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kimi_
03-20-2006, 06:29 PM
As promised, a description of my visit to Ubisoft Montreal. (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=6757853&publicUserId=5546002) Enjoy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Kev5890
03-20-2006, 06:44 PM
You teased us big time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think this is good..You said you were an Rainbow 6 hardcore fan, then later said " i was honored to be there"

I have a sense you wouldnt say that unless what you saw was really amazing and lived up to Rb6.

This gives us hope for tomorrow i guess?

kimi_
03-20-2006, 06:53 PM
Well don't read too much into it, when I said that I was honored to be here, it was because I actually care about the franchise, as opposed to going to get a first look at say....Barbie's Horse Adventure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Kev5890
03-20-2006, 06:57 PM
No im uneasy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Can you atleast answer this...Did you watch muliplayer being played when you were there?

cre8nhavoc
03-20-2006, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by kimi_:
Well don't read too much into it, when I said that I was honored to be here, it was because I actually care about the franchise, as opposed to going to get a first look at say....Barbie's Horse Adventure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif


Nice.

Good read and I applaud you for getting the chance to hit the studio. I hope I'll get the chance soon.

And looking forward to the rest of your blog tomorrow Kimi. Good work! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-20-2006, 09:23 PM
you need to stop with your Barbie Horse adventure hate, it's an awesome game. You just don't get the awesome Barbie / horse relation.

Barbie 4 evar yo

GamesMasterTA
03-21-2006, 01:21 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Kimi you Tease http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Hey Goliath are you in that video? if so which ones you?

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-21-2006, 07:58 AM
No you don't see me in that video actually. You see in there our Lead Designer and Lead animator.

Even in the background not therehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Defuser
03-21-2006, 08:41 AM
Sweet jesus that's a lot of people... it's like you go down these narrow brick corridors and then suddenly it opens out and there's a huge amount of people sat in semi-darkness! That must be one of the best environments to design games in - looks comfortable, high tech and spacious.

Seeing that many people, all at work, all heads down and working away (when they're not being interviewed!) really makes you appreciate the hard work that has gone into, and no doubt will continue to go into, this game.

Yen Lo
03-21-2006, 09:42 AM
Nice studio, Iam interested in when they decided to switch characters from all the old ones from the book, to the new ones, and when they decided to leave out the ladies now. These guys look like pro's not some stupid Hip-hop traveling troop whose gonna dance they azzez off at a moments notice.

GamesMasterTA
03-21-2006, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Goliath.Ubi.Dev:
No you don't see me in that video actually. You see in there our Lead Designer and Lead animator.

Even in the background not therehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dude were you slackin off? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

kimi_
03-21-2006, 11:42 AM
Oh Goliath I forgot to mention poutine and our entertainment that night! Nuts...I'll have to include it in today's blog.

The_Biggy
03-21-2006, 01:54 PM
You lucky girl...

I live in Gatineau, about 2 hours from Montreal and most of my family live there...

So close, yet so far http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

gxer
03-21-2006, 02:35 PM
Is Vegas going to be on the original xbox as well?

Akedo
03-21-2006, 02:45 PM
wheres the video?

Real720
03-21-2006, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Goliath.Ubi.Dev:
you need to stop with your Barbie Horse adventure hate, it's an awesome game. You just don't get the awesome Barbie / horse relation.

Barbie 4 evar yo

You're kidding right?

Oh and here's the link Akedo: http://www.1up.com/do/download?cId=3148590

Real720
03-21-2006, 03:05 PM
I love the Rainbow Six 3 Black Arrow music!

RoM_Mafia
03-21-2006, 07:04 PM
hopefully they decide to keep everything like black arrow.


PS: PEC will be the death of VEGAS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

GSG_9_Rage
03-22-2006, 06:06 AM
Can someone post kimi's blog? i can't get around the block at my school and my computer at home is messed up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

GamesMasterTA
03-22-2006, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
Can someone post kimi's blog? i can't get around the block at my school and my computer at home is messed up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Rainbows in Vegas 18 Thumbs
Now that EGM's issue is out (go buy it people!) and our accompanying 1UP piece is up, I thought I'd talk a bit about my visit to the Ubisoft Montreal studio. Although I knew that Montreal was cold, I had no idea it was snowing at the time, so I squealed like a schoolgirl when our plane touched down and I saw the snow flying past my window. But enough about the snow, I already blogged about that in February. :P

The first thing I noticed is that Montreal's office looks slightly similar to the San Francisco office, in that it's a big warehouse'ish building with brick walls and a bunch of exposed pipes and stuff. The elevator has a window, but the only view you have is of the wall. So funny. The building itself is like a huge secured maze of locked doors, and one of the Marketing guys mentioned that he's been at the office for a month and still gets lost sometimes. You'd have to be either Sam Fisher or Jack Bauer to crack your way in to find Vegas secrets.

