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La7_brook
12-23-2005, 02:14 AM
can any one tell if the 108mk weights more then the 20mm its buging me thanks you help

ImpStarDuece
12-23-2005, 02:48 AM
Gun weights

Hispano Mk II: 50 kg

Hispano Mk V: 42 kg

Mk 108: 60 kg


Cartridge weights:

Hispano: 240 grams

Mk 108: 480 grams


Projectile weights:

Hispano: 122 grams

Mk 108: 330 grams


HE capacity

Hispano: 10.2 grams (80-20 TNT/Amatol)

Mk 108: 85 grams PETN

Tooz_69GIAP
12-23-2005, 02:48 AM
Well, the Mk 108 cannon is a 30mm cannon, so, yes, the 108 shell should weigh more than the 20mm

Edit: Imp beat me to it!

La7_brook
12-23-2005, 03:14 AM
THANKS guys

La7_brook
12-23-2005, 03:17 AM
srry i mean or so the more 20mm they hold which one at end of the day is lighter?

ImpStarDuece
12-23-2005, 03:41 AM
Difficult to say.

While the Hispano is a lighter weapon, I don't have the weights for the mounting brackets, ammunition storage, recoil buffers, ammuntion feeds, ammount of ammuntion carried, cartridge ejectors and the like. You have to take in the weight of the entire weapon system, not just the gun itself.

Also remember that there are always going to be 2-4 Hispanos on a typically armed fighter (with the exceptions of the P-38 and P-400). The Mk 108 was mounted singularly on some late model 109s and in pairs on bomber destroyer 190s. I think there was also a gondola configuration for the 109, but i'm not sure. So it also depends on the fit to the fighter its mouted on.

Xiolablu3
12-23-2005, 06:52 AM
I know people dont like vagueness in this forum for a very good reason, but I am pretty sure that a Mk108 carrying 109 will be carrying more weight than a MG151/20mm one. (Including the gun,ammo and mounting)

p1ngu666
12-23-2005, 07:08 AM
the underwing mk108s probably wherent used by 109s.

id rather have a 20mm

Abbuzze
12-23-2005, 08:00 AM
If I understand your question correct, you ask which one is the overall lighter weapon?

If you compare the MK151/20 and the MK108, the MK108 is a bit heavier. A time ago there was a calculation in this forum. The difference was around 50kg in disadvantage for the 30mm.

A few data:

MK108
Weight of projectile was 330 g, total weight 480 g. The weight of the gun was 58 kg and it's length 1057 mm.
The MK108 based upon the MGFF, sharing advantages and disatvantages. Both were light but both had a low muzzle velocity.

Here a link to the MG151
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_151/20
and for the 30mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK_108_cannon
(maybe the greater weight is caused by the mounting. I don´t know.)

LStarosta
12-23-2005, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the underwing mk108s probably wherent used by 109s.

id rather have a 20mm

Yes they were.

jarink
12-23-2005, 09:54 AM
Don't forget the Me-262, which had 4 Mk-108 in the nose. That's a hellava weight of fire! Quite a few late-war Luftie a/c had twin Mk-108 (or Mk-103) as their main armament. Me-163, He-162, plus a whole slew of prototypes.

P1ngu, I'd rahter be hit by a 20mm (10.2g of explosive) than a 30mm (85g of explosives; eight times as much explosives by weight)

Stuka_G10
12-23-2005, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
Don't forget the Me-262, which had 4 Mk-108 in the nose. That's a hellava weight of fire! Quite a few late-war Luftie a/c had twin Mk-108 (or Mk-103) as their main armament. Me-163, He-162, plus a whole slew of prototypes.

P1ngu, I'd rahter be hit by a 20mm (10.2g of explosive) than a 30mm (85g of explosives; eight times as much explosives by weight)
Why? you'd die slower. I mean if it hit you directly.

La7_brook
12-23-2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
If I understand your question correct, you ask which one is the overall lighter weapon?

If you compare the MK151/20 and the MK108, the MK108 is a bit heavier. A time ago there was a calculation in this forum. The difference was around 50kg in disadvantage for the 30mm.

A few data:

MK108
Weight of projectile was 330 g, total weight 480 g. The weight of the gun was 58 kg and it's length 1057 mm.
The MK108 based upon the MGFF, sharing advantages and disatvantages. Both were light but both had a low muzzle velocity.

