I'm talking about Seafire. The problem applies in official campaign missions as well as custom missions, and it shouldn't be a problem in either.

VW-IceFire
01-06-2007, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I`m all for constantly improving AI.

AI is good at flying close to ground and recovering in combat so it would be nice to see Ai be able to avoid hiting mountains sides unless it makes a `human` error (driven into it by combat in manouever kill). On a normal cruise I see no reason why AI should be able to avoid Mountains no matter what it`s Mission set up. Also Mission setup applies only to mission builders, but in DGen the Player doesn`t want to have to do that for every mountain area. He wants to just fly with his AI m8s and not watch the `immersion` get blown by `blind` AI flying into obvious mountain sides.

Ai should by default be able to avoid any outcrop returning to waypoint once avoided.
Probably the DGEN scenario should then be improved to resolve the problem. The one that everyone talks about with the New Guinea scenario has a setup in the DGEN for waypoint altitude that doesn't work given the geography of the area. The AI could be better at it but when you build the mission properly (or if the DGEN campaign is setup properly) then this isn't an issue.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JacksonsGhost
01-07-2007, 07:12 AM
[\QUOTE]
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The AI could be better at it but when you build the mission properly (or if the DGEN campaign is setup properly) then this isn't an issue.[/QUOTE]

I realise this, but I would prefer that the AI was set up properly so that mission builders didn't have to consider it as an issue. Mission builders shouldn't have to restrict their options due to slack AI. Of course we do anyway, coz the AI is never perfect, but it doesn't hurt to identify the areas most in need of improvement to minimise the pain! As for the case of poor DGEN mission designs, that should definitely be a patch issue.

XyZspineZyX
01-07-2007, 07:17 AM
hate to say this but...

They aren't just putting together notes and suggestions for 4.08 now. Most of what goes into 4.08 was made a while ago. The dev team is not doing much but tying up loose ends for this sim, and working BoB full time

I don't want to be the killjoy here, but you're WAAAYYYY late to ask for this stuff in 4.08 in my opinion. They simply aren't really working on this sim anymore. 4.08 is the 'catch all' in which we might get a few surprises, but guess what: it's reported to be planes and maps already made and waiting, not bug or AI fixes for things just released. I'm sorry, but this is the reality. Persoanlly I'm shocked they even spent time on 4.071<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JacksonsGhost
01-07-2007, 07:31 AM
You're probably totally right BBB, but not being a permanent resident here, I only just found out there was a 4.08 on the way. I don't pretend to know what the dev team is thinking, though I read a lot of speculation, including people who were certain there wouldn't be a free patch after 4.04! All I know is if you want something it sometimes pays to ask for it, and if you expect nothing to come of it you can only be pleasantly surprised if it does. (Now I sound like Forrest Gump!) And yes, I am surprised the patches are still coming. Maybe my issues will be addressed in 4.10! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DKoor
01-07-2007, 07:36 AM
I share the opinion that they wont make some radical changes (although I'd love them to).
Make Ai to obey the rules set for humans... is the most important one IMO, even if they have to cheat that should be some minor stuff not huge like it is now.

Also quite huge problem exists with Singapore Hurricane campaign (much more than so popular New Guinea prob). On about 2/3 missions player barely has fuel to reach the target area... trip home is out of question... kamikaze style http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif .<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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SeaFireLIV
01-07-2007, 07:46 AM
All I know is if you want something it sometimes pays to ask for it, and if you expect nothing to come of it you can only be pleasantly surprised if it does.

EXACTLY, my friend.

Do NOT be put off by people who try to discourage you with multiple excuses. Make you point heard and something might get NOTICED and FIXED. STILL ask anyway. It is a valid point. AI should be able to avoid hills/mountains on normal cruise by default.

With all respect, these guys are not Devs, they don`t have a secret view into what Oleg`s doing (even with the focus on BOB) and Oleg has many times sprung nice surprises without telling us.


I`ve seen it happen many times and at least once it happened for me when everyone else was doing their level best to discourage me.