After being given a quick tour of the building and where all the teams sat (with the exception of the secret area that we didn't walk through nor see anything inside) we were ushered into a presentation room. Our first presentation was of the singleplayer experience, and the new things being introduced to Vegas. Throughout the presentation I would ask questions, and at one point the Lead Game Designer Max said to me, "You're hardcore aren't you?" And that comment was directed to me before I even mentioned to him that I played Rainbow Six 3 religiously every night into the wee hours of the morning for two years.


We were then taken around the floor that houses the Vegas team (all 150 of them plus more!) to get a behind the scenes look at how the new characters were created. One artist's desk was littered with outfitting gear, as well as foreign gear. Since Rainbow Six is an international team, I imagine that the artists can use the best-looking & functional gear from the teams around the world for the Rainbow operatives. I enjoyed discussing with this artist about the gun choice for Walters, the big burly guy, and whether it was the right choice for his personality & combat style. Two level artists showed us their depiction of the entire strip, and it was impressive to see the level of detail being carried out in a part of the game that may never actually be shown outside of planning purposes. It was fun watching the artist "fly" around the Strip with the bird's eye view, then honing in on a car on the Strip to come to a view you might see in the game. One character artist showed us Logan Keller on his computer, and the rendering of Keller right down to his scruffy chin. Again, an impressive level of detail that you may or may not notice in the game itself, but know that the character and his clothing are all rendered with such precise detail that even the rivets on his vest are shiny.



Are you familiar with that Sharper Image chimpanzee whose facial expressions will change depending on his mood? One of the developers demonstrated the same sort of thing to us, where the character's facial expression will change depending on what he's saying. It was interesting to see him demonstrate it to us with various phrases they might say in the game, as well as show us how they actually do the facial animations. While the video between Max Beland and Aaron Gilman is nice, I wish I had the camera on Aaron when he was doing a demonstration of the monkeys he described. He did it earlier in the day while showing us the motion capture videos.

My favorite part of seeing the developer's area was the cardboard standee of Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield. I stood there looking at it and thought to myself, "Awwww. I'm actually here in the studio because of this very game." It felt like I was brought full circle, from a gamer playing Raven Shield every night and chatting with fellow RvS'ers on the Ubisoft forum during the day (at the time I was in college and had a job that I could web surf between phone calls) to someone actually officially checking out the newest installment of Rainbow Six before any other public eye. As a Rainbow Six player, I felt honored to be there.

I know I teased you well enough, my impressions of what I actually saw, game-wise, will be posted tomorrow! I'm going to try and focus on the little details that EGM didn't cover. Expect to see a list up here tomorrow.

Posted at Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:11:40 EST

PART 2:
Rainbow Six: Vegas First Impressions
posted at 03/21/2006 06:12 PM EST 5 Thumbs


I'm utterly swamped trying to get work done before heading out to GDC for the rest of the week, but I promised impressions and I'm not one to back out. So I apologize in advance if this is mostly rambly and not well put together, but the important thing is that you get the info right!


$20 poutine in Montreal is awesome. As is the nightlife entertainment we partook in.


R6 is all about CQB right? This is what originally differentiated R6 and GR, in my mind. GR was all about outdoors with wide open maps. R6 was all about fighting someone up close in corridors and stairways. The team realizes this. This is one of the important points that they brought up and emphasized.


The major thing is saving lives. Saving lives will give a bigger reward, which is built into the system. I'm curious to see how this is going to work out.


There will be 6 locations, where the story will play out over twelve hours beginning at sundown. I <3 24, and I <3 R6 so I have NO problem with this. 24: The Game only had the storyline going for it, and the gameplay itself was mediocre, so if Vegas has a 24 style storyline AND kickass gameplay I will be in heaven.


