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View Full Version : Some additional news for 3.01 version



Oleg_Maddox
11-19-2004, 09:07 AM
In the beginning of the next week we will release one more pre-add-on small patch 3.02 for you tests about visibility of aircraft and ground objects (I think today we found the best solution for all who like new and who dislike it).

There aslo will be several pre-add-on fixes.

carguy_
11-19-2004, 09:10 AM
WOWEE YIPPEE I LOVE YOU OLEG!!

VF-29_Sandman
11-19-2004, 09:36 AM
so far in qmb, i like what we have...easier to maintain visual on bogey after it's out of icon 'range'. ok, so u cant see the full plane, but u can see something buzzin around

Kasdeya
11-19-2004, 09:37 AM
Thanks Oleg and team. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

SeaFireLIV
11-19-2004, 09:39 AM
wow! That`s what I call interactive!

I`m sure the changes will help everyone (or at least MOST people). Thanx, for working on this, Oleg.

Jetbuff
11-19-2004, 09:52 AM
I really hope that any compromise is not too different from what we have now which is excellent imo: planes are finally visible at realistic ranges without using the old ugly black dots.

269GA FLY
11-19-2004, 09:56 AM
we're ready to test... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

karost
11-19-2004, 10:10 AM
Well... sound interesting !
objects visibility at far range is a major concern for WWII air combat simulation.


I played LockOn and see they did a good job for that , hope your new work can show us a better

edit: for IL-2 when I see two moving dots at far range , the bigger dot is LW and a small one is VVS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

btw thanks for patch 3.01 S~

S!

Bearcat99
11-19-2004, 10:18 AM
This why any sim that 1C makes is gauranteed my hard earned $$$........... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

tolwyn.com
11-19-2004, 10:18 AM
Oleg's ****ed if he does, and ****ed if he doesn't.

Why not just adjust your mp_dotrange settings or put 'em on a slider and never look back and such things?

Given the same dotrange settings, yes, they are much more easy to see; simply adjust the dotrange settings. They are manageable.

Zen--
11-19-2004, 10:20 AM
Does this mean dots that will look different than these new ones in 3.01?

Interesting.

ucanfly
11-19-2004, 10:23 AM
It has nothing to do with dot range settings. At 800 meters at default dot range settings SBDs were reduced to an invisible pixel. That is just plain wrong. These new dots are a HUGE improvement in what has been the biggest frustration in the game for me.

Please Oleg don't go back to invisible dots. The game is finally playable without icons.

Tooz_69GIAP
11-19-2004, 10:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ucanfly:

Please Oleg don't go back to invisible dots. The game is finally playable without icons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finally playbale without icons??? ****, you must have bad eyes. No offence, but the dots wer visible to me from about 10km away. Okay,m they were't massive, but I could see em, and I could track em. And I rarely enter servers with icons on.

Anyway, the new dots are great, one guy I was flying with said he could still see me from 15km away (according to the grids on the map), and they were far more visible in the mid ranges too.

But I am interested to see how they get changed again. Just one thing though, what if the changed dots suck, will the patch after 3.02 fix em back, or what? Or will we be stuck with the not so good dots? Assuming of course that the new dots aren't so good that is!!

Willey
11-19-2004, 10:56 AM
That's the point about Maddox Games. Call it direct support http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
11-19-2004, 11:14 AM
Thanks Oleg. I am simply amazed.

269GA-Veltro
11-19-2004, 11:17 AM
You are great Oleg! Thank you very much!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aeronautico
11-19-2004, 11:39 AM
Well...

I was flying in QMB, always busy tracking the plane in front of me, but by the side of my eyes I could "perceive" a presence. There was a plane flying not far aside me, but could not identify it "on the fly"...

... till I realise it's a wing of B-29's some 10 kms away or something, whose "solid" dots are so... well, solid, that they can even resemble a plane a few hundreds meters away!

Oleg_Maddox
11-19-2004, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tolwyn.com:
Oleg's ****ed if he does, and ****ed if he doesn't.

Why not just adjust your mp_dotrange settings or put 'em on a slider and never look back and such things?

Given the same dotrange settings, yes, they are much more easy to see; simply adjust the dotrange settings. They are manageable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its true, but it seems that nobody tried it.

TheGozr
11-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Maybe by reducing a tight the black dot and adding some mettalic reflection or shine that would be absolutly great..

Mettalic shine is the way to go.. It will give more realistic and life to the sim.

(Exelent <--and-->perfect mode at list)

tolwyn.com
11-19-2004, 12:17 PM
The main challenge for Oleg (and anyone) is simply passed the LOD 3 model, you have to start thinking in clumps of pixels.

At 15K or so, you have honestly, about 1 or 2 pixels to represent "an object out in the distance". It's really hard to find the "right" solution to depict an object in a computer game at that distance.

