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mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 11:33 AM
I just got back into playing after 1946 was released. I am training against various AI aircraft in the QMB, Prop based aircraft I am doing fine, but with jets, no matter what jet at max throttle i can only get anywhere between 280-350km/h no matter what altitude and thats with flaps in combat. AI planes just zoom right over me. What am I doing wrong and how can i get up to the max speed of these planes?

mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 11:33 AM
I just got back into playing after 1946 was released. I am training against various AI aircraft in the QMB, Prop based aircraft I am doing fine, but with jets, no matter what jet at max throttle i can only get anywhere between 280-350km/h no matter what altitude and thats with flaps in combat. AI planes just zoom right over me. What am I doing wrong and how can i get up to the max speed of these planes?

FluffyDucks2
04-02-2007, 11:36 AM
Why are you using flaps in combat in a jet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 11:39 AM
just thought it would help in anyway.

flox
04-02-2007, 12:00 PM
Combat flaps really should only be used (momentarily) to avoid a stall, usually while riding the edge of a stall in a sustained turn. (You could also use them at the top of a climb or a loop if you have bled off most of your speed, but I don't recommend that since you really don't want to be going that slow in a jet anyway).

If you do need to use combat flaps, do so sparingly and only for a few seconds at a time. Flaps will drain precious speed and you risk jamming them in the down position if you are flying too fast.

Generally speaking, jets aren't well-suited for turn-fighting anyway (a possible exception would be when fighting against similarly-matched jets).

Regarding speed: I don't fly the jets very often, but one of the slowest is the Ta-183, particularly at low altitudes. I've heard that it can reach fairly high speeds at high altitues, but if you're on the deck that bird can be a real dog.

Klemm.co
04-02-2007, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flox:
Regarding speed: I don't fly the jets very often, but one of the slowest is the Ta-183, particularly at low altitudes. I've heard that it can reach fairly high speeds at high altitues, but if you're on the deck that bird can be a real dog. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats not true. At least in 4.071, i cant speak for 4.08 because i didnt play it that much yet.

But anyway, I managed to rip off my wing in level flight on the Moscow winter map on the deck. I had 50% fuel or so and just kept on acellerating. The wings are pretty weak actually. They rip off when going over 1100kph indicated or in somewhat high-g manouvers.

It is a Focke-Wulf after all. Get it up to speed, keep it there and dont turn so much.
Astonishing armament, too.

Stackhouse25th
04-02-2007, 01:21 PM
sigh, shows how much you guys know about aerodynamics.


flaps add drag, but also add lift. it will reduce stall speed, but if you're getting close to stall in a jet then you're already shot down.

mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 02:06 PM
I dont get it, I was just testing in the Mig9, I let the Auto Pilot fly and it got to 500km/h easy, when i switched it off, i struggled to keep it above 360.. what am i missing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif?

mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by mrkidkill:
I dont get it, I was just testing in the Mig9, I let the Auto Pilot fly and it got to 500km/h easy, when i switched it off, i struggled to keep it above 360 goingas level as i could. with 100%power.. what am i missing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif?

Jaws2002
04-02-2007, 02:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flox:
Regarding speed: I don't fly the jets very often, but one of the slowest is the Ta-183, particularly at low altitudes. I've heard that it can reach fairly high speeds at high altitues, but if you're on the deck that bird can be a real dog. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ta 183 can completely dominate all the jets in the game. Is one of the fastest out there. all you have to do is FLY FAST. You don't climb in jets at 300km/h you do it at 650km/h.
The Ta-183 is a monster. Fly it all the time above 650 km/h and not much cam touch you. the only planes out there that are clearly better as the He-162's. Even over those the TA has a clear advantage you can abuse the throttle as much as you want whitout burning the engine or getting a flameout.

Jaws2002
04-02-2007, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mrkidkill:
I dont get it, I was just testing in the Mig9, I let the Auto Pilot fly and it got to 500km/h easy, when i switched it off, i struggled to keep it above 360.. what am i missing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have some time right now. If you want i could go online and help you get the Mig-9 to 900+km/h.
Do you have 30 minutes?

mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 02:19 PM
yes i do

Jaws2002
04-02-2007, 02:20 PM
I'll be in the HyperLobby. look for -=FA=-Jaws

Jaws2002
04-02-2007, 02:31 PM
Do you have hyperlobby client?

if not get it from here:
http://hyperfighter.sk/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=8

download it and run it. when you log in forst time you'll have to show the path to the game exe and then you connect to it.

XyZspineZyX
04-02-2007, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mrkidkill:
Originally posted by mrkidkill:
I dont get it, I was just testing in the Mig9, I let the Auto Pilot fly and it got to 500km/h easy, when i switched it off, i struggled to keep it above 360 goingas level as i could. with 100%power.. what am i missing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

500 kph is only 311 mph

In order to do a speed test, you must at the very least ensure you are flying straight and level. Check your vertical speed indicator, and your turn and bank indicator for this. (In this sim, the Crimea map is the one with closest to the "mean" air temperature conditions, and speeds can be compared to real figures at sea level, then contrasted. About a 5% error is reported as being present. Significant, if one plane shows a 5% reduction, and another a 5% gain, which would mean a 40 mph difference if 400mph "real life" top speeds were listed for both planes at sea level- one would be going 380 mph, the other 420 mph)

Next, the top speed of any aircraft is not the same at all altitudes. there is a misconception that top speed means top speed at any height. Each aircraft has a best altitude for fastest speed

These two things are good to start with

A third factor to consider is Indicated Air Speed (IAS) and True Air Speed (TAS). The HUD gives IAS. TAS is your real speed, IAS is what the gauges read

IAS is something that needs to be corrected for, and two variables are present:

outside air temperature, and altitude

An example of IAS versus TAS:

At 15,000 feet, 300 mph indicated at 2% correction for outside air temperature is roughly 390 mph. 90 mph is a big difference http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cippacometa
04-02-2007, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mrkidkill:
I just got back into playing after 1946 was released. I am training against various AI aircraft in the QMB, Prop based aircraft I am doing fine, but with jets, no matter what jet at max throttle i can only get anywhere between 280-350km/h no matter what altitude and thats with flaps in combat. AI planes just zoom right over me. What am I doing wrong and how can i get up to the max speed of these planes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mrkidkill, you maybe need to patch the game with 4.08m update. In the out-of the box game, some jets and especially Ta-183 just don't run.

Corrections:

-Updated the J2M5 Artificial Horizon;
-Modified the Ta-183 Variometer;
-Updated the MiG-3 Landing Gear Indicator;
-Corrected the brakes animation in the LaGG-3 and Yak-1 / Yak-7;
-Updated weapons and ammunition types on the He-162C/D, Yak-15, N1K2-Ja, P-63C, CR.42;
-Modified the retraction of the tailwheel on the N1K2-Ja;
-Corrected the brakes on the N1K;
-Updated the Il-10 Fuel level indicator;
-Updated the trigger animation on the Ki-43-IIKai, N1K2-Ja;
-Modified instrument panel damage on the Ta-183;
-Updated rudder animation on the Lerche-III;
-Updated the Yak-15 compass;
-Modified the canopy framework on the N1K2-Ja, both internally and externally;
-Corrected the armored seat back on the MiG-13 and I-250;
-Modified the FAB-1000 bomb position in the A-20C bomb bay;
-Updated trimmer indicators on the J2M5;
-Updated trimmer indicators and controls on the Ar-234B;
-Modified damage model of the Ki-27 wings;
-Corrected distances in the K-14 gun sight;
-Corrected the J2M5's altimeter;
-Updated the flap sounds on the Pe-2 series;
-Changed Il-10 rear gunner compartment sounds to an "enclosed cabin" type;
-Corrected Ki-27 flap sounds;
-Decreased the volume of certain ground-based guns as heard in the cockpit;
-Modified Ta-183's AI routines;
<span class="ev_code_RED">-Changed parameters for the Ta-183, Me-262HG-II, Lerche-III, Bf-109F-2, MiG-13/I-250, Yak-3R;</span>
-Updated Object Viewer data for the Yak-3R and A-20C;
-Modified the MG42;
-Updated the in-game credits;
-Fixed errors in loadout names for certain planes;
-Fixed the A-20C crew error;
-Updated the canopy damage model on the MiG-9;
-Fixed the MiG-9 artificial horizon;
-Modified the engine shut-down parameters at low altitude for the MiG-9 (I-300);
-Fixed the ground clipping on MiG-9's landing gear;
-Updated animations for the landing gear, flap and gear levers, bank indicator, and pylons on the Ta-183;
-Fixed Lerche-III fuel level indicator;
-Il-10's ShKAS ammo load set to 2x750;
-Removed the duplicated loadouts on the I-153P;
-Fixed tracer colors on the Ki-43 and Ki-61;
-Removed the GM-1 from the Ta-152C (which now only has the MW-50);
-Updated the engine temperature parameters on the Tempest V;
-Modified an airfield in Burma;
-Fixed textures in the following cockpits: A-20C; Ar-234; Il-10; MiG-9; Ta-183; Yak-15; Yak-3R; Pe-2 84th Series;
-Modified air-to-air AI on the Ar-234;
-Fixed the bug when hits on the Ar-234's #1 engine set #2 on fire;
-Modified G4M1 flight model;
-Protected fuel tanks on the J2M and La-5;
-Modified the propeller on the N1K2-Ja;
-Fixed the altitude indicator on The J2M5;
-Fixed the landing gear indicator on the He-162.


