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drose01
05-24-2005, 10:24 AM
Playing online many questions of etiquette arise, specifically:

1) Just a minute ago, online on a "semifullreall" server, I stalked a He111, smoked it and then cut its wing off. As I looped away, a teammate dove on the spinning wreck and fired a long burst into it, getting credit for the kill. Is that cool? I didnt say anything. Should I have?

2) Many dogfight type servers have "do not vulch" rules, stating that no guns should be used for planes with wheels on the ground. But often people will strafe you moments after lift off, with airspeed around 200-240 kmph and alt about 50 meters. This seems to be a violation of the spirit if not the letter of the rules. I usually wait until they get to at least 600 meters or so to engage, shouldnt I?

3) Again, on do not vulch servers, I may be in a turning battle with an enemy, usually one or both of us have taken some significant damage, and then abruptly in that fight the enemy will switch on lights, lower wheels and start to land, either on an airfield or just a field . This generally is annoying, and I am tempted to keep on firing. Should I?

Tallyho1961
05-24-2005, 10:43 AM
Drose01, based on your questions, I'd venture to say that we fly online with roughly the same general spirit/attitude/philosophy.

I see all kinds of 'interesting' behaviour and just ignore it. Personally, I don't vulch, I don't kill steal (intentionally, anyway), don't shoot up fatally damaged aircraft, parachuting pilots, etc. No sermon here, that's just me.

And if I see a guy put on his lights, I move on. I'm not super-competitive by nature; I fly onlne for the enjoyement, and to improve my virtual flying skills. When I score a kill, I'm having fun. When I don't, I'm still having fun.

My favourite online breach of etiquette is pilots taking off sraight across an airfield, without even bothering to look for an actual runway, almost as though if they don't get airborne as fast as humanly possible something bad will happen to them.

I guess it takes all kinds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Fennec_P
05-24-2005, 10:44 AM
1) A sarcastic comment couldn't hurt. Like 'good kill' or something. Not that points are important or anything.

2) Do that if you want, though any concepts of 'chivalry' are entirely your own. Excercise caution when taking off.

3) Most servers just disallow shooting planes on ground, so blow him away. I'll often try to land if I'm damaged, but certainly won't expect the enemy to give me a free pass (it's no fun that way!). But blowing up the enemy isn't really that important. It's more fun to watch them try and land, especially if they're missing controls http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

PBNA-Boosher
05-24-2005, 10:47 AM
1 and 2 you will have to deal with. Just try to evade. You're slower, chances are you have a maneuver advantage. As for number 1 Kill stealing happens, just ignore it, at least the plane you were trying to down got downed. That's all that should matter, no matter who did it.

3> NO! NO! NO! This is not honorable etiquette. When an enemy switches on his lights, lowers his wheels and starts to land you DO NOT keep attacking. Unless you're a vile rapist who decides to pillage and burn all life he sees, this is not good. While it may not exist for many, it is up to you to maintain personal Chivalry. Hub says it best in Secondhand Lions:

"D@mn, if you want to believe in something, believe in it, just because something isn't true doesn't mean you can't believe in it. "

Honor does exist. And as long as you keep it, others will learn from your behaviors.

I don't give a **** if it's annoying. You should respect a virtual pilot like you would a human being in real air combat. There is a plus side to this as well, save ammo for other targets.

Honestly, I'm surprised that you would even let yourself be tempted to do that. The stain of dishonor marks any pilot who follows any such tactic.

drose01
05-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Wow, Boosher, thats a strong take on question number 3.

I dont usually ever want to shoot landers in a no vulch game, the question only comes when the transition from fighting to landing is instantaneous.

My own personal code of honor when dogfighting tells me that when I am in a fight, especially when it goes on a few minutes or more, that I will fight til I win or die, or possibly run away, but not to abrubtly stop fighting if I am at a disadvantage and expect my opponent to lay off.

Fennec_P
05-24-2005, 11:02 AM
I'd say trying to land to get out of a fight is the ultimate breach of chivalry.

If I land in a combat zone, I expect ppl to still try and kill me. If they don't, am I good for landing in one piece? No, I'd just be some wuss calling 'home free'. Save your misguided pity for parachutists; I'm still very much a factor, landing or not.

Besides, if you turn your tail at me while I'm landing, I'm apt to clean up and blow you away.

Freelancer-1
05-24-2005, 11:09 AM
Even worse than the "my lights are on don't shoot me" people are the pilots (I use the term loosly) who disconnect after you light them up so they don't have a shot down on the almighty stats page. Then you see them rejoining the game within 30 seconds.

Play as you will, but remember, most df servers are Air-Quake and you will rarely see any kind of decent behavior from your opponents, or for that matter, your teammates.

If your looking to see proper conduct, try the co-ops and online wars.

SlickStick
05-24-2005, 11:25 AM
1. Kill stealing is just plain wrong, m'kay?

2. I enjoy vulching with bombs and rockets on servers that allow it, but to hover over an enemy base to use my guns to attack planes that are just taking off and can't defend themselves, holds no merit for me.

3. If I am engaged in a turn fight and the guy has the upper hand and wants to RTB, I won't shoot him in the back as he turns away. However, if they to break off from the losing end of a dogfight and try to quickly RTB to avoid getting shot down, it's clobberin' time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, on servers where home base landings are protected, that is the only place I will let them land. Anytime an enemy tries to land at a non-color base, enemy base or in the field, they are a target to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Freelancer said it well, proper conduct in most DF servers is an oxymoron. Most are just out for themselves, but you can find a few good honorable wingmen to fly with in DF servers and they'll always return the favor.

diomedes33
05-24-2005, 11:30 AM
1.) Shooting an already doomed plane is just plane stupid all it does is piss people off and waste ammo.