Finding that "happy medium" is hard to do; but making an adjustable "medium" might be the best solution, we just need to take the time to learn how to adjust it to make all of us happy. Heh.

TheGozr
11-19-2004, 12:21 PM
Exactly.
2 pixel black, maybe should try 1 black pixel + 1 pixel shiny( silver or light .

Give it a try Oleg.

Popey109
11-19-2004, 12:27 PM
I must be in the minority€¦I love what you€ve done in this patch Oleg. I feel like I€m really playing FB+PF at my systems full potential€¦and while I like the high vis aircraft the ground objects in 3.0 where better! como was suppose to make you hunt for targets now there to easy to spot€¦but I could be wrong ( never flown IRL but once) others here will correct me if I am wrong€¦anyway thank you, this is still by far the best patch to date, I would recommend perches of PF just for the 3.01 update http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ucanfly
11-19-2004, 12:42 PM
There must be something system dependent problem here because there is no way I could spot a plane (pre 3.01)from 10 km away regardless of dotrange settings except for 109 perhaps. Several aircraft are very big at high distances (like 109) but others are nearly invisible (like SBD or A6M) at less than 1 km at default dotrange settings. Maybe this was a bug for Nvidea, because so many are complaining about the visibility.

I refuse to play this game if you go back to the old dots (pre 3.01) - at least for 1 week.

Wolkenbeisser
11-19-2004, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tolwyn.com:
...At 15K or so, you have honestly, about 1 or 2 pixels to represent "an object out in the distance". It's really hard to find the "right" solution to depict an object in a computer game at that distance...Heh. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, hi Oleg. Would it be a solution to make the dot a very pale (almost invisible) one at the limit (the "farest" distance you could spot a plane) and then - as closer as you come - make the dot stronger (darker and bigger)?

I think this way you could also achieve the feeling, that an object wich is far away looks like spotted in "dusty" (don't know the right word - I mean a not very clear weather, with much humidity in it) air, and objects that are near are more sharp/strong to see.

Can anybody of you englishspeaking gentlemen help me to express myself (german is my motherlanguage), please? I'm not sure if Oleg can understand what I'trying to say.

Thx

zunzun
11-19-2004, 01:28 PM
I undestood you loud and clear Wolkenbeisser (maybe because english is neither mine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).
I think that what you trid to say with "dusty" was "hazy".
By the way I agree you in your suggestion of a medium setting for the dots. It would have the better caracteristics of both version (3.0 and 3.01)

Bogun
11-19-2004, 01:45 PM
What I am afraid now is having (how to say it correctly ?) smallest LOD for planes being less visible then those dots... Having harder time tracking rendered planes representation then those black/white dots...

clint-ruin
11-19-2004, 01:47 PM
There were a couple of alternative suggestions other than a big dot that I wouldn't mind getting Oleg to comment on:

a) using a very dull low contrast 'dot' [neither full black or white], but make it 'flash' at a random interval - just change its colour for a split second.

b) use shaders to highlight or 'flash' distant objects LODs occasionally.

SeaFireLIV
11-19-2004, 02:32 PM
I think one thing we do not want to lose is the ability to SEARCH for enemy aircraft at a distance, as real WWII pilots had to do. It wasn`t guaranteed to be succesful either.

I don`t agree that aircraft should be GUARANTEED spotted which I think the present dots are doing.

This I think is especially important for people who DON`T use aircraft labels, like myself. Funny how the adjustable element of the dot in the Readme was ignored by just about everyone....

Stiglr
11-19-2004, 02:35 PM
What's dotrange got to do with dot visibility? Dot range controls the distance at which dots "appear", or more accurately, are rendered.

Whether or not you can actually see or discern the dot is another issue.

Snoop_Baron
11-19-2004, 03:13 PM
Hi Oleg,

Thanks a lot for trying to find a good solution for all of us. The new dots are great on my new 21 LCD at 1600x1200 resolution http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The old ones where ok at 1024x768 but not at 1600x1200.

I look forward to testing what ever solution your teams put together.

Here is my own thoughts on a possible solution:

1) Client side option to turn on or off the display of these new dot types.

2) New mp_dotrange server side option to limit max range at which the new dots will display on clients that have them turned on. But with a built in mimum new dot display distance (decided by Oleg and team).

// client option
alt_dot ON|OFF

// server+client option
mp_dotrange ALT_DOT 5 DOT 20 NAME 0.01 COLOR 0.01 TYPE 0.01 RANGE 0.01 ID 0.01

Where ALT_DOT is the new alternate dot type.

Beckh_3.JG51
11-19-2004, 03:32 PM
Thats great news! Short lived square dots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

VW-IceFire
11-19-2004, 03:39 PM
I give a BIG MASSIVE HUGE THUMBS UP for the new dots. I can actually see the planes, they aren't invisible anymore. I am thankful for the time and effort spent fixing this item...the game is alot more realistic to me now than before.