Ding Chavez seems to be the only veteran team member in the story. While they haven't officially said this, it seems to imply that Clark has retired and Chavez has taken over. Introducing new characters is a great way to bring the R6 team into a new era, thus aging them. The only qualm I have with this so far is that of the two teammates accompanying you, neither is female. Park could very easily have been an Asian female, since he's the sniper/hacker, which females are both quite adept at. The only female introduced so far, Joanna, has been relegated to a support role, like Sam Fisher's Lambert.


There's a snake cam now!


Smarter AI. I know this was promised in Lockdown, but this has been described as the enemy AI working as a team. They too have a leader who directs them around, so it's almost as if you are fighting a team nearly of equal caliber later in the game. Enemy difficulty is a good thing right?


Non scripted AI. It will be interesting to see how this works.


Why Vegas was chosen: You have a relation to the location. Almost everyone has visited or knows about Vegas. It's a place that you or your loved ones could possibly be at when the chaos breaks out. Previously since the story took place around the world, you may not have been able to empathize as much with the storyline, since it'd be very unlikely that you'd be in places like Nicaragua.


Story will start out in Mexico. Perhaps the story has a tie to GRAW's storyline?


Weapon attachments: Red-dot scope will make a return, and a flashlight attachment will be introduced! As will multiple attachment options.


You can now pick up weapons.


For multiplayer, a brand-new matchmaking system is being built.


PEC will be in multiplayer but is back in a bigger and better way. Think of Lockdown's PEC as a bike with training wheels....they needed to get a feel for how this brand-new aspect was going to work. Now that it's been around in Lockdown, the training wheels are off and PEC mode is your brand new two wheeler sitting under the Christmas tree. "Going back to the core"


Co-op: You will be able to play certain locations and objectives as story mode with your PEC character.

Alrighty, I'm out for GDC for the rest of the week. I've given you quite a bit to chew on so enjoy!

GSG_9_Rage
03-22-2006, 02:05 PM
thanks for posting that!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

some of those elements give me the shivers. like the swapping weapons and the 12 hour storyline (both completly unrealistic). those really bother me. Also the PEC. i hope they don't mess that up.

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-22-2006, 02:32 PM
How is weapon swapping and a 12hour operation unrealistic?

Defuser
03-22-2006, 03:21 PM
Can I be a smart *** and post this?

http://www.raven-shield.com/faq.php#2_6

"2.6 Will you be able to pick up weapons?

We do not allow you to trade weapons or pick up weapons during a mission. Once you begin the mission you have everything you're going to get. Why would you pick up a weapon of unknown origin and operating condition in exchange for your own? With over 200 rounds of ammunition between the average primary and secondary weapons you should never run out of ammunition."

DayGlow
03-22-2006, 03:27 PM
I agree that's how a proper operator would do it, but as long as it's an auxillary feature, it doesn't really an effect on you.

Now if they build the missions around it so that you need to pick up guns during the mission because of artificial ammo constraints or hords of tangos, then I agree that it shouldn't be done.

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-22-2006, 03:59 PM
You will still have enough ammo with your chosen weapon the only reason why this is even there is because realisticly weapons don't magicly dissapear when you shoot someone. If you want to pick up a busted up half empty terrorist weapon go for it, if you don't feel like you need to , then don't.

That's about as realisic as it gets and it will also please people who enjoy swapping weapons for the hell of trying out new ones.

Yen Lo
03-22-2006, 05:11 PM
Well, like in The Regiment the tangos weapons are better than yours, or more appropiate, plus they have more ammo than you do too.

GSG_9_Rage
03-23-2006, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Goliath.Ubi.Dev:
You will still have enough ammo with your chosen weapon the only reason why this is even there is because realisticly weapons don't magicly dissapear when you shoot someone. If you want to pick up a busted up half empty terrorist weapon go for it, if you don't feel like you need to , then don't.

That's about as realisic as it gets and it will also please people who enjoy swapping weapons for the hell of trying out new ones.

now if we could switch teammates, that would eliminate that problem, wouldn't it?

I am going to refer you to this topic (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3801065024/m/7651056524)

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-23-2006, 07:24 AM
Since this is the console forums, why are you referring me to the PC forum? If you don't want that feature on PC keep the discussion to that area where it's already being discussed.

GSG_9_Rage
03-23-2006, 09:05 AM
it doesn't matter what forum it is under, that thread demonstrates very good points about why weapon swapping is unrealistic. Look past the PC content opinions and read their points about why weapon swapping is a bad idea. I don't want it in either game. I speak for the Rainbow Six series, not specifically the PC or console.