And keep your flaps ONLY for landing and take-off. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jaws2002
04-02-2007, 03:50 PM
I think he'll be ok now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-02-2007, 03:53 PM
No, there are no charts or graphs yet!

flox
04-02-2007, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klemm.co:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flox:
Regarding speed: I don't fly the jets very often, but one of the slowest is the Ta-183, particularly at low altitudes. I've heard that it can reach fairly high speeds at high altitues, but if you're on the deck that bird can be a real dog. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats not true. At least in 4.071, i cant speak for 4.08 because i didnt play it that much yet.

But anyway, I managed to rip off my wing in level flight on the Moscow winter map on the deck. I had 50% fuel or so and just kept on acellerating. The wings are pretty weak actually. They rip off when going over 1100kph indicated or in somewhat high-g manouvers.

It is a Focke-Wulf after all. Get it up to speed, keep it there and dont turn so much.
Astonishing armament, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It was sure true in 4.07, which was the last time I flew that FW. It was very slow to accelerate. And no, I didn't do speed tests in it. Just a casual observation compared to the other jets I flew online when 4.07 was new.

arjisme
04-02-2007, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I think he'll be ok now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Would be interesting to hear back from him what he was doing/is doing differently to get the speed he expects.

VW-IceFire
04-02-2007, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mrkidkill:
Originally posted by mrkidkill:
I dont get it, I was just testing in the Mig9, I let the Auto Pilot fly and it got to 500km/h easy, when i switched it off, i struggled to keep it above 360 goingas level as i could. with 100%power.. what am i missing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You need to learn how to trim the plane properly. That will probably help. Once you start to maneuver you start to bleed speed. Especially in the jets which are designed to go fast...not to turn well. The best turning jet is probably the YP-80 or the Go-229 but the 229 is very slow to accelerate to top speed.

In a jet battle you should not be focused on a turn battle but very slow gentle turns with very sharp maneuvers to gain a shot at the last minute. Usually shooting opportunities are down to half a second in a jet quite often...thats why most of them have incredible firepower as the first hit will hopefully cripple the target.

mrkidkill
04-02-2007, 08:47 PM
I have been able to get the jets up to the 600&700's now but i just need to figure out how to maintain that speed in turns during combat, thank you for all the help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
04-02-2007, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mrkidkill:
I have been able to get the jets up to the 600&700's now but i just need to figure out how to maintain that speed in turns during combat, thank you for all the help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just keep the turns nice and wide most of the time. Bleed your speed only when you need it. I usually combine a sharper turn in a jet with a shallow dive to help a bit. Its a different style of combat...you can apply this to late war types like the Corsair, Tempest, Thunderbolt and other prop fighters but its even more extreme with the jets.

JR_Greenhorn
04-02-2007, 09:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
No, there are no charts or graphs yet! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Perhaps that's the best thing about the "what-if" planes?

Jaws2002
04-02-2007, 10:17 PM
Fly like you did this afternoon. Smooth and fast.
In jets is important to be smooth in turns because the early jets have really bad thrust to weight ratio and bleed speed really fast.

After you take off, take your time to get some altitude.
Climb away from the action at high speed (600+ km/h). This early jets are way more efficient at high speed. They will produce a lot more thrust at 700km/h then at 350km/h and will not over heat.
So try to keep your speed up, specially when you are in combat zone or close to enemy planes that have higher thrust to weight ratios. A good example is the Lerch. that thing can hang in the prop for ever but a Mig-9 Me-262HG, He-162, or a Ta-183 will leave it in the dust if is flying fast.
If you fly fast and keep your plane trimmed you are much harder to be bounced from above, since your speed is close to the break up speed of many other planes.
Also you can catch a lot of planes with the pants down when you fly fast. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Try to keep your plane trimmed all the time. When you have to push the stick to fly level you have to add some down trim. This is true in all plane not only jets. The more trimmed you are the faster you are going to fly and will take you less time to get to that speed.

A good idea would be to assign the trim (at least the elevator trim), on a weel or slider if you have free on your joystick or throttle. You can do that in the "Hotas" area of the controls.
That would make it more easy for you to adjust it as you go, and in the game trim assigned on a weel or slider reacts instantly to changes. The trim on buttons has a delay.

Just practice it and in no time it will be seconds nature. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif