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View Full Version : Zeke (A6M2, A6M3) 4.02m....what's happened?



269GA-Veltro
10-26-2005, 11:11 AM
I've flew it yesterday for the first time in VOW2 after the realese of the 4.02m, A6M3 vs P38J.....
It seems to be a total different aicraft now.
I've never flew a real Zero so...i can't say it's wrong or not, but the roll rate seems to be innatural....too much slow, really too much slow...

JG53Frankyboy
10-26-2005, 12:09 PM
well, the US Army planes in game are far superior to the A6Ms !
the good ore better lethal reputation that these nippon fighters got in the first months of the pacific war ......... well, these allied pilots and their aircombat tactics must have been the worst ever ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the Zero got stiffed controls in reality at higher speeds - but these speed limits are very low in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

stay below 2500m and above stay below 300km/h IAS - otherwise you are flying a bus.

and against a well flown P-38 , a Zero will never have a chnce ! also against P-47 .

Daiichidoku
10-26-2005, 12:40 PM
havent tried M2 or M3 4.02 yet...

but in an arcade df server, at least, an M3 has no problems operating sucessfully, even well over 8000meters...i have no hesitation following any other type up there (in arcade df server, i said, rememberhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

and franky, keep it below 1000m, or ABOVE 3600m, that 2nd stage REALLY helps the zero then

Zyzbot
10-26-2005, 12:49 PM
Comments from Japanes ace Saburo Sakai:

€œ(On the Zero)
During the war, I was convinced the Zero Model 21 was the best fighter plane anywhere. It was always number one with me. Then a few years ago, at Champlin, I had the chance to fly in a Mustang and take the controls for a while. What an incredible plane! It could do anything the Zero could, and many things the Zero can't, like a high-speed, spiraling dive. In the Zero, the stick would be too heavy to control the plane at those speeds. The Mustang's number one with me now, and I'm afraid the Zero's number two!€

(On the Zero's maneuverability)
Oh yes, the Zero was incredibly maneuverable, but not over about 250 mph. Above that speed, the stick just gets too heavy because the plane's control surfaces are so huge. You've seen those films of kamikaze plunging straight down into the water far from any U.S. ships, right? The kids in those planes probably put their planes into a dive way too early, and before they realized their mistake, they had too much speed built up to pull out of their dive. They probably died pulling desperately on the stick with all their strength. When I coached those kids [kamikaze pilots], I'd tell them, "If you've gotta die, you at least want to hit your target, right? If so, then go in low, skimming the water. Don't dive on your target. You lose control in a dive. You risk getting picked off by a fighter, but you've got better chance of hitting your target."

http://www.danford.net/sakai.htm

VW-IceFire
10-26-2005, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
I've flew it yesterday for the first time in VOW2 after the realese of the 4.02m, A6M3 vs P38J.....
It seems to be a total different aicraft now.
I've never flew a real Zero so...i can't say it's wrong or not, but the roll rate seems to be innatural....too much slow, really too much slow...
I flew a A6M5c for a while the other night and it was about the same as before. Actually the roll was faster.

The Zero was never good at rolling and the later models rectified this with shorter span wings and smaller ailerons. But the early models were very slow at rolling...the worst of all on the NACA chart (just under the Typhoon).

JG53Frankyboy
10-26-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Zyzbot:
.......(On the Zero's maneuverability)
Oh yes, the Zero was incredibly maneuverable, but not over about 250 mph. Above that speed, the stick just gets too heavy because the plane's control surfaces are so huge. ...

well, 250mph , thats ~400km/h - the Zero in game is loosing its manouverability i "little" bit earlier !

anarchy52
10-26-2005, 03:33 PM
I just flew an M3 in VOW, on the deck with WEP and 120% mix I couldn't make it past 410 km/h IAS. IIRC it should achieve around 470. Russian bi-planes leave Zero in dust.

funny

NorrisMcWhirter
10-26-2005, 03:45 PM
Sounds like Warclouds have been running Pacific theatre scenarios http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

Daiichidoku
10-26-2005, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
I just flew an M3 in VOW, on the deck with WEP and 120% mix I couldn't make it past 410 km/h IAS. IIRC it should achieve around 470. Russian bi-planes leave Zero in dust.

funny


the long-awaited revenge for tsushima, 1904 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

ImpStarDuece
10-26-2005, 03:52 PM
The A5M has always rolled like it has two fat men hanging off the outer wing. With alierons that have been charitably compared to "barn doors", that shouldn't really be suprising.

I have no problems out turning anything up to about 375-380 kph. Beyond about 400 kph though I can't really hope to stick with anything in close.

Just one more observation. The peak loss to kill ratio for the Zero was about 2.5:1 in mid-1942, mostly over P-40s and P-39s. After this US tactics altered sufficiently enough to neutralise the Zeke's advantages. By the end of the war it had a loss rate of close to 10 to 1.

Chuck_Older
10-26-2005, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by 269GA-Veltro:
I've flew it yesterday for the first time in VOW2 after the realese of the 4.02m, A6M3 vs P38J.....
It seems to be a total different aicraft now.
I've never flew a real Zero so...i can't say it's wrong or not, but the roll rate seems to be innatural....too much slow, really too much slow...


At what speed is the roll too slow?

A small group of A6ms was restored and reveiwed recently in a magazine I get, Warbirds International


These A6Ms were not simply repaired and flown. The restoration team went so far as to have the aluminum alloys tested to acheive the same structural integrity of the originals, and even used original (yes, really real original, hidden from US-occupying forces) technical drawings, thouands of them, in a form of Japanese not used since the war, to recreate these aircraft. The prime Minister of Japan may, or may not have, had something to do with the location and use of the drawings. They were re- made in the former Soviet Union, so even the thickness of materials used were metric, not fractional

These planes are absolutely what you could expect from a war-period A6M, except with no wing cannon

The test pilot reports a roll speed of approximately 60* per second at half aileron deflection at 205 kts- because more aileron deflection wasn't possible at that speed


So take airspeed into account when rolling the Zero. The Zero rolled well compared to it's adversaries. This doesn't necessarily mean the Zero could out-roll everything. The I-16, for example, should produce a roll best described as "violent"

ImpStarDuece
10-26-2005, 04:47 PM
Sea level speeds for various A6Ms

Testing criteria; Crimea, Hdg 180, 10m alt, full fuel, radiators closed, 120% mixture, trimmerd to as close as level as I could get it, boost used where available

A6M2 - 435 kph
A6M2-21 - 434 kph
A6M3 - 470 kph (461 without boost)
A6M5 - 474 kph (460 without boost)
A6M5a - 471 kph (461 without boost)
A6M7-62 - 470 kph (462 without boost)

p1ngu666
10-26-2005, 05:05 PM
i find i haveto keep using combat flaps to get it to turn as well as i need http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

the japanease planes really are a disapointment tbh, maybe the ki43 and betty arent. but then uve got the gunsite and the really really annoying snaping framing of the rear turret on the betty.

ki61/100 feel really slugish, havent flown a ki84 in awhile, dont think its so uber now. btw the japanease thought the ki100 was better than the ki84 in flying chacteristics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

incidently, most arcade servers have the a6m5c as the only zero, which was the worst zero ever made...
so u got the worst zero, facing off to the "best" of every other plane type. this mornin on afj server, there was 6(SIX!) la7-3x20 on the other team, and daii in a p38 late and someone else in something..

Daiichidoku
10-26-2005, 05:52 PM
some ppl who dont fly a certain type simply dont know what is good, or better...just go by which one is last for type on list, latest by year, or has the highest serial or mark number

i think the c is better than the b, as the c has WM inj

personally, i prefer the M3 and think of it as the best zero

i also hate how few servers ever have the ki-61, and even then (in a late-war set)will often put in the "otsu", probably for the reasons above, as it is the last 61 on the list...ignoring that the otsu is 43, and the "hei" is 44...and has the upgraded guns

p1ngu666
10-26-2005, 07:00 PM
yeah, but the water injection didnt really help the power.

the 5b was the best zero

1x7.7mm
1x 12.7mm
2x 20mm

some armour and fuel tank protection

imo i like the 5a the best, as the b is missing a gun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

KIMURA
10-27-2005, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
personally, i prefer the M3 and think of it as the best zero

That's the experience I made with 4.02 also. Especially the Model 32 performs better vs USAAF/USN stuff than the later Model 52 does. The only negative points of the Model 32 are the weaker Typ 99-I guns and the smaller ammo store of the guns. FM seems overall undermodelled on all PF-Zeros.(and Ki-61-I too) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I also ask myself, why in heaven's sake should my wings of my Zero break off if the Cat I shot crashs into water, like it does in PF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

p1ngu666
10-27-2005, 03:27 AM
the wings of the zero where actully fairely strong, think there one piece aswell. mainwheels connect to the spar too, for strength http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WTE_Ibis
10-27-2005, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older


So take airspeed into account when rolling the Zero. The Zero rolled well compared to it's adversaries. This doesn't necessarily mean the Zero could out-roll everything. The I-16, for example, should produce a roll best described as "violent"


I've watched half a dozen I-16s perform, didn't take much notice of roll rate but will check it out next April.
Cheers.
Ibis.

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