Hatchetforce
04-04-2006, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
it doesn't matter what forum it is under, that thread demonstrates very good points about why weapon swapping is unrealistic. Look past the PC content opinions and read their points about why weapon swapping is a bad idea. I don't want it in either game. I speak for the Rainbow Six series, not specifically the PC or console.

I hate to bust your bubble, but swapping weapons is not unrealistic. Let's approach this from two angles.

First, swapping weapons is no more unrealistic than the ability to run and shoot. You can do it in the real world, your fire just isn't as accurate. Same for swapping weapons. You can do it in the real world, your fire just won't be as accurate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes that was funny but it is also true. The ability to swap weapons in the real world is a fact.

Second, the first time you have a malfunction you can't clear, or you get fragged and knocked down and when you get up your main weapon doesn't function, you are going to grab the first enemy weapon you can find. A sidearm is a secondary weapon. It has a purpose and functioning as a primary weapon isn't one of them. During engagement with the primary weapon you have a jam or run dry, you do not attempt to clear or reload, you transition to the pistol and fire until you can reach cover or eliminate the threat. Your immediate concern is to then get your main weapon back up.

When you don't have a main gun, get one.

Second, inhibiting realism to promote realism never works. True, I wouldn't put down my tricked out M4 or MP5SD for an enemy AK. Not by choice. But I should be able to if I truly need it or if I am that dumb. Ubisoft shouldn't protect you from your own stupid mistakes if you want to pick one up and drop your familiar, zeroed weapon.

However, what the Dev Team should do is limit your accuracy with the weapon. A skilled operator can pick up a strange weapon and utilizing the principles of marksmanship and shooting be more dangerous than the enemy that had the weapon. The weapon wouldn't be close to the accuracy of your normal weapon, particularly at longer ranges.

The exception to your ability to use an enemy weapon better than that enemy is when you have a highly skilled foe with a well maintained high tech weapon whose sights were zeroed to him.

Yen Lo
04-04-2006, 05:59 PM
Excellent Post Hatchhetforce. This place needs more pros around here. I was curious did you see that new show The Unit, based off of Eric Haney that ex-Delta guy?

kimi_
04-04-2006, 09:32 PM
Oh darn I had completely forgotten about The Unit. I saw the first episode, but was having trouble adjusting to President Palmer being someone else.

Hatchetforce
04-05-2006, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by kimi_:
Oh darn I had completely forgotten about The Unit. I saw the first episode, but was having trouble adjusting to President Palmer being someone else.

Ha ha too funny. Being a 24 fan I know what you mean. But they couldn't have picked a better actor than Dennis Haysbert.

That's a yes to Yen Lo's question about seeing the show. The Unit is a good series. Is it realistic? Yes and no. The tactics, weapons, and actions are not realistic. The FBI coming to question someone about their actions in a military engagement without military investigators there as well, etc. etc. You could punch a great many holes in the series. Particularly odd is the way they portray how new guys are treated. But the dedication idea they are trying to portray is dead on. I have to like a show that says the right thing even if there are a host of innaccuracies.

kimi_
04-05-2006, 03:45 PM
What I enjoy about The Unit is their attempt to portray the families left behind, not knowing where or what their husbands are doing, and having to live with that as a way of life.

Yen Lo
04-05-2006, 04:10 PM
as far as I can tell they just barrow the Colonel when they get lonely lol. Man, that just cant be, what an effect on moral that would have. Plus most of the Zeros we had were weiners anyway.

doubleTAP5.56mm
04-09-2006, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by Goliath.Ubi.Dev:
How is weapon swapping and a 12hour operation unrealistic?
How often do counter terror operatives stop and swap out their weapon for "a cool enemy gun"? Oh yeah, after they use up all their ammo spraying bullets at the tangos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


If you want to pick up a busted up half empty terrorist weapon go for it, if you don't feel like you need to , then don't.

That's about as realisic as it gets.....

I hope you guys have your priorities straight on where you put the effort into realism. Who gives a **** about the realism of swapping for enemy weapons if the missions, applied hardware and gameplay do not have the Clancy-inspired authenticity they once did?
Why bother with realistically being able to use a drink machine (I'm exagerating) instead of giving us something like the awesome weapon mod capability as in the pc versions?