Considering the memories and whatnot where the pilots could see planes from a distance and yet I couldn't see much of anything.

IVJG51_Swine
11-19-2004, 04:00 PM
A metallic look would be great.

How about light reflection from canopies??? Just a thought...

609IAP_Recon
11-19-2004, 04:54 PM
I hope something is left, for the first time ever with my ATI card I can actually see ground targets.

"Mood of the topic. posted Fri November 19 2004 14:39
I give a BIG MASSIVE HUGE THUMBS UP for the new dots. I can actually see the planes, they aren't invisible anymore. I am thankful for the time and effort spent fixing this item...the game is alot more realistic to me now than before.

Considering the memories and whatnot where the pilots could see planes from a distance and yet I couldn't see much of anything. "

I agree totally to your statement, same thing here - for once I can actually see things.

Now - if we could get better visibility from 1.5km and in we'll be golden

Chuck_Older
11-19-2004, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
This why any sim that 1C makes is gauranteed my hard earned $$$........... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree more, Bear http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

C6_PoPoff
11-19-2004, 05:58 PM
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> great on my new 21 LCD at 1600x1200 resolution </pre>
Yes but for all the men's playing on a 17 CRT in 1024 it's really unrealistic and awfull!!

It's impossible to judge distance of boogey and it's impossible to identifie the plan futher than 500m !!

Thanx for this good patch, but let the choice for players playing in full real!! please !

AlmightyTallest
11-19-2004, 06:54 PM
I think it's really subjective.

I play at 1024x768 and I thought it was fine before the patch personally. But people that play at 1600x1200 tend to like the new patch.

My suggestion Oleg would be to give the players the choice, make it a selectable option in the sim. If you want the old dots, you have the choice, if you want the new ones, just select the option in the graphics section of the game.

You can't go wrong keeping multiple solutions to the problem in the game, but making all the options available for the player to select them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
11-19-2004, 07:13 PM
Almighty, EXACTLY!

Those who say "just keep the dots" are not considering low res users. Those who say "bring back the old dots" are not considering high res users.

A compromise is needed and I guess that is what we will get. I'll take ANYTHING over what I have had for the last couple years running at 1600x1200.

Hans_Philipp
11-20-2004, 03:20 AM
Does this mean that Ship view distance and ship wake view distance will be considerably increased? I sincerely hope so!;-)))))

<Fingers crossed>

CAF_FN_IDIOT
11-20-2004, 09:05 AM
Thanks Oleg!
I read it could be an option in difficulty settings.
I think there is no argument if it is the option of the host, IMO.
Many thanks.

CHDT
11-20-2004, 03:12 PM
And as a "collateral" effect of these new dots, the dogfights are much more interesting, as, because enemy aircrafts can be better spotted, pilots have to climb higher and to prepare carefully attack approaches: in resume, no more stupid furballs.

I like it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So, perhaps keep the new dots like they are, but decrease their opacity to 60-70% and make them just a little bit greyer.

ALso some metallic effects would be a blast!

DIRTY-MAC
11-20-2004, 03:25 PM
I think the
chose between option sounds like a good idea

BlitzPig_Frat
11-20-2004, 03:52 PM
I like the new dots and apreciate 1C's continual direct support. It's evident that this is a passion to Oleg just as it is to us. So, any attempt to satisfy the masses, whether you like the change or not, should be accepted for what they are and we all should atleast be grateful.

Bogun
11-20-2004, 06:11 PM
As some people noticed and Oleg confirmed €" overly good dot visibility at high range can be taken care of by intelligent €œmp_dotrange€ settings. But what about visibility in the crucial range between 1 and 2 km? It is even more important to be able to see planes in this range then farther away. For me and many others €" it is the hardest part in the game€¦

Please, take a look:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Bogun/Mid_range_visibility.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
11-20-2004, 09:13 PM
Oleg as long time aircraft spotter, I thank you for the New Dots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif I am running 1024x768 and the new dots are very realistic especially how they grow smaller with distance.

Awsum post Bogun.

I played with "rcu" dotrange the night of Patch!! Yes Oleg we tried it and it works. My compter is down now, but from my earlier experiments I set DOT range at 10km--the Dots turned to Classic FB micro~dots at about 5km and totally dissapear at 7km. Something wierd there with the setting (10km), but playing with the settings works wonders.

clint-ruin
11-20-2004, 10:02 PM
Bogun - the 'midrange' missing LODs are what I'd love to get even just basic colour cycles [or nice flashy pixel shader effects] put on. Needs to be some way to simulate light flashing off the canopy or airframe rather than just the flat directional lighting.

GRPlaton
11-22-2004, 04:31 AM
DOT IS WAY TO UNREAL now u cant even see what type off plane is flying below u and thats hard when u dive to attack and in 1 k with 700 kilometer speed u see a frienly plane?
i do love that game for been close toreality

i can understain new pilots or pilots with low speed PCs but the best for me is to be set ...LIKE A REALITY SETTING.. like icons
i thing this way all will be happy
OLD AND NEW PILOTS

T_Rom
11-22-2004, 05:03 AM
Good to hear that Oleg has looked into this matter! I was shocked to see the new dots, and a friend of mine on the server said: "this is probably just bug....certainly Oleg will fix this." Looking forward to seeing the old dots back! My resolution is 1024x768.

S!

Hunter82
11-22-2004, 06:28 AM
@ 1600X1200 which is what I play at it works well and is helpful. Hopefully the solution will work well and evenly for all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
11-22-2004, 10:11 AM
The only improvement I could suggest over the current dots (used in conjunction with the mp_dotrange command) is lower the contrast with range. As the range increases, gradually blend both the black pixel and the white pixel with the background colour.

Josiv_
11-22-2004, 04:57 PM
Bogun could you put that dot_range test mission on some ftp. I would like to take look how it looks on my config, but im to lasy to do such mission :P
I would be thankful.

CHDT
11-23-2004, 03:14 AM
this seems OK to me. Hope the dots wont become invisible again:

http://img97.exs.cx/img97/2966/grab0004.jpg


Because dogfights are now much more interesting: no more stupid furballs, but combats with energy and clever tactical approaches. Everything in fact that the turn and burners hate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

That's perhaps the reason of all this whining.

In fact, it's a rather common attitude. When a thing gives again some realistic advantage to the boom and zoomers (remember the energy discusion after the second patch of FB), T&B cry-babies begin screaming http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

wallbergder
11-24-2004, 07:57 AM
oleg when is the dedicated server coming?

Vipez-
11-24-2004, 08:58 AM
well the way i see it, dots allways were there, visible enough.. problem was you had to use extremely crappy settings too dots better (esspecially those Yaks and I-16s flying over green forest).. the thing i hated most, most games gives the advantage to high end computers with better graphics, but allways have been other way around in FB, the crappier settings, the better you see dots.. I have hoped this to change for long time..

Changing 16 bit colors, no stencil buffer, and object/landscape lightning to minimal has allways worked for me to see dots fairly well.. playing on perfect was out of the question..

Buster_Dee
11-24-2004, 10:02 AM
Jane's Attack Squadron, the sim that proved beyond a doubt that you can sell unfinished software, used a kind of halo around distant targets. It was innovative, but it definitely pandered to us blind guys. Something more intermittent would have been better. I think the occassional (but not strobing) reflection would be wonderful--just enough to scare the b-jeezus out of you, but not enough to help.

luke97
11-25-2004, 06:00 AM
But...Where is that mini-patch??? Thursday doesn´t seem to be the beggining of the week as Oleg said..
My hope is that maybe today or tomorrow we can have the two patches (mini and addon) together...

buz13
11-25-2004, 01:06 PM
Considering the health care plan there I guess somebody else is sick this week.....GOOD HEALTH TO ALL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

necrobaron
11-25-2004, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:

Finally playbale without icons??? ****, you must have bad eyes. No offence, but the dots wer visible to me from about 10km away. Okay,m they were't massive, but I could see em, and I could track em. And I rarely enter servers with icons on.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with the sentiment here. I've never had the problems seeing planes that I hear so many complaining about. I have a 19" monitior and run at 1600x1200, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I never knew this was even considered a problem until we got the new dots in 3.01.

Popey109
11-25-2004, 11:35 PM
I really think people need to spend some more time with this and keep an open mind€¦I€m having a lot of trouble tracking targets! Yes I can see the dots just fine, but I cant tell if I€m closing or falling behind, especially when it comes to bombers in level flight, before they where hard to spot but I could always tell if I was closing on them some of you mite want to try some off line missions and explore this some more. I don€t think Olegs going to keep changing it

KG26_Alpha
11-26-2004, 05:51 AM
Is is possible that Oleg and the 1c team can show us some screen shots of what they are up to with the new "dots" so we could see whats what with thier decision making ?

As Oleg asked us it would make sense to see these new "dots" pre patch release.

S! All

VOL_Mountain
11-26-2004, 12:17 PM
I haven't tried v3.02b but I appreciate the visuals of v3.01. Thanks Oleg!

aklabo
11-27-2004, 12:00 PM
shadows under bridges ,Shadows of buildings and hills refl. in water flicking (66.93 ver. 3.01m)

TheGozr
01-18-2005, 01:00 AM
I repeat again: http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe by reducing a tight the black dot and adding some mettalic reflection or shine that would be absolutly great..

Mettalic shine is the way to go.. It will give more realistic and life to the sim.