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tsisqua
11-01-2004, 07:51 AM
Tsisqua On Carrier Landings:

Hello, Everyone! ~S
First off, I was in the Aces High, CFS2 squadron for quite awhile. It was one of my most enjoyable online experiences, ever. Fast Eddy, I remember the times, Bud. Watchin' me carrier land, over, and over, and over again. Gen. Danger, Sir ~S~!!! You were an inspiration to me, and you conducted yourself as a true officer in the real world should, but often doesn't. I salute you, sir! This new Pacific Fighters thingy has brought back some nice memories!

Now, I used to cheat physics in CFS2 by raising the nose of the plane, thus tilting the plane to catch the arresting cables. In CFS2, I didn't have to fight the lift created by the increased AOA; It simply wasn't modelled well. Don't get me wrong, it was great, and a great game. I played it for years (still do with my 8 year old son once in a while.). It just wasn't what I have been experiencing landing the Wildcat in Pacific Fighters!

Benji, my flight instructor, had me land that PA28 with full flaps, no flaps, no power http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif, etc. He once made me skim the runway with full flaps, with the wind, so that I could see the real difference between IAS, and my actual ground speed. He also had me take the plane up to 3,000' so that I could practice very slow full flap flight, straight and level, even though my pitch attitude was extremely nose-high. He made me bring her to the edge of stalling, and hold her there. I never got to land a tail-dragger, but . . . I know what it is like to have my CFI say: "Don't wuss' out on me now, Larry! Keep that nose up on final! You saw what happened up there! Let her sink down, rear wheels first, dammit! It's not going to stall until you make it, and I want that to be about 1 inch from touchdown!"

Ok, here goes:
I love this sim, . . . . SIM! Yes! Hell yeah, it's a good game, but it is so because because it is a very good simulation! These flight models are now tweaked better FOR LANDING than anything that has ever been on the market, IMHO. I believe that some high-speed physics has suffered a bit as a result of this tweaking , that certainly must have been done to the flight models for us to have such a great carrier landing experience. Still, the FM's at higher speed are plenty good.

I wondered, at first, why there were hardly any combat missions in the "single" folder. Everything was about getting that carrier landing down. Well, I certainly don't wonder any more. This is the most well-done project that I have had the pleasure of spending my money on, and my hat is off to Ilya, Oleg, their families, the entire 1C crew, and all of the testers, that gave up their precious time so that we could have such a beautiful simulation of flight on our machines.

The bottom line is: Keep your nose up, and use your throttle to guide you in with the tail-hook low enough to grab the cable. Don't be afraid of stalling. Take the plane up real high in QMB, and see how slow you can fly her before you try it on your landing. If you come in hot, you are going to either have a go-around, or die. Trim is your friend! I have to give the Wildcat 36 clicks up from neutral trim. That will help you to keep your nose up! Glide/sink her in. Do not, (very important. worthy of a
shout) DO NOT fly into the deck!!! You will only get frustrated, and lose interest, FAST!

These planes fly like real planes, folks, in many ways . . . Apply real world physics, and
you will succeed!

Salute!

Tsisqua

*edited for text allignment

tsisqua
11-01-2004, 02:26 PM
Bump for the now-readable post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua

Weather_Man
11-01-2004, 02:31 PM
I'm 1 for 20 in catching the wire. IT'S HARD. Yep.

I love it!!

SKULLS Virga
11-01-2004, 03:09 PM
Trim is your friend - but I am learning to love my life raft! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

PriK
11-01-2004, 04:18 PM
Carrier landings aren't as difficult as I thought they would be but are still by no means easy for the first few hours of practicing. It's still challenging even when you are pretty confident of your skills because you have to pay attention where it wasn't that necessary before!

Before PF everybody would land at blazing speeds in order to hurry up and get airborne again which has made most people lazy.

For those having a harder time, figure out where your stall speed is by doing as Tsisqua suggests and practicing flying as slow as possible. On average it will likely be around 150-160kph. Practice landing on a regular airfield at these speeds using the ending edge as your flattop.

Also, ive yourself enough distance to slow down and try to time it so you actually stall fall onto the deck in a 3-point landing. Different planes will react a bit differently.

My only complaint about the carrier landings is the incredible bounce you can get if you come in too steep then catch a wire.

tsisqua
11-01-2004, 07:55 PM
Wow! This board moves FAST! I think that this is just another tesimony to the quality of this product. I see alot of new names here, now. It looks like, in spite of the things that buggy and are going to be fixed, 1C has a HUGE hit on their hands.