...and it will also please people who enjoy swapping weapons for the hell of trying out new ones.

How about making a R6 FOR real R6 fans, and include options for the casual gamer to make the game somewhat to his liking, instead of making a R6 FOR the casual gamer, with options for the R6 fan to make the game more to his liking.

BigCat75
04-09-2006, 02:58 PM
I agree with DT. Although I don't really care about weapon swapping one way or the other, there's a deeper issue at the core of the problem with the series' direction on console. You devs or marketers,whoever, are taking all your cues from hollywood (and/or arcade shooters), while any realistic simulation of tactical counter terror ops seems to be an afterthought. In other words it seems like your focus is on presenting a movie-like experience which you somehow beleive is "immersive", and you throw in a few (very few) realistic (original R6) features for the realism-starved R6 fans.
Please put gameplay realism first, THEN worry about environmental realism like weapon swapping, (and doubletap's soda machines, lol).

360 is here now, no reason to dumb down the series for the kiddies or because of hardware limitations. I play R6 pc because the console versions are a pathetic shell of what R6 is; but I would love to play a real R6 game on 360 because I actually prefer sitting back on the sofa with the 42 hdtv than sitting hunched over a mouse/keboard, and because xbox live is nice too.

Hatchetforce
04-10-2006, 12:39 PM
If you are a proponent of realism, and I am, then you should want weapon swapping in the title. Claiming that you promote realism and then stating that a very real option is inconsequential is a little hypocritical. You cannot split hairs on realism. That is what has caused issues in the past - parsing out realism and getting only a few of such vital elements included.

Remember, you are asking that a title conform to standards that would be welcomed by the realism community. That means it services everyone in that department, rather than only providing elements of realism that one person deems necessary.

To repeat myself, including only the realism factors that one or a few people think necessary is a big part of the issue. The key to imersion isn't a Jerry Bruckheimer experience. That isn't what generates immersion. And make no mistake, for a realism based shooter, immersion is the key to the kingdom. The surest way to set the title on that path is to allow the gamer to do what can really be done in the real world, even if it cost the gamer dearly. Part of realism is that actions have consequences. A gamer should be free to explore those results.

I had said before that removing realistic options in order to enhance realism never works. Restricting the gamer from doing certain things in order to force them down a certain path usually fails.

My read on the situation is that weapon swapping is already in the game so it is a moot point. There are several other options that should be included. Some are small issues such as the ability to show the number of magazines but not the number of rounds in the current mag. An option the gamer should be able to adjust as well as being a server side toggle. A few matters are more complicated such as the entire game structure for pre-mission planning and the player ability to draw on gathered intelligence for adjusting their plan.

The power of the 360 is there and it is up to the team to demonstrate their ability to avail themselves of it. That graphics engine is a system hog so there certainly are considerations there. I would venture that some patience may be required and a bit of a wait until E3 before we get a closer idea of the game structure and a clarification on some issues and rumors of which we have rightly been concerned.

doubleTAP5.56mm
04-10-2006, 03:00 PM
I don't disagree with you hatchet, my point, which I probably failed to get across, is you should get the core gameplay realism back FIRST, then worry about non-mission related realistic features like weapon swapping. I am not against that feature, what caught my attention was the REASON behind that feature:
"... it will also please people who enjoy swapping weapons for the hell of trying out new ones."
How about pleasing the people who want authenticity, not this new action movie garbage? Or those who want options like weapon mods, or choosing how to approach the objectives? Instead, you "streamline" the options out of the game (because you think options are boring, we just want to shoot stuff)and you give us.....weapon swapping.

Seems to me there's too much brainstorming over what new features you can cram into the series, and not enough about what you should put back into it.

Hatchetforce
04-10-2006, 04:24 PM
It is a little early to be attacking the dev team. I understand your suspicions, especially after LD. But having things like weapon swapping does not mean that OTHER authenticity features will not be included. They haven't come close to showing what is in the game. Multiple approaches. Hmmm Chaos Theory. Hey wasn't that also made in Montreal?

Also understand the way progamming works. Just because some people are adding feature X, doesn't mean if they were free they could work on core gameplay. Adding certain realism features does not mean game mechanics and maps suffer. You are a fan. Tha's good. You are passioonate about realism, hey that's even better. But realism cannot be selective, even if you are talking about core gameplay. Any element that will be difficult to change by modders afterward are the matters that must be attended to now.