For the latter two. I usually play on servers with vulching to avoid this. IMO, if you have the will to engage someone it is your responsibility to stay alive. Wether that be to victory or escape its up to you. Its immature and petty to start crying when you realized you're in a hard spot. When you start having to deal with it you learn not to put yourself in those situations anymore and fly smarter.

That's just my opinion though and ultimatly its up to the server admin to decide what is the law. Abide by the briefing or find another server. That's about all you can do.

womenfly
05-24-2005, 11:51 AM
Been reading all the comments on vulching but didn't Von Richthofen vulch? Didn't most of the US airmen vulch when the Me-262 was used, waiting to catch them landing or at takeoff. Wasn't that the game in Real Life?

Just an observation... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Sure glad this is only a game ... some of you are rustless ...

P.S. I only play off-line. Reading all this does not make playing on-line sound fun to me, maybe one day.

Sultan_of_Swing
05-24-2005, 12:11 PM
1. the virtual air is thick with boneheads who can't get a kill any other way, or are really into the "score', *chuckle*. Take several deep breaths, and move on.

2. If it's a no vulch server, then let them land. I agree, give them airspeed and some alt on take off. The main thing to observe here is: the server op is big into honor, so error on the safe side to keep tempers cool. In a server where vulching is allowed, or a "full real/war server" where plane count matters, then yes, kill them, kill them all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

3. If you have been been fighting with a guy and he tries to escape that way, you could just say "bravely fought http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif" and let his cowardice just sit there like a bad smell from the rest room of a Mexican Restaurant.

SlickStick
05-24-2005, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by womenfly:
Been reading all the comments on vulching but didn't Von Richthofen vulch? Didn't most of the US airmen vulch when the Me-262 was used, waiting to catch them landing or at takeoff. Wasn't that the game in Real Life?

Just an observation... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Sure glad this is only a game ... some of you are rustless ...

P.S. I only play off-line. Reading all this does not make playing on-line sound fun to me, maybe one day.

Without a doubt, ground attacks on airfields happened frequently. However, "vulching" in a DF server is a little different from real life and is up to the Host to allow. Some like their server to be for dogfighting, not just hovering over enemy bases and picking off ez targets.

Online is so much more fun, but you have to have a littel bit of a thick skin and fly for your own fun and enjoyment. There are a few good online servers where the admins do a great job in keeping things honorable and fair as well as fun.

Besides, shooting planes piloted by another person is always more fun than shooting the AI. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ploughman
05-24-2005, 12:16 PM
Is it possible to surrender on-line?

Jumoschwanz
05-24-2005, 12:21 PM
Shoot down anyone that kill steals or shoots over your shoulder, they will understand nothing less. THey should be covering you from other threats, not competing with you, they want action so bad, give it to them!

Non-vulching servers and vulch-whineing are for girls and fa9-choirboys. Get on a real server and bomb and strafe your foes airfields mercilessly, when they squeal like stuck pigs, put a big smile on!

S!

Jumoschwanz

Freelancer-1
05-24-2005, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Is it possible to surrender on-line?

Control E usually works http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

diomedes33
05-24-2005, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
Shoot down anyone that kill steals or shoots over your shoulder, they will understand nothing less. THey should be covering you from other threats, not competing with you, they want action so bad, give it to them!

Non-vulching servers and vulch-whineing are for girls and fa9-choirboys. Get on a real server and bomb and strafe your foes airfields mercilessly, when they squeal like stuck pigs, put a big smile on!

S!

Jumoschwanz
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DxyFlyr
05-24-2005, 12:37 PM
drose01,

I'm fairly convinced you've got nothing to worry about. Firstly, you know how to spell etiquette. Secondly, the concept is important to you... so much that you asked the question here. Just act/ react the way you would anywhere.

For me, etiquette at the hyperlobby is no different than anywhere else. It's all about being courteous. The only hard and fast rules while in a server (outside of those I already live by) are those set by the Server and or Coop host.

If I don't want to get poked in the eye, I don't go around poking people in the eye. Same for kill stealing, etc.

If you want to know which side of the cockpit your fork goes on, I can't help you there.

RAF74_Poker
05-24-2005, 12:55 PM
Well, here comes my opinion. Including what I think is the chivalrous option that I try and follow.

1/ If the plane is in flames .. then they should let it go ... they're after the points.
If it's only smoking ... you should have finished him off if you're gonna worry about it. There are many online who will continue to fight, even if their plane is smoking .. hell, I've seen SBD's continue a bombing run on a carrier while flaming for that matter!
Personally, I try to shoot them up until I think they're out of the fight .. then move on - if someone else really wants the points.. more power to ya. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
2/If the rules say do not vulch .. then don't shoot 'em on the ground ... 10m up is not on the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Personally, I have no problem with making a pass over an airfield and shooting/bombing anything there ... I do have an issue with "perching" .. hovering over the field and continuously shooting anyone who spawns.

3/ Dropping gear and turning on lights is a universal sign of surrender.
It's up to you whether you let them do so .. understand that you won't get the kill if they land safely.
Personnally .. Do this and land quickly and I'll hold fire.
Clean up and try and get me and I will never let you do it again.
I'll know who it is because to be in a position to do this, you must be pretty beat up which means I've gotten enough damage on you to generate an in game message about your status. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Unfortunately, with the prevalence of stat *****s, dropping your gear and surrendering is a pretty risky option ... as you can see from most responses ... you're just giving them an easy kill.

WarbirdsofPrey servers (www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org))allows vulching, but usually has pretty honorable people on it .. they also have a stat for Land safely .... now that's a stat worth whoring for ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~S!~

RAF74_Poker
05-24-2005, 12:57 PM
And the fork goes on the left side of the cockpit, but the soup spoon must be placed above the gunsight !