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View Full Version : The old AH/WB community "corner speed".



WWMaxGunz
01-21-2007, 04:10 PM
Back years ago I had heard of these 'magic numbers' that the communities of two online
games gathered and circulated between virtual pilots 'in the know'.

They called the magic numbers Corner Speed. They were GOLD.

However, other pilots more in the know told and showed me that the term Corner Speed was
false. The numbers gathered could be more accurately called Sustained Corner Speed or I
think another term is Maneuver Speed.

I leave out the terms and stick with what it is: the highest IAS at which the plane can
hold the fastest circle possible. If you come into a flat turn any faster then you will
slow down in the turn and if you come in any slower you will get a slower turn. There is
a groove you can run at that speed where if you just hold that speed and loosen up on the
stick any time you get slower (the real magic right there) then you get your best turn.

Of course if you fly mainly in the vertical you won't be using the magic numbers but hey
some guys just have to flat turn.

Anyone know of a WWII fighter that could maintain 4+ G's in a flat turn?

Sustained flat turn speed, whatever, is found on E/M charts as the Ps0 curve. The high
point of that curve is at the desired speed.

We have an excellent source of this infoformation thanks to Oleg Maddox and Youss cooperating
(where did Youss get the AI testing tool?) and the outcome ===> Youss' IL2 Compare 4.07m!
The curve on the Fan Plot is the Ps0 curve. Forget the accelerated stall line, you will
know when you are at edge of stall, the best turn speed is less easily apparent yet here
at least for those who fly in best trim and coordination and engine control is the magic
numbers. A better view is the Turn By Speed Plot, look for the speed at the lowest part
of the curve and there is the magic speed. Just remember always that if you fly it less
than perfectly your results will be likewise less than perfect.

The need for best trim and rudder use and engine control are things that were not as
accurately modelled in past sims as now or to the degree we have now they were not modelled
at all so no you didn't have to do in sims before and won't find advice on old sims for,
all you had to do THEN was steer and jam full throttle on many.

Since 4.0x we have to do more than PF, 3.x. Regard PF as one of those older sims.
FB 1.x series was really a big jump in modelling from original IL2 sim in the same regard.
How many posts were in threads about some kind of 'auto rudder' and the effect of that on
holding a plane level in stalls? Real pilots and instructors gave input to that yet they
somehow did not consider it a major problem in a combat flight sim yet it did get 'fixed'.

I do wonder if some of the 1946 change gave back some yaw stability? Is it easier to stay
out of slip, I'm not sure at all.

Anyhow please note the progression in flight modelling as the progression in how much PC
it takes to do while having the combat environment as well. There are limits to how much
as just how accurate any might be. So please be sane when pointing out details and saying
this or that little thing may not be perfect as your panties, okay? The things that counted
in history are well within reason while things that were not done are maybe not so. Should
we crash the planes also and judge if the wreckage in historic???

WWMaxGunz
01-21-2007, 04:10 PM
Back years ago I had heard of these 'magic numbers' that the communities of two online
games gathered and circulated between virtual pilots 'in the know'.

They called the magic numbers Corner Speed. They were GOLD.

However, other pilots more in the know told and showed me that the term Corner Speed was
false. The numbers gathered could be more accurately called Sustained Corner Speed or I
think another term is Maneuver Speed.

I leave out the terms and stick with what it is: the highest IAS at which the plane can
hold the fastest circle possible. If you come into a flat turn any faster then you will
slow down in the turn and if you come in any slower you will get a slower turn. There is
a groove you can run at that speed where if you just hold that speed and loosen up on the
stick any time you get slower (the real magic right there) then you get your best turn.

Of course if you fly mainly in the vertical you won't be using the magic numbers but hey
some guys just have to flat turn.

Anyone know of a WWII fighter that could maintain 4+ G's in a flat turn?

Sustained flat turn speed, whatever, is found on E/M charts as the Ps0 curve. The high
point of that curve is at the desired speed.

We have an excellent source of this infoformation thanks to Oleg Maddox and Youss cooperating
(where did Youss get the AI testing tool?) and the outcome ===> Youss' IL2 Compare 4.07m!
The curve on the Fan Plot is the Ps0 curve. Forget the accelerated stall line, you will
know when you are at edge of stall, the best turn speed is less easily apparent yet here
at least for those who fly in best trim and coordination and engine control is the magic
numbers. A better view is the Turn By Speed Plot, look for the speed at the lowest part
of the curve and there is the magic speed. Just remember always that if you fly it less
than perfectly your results will be likewise less than perfect.

The need for best trim and rudder use and engine control are things that were not as
accurately modelled in past sims as now or to the degree we have now they were not modelled
at all so no you didn't have to do in sims before and won't find advice on old sims for,
all you had to do THEN was steer and jam full throttle on many.

Since 4.0x we have to do more than PF, 3.x. Regard PF as one of those older sims.
FB 1.x series was really a big jump in modelling from original IL2 sim in the same regard.
How many posts were in threads about some kind of 'auto rudder' and the effect of that on
holding a plane level in stalls? Real pilots and instructors gave input to that yet they
somehow did not consider it a major problem in a combat flight sim yet it did get 'fixed'.

I do wonder if some of the 1946 change gave back some yaw stability? Is it easier to stay
out of slip, I'm not sure at all.

Anyhow please note the progression in flight modelling as the progression in how much PC
it takes to do while having the combat environment as well. There are limits to how much
as just how accurate any might be. So please be sane when pointing out details and saying
this or that little thing may not be perfect as your panties, okay? The things that counted
in history are well within reason while things that were not done are maybe not so. Should
we crash the planes also and judge if the wreckage in historic???