Personally I am an all or nothing person. And with the 360, there is no reason they cannot provide a deep, realistic experience.

Catpuss
04-11-2006, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by Hatchetforce:

I hate to bust your bubble, but swapping weapons is not unrealistic. Let's approach this from two angles.

<snip>



Nice load of info explaining the situations.

I'm quite for being able to pick up weapons as long as they don't do the Ghost Recon naff trick of instantly equiping you with all the ammo too. It ends up in a spray and pray fest at times.

I assume in the normal situation would be to just grab the weapon and use it rather than extract any spare belts/magazines from the previous owner's clothing, then if, say its becuase your normal weapon is fubar'ed, take ammunition after. Afterall I wouldn't think you would want to be bent over stripping magazines from pouches when his mate comes running into the room from behind you, bayonett fixed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Hatchetforce
04-11-2006, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Catpuss:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hatchetforce:

I hate to bust your bubble, but swapping weapons is not unrealistic. Let's approach this from two angles.

<snip>



Nice load of info explaining the situations.

I'm quite for being able to pick up weapons as long as they don't do the Ghost Recon naff trick of instantly equiping you with all the ammo too. It ends up in a spray and pray fest at times.

I assume in the normal situation would be to just grab the weapon and use it rather than extract any spare belts/magazines from the previous owner's clothing, then if, say its becuase your normal weapon is fubar'ed, take ammunition after. Afterall I wouldn't think you would want to be bent over stripping magazines from pouches when his mate comes running into the room from behind you, bayonett fixed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent point Catpuss. Running over bodies and employing some type of mystical magnet that not only gathers the magazines, but also loads the ammunition into magazines of a different configuration and places them in your pouch is a bit far reaching. And a gameplay killer.

Regarding recovery of enemy weapons, the situation would dictate what was done. If it was a hurried moment, you may grab just the weapon. But if the guy has a bandolier, such as a standard AK bandolier, I would grab that entire kit. The question goes back to the status of your normal main weapon.

Going in to a hostile situation and losing a main weapon does happen. People have been shot at and had rounds damage their primary weapon weapon.

As I said, the bottom line is if you could really do it, then alow the player to do it. The gameplay check and balance is handled in a realistic way by implementing the realistic risks and penalities for doing such an action.

If a player wants to attempt a 20 foot drop onto a balcony in full kit, then allow him to do just that. But also implement the consequences of doing so in full kit - with Level III body armor and ballistic helmet.

I bring up the armor and helmet because no operator in his right mind is going to enter a room where there will be shooting and death and do so without Level III armor and a ballistic headgear. I do not care how bulletproof your cornrows are.

There are extreme circumstances for an exception to the kit rule such as trying to escape after capture and having been stripped of armor. But not as a rule.

Hatchetforce
04-11-2006, 11:13 AM
One more note about weapon pickups. And devs, I hope you are listening. While picking up an enemy weapon should be possible, albeit questionable in certain circumstances, the player should also be able to pickup a fallen Team mate's weapon. Including flashbangs and grenades.

Many games on the market suffer in this regard. The one weapon system that is likely to match the player in terms of caliber and magazine configuration, cannot be retrieved. This should be fixed.

Catpuss
04-11-2006, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the extra info. I liked the way BA did dropping, where you hit the ground and took some damage and (IIRC) crouched slightly

A nice "realisim" addition (or at least to reduce bouncing) would be stamina. Under normal movement e.t.c this would not be affected, but long periods of crouch walking would reduce it (ie. simulating cramp if anything) and bouncing would reduce it rapidly. Reduced stamina would bugger up aim and movement speed. Anything that stops those stupid tigger impersonators. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hatchetforce
04-11-2006, 11:44 AM
Another excellent point. If a title like SOCOM on a outdated piece of hardware such as the PS2 can institute encumberance, so should R6. The same is true for VBS1. If they can manage to model stamina, so should a next gen title like R6.

Catpuss
04-13-2006, 11:41 AM
On your point of dropping 20 feet in full kit. I've done 10 feet (after jumping off a wall) wearing 30 odd pounds of chainmail and a 5 pound steel helment. OK I'm not mega fit anymore but I ended up on all fours strugling not to just end up rolling over and felt I'd been carrying a ruck sack and someone threw an anvil in it.

I would certainly have counted it as 1 point of my health http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif