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View Full Version : Poll: Is the 4.0 aircraft visibility unsatisfactory?



ucanfly
06-14-2005, 09:36 AM

ucanfly
06-14-2005, 09:36 AM

horseback
06-14-2005, 11:29 AM
In my experience, the hardest thing to see is the moving painted aircraft against the ground, too small and too dark, even when in reality, they should appear to be almost outlined (reflected sunlight and shadowed areas NEVER match the ground reflectance in normal bright daylight-even on most overcast days).

The other visibility problem is the uncanny way AI have of finding and hiding behind your canopy frames...

cheers

horseback

Jetbuff
06-14-2005, 12:58 PM
4.0's dots are a lot better and the LOD's too. I can maintain visual 90% of the time. I still lose certain aircraft, but mostly due to some LOD issues related to that particular plane model. So, overall, I don't find tracking in 4.0 to be unrealistic sans icons.

I fly 4.0 at 1152x864x32 OpenGL, excellent settings, 4xAA.

Covino
06-14-2005, 01:13 PM
I've never had a problem of aircraft disappearing in "typical dogfight ranges" or "near distances" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif. Yeah, the dots will eventually disappear at great distances (and the range seems ok to me) but what do you expect?

Atomic_Marten
06-14-2005, 01:23 PM
You see, I only have a problem with dots if I'm flying above them, another words when they can only be seen against ground. There visibility is bad, but isn't impossible to spot in most cases.

Other than that I don't have much problems in spotting them.

carguy_
06-14-2005, 01:30 PM
It was improved.I still think LW planes stand out much more but it`s definitely an improvement.

Although I vote yes.

Jetbuff
06-14-2005, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
It was improved.I still think LW planes stand out much more but it`s definitely an improvement.

Although I vote yes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you should qualify that by saying the 109 as opposed to LW birds. The others are either supposed to be big (He111, Ju87 and BF110) or are quite small LOD-wise. (190)

Maj_Death
06-14-2005, 09:09 PM
It varies, american, british and japanese planes seem to be about right but some of the older planes like the russian birds tend to go invisible. The 109 is as always just as visible as a B-17 at range http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. Most german planes are more realistically displayed fortunately.

On a related note, lately I've started flying CW and I've noticed that many ground targets quite simply arn't displayed at all until you get within the first detailed LOD range. Prior to the super dots being introduced, it was possible but difficult to spot targets at range against the ground. Now however I find it to normally be impossible. It isn't a matter of they are only a single grey pixel on green background as before, now it seems to be no pixel at all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

ucanfly
06-14-2005, 09:44 PM
I have to agree with those that say the 109 is relatively easy to see at a distance. Too bad that other planes that are even bigger are much harder to spot (262 comes to mind).

Stigler_9_JG52
06-14-2005, 10:18 PM
This is by FAR one of the worst things still not satisfactorily addressed in this sim. Ironic that a sim known for its eye candy is the absolute WORST at allowing players to see.

Visibility is such a KEY element of air combat. And here your only choices seem to be icons that some feel give too much info, or to "pretend" that it's so much of a challenge, and just see nothing at all, when you should see it.

Fact is, within 2 or 3km certainly, a moving aircraft, camo'd or not, will not defeat a determined vector search IRL. Movement will give it away unless it is Nap-of-Earth, and even then it might be spottable. Depending on other factors such as plane size (and to a greater extent, camo), even out to about 5km you will spot a plane if you commit to staring in a relatively small area for a good 5 seconds or so.

The horrible no-icon visibility in this sim defeats any advantage to having altitude, a KNOWN historical advantage prized by most pilots. Above a km or so, on most maps, forget it; you just won't see a friggin' thing. Your only hope is to have a cloud behind the dot, and then you get some visual aids (more irony: if the dot's in a cloud, rather than in front of it, it should be harder, not easier to spot). Against the terrain, forget it; with any mist, fog or smog, forget it. Against the ocean (especially if it's that slate grey in the Finland map) forget it.

It's so bad, that you can start a (no-icon) co-op with over a dozen aircraft slightly below you and within 2 or 3km total distance, and within the time it takes to do a few S-turns to get into a good escort position, you lose visual on 3/4 of them, often never to be seen again...and you have a route on a map to help you! I had that exact thing happen to me over a hazy Normandy map yesterday.

Here's another rub: if you luck out and spot the glimmer of a half-speck of color, it will often simply disappear *while you watch it*. "Zoom in your view", which is tantamount to concentrating on a small area with intense scrutiny, and the dot is even less likely to be visible than with the full 90 degree view. Dots get smaller as the viewing scale gets larger. It just gets stupider and stupider.

Your only hope is to dive into the weeds, blow the advantage of having position in the first place, and hope you see something in time to maneuver against it. Not very realistic, and highly depressing for a committed alt-monkey such as myself.

Note: these comments are from a guy with an ATI card, on highest settings at 1024 x 768. Some tell me that the other major brand of vid cards have better luck with this. And some say use 800 x 600, but that's so butt-ugly I'd sooner stop playing than resort to that setting.

LEXX_Luthor
06-14-2005, 10:53 PM
Stiglr:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's so bad, that you can start a (no-icon) co-op with... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
When they releaced Patch 3.01, the no~icon servers blossomed like spring flowers, only to wilt and die when Oleg made the Dots invisible again (for higher resolutions) in Patch 3.02.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-14-2005, 11:25 PM
I voted yes, I had a hard time in 3.04m and now it seems even harder.

The more I fly the more it seems to be a LOD thing, it seems at times a plane will be very close but seemingly have a LOD from farther away, then suddenly it quickly changes and the plane is right on top of me. This causes me to wrongly judge aircraft distance which experience has taught me to do pretty well and I almost never fly with icons. Again, I had a hard time before mainly due to playing at high resolution, it just seems even harder now and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a LOD thing, if it is indeed anything at all. Whatever the case, I am having a harder time than ever spotting aircraft and my eyesight is fine. Alot depends on resolution and this has never been resolved. Unfortunately FB/PF is optimized for 1024x768, which would have been fine ten or more years ago. I am just disappointed that some sort of solution could not be found that does not punish high res users. It is hard to believe actually considering Oleg and crew's history of support. I guess the 3.01 thing was not acceptable to some, but instead of finding a compromise they just went back to penalizing high res (1600x1200) users. It is frustrating because it is a vital part of air warfare that has remained unaddressed for a LONG time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif.

Having said that I am very grateful for what we have (and continue to get for free), just confused as to why this hasn't been solved.

NonWonderDog
06-15-2005, 12:24 AM
It is a bit hard to see, but I only really have problems tracking a plane over a forest.

The Ju-87 needs to be sorted out, though. Lod1 is a LOT bigger than lod0. The plane suddenly gets huge when you're approaching, and then suddenly gets a lot smaller when you think you're getting into firing range. This just confuses me to no end when I'm trying to make deflection shots on them.

TooCooL34
06-15-2005, 02:23 AM
I have never whined about Dot or LOD since FB release, never. They have been really ok to me since I always try to have high fps, large monitor.(plus TIR)

But now some planes' LOD really disappear so often. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Dot is ok.

WTE_Ibis
06-15-2005, 02:29 AM
For me it is the biggest problem in the game,as others have said,I like to fly high but gave it up as I can't see A.F.T. and so down low I gotta go to getem against the sky backdrop and yes you lose the advantage of height and as someone said before to zoom in seems to make the dots smaller.
This is an observation not a whine,if thats the way it is then so be it.
Maybe it's because I'm colour blind and wear glasses, but it does spoil my enjoyment of the game.
Cheers.

F19_Ob
06-15-2005, 09:17 AM
Those time I have been in the air and seen other planes above or below the visibility has been exellent on around or beyond 500m, even against forests.(a couple of times)

In the sim it's a bit too bad visibility on that distance against the ground.

well what I think.