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View Full Version : Siege Tank Impossible to Destroy in Den Defense



EastCoastHandle
12-03-2011, 10:36 AM
Developers need to reduce the siege tank resistance to damage. It's impossible and extremely difficult to take out the siege tank when playing den defense. Not only that but you increased the speed in which it travels. It also destroys your barriers way to fast.

The catapult does 1/10th damage to it which is ridiculous. And for whatever reason you are not allow to take aim at the NPCs that are operating the siege tank.

This needs to be change, pronto!

D.I.D.
12-03-2011, 03:17 PM
It's not impossible at all, quite easy in fact. I only met the tank once because although I like TD games, AC:R's minigame has no tactical element to it at all.

Just make sure all the roofs have captains and put up as many gunners as possible (2/3 guns to 1/3 archers should be possible). Keep Ezio firing on the tank too and it'll go down before your building even takes 25% damage.

I don't think we'll ever see this again thankfully, and you can keep it out of AC:R too if you make sure you keep your notoriety down at all times. Remember every shop/landmark you buy is going to quietly push you another 1/4 into the red.

EastCoastHandle
12-03-2011, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by DoubleclickTF:
It's not impossible at all, quite easy in fact. I only met the tank once because although I like TD games, AC:R's minigame has no tactical element to it at all.

Just make sure all the roofs have captains and put up as many gunners as possible (2/3 guns to 1/3 archers should be possible). Keep Ezio firing on the tank too and it'll go down before your building even takes 25% damage.

I don't think we'll ever see this again thankfully, and you can keep it out of AC:R too if you make sure you keep your notoriety down at all times. Remember every shop/landmark you buy is going to quietly push you another 1/4 into the red.
The siege tank is extremely difficult to take out. Using the catapult it only does 1/10th damage to it. Destroys all barriers within 2 seconds and advances pretty fast to your den. Once there nothing seems to do any real damage to the tank.

What you suggest is just plain silly. The siege tank is over powered and needs to be reduced in it's functionality. Sure, you can get all the gunners you want but what you avoid commenting on is that it still making a bee line to your den with very little obstructing it. Which is the point of why I created this thread.

Now if you are lucky perhaps you can destroy the siege tank before it completely destroys your den. But most often that's not the case. The siege tank simply delivers way to much damage, too fast while absorbing little damage in return to be in balance with a "tower defense game".

The NPCs (something else you ignored in my post) should take gun/weapon fire since they are expose to it from the rooftops. Specially when the tank passes by you exposing their rear fully to gun fire. But you aren't allow to shot them like you can other NPCs. That shouldn't be.

NEW_GADGETS
12-03-2011, 09:26 PM
Are you talking about that battering ram thing? the first time i fought it i only had the 4 rifle guys and 2 crossbow guys and i destroyed it. How many barriers you putting up? i put up 4, though i think 5 would be better.And if there is a tank later on just ignore this post
: )

shop828247101
12-03-2011, 10:44 PM
the battering ram in the den defense mission to start is easy... the greek fire seige engine is not. (The first den defense after the opening mission demo)

I have been able to do it... and you are incorrect that ezio cannot target the engine... he cannot target the individual operators.. but he can damage the engine itself... albeit slightly. but he is correct.... a ratio of 2 to 1 gunners to archers on the last two rooftops is enough to take it out... if you save your cannon fire. 2 quick shots..... 2 fully upgraded barriers... and make sure to keep watch for one last wave of soldiers.. and you'll be just fine. (took me like 12 tries to finally win one outside of the main mission.)

Valerius85
12-04-2011, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by shop828247101:
the battering ram in the den defense mission to start is easy... the greek fire seige engine is not. (The first den defense after the opening mission demo)

I have been able to do it... and you are incorrect that ezio cannot target the engine... he cannot target the individual operators.. but he can damage the engine itself... albeit slightly. but he is correct.... a ratio of 2 to 1 gunners to archers on the last two rooftops is enough to take it out... if you save your cannon fire. 2 quick shots..... 2 fully upgraded barriers... and make sure to keep watch for one last wave of soldiers.. and you'll be just fine. (took me like 12 tries to finally win one outside of the main mission.)

there are 3 siege engines
- Battering Ram (easy)
- Greek Fire Ram (medium)
- Cannon Ram (hard)

The two first are "easy" enough to kill if you have enough gunners posted (crossbows will do no damage to the greek fire).
The cannon however is very difficult. It will blast through the first barricade then open fire on your den (it has the range to ignore the other barricades).
You will need lots of gunners and a fully charged player cannon to take it down the 1st time.
After that you get a nifty cannon-barricade to do it for you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

D.I.D.
12-04-2011, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by EastCoastHandle:
The siege tank is extremely difficult to take out. Using the catapult it only does 1/10th damage to it. Destroys all barriers within 2 seconds and advances pretty fast to your den. Once there nothing seems to do any real damage to the tank.

What you suggest is just plain silly. The siege tank is over powered and needs to be reduced in it's functionality. Sure, you can get all the gunners you want but what you avoid commenting on is that it still making a bee line to your den with very little obstructing it. Which is the point of why I created this thread.

Now if you are lucky perhaps you can destroy the siege tank before it completely destroys your den. But most often that's not the case. The siege tank simply delivers way to much damage, too fast while absorbing little damage in return to be in balance with a "tower defense game".

The NPCs (something else you ignored in my post) should take gun/weapon fire since they are expose to it from the rooftops. Specially when the tank passes by you exposing their rear fully to gun fire. But you aren't allow to shot them like you can other NPCs. That shouldn't be.

I let an another attack happen just to see if I was lucky. That's two greek fire tanks I've destroyed now, and I destroyed the latest one a long way from the den. I also did it without using the area effect weapon because I wanted the Iron Curtain achievement.

It might seem "plain silly" to you, but I strongly recommend you try this crazy plan of shooting at the tank. Don't just fire once at the tank - you really need to shoot at the tank again and again. Many times. Repeatedly.

It doesn't let you shoot the pilots for the same reason you can't walk inside the gun outposts in the main game - it would make it too easy. I wouldn't expect balance or skill from this game mode when you can see at a glance that it's got absolutely none of the elements that make TD work.

EastCoastHandle
12-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by DoubleclickTF:
snip
LOL, that has nothing to do what what I've posted. As I noted already:
1. You should be able to target the operators of the siege tanks but you are not. This should be changed.
2. The siege tanks take very little damage using your own catapult. This makes no sense to me and needs to be changed so that it takes more damage.
3. The siege tank navigates to fast through the corridor. Do to the nature of a siege tank (it being cumbersome to operate, etc) it should not be able to navigate that fast through the corridor. It needs to be slowed down.
4. Siege tank destroys your barriers to fast. If I upgrade my barriers it should also provide some cover (slow down the siege tank) as it's the maximum upgrade allowable for it. That has to mean something against both infantry and the siege tank. Currently a fully upgraded barrier only effects infantry and it's effects are minimal if you ask me. So, if a person decides to upgrade their barrier (it should have an impacting effect on both infantry and the siege tank (all versions).

The fact remains you are unable to rebut the comments I've made. The typical "well I can do it" has no merit to the information I've provided other then just being argumentative as you have nothing else to contribute. Please note, this is just a mini game to the actual game being played. As so, it should not be this difficult to play as it's part of the main game.

In the end, the siege tank needs to be toned down. You may not agree but that's as far as we will get on the subject.




Originally posted by shop828247101:
I have been able to do it... and you are incorrect that ezio cannot target the engine... he cannot target the individual operators.. but he can damage the engine itself...
I have to ask, to whom are you addressing this to? I know I've made no mention of what Ezio can and can't do and didn't read anyone else mentioning this as well. Or did I miss the quote?

Six_Gun
12-06-2011, 04:56 AM
East Coast, pay no mind to these guys. Even the reviews that rate ACR highly admit the Den Defense seems out of place in a game like this. Worse yet, after failing to defend a den, you spawn right near it where you can easily waltz right in and take out their Captain and get it right back. It's as if they're admitting it's a flawed feature that many will be annoyed by, rather than doing the right thing and making DD more sensible.

This is also about the only game I'm currently playing that I actually have to turn the brightness of my monitor up and down quite a bit because far too many areas are WAY too dark, even with in game brightness set to 6, which makes a lot of daytime areas look too washed out, and I have a Trinitron CRT btw, with no black crushing that LCDs exhibit.

I swear the guy that was responsible for lighting in this game ought to be let go. There's also WAY too much color saturation in a lot of places.

Kraschman2010
12-26-2011, 06:45 PM
It's not that hard to destroy the siege engines. In practice, by the time they show up I have leaders on all rooftops, 3-4 archers in front with 1 or two air assassins, then riflemen for the rest in every available spot if possible, and at least 3 barricades, fully upgraded.

The most resilient engine is actually the first, the battering ram. And ignoring Ezio's pistol or the cannon, requires 56 hits by your riflemen to drop it. Put six guys up or more on the walls and that's 10 shots each. Noy hard at all, especially with 3 barricades to slow it's progress.

Once you have the Iron Curtain achievement taken care of, use the cannon on it whenever possible to make it even easier. The cannon works most effectively when it has a clean line of sight, so just AFTER it fells a barricade is a GREAT time. And replacing barricades immediately upon their destruction is a nice trick too.

Do that and make sure your riflemen are kept replenished on the wall as much as possible, and you should have little difficulty. I recall the cannon siege engine never even got through my second barricade the last time I did it.

Ezio's primary job during the engine attack is making sure his forces are replenished, far more than shooting with his pistol.

AnthonyA85
12-28-2011, 08:37 AM
I can't even kill the god damned Fire Siphon in the first DD mission after the tutorial one.

I fill my rooftops with crossbow guys, a few riflemen and some air assassins, and put down a few barricades, and the Fire Siphon just rolls right down the street.

If the Cannon is mainly meant to be used against the Engines, then it needs to recharge ALOT faster.

I hit that thing with three shots, from the cannon, one after the other (didn't want to use salvo, because that takes forever to reacharge), and they only took about 30 odd percent of health, by the time the Engine's health gets down to about 20% or so, it's already burned down the den.

I originally thought i'd like Den Defense, but without Splinter Bomb guys on the rooftops, theres no way i'll stop those Engines, so now i've just decided to lock all but one of my dens.

The only MA mission i can't do is the Vizier Prt 1 (I HATE doing races, HATE THEM!).

Mutley_Rulz
12-28-2011, 09:00 PM
Cannonz.

Kraschman2010
12-29-2011, 08:14 AM
Anthony, you've identified the problem you're having.

"I fill my rooftops with crossbow guys, a few riflemen and some air assassins, and put down a few barricades"

This is almost exactly BACKWARDS to the strategy you NEED.

Fill the rooftops with RIFLEMEN, a few crossbowmen and air assassins (I'd say no more than six total except for riflemen). The barricades are fine provided they are FULLY upgraded.

The problem you're having is that the crossbowmen do only about 1/3 the damage in ranged attacks that the rifles do, even though they shoot a bit more frequently. So the engine is not getting hit hard enough by each crossbowman before it moves out of their range.

Use 3-4 crossbows, 1-2 air assassins, and the rest rifles and see how you make out. And use the cannon most specifically just after the engine has destroyed a barricade, which gives the cannon the best possible shot.

I was in the same boat as you for a while (and wanted to chuck my controller at the screen) until I used this technique. After that the engines dropped pretty easily.

(BTW salvos of rifle shots at the enemy grunts just as they appear can easily cause them to rout before they make any real headway, plus crossbows don't do anything to Almogavars anyway)

russell3041
12-29-2011, 01:24 PM
The main problem here is the way in which AC makes you do combat. There is no aiming. The computer does the aiming for you once you lock onto a target.

I think most of us would prefer that the combat was more like Morrowind. I really hate hitting a key to target a an enemy and then the computer does the aiming. Let me aim my own projectiles and let me aim them at anything I want to.

AnthonyA85
12-29-2011, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the advice Krashman, I'll try that stategy, i've only got 1 den left to take (top left den), all the others are now locked.

I'll see how i do, hopefully i'll manage alright, heh, I haven't even done the first mission of sequence 4 yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.

Kraschman2010
12-29-2011, 11:05 PM
My game on the Pc is right at the beginning of Sequence 4 as well, with 4 MA's and all 6 dens captured.

Just remember, once the engine starts coming towards you, after shooting the engine once to trigger the rest of your forces attacking, Ezio HAS to focus on just making sure there are about 3 full barricades and filling every space he can on the walls with rifles.

56 rifle hits will drop ANY engine, and most take less to kill. (The Greek fire would need only 45) The key is having enough rifles on the wall to deliver that, and enough barricades to slow the progress of the engine long enough to deliver it. Adding cannon shots in there is gravy. Pistol shots from Ezio is double gravy. Ezio replenishing forces and barricades as necessary is the primary role in endgame.