Thanks for the comments, and suggestions, guys. Alot of new players are definitely going to need help with this, which is probably the most difficult aspect af a PTO sim.
Practice, practice, practice!!!!

Tsisqua

Hiriyu
11-01-2004, 09:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:

Practice, practice, practice!!!!

Tsisqua <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yessir. Thankyou sir!

!S

NTESLA
11-01-2004, 10:37 PM
With "PF" I do not know when I will find time to complete "The Few". Eitherway, carrier landing reminds me alot of when I first took off and landed from groun in "IL2"! I was a veteran from CFS2 and thought I had it all written down until I tried the most basics in "IL2" there is where I first witnessed how 'advanced' the physics were on this simulator compared to it's competition! With carrier landing is no difference! Hard and frustrating at the beginning but practice, practice and more practice will get you the 'feel' on how these birds of aluminum should land on a carrier! Great game!

madsarmy
11-02-2004, 01:17 AM
Nice post Tsisqua

Thanks for the tips.
If I didn't get shot down so much I would have more chance to sharpen up my landingshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

madsarmy
floating somewhere in the sea

tsisqua
11-02-2004, 05:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:
Nice post Tsisqua

Thanks for the tips.
If I didn't get shot down so much I would have more chance to sharpen up my landingshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

madsarmy
floating somewhere in the sea <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am starting a huge collection of screenshots of my touring the Pacific from a raft. This will save me a bundle on vacation money next year http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tsisqua

madsarmy
11-02-2004, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
I am starting a huge collection of screenshots of my touring the Pacific from a raft. This will save me a bundle on vacation money next year http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Tsisqua <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol! I never thought of that.
Another good tip.
Thanks.

Cragger
11-02-2004, 06:22 AM
I often wonder why people have such a hard time landing in this sim/game. I've yet to fail to catch the wire on a trap, sure some of them where very ugly but go the plane and me down in one piece. I'd offer advice but I don't know where the problem is. In an attempt to best Oleg's comment a few months ago I landed the TB3 on the Lexington... and then took back off again.

From watching others online I'd have to say that most people do not give themselves enough room to properly set up on a final. They come in far too hot and overcorrect for minor deviations. You don't have to stick it right in the middle of the deck or runway. I'd rather have a sloppy landing anyday than embarrass myself with a ground loop.

MiszaNC
11-30-2004, 11:25 AM
Tsiqua that was nice. I use my real experience with Cessna 150, and it works!
Some more words about carrier landing. One should take carrier take-off mision (with moving carrier) and just stay in the pattern (take-off and landing). First change every carrier take-off mission (with FMB) to have one fleet and one ascort carriers moving side by side, fleet are faster (that is better). If you will be doing 10 succesfull landing in a row on fleet carrier, you may assume you are OK. Next stape is to take-off from big one and land on escort. Practice, practice, practice. For the beginning take 25% of fuel, your plane will be very light and will folow your will much better, then add fuel, and add additional tanks, bombs, rockets. You can always record you approach and in case of "not very much succesfull" landing (read crash) just look at it once again (with 1/4 time spped) and see what you can improve. I stay for about one hor a day just landing and taking-off in different planes. JN are nice and easy, walk in apark. US are much harder but I can land with 3 fules tanks in Corsair and well armed Hellcat as well. So far for me F4F is sweet, F4U no problems, F6F could be hard, SBD no problems, Zero easy, D3A like a kite in a wind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

wadenator
11-30-2004, 05:02 PM
Hey brothers check out Dart's page, he has some great tutorial videos.

Lethal_Hobo
11-30-2004, 05:35 PM
Oh man! CFS2, My very first Combat Flight Simulator, I was only about, lets see, it came out in 98? Oh Gosh I forget now, but in 98' I would of been 9, Just a bit older than your son.

I got pretty good at the thing, and eventually was able to do my stuff with 100% realism, by the time I was 10. Once I was accused of cheating online because nobody could turn inside me, I thought I was so smart with my flaps down and throttle back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif. I just fell in love with the Corsair. Hah, I uninstalled it with the start of CFS3, and finally moved to IL2, but CFS2 had always been my favourite game before PF.

Now, being 15, and the release of PF, I feel like I have been reunited with an old friend http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RAF_Hollywood
11-30-2004, 09:04 PM
We like to have some fun without tailhooks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.wildwilly.com/images/remote/p51_lexington.jpg

This was in Dogfight mode with a stationary carrier.

Sierra_54th
12-26-2004, 11:06 AM
The hardest plane for me to carrier land is the Corsair. Interestingly enough I recall reading a WW II aviation book which stated that the Corsair was generally relegated to the Marines and shore-based fields because it was difficult to land on a carrier. It seems the model is fairly true to life then.

ThreeCrow
12-26-2004, 11:34 AM
I think that the Brits had the first carrier operations with the Corsair. The Corsair suffered from poor vision over the long nose and cockpit position and had a nasty stall habit.

t0n.
12-26-2004, 12:06 PM
I find PF's carrier landings to be pretty easy. Plenty hight, cut engine, left hand turn, stall and trap. 99.9% success rate flying Corsairs and all.

But today, flying the F2A, I spent nearly 15 minutes in the circuit trying to get the thing down. It's rediculous. Right at the crucial moment that big telescopic sight blots out the entire deck and scares the ever lovin' bejeesus out of me. Wobble, wobble, bolter. Going to have to learn to land zoomed out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Carrier Ops rock!

WildeSau
12-26-2004, 12:30 PM
I am not successful at all when trying to land on a carrier. Right now I tried it with a Zero. I always touched the carrier but never achieved that arresting hook is catching the wire.

What I am doing wrong?

What is the normal angle you have when approaching the carrier? I come in flat - should it be more steep?

Please give me some help - I only achieved two landings - once with a Seafire and once with a Dauntless but never with a Zero or a Corsair.

Thanks.

WildeSau

Asgeir_Strips
12-26-2004, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am not successful at all when trying to land on a carrier. Right now I tried it with a Zero. I always touched the carrier but never achieved that arresting hook is catching the wire.

What I am doing wrong?

What is the normal angle you have when approaching the carrier? I come in flat - should it be more steep?

Please give me some help - I only achieved two landings - once with a Seafire and once with a Dauntless but never with a Zero or a Corsair.

Thanks.

WildeSau <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the Zero, You Must yank the stick all the way back right before touchdown, then the tailweel will hit the deck first, and the hook will have an opportunity to engage a wire, but if you come in to steep, you may bounce over the wires. On the Jap CV with the island superstructure on the left hand side, you must take a right hand side landing pattern, so when you approach short final you will be in a right turn. This is important, DO NOT approach the carrier like 2km out! Start to turn right about right after the stern of the carrier some 400m out. With the US planes, do exactly the same, but approach from the left hand side instead. And the corsair is simple, just hold a steady turn to the left so you can see the deck all the way down to almost touchdown, then yank the stick back (not as fast as in the zero, because if you stall to soon, the wing will drop to the left) and let it glide down to the deck, but especially with the corsair, dont apply full power on final approach because of the dreaded torque roll to the left.

Hope that helps a little.

WildeSau
12-26-2004, 01:14 PM
thanks - will give it a try. It's really not easy - at least for me. But on the other side, that's what makes this game so cool - the steep learning curve.

WildeSau

Old_Canuck
12-26-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cragger:
I often wonder why people have such a hard time landing in this sim/game. I've yet to fail to catch the wire on a trap, sure some of them where very ugly but go the plane and me down in one piece. I'd offer advice but I don't know where the problem is. In an attempt to best Oleg's comment a few months ago I landed the TB3 on the Lexington... and then took back off again.

From watching others online I'd have to say that most people do not give themselves enough room to properly set up on a final. They come in far too hot and overcorrect for minor deviations. You don't have to stick it right in the middle of the deck or runway. I'd rather have a sloppy landing anyday than embarrass myself with a ground loop. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
=========================================

Just gave it a try. The TB3 will land on a carrier but there's not much room for error with regards to airspeed, glideslope and clearance distance.

Here's a downloadable track (http://www.woodbuddies.com/PF/TB3OnCarrier.ntrk)

I've been finding the carrier landings in PF challenging but somehow they seem easier than CFS2 because the FMs are more stable/predictable. In other words, if you get the numbers right it traps every time.
http://www.woodbuddies.com/PF/TB3OnCarrier.jpg

Fliegeroffizier
01-02-2005, 06:32 PM
I've just put up on my Site(See SigBlock Below) a documentary clip showing Pacific Carrier landings(compiled by Nero/Verklies)....

I think it shows clearly that Oleg and company did a Great Job simulating Carrier Operations! I personally can vouch for the authenticity of PF in relation to the landing in the film clip which occurs at 2:00 minutes into the film...I made several landings of that sort...before I became "Proficient"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif