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View Full Version : Wings folding in flight really possible?



Skarphol
10-28-2004, 02:50 AM
Hi!

I was doing some carrierpractice with the Seafire last night, when I decided to fold the wings in flight, just to see what happened.
I started to fold the wings at ca. 300 kph, at an height of maybe 800 meters. The wings folded neatly togetgher, and didn't stop until they where fully folded. My plane started a steep descent, and spun slowly to the right. Then I started to exstend the wings again, and they unfolded again, giving me back full control of the plane at ca. 100m asl.

Could this have been possible in real life? Is there some sort of mechanism that inhibit wing-folding in mid air, as it is with the landing gear retraction when the plane is standing on the ground?

Skarphol

Yskonyn23
10-28-2004, 03:10 AM
I am sure there is a protection system, in fact I even think you cannot fold the wings from within the cockpit alone. If memory serves me right, if the wings are unfolded at the deck (with the help of an engineer) they can only be folded again with the same help from the engineer, but I could be wrong here.

SeaFireLIV
10-28-2004, 05:45 AM
To me, and these are just my thoughts, I always believed that wing-folding, while probably needing the pilot to activate them was always done using the ground crew (ground crew to make sure everything`s unfolded and locked, etc). And I`m pretty certian that you could not fold the wings in mid-flight either. I mean why would you leave the aircraft with the ability to fold its wings in flight? Chances are you had to land and the ground crew would unlock them and help with refolding the wings.

I`m sure there are guys in the know who will enlighten us.

Cajun76
10-28-2004, 06:09 AM
I work on the C-130 Hercules aircraft, namely the turboprop engines. The throttles have a flight idle gate. As you advance the throttles to flight idle, the sticks drop down about an inch and then proceed forward all the way to Takeoff power. Comming back, they must be manually lifted to clear the flight idle position, so that the pilot cannot accidently pull the throttle back too far, like into reverse blade angles at 275 knots. Bad things happan when you do this, like engines and wings departing the aircraft with wild abandon. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

A pilot was talking to a fellow engine troop. He was convinced there had to be something else that would prevent someone from pulling the throttles back in flight. Some system, like the touchdown relay, which only allows certain things to operate when the gear (plane) is supported on the ground. He seemed to be getting a little upset, like the mechanic knew, but didn't want to tell him.

"I mean, c'mon, there's got to be something in the throttle system that will keep me from just lifting those throttles over the gate and possibly killing us all." (5 crew, standard)

"Well, yes there is sir..."

"And that would be?"

"Common sense, and the will to live, sir."



While some planes have automatic folding wings (saw a Corsair at an airshow do it) I don't see any RL pilot ever trying it. Even if you manage to unset the locks in midair by unloading the wings in a negative dive or something, making them unfold would be impossible, imo.

RBJ_fan_1138
10-28-2004, 06:09 AM
Here I am!

And in real life the Wing Fold mechanism is mapped to a slider, for most effective BnZ tactics. Wing fold in flight reduces drag and causes rapid increase in airspeed, which is perfect for BnZ attacks.

If a real pilot could rapidly descend by folding wings in flight, then he would, to get every possible combat advantage. Therefore it is unrealistic not to fold wings in flight.

I use the wing fold online all the time, one time I was fighting the entire Blitzpig squadron alone in a Ki-43a and I was always using the wing fold to get a unique advantage. I shot them all down three times over without loss.

I am the mouthpiece of the exiled RBJ!

RBJ_fan_1138
10-28-2004, 06:10 AM
Oh yes: And wing fold should be put on a slider, for extra realism.

S 8
10-28-2004, 06:23 AM
My wings just brake off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

RobertNighthawk
10-28-2004, 07:19 AM
OMG http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The mad RBJ at the peep show avatar is too unkind a visual.

beepboop
10-28-2004, 07:36 AM
You can't fold your wings in mid-flight in PF. Well you CAN, but they won't be attached to your plane for very much longer.

I do recall that in CFS2 you could fold and unfold your wings whilst airborne, and suffered only complete loss of lift as a result.

Speaking of folding wings, does anyone remember the "Flapping Spitfire" that you could unlock in Janes World War II Fighters? Man that was hilarious....

VF-19
10-28-2004, 07:45 AM
Generally, wing folding in mid-air is a bad thing, unless you're flying in a Crusader. When the wings fold, you still have enough of the wing left, AND control surfaces to get your butt on the ground. There are several pictures out there that show a Crusader off the ground with it's wings folded.

mortoma
10-28-2004, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
I work on the C-130 Hercules aircraft, namely the turboprop engines. The throttles have a flight idle gate. As you advance the throttles to flight idle, the sticks drop down about an inch and then proceed forward all the way to Takeoff power. Comming back, they must be manually lifted to clear the flight idle position, so that the pilot cannot accidently pull the throttle back too far, like into reverse blade angles at 275 knots. Bad things happan when you do this, like engines and wings departing the aircraft with wild abandon. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

A pilot was talking to a fellow engine troop. He was convinced there had to be something else that would prevent someone from pulling the throttles back in flight. Some system, like the touchdown relay, which only allows certain things to operate when the gear (plane) is supported on the ground. He seemed to be getting a little upset, like the mechanic knew, but didn't want to tell him.

"I mean, c'mon, there's got to be something in the throttle system that will keep me from just lifting those throttles over the gate and possibly killing us all." (5 crew, standard)

"Well, yes there is sir..."

"And that would be?"

"Common sense, and the will to live, sir."



While some planes have automatic folding wings (saw a Corsair at an airshow do it) I don't see any RL pilot ever trying it. Even if you manage to unset the locks in midair by unloading the wings in a negative dive or something, making them unfold would be impossible, imo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Some jets had engines that were actually meant to be reversed in flight. Prolly bad idea in a prop but the old classic airliner, the DC-8, was approved for pilots to reverse thrust on the number 2 and 3 engines ( the inner ones ). This was due to the fact that early McDonnell-Douglas jets did not have spoilers or airbrakes. So they tested and approved ( FAA ) the use of thrust reversers in flight so they could slow her down some.

jimmie_T
10-28-2004, 07:55 AM
Just for a moment, just, but I kinda thought RBJ actually would *experiment* the slider... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But for his credit, I loved him! Good fella, miss you the ACE http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (seriouly, in many ways, he was pretty good)

RobertNighthawk
10-28-2004, 08:18 AM
He nonetheless scares small children.

horseback
10-28-2004, 08:43 AM
Wildcats and Hellcats had manually folding wings, so unless the pilot unlocked them & got out and folded them, there would be no danger of folding them in flight (although considering how the Cat's wings folded back, it would make for a cool looking dive).

cheers

horseback

ddsflyer
10-28-2004, 09:25 AM
All Grumman US Navy WWII carrier aircraft, whether they had manual or powered wing folding, required deck personnel to insert a rather large pin in the mechanism to lock it once the wings were extended. The wings could not then be folded until the pin was later removed. I believe the Corsair was the first to dispense with the pin becxause its wings folded upward rather than aft.

Yskonyn23
10-28-2004, 09:35 AM
You're saying 'in flight wing folding' is a real life tactic?
I find that hard to believe because folding your wings would completely destroy the aerodynamics. The plane will become uncontrollable.

UK_Jackal
10-28-2004, 10:00 AM
When at Duxford this year, I thought that I'd seen the SeaFury taxing in with her wings folded. I'm not entirely sure, doto someones big head in the way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Vortex_uk
10-28-2004, 11:02 AM
Really strange,few pics of a FM-2 folding then extending...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Vortex_uk/WingFold1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Vortex_uk/WingFold2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Vortex_uk/WingFold3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Vortex_uk/WingFold4.jpg

VFA-195 Snacky
10-28-2004, 11:19 AM
Yeah but just remember that's not a bug, it was designed that way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Some like the Avenger were hydraulic and some were by hand, none could be folded or extended in flight.
The fact that you can still control the aircraft with the wings folded is what humors me in PF.lol

I can see it now "Oh my gawd what a noob, he folded his wings to keep from getting hit and accelerated away from me in a dive. oh my gawd you noob" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG301_nils
10-28-2004, 11:30 AM
I read an article a few years ago in "Aeroplane Monthly"(I think), where a pilot took off and flew a F4-U with it wings folded up! Amazingly it all went quite well, and he managed to land safe again. I´ll check if I can find it again if anyone´s interested....
-nils-

JG301_HP
10-28-2004, 11:33 AM
Hi,

When I visited an air show in Germany this year, there was a Corsair folding and unfolding it's wings while taxiing past us.

BuzzU
10-28-2004, 11:37 AM
Please make it stop!

I hope Oleg fixes this. Make wing fold only work at 0 mph.

Freycinet
10-28-2004, 12:23 PM
who said wing-folding isn't used in flight?... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/gallery/albums/flight_general/13p_feather.jpg

Philipscdrw
10-28-2004, 01:55 PM
Yep - there's a new UAV out (or at least at concept/mockup stage) which has in-flight folding wings. They kinda fold like the Seafire. It gives better high speed cruise.

Yep, in-flight wing fold is pretty ridiculous, but also great fun if you can pull it off. I usually pull up into a vertical climb, open the canopy (for a quick getaway when things start to fall off) and cut throttle, then fold wings. Then try and get them open again before intersecting with the y=0 plane, or becoming a propelled fuel bomb. And that's when the open canopy is useful!

Taylortony
10-28-2004, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UK_Jackal:
When at Duxford this year, I thought that I'd seen the SeaFury taxing in with her wings folded. I'm not entirely sure, doto someones big head in the way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it will have squat switches on the undercarriage that prevent certain systems operating with weight off the wheels, when taxying the weight is on the switch is closed and you can operate systems you cannot in flight

adlabs6
10-28-2004, 04:39 PM
Clearly we are seeing the edge of the IL2 engine being crossed with this issue. The question is, can any advantage be gained through exploiting this during combat in PF? If there is something to be expoited, it will most definately show up soon.

BTW, speaking of issues with the IL2 engine, Wasn't the P-38 torque roll a similar problem? Does PF make any changes to this?

darkhorizon11
10-28-2004, 05:01 PM
I'm sure it depends per aircraft whether or not it can be done with or without an engineer. I suppose it could be possible if an engineer isn't required but I'm sure there were/are safeguards in the plane that would stop the pilot from accidently unfolding them although I wouldn't be surprised if it happened anyway. Unfolding them in flight would probably be impossible because of the forces it would take to overcome the airflow rushing by the wings as that come back to a forward and locked position.

VF-29_Sandman
10-28-2004, 05:08 PM
fair warning: if any1 in vf-29's airspace is found doing this, out the door they go....permanently. advise u have the wingfold key mapped to a double keystroke. there will be no warning. instant ban on sight. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Korbelz
10-28-2004, 06:15 PM
who cares..really? being able to fold wings in flight is FUN!!! please don't whine about it and make oleg take it away.
i can't wait till i'm on-line and have a enemy on my six then just climb a bit and fold up the wings :-) lol

WTE_Galway
10-28-2004, 06:19 PM
you would present a much smaller target profile with wings folded

could also be handier in landings .. fold the wings as you come in and you not only save time getting below deck but reduce the risk of accidently clipping the superstructure or parked aircraft

FI.Spitsfire
10-28-2004, 06:28 PM
you can't fold your wings at any sort of airspeed. They just brake off, only at slow speeds can you achieve the whole fold+unfold trick so it will more likly get you killed rather than help you out lol

owlwatcher
10-28-2004, 07:38 PM
Any chance of adding (rockets to assist take off boosters) and use while the wings are folded?

SkyChimp
10-28-2004, 08:47 PM
The Seafire had manually folding wings, IIRC. So doing it in midair would be a neat trick.

BTW, does that Wildcat dive faster with folded wings? Looks like a falcon!

Cajun76
10-29-2004, 07:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Some jets had engines that were actually meant to be reversed in flight. Prolly bad idea in a prop but the old classic airliner, the DC-8, was approved for pilots to reverse thrust on the number 2 and 3 engines ( the inner ones ). This was due to the fact that early McDonnell-Douglas jets did not have spoilers or airbrakes. So they tested and approved ( FAA ) the use of thrust reversers in flight so they could slow her down some. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I know they go to reverse angles when wheels are down and below a certain speed, but doing it at high speed is almost certain catastrophe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

IIRC, when they were expirementing with landing C-130's on a carrier, they got to the point where the LSO would have them start to drag the throttles back about 4 feet off the deck. Whether they made it to reverse blade angles in the air, I can't tell.

Vids at the bottom. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://www.cgaux.com/C-130carrierlanding.htm

bazzaah2
10-29-2004, 07:52 AM
what is with wings anyway? They only seem to cause problems.

You're much better off without them and pressing the fold wings button in flight is a sure fire way to deal with the problem without any external assistance.

Mind you if you have a tricky bogie on your six then it's a good way to take evasive action, even if it's terminal.