Cheerrs, Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


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JamesBlonde888
01-07-2007, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by JacksonsGhost:
. My "Aces of the Pacific" sim in 1992 had smarter A.I. pilots than that!


Wow, I had that one too and Aces Over Europe and the original Red Baron. Good to meet another phanatic.

I totally agree with your post. But the long flight back from Buna does get more interesting with the occasional B-25 slamming into a mountain on the way. I have noticed that the Bettys usually make it over on the way back unless they are heavily damaged.

There really is a huge inconsistancy between freindly and enemy AI which bugs me no end.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Shakthamac
01-08-2007, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by JacksonsGhost:
If it's not too late I'd like to put up my hand for some A.I. improvement in version 4.08. Personally, I would much rather see effort put into having the current aircraft flying as they should, than to add more aircraft types or versions.

It would be so good to have A.I. that doesn't cruise into mountains. It's heartbreaking to survive a shot up belly landing after a hard fought successful campaign mission over Buna, only to see your A.I. buddies (including undamaged ones) fly one after the other into the Owen Stanley Ranges!! It seems to me from this and many other instances that the terrain avoidance function in the A.I. program simply cuts in too late to do the job in many cases. Even if it was a damaged aircraft that was limited to 12,000 feet or so it should not cruise into mountains at 10,000 feet! For a sim that is so good in other areas this is very frustrating. My "Aces of the Pacific" sim in 1992 had smarter A.I. pilots than that!

Also the Holy Grail to me is still a patch for exhaust flare or glow instead of nav lights for night missions, or at the least, A.I. that is smart enough to turn their lights off, and keep them off, when engaged by enemy aircraft. Failing that, an option to manually deselect nav lights in a mission so we can choose to hunt blackened targets by moonlight alone if we want to.

Too much to ask maybe, and nothing that hasn't been suggested before, but there it is...my wishlist!

ive been messing around with some night missions using the pe8 as a stirling stand in. Ive worked around the nav lights problem by only having one plane per flight. No nav lights come on whatsoever

XyZspineZyX
01-08-2007, 10:32 AM
WHOA!

Who's coming up with multiple excuses, Seafire? Not me

I'm sorry I posted things that maybe you might not like to hear, but you can't look me in the eye and say I don't have a point

I wish they'd still make 1969 Dodge Chargers. But Chrysler is done with them. It doesn't hurt to ask them if they'd reconsider their thinking, but what are my chances, do you think?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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th3wraith06
01-08-2007, 02:14 PM
i got one, ps 3.0 water support for ati cards...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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SeaFireLIV
01-08-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
WHOA!

Who's coming up with multiple excuses, Seafire? Not me

I'm sorry I posted things that maybe you might not like to hear, but you can't look me in the eye and say I don't have a point

I wish they'd still make 1969 Dodge Chargers. But Chrysler is done with them. It doesn't hurt to ask them if they'd reconsider their thinking, but what are my chances, do you think?

Well, whatever sensibilities you feel I`ve stepped upon, my main point is true, whether you like it or not. Really, you shouldn`t even feel the need to post on it.

JacksonsGhost
01-08-2007, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Shakthamac:
ive been messing around with some night missions using the pe8 as a stirling stand in. Ive worked around the nav lights problem by only having one plane per flight. No nav lights come on whatsoever

Nice thought Shak.

The Pe-8 is one of the few aircraft that doesn't have nav lights whether flying solo or in groups, so unfortunately single plane flights are not the answer.

Shakthamac
01-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by JacksonsGhost:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shakthamac:
ive been messing around with some night missions using the pe8 as a stirling stand in. Ive worked around the nav lights problem by only having one plane per flight. No nav lights come on whatsoever

Nice thought Shak.

The Pe-8 is one of the few aircraft that doesn't have nav lights whether flying solo or in groups, so unfortunately single plane flights are not the answer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DAMNIT!

DustyBarrels77
01-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Is there anyway to get the ai aircraft to move smoothly rather then look so glitchy, they shake in the tails and the movement look very bad to me.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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