Here a link to the MG151
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_151/20
and for the 30mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK_108_cannon
(maybe the greater weight is caused by the mounting. I don´t know.) thanks abbuzze and guys thats what i was looking for / wanting to drop as much wieght as can for dog fighting with the g6 on 25% fuel load , more rounds of 20mm will be great as to the slow rate of fire from 30mm / lighter the better in E fights with La7,s and late mod Yaks / be trying geuss witch will bring my nose round faster as a 108mk is no use if you can not fire it and slow rate of fire is all so facter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Badsight.
12-23-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
wanting to drop as much wieght as can for dog fighting with the g6 on 25% fuel load , more rounds of 20mm will be great as to the slow rate of fire from 30mm / lighter the better in E fights with La7,s and late mod Yaks / be trying geuss witch will bring my nose round faster as a 108mk is no use if you can not fire it and slow rate of fire is all so facter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif your confusing RL with FB

only way to know which option will make the G6 perform better is to fly the plane

Kocur_
12-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
The MK108 based upon the MGFF, sharing advantages and disatvantages. Both were light but both had a low muzzle velocity.


MK108 isnt based on MG FF as a design. What they have in common is principle of action, i.e. advanced primer ignition blowback.

MG151/20 plus 200rds
42 + 39,2 = 81,2kg

MK108 plus 65rds
60 + 31,2 = 91,2kg

That is without belt links but thats irrelevant, and without other guns accersories but those would be similar or nearly identical for both types. So difference between 20mm or 30mm armament was very small. Err, I mean RL...

Abbuzze
12-23-2005, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Kocur_:


MK108 isnt based on MG FF as a design. What they have in common is principle of action, i.e. advanced primer ignition blowback.

MG151/20 plus 200rds
42 + 39,2 = 81,2kg

MK108 plus 65rds
60 + 31,2 = 91,2kg

That is without belt links but thats irrelevant, and without other guns accersories but those would be similar or nearly identical for both types. So difference between 20mm or 30mm armament was very small. Err, I mean RL...

Thats what I mean with "based", maybe idea is a better word, sorry my english is not that good. For the calculation, dont forget the pressured air bottle for the MK108 in the early version, later version got a system without such a bottle.

Kocur_
12-23-2005, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:


MK108 isnt based on MG FF as a design. What they have in common is principle of action, i.e. advanced primer ignition blowback.

MG151/20 plus 200rds
42 + 39,2 = 81,2kg

MK108 plus 65rds
60 + 31,2 = 91,2kg

That is without belt links but thats irrelevant, and without other guns accersories but those would be similar or nearly identical for both types. So difference between 20mm or 30mm armament was very small. Err, I mean RL...

Thats what I mean with "based", maybe idea is a better word, sorry my english is not that good. For the calculation, dont forget the pressured air bottle for the MK108 in the early version, later version got a system without such a bottle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgrt!
Anyway weights of MG151/20 and MK108 weapon systems were quite similar, not many tens of kgs of difference.

MEGILE
12-23-2005, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Badsight.:

only way to know which option will make the G6 perform better is to fly the plane

bwuhaha

ownzed

Hristo_
12-23-2005, 06:16 PM
Whenever this topic was brought up, it concluded that the difference was negligible in relation to the total plane weight (something like 0.3% or so).

As for use, MG151/20 is by far more consistent and user friendly, if such thing can be attributed to a gun. MK108 is a love/hate gun - many times you'll hate it as bandit just seemed to pass through the bullet stream. And yet, when you connect with one hit during a scissor fight, you'll definitely love it.

carguy_
12-24-2005, 03:46 AM
RGR that Hristo.We be takin a 110 for Pe2 WHAM WHAM WHAM!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Willey
12-24-2005, 04:47 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Kuna15
12-24-2005, 05:20 AM
I prefer MK108 especially if flying FW-190. One accurate pass annihilates everything.
In Bf-109 generally speaking also MK108, sometimes MG151.
MK108 has fairly good rof for weapon of such calibre so it is efficient during enemy scissors attempt, although like some pointed out it can be tricky.
btw I just realised that I'm completely ot sorry.