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Cirris1991
11-23-2009, 05:10 PM
Ok, I was watching "The Truth" video on YouTube, and someone on there said this:

"Ubisoft worker here, if you want to find out what happens next, read the story regarding Adam & Eve & what happens next"

Now, regardless of whether he/she was actually worked for Ubisoft, I think we should still take the biblical story into account. Here are my idea's about what could have happened.

Ok, so in the video "The Truth", we see what appears to be Adam & Eve, escaping from Eden (the binary code at the end of the video translates to EDEN). Eve is pictured holding one of the Apples of Eden (the apple from the tree of knowledge in the bible).

Now, remember the conversation with Minerva? She said that they were not God's, simply the one's who came before (human's that is). Minerva stated that we could not comprehend them. Minerva's people (lets call them the "Creator's" from now on) created human's in their own image. In the bible, it says that "We created human's in our own image". In the King's James version, actually use the plural, and it is suggested that God and his angels created human's in their own image. My theory is that God and his angels, are merely the leader of the Creator's and his/her people.

In "The Truth", there is a shot where you can see someone holding an Apple of Eden, which seems to be controlling nearby human's to work. Look at the person holding the Apple, the silhouette looks like Minerva, doesn't it? Maybe Minerva wasn't so innocent after all, maybe her people created human's as a slave workforce, just like if we created intelligent robots to do our work.

Lets move on with the story of Adam & Eve. They were told to multiply and live a happy life within the garden of Eden, but in "The Truth", it doesn't seem like Adam & Eve are exactly having fun does it? God said to Adam & Eve that if they eat the forbidden fruit, they will surely die. Satan (the serpent) then came along, and persuaded Adam & Eve that eating the apple would not kill them, and that they should eat it. When they ate the apple, they were ashamed and embarrassed that they were naked, and came to realisation. Now, here is my theory on this.

When the creator's created the Human's, they created them to be controlled. The Apples of Eden they possessed maybe made the Human's think that they were in some blissful world, blind to the reality of what was happening. Maybe the Apples also made the creator's seem like God's to the Human's (because human's could not comprehend the technology). This would explain why the Creator's had names of God's.

Human's were told never to interact with the Apples, because it would surely kill them. Satan, a fallen "Angel" who maybe felt guilty about what the creator's were doing, persuaded Adam & Eve to "Eat" one of the Apples from the "Tree of knowledge". As soon as Adam & Eve interacted with the Apple, they become aware of what was really going on.

Think about the motives of the Assassin's and the Templar's throughout history. The Templar's (and who preceded them, IF an order existed before them with the same goals) have always wanted to control, dominate, and bend reality to their will. The Assassin's however, have always wanted to free people from any kind of Slavery or lie. Personally, I think the Creator's are just the modern day Templar's, attempting to control and dominate, where as Adam and Eve could be the beginning of the modern day Assassin's. Watch the video, notice how Adam & eve run and jump just like Assassin's? Granted they may not literally be assassin's, but it could be a hint from the writers that they are related to the creed. Also, I believe it is codex page 9 which says something along the lines of "You can never kill a creed. Somewhere, someone will pick it up, and re invent it. I think that we, the Assassins's, have merely reinvented an order that pre-dates the old man himself."

So why in the game, is the bible story of Adam & Eve accepted, and not the true version? I think Adam and Eve knew the truth, but when they died, the last of the followers of the creed were silenced, and the Templar's re-invented history for control. Notice how Altair in the Codex pages criticises Christianity, stating "it is the greatest lie ever told". How it conveniently offers eternal suffering should you reject it. It is a form of control. Al mualim states that Jesus was simply a mortal, creating illusions from by using a piece of Eden. Could Jesus have been part of the Templar's creed, helping to control and dominate civilsation?

This is what I think may have happened, but some question still remain. Why does Minerva appear to want to help Desmond stop the catastrophe that is going to happen in 2012 (if she is, as part of my theory, part of the Templar's order)?
Why do the human's running in "The Truth" video have strange lines on their bodies? Are they really human's?

Please discuss and give me your views!! Thanks for reading mine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AetosEagle
11-23-2009, 05:18 PM
Bascially summed up all my thoughts right there.

Everything there I agree with... I can't flaw it. All we need now is either DLC videos (free though...) or ACIII to come out next month. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But seriously I think the best point there is about why Minevera wanting to help Desmond stop the catastrophe... If she can just whizz off out of the Earth and come back again as they did last time, why can't they do it again.

And did anyone else notice the computer type technology when she said "Give the Peice of Eden here" or something along the lines, Ezio held it out and she didn't even take it, just sent out some sort of wave pulse. Amazing stuff.

Coolgerb
11-23-2009, 05:27 PM
I've been thinking about this myself, and cannot do anything else but to agree with your theories.

And I love how Jesus was most likely a Templar aka. bad guy (as far as we know) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Being an atheist is one of the many reasons I love AC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

oricle
11-23-2009, 05:32 PM
this is about the exact thing i was thinking. except about the "gods" names. i think these names were there names but over time as people lost information about the fist civilization and the beings (which i don't think are humans) who created the pieces of Eden eventually were thught to be gods so they kept there names and forms throughout the years but stories and legends changes and were created and they became gods in the minds of modern men.

SolCutter
11-23-2009, 09:14 PM
**********spoiler?****************

"if she is, as part of my theory, part of the Templar's order"


She isnt as far as I noticed.

Part of subject 16s ramblings gave some insight as to the beginnings of the order of Templar and Assassin.
Altair was right. The assassins existed before. So did the templars. One of the puzzles that 16 left behind was some paintings of the biblical Cain and Abel. The sons of Adam and Eve. Durring this puzzle, you have to look for the Templar cross. It appears on Cain's head, and is labled the "Mark of Cain". The way I understand the whole situation is this:

The 'creators' created humans. Out of a desire to play god (heh) or their own pride in their advancement. Now, like with every experiment, they wanted some control over their new creations. Any responsible scientist would. So the pieces were created as a way to control humans. I agree that humans were probobly led by these devices, to have limited self awareness, limited ability for free will. Also I think they are data repositories. Akin to a holocron from Star wars lore. I could be wrong about this, but Altair did get the idea for a new metal (steel?), which the other assassins try to credit him with the discovery, and the wrist pistol. Both came from the POE

this part is just conjecture on my part..
Lucifer was probobly a creator who was moraly troubled by the situation with the humans. Maybe they were beginning to be used as slaves after a while by the creators, and used a piece of eden on adam and eve, to give them free will. Then again, in the Truth clip, eve seems to reassure adam she did infact have the POE still. Leading me to another conclusion that they stole it. It very well could be both are correct. Lucifer gave them free will, then they acted on their own to steal one and escape.

Adam and eve go on to have 2 children. For whatever reason, Cain and Abel fight over the piece of eden. The reasons for this, I never remember reading, and would love to see all the lore spelled out on a site somewhere. From their conflict, the orders of Templar and Assassin rise.



"And I love how Jesus was most likely a Templar aka. bad guy"

I am very hesitant to label anyone in the lore A templar or assassin unless its specificaly stated. There are some people throughout time who had a Piece of Eden it seems who were not even aware of either faction.
Another one of 16's puzzles revealed that Nicola Tesla came into possession of a piece. The Abstergo letters reveal that Tesla had an idea for the Piece. Creating a "internet" it would seem, and intending to provide AC power free. This part of the story struck me as particularly creative it how it was fit in, as Tesla suffered horribly from Edisons slander in their competition on their methods of energy. Finding that Edison was a Templar was kind of funny to me, heh.

Still I would love to see a wiki or something full of all the revelations for the lore of the game. would make for some interesting reading.

ALTAIRXEZIO
11-23-2009, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Coolgerb:
I've been thinking about this myself, and cannot do anything else but to agree with your theories.

And I love how Jesus was most likely a Templar aka. bad guy (as far as we know) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Being an atheist is one of the many reasons I love AC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif where does it say anything about jesus beign a templar?

Coolgerb
11-23-2009, 10:19 PM
It is mentioned in AC (if I remember correctly... Might've been AC2) that Jesus used the apple of eden or some other relic to control the minds of people, and perform tricks like turning water into wine.

Also, could you really imagine him being an assassin? Like most religious leaders, he was just a glorified power-hungry son of a you-know-what.

SolCutter
11-23-2009, 10:43 PM
could you really imagine him being an assassin? Like most religious leaders, he was just a glorified power-hungry son of a you-know-what.

Didnt the templars kill jesus to get the piece of eden?

From what I remember, the Templars (in the Roman empire) killed Jesus to get his piece of eden. He was just like tesla later on. He found something that let him perform great things, and tried to use it for good. Until the Templars found out and put an end to him. At least thats how i see the events.

General_Lekauf
11-23-2009, 10:44 PM
coolgerb what right have you and of you to call Jesus a power hungery idiot He is not idiot hes the son of God even science proves evolution dead wrong in the laws of entropy it states the universe is becoming more chaotic and evolutions says that its becoming more organized what a shocker its gonna be when thousands of people vanish in less than a second and you are all left behind to live seven more years before cast into h*ll

SolCutter
11-23-2009, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by General_Lekauf:
coolgerb what right have you and of you to call Jesus a power hungery idiot He is not idiot hes the son of God even science proves evolution dead wrong in the laws of entropy it states the universe is becoming more chaotic and evolutions says that its becoming more organized what a shocker its gonna be when thousands of people vanish in less than a second and you are all left behind to live seven more years before cast into h*ll



its a game dude. Hes refering to the Jesus represented in the game...

Coolgerb
11-23-2009, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by General_Lekauf:
coolgerb what right have you and of you to call Jesus a power hungery idiot He is not idiot hes the son of God even science proves evolution dead wrong in the laws of entropy it states the universe is becoming more chaotic and evolutions says that its becoming more organized what a shocker its gonna be when thousands of people vanish in less than a second and you are all left behind to live seven more years before cast into h*ll

*facepalm*

EDIT: There is so much fail in your post, I won't bother seriously replying. That, and I can't really afford getting involved in yet another argument, mods have been very relaxed so far to me.

An_Idea
11-23-2009, 10:52 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/facepalm.jpg

so are you seriously stating that you do not believe in evolution?

General_Lekauf
11-23-2009, 11:02 PM
what idiot does the science those idoits based on state the exact opposite you wear rags they dont evolve into cackys

keepth3beat
11-23-2009, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by General_Lekauf:
what idiot does the science those idoits based on state the exact opposite you wear rags they dont evolve into cackys

Clothes aren't living things. Clothes are created from materials which are created from plants and animals, which DO evolve.

At least, I think you're talking about clothes. I'm not even sure you're speaking English. Anyway, pushing the giant fountain of ignorance aside...


SolCutter, I don't remember anyone mentioning that the Romans were Templars and killed Jesus for the piece of eden. That sounds like speculation to me... All I remember from the first game was the reference to Jesus possessing a piece of eden.

Moving on, Minerva doesn't really strike me as a templar, either. I thought it was interesting that they're basically tying all religious beliefs, both mono- and poly-theistic, to this collection of 'creators' that made mankind and Adam and Eve.

The Cain/Abel idea seems like a solid one in terms of the founding of Templars and the Assassins. One of the hints to unlock a video fragment basically said something like the Assassins were the children of God and Men.

I'm wondering if maybe Adam and Eve escaped with the Piece of Eden and in their time away tried to learn how to use it. After they did, maybe that's when they came back to give the humans their free will to overthrow the 'God' creatures.

After they managed to free themselves from the Creators, maybe they separated and broke off into little settlements where they could... and when they did, maybe that's when the different 'religions' started to develop across the world. It would make sense, given the fact that many different theistic views spawned from very specific points on the globe. And given the fact that the plates probably hadn't shifted into their present-day positions at that time, it's possible. Maybe that would explain things like the targeting of Christians within the early Roman era--the differing belief system marked you as an outsider to that specific settlement.

And as time passed, the sharpness of the memories of the 'Eden' civilization faded and the religions sort of molded into what they have been over the last few hundred years, rather than "The Truth".

*scratches head* Or something. Just a theory, anyway.

MethodicallyMad
11-24-2009, 12:04 AM
Cirris1991, I believe the majority of your hypothesis to be correct -- not to mention, a brief shot from "The Truth" video seems to reaffirm the gist of it, a-la where Adam & Eve are ascending the building and Eve looks in through the glass where, lo and behold, one of the "Those Who Came Before" entities is hovering there, Piece of Eden in hand (apple), seemingly controlling a group of humans that are laboring before it. This confirms that the "Creators," as you've named them, created the Pieces of Eden in order to invoke command over humans, however, this left one quandary: Why would Minerva then feel any obligation to help Desmond/the Assassins save the world from the impending solar flare in 2012?

Going off the continuity of the rest of your theory, I believe it's simple. What if Minerva is the Lucifer figure of the story, ergo the very same "Creator" who freed humans from the influence of the Pieces of Eden in the first place and allowed them to escape Eden, to spread out and proliferate over the world and make it their own? After all, where do we find Minerva, if not locked away in a vault beneath the Vatican? Seems like a form of captivity/imprisonment, if you ask me.

Now, maybe Minerva is the Lucifer figure and maybe not, eitherway that part doesn't matter, what does is that the Creator's (or at least those seen in Eden) are proven to have used the Pieces of Eden in order to command the minds of the humans that resided in Eden, and that Adam & Even somehow broke free from their influence, seized one of the pieces and escaped.

And it would seem that down the road, Cain later became the progenitor of what would turn into the Templar Order.

keepth3beat
11-24-2009, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by MethodicallyMad:
Going off the continuity of the rest of your theory, I believe it's simple. What if Minerva is the Lucifer figure of the story, ergo the very same "Creator" who freed humans from the influence of the Pieces of Eden in the first place and allowed them to escape Eden, to spread out and proliferate over the world and make it their own?

That would be... really fascinating. And it would really go with the idea AC1 start with, that there is no such thing as a wrong or right, only perception. Because were that the case, of course Minerva would be seen as a negative figure by the other Creators, and could possibly be used as a scapegoat.

MethodicallyMad
11-24-2009, 12:29 AM
I just rewatched the ending, and this has caused me to draw a slightly different conclusion than in my last post.

Minerva says that the "Creators" (as we seem to be calling them) found Earth and created man, but fighting broke out when war was initiated against them by us and, because the Creators were too engrossed in the ensuing warfare to pay any mind to the condition of the sun, they were unguarded when the solar flare occured, and they and humans alike thus suffered heavy and significant losses on both sides. In the aftermath of this great catastrophe, the "Creators" gathered together what remained of themselves and of humanity and began to rebuild, creating Eden and also creating the Pieces of Eden. Based on her dialogue, it would seem that the Pieces of Eden were designed to function as a failsafe, to prevent humans from waging war a second time. If that is true, then it would seem that the Pieces of Eden were originally created to serve a benevolent purpose, such that the "Creators" could invoke a state of bliss peace and would be able to keep a wary eye out for any future impending catastrophies, but all that went wrong when Adam & Eve escaped from the Garden, and humanity eventually took Earth for themselves.

The "Creators" are no longer corporeal and "of the flesh," as Minerva also says, and instead have been reduced to their spiritual essences (there were more than one in that vault, evidently). Anyway, due to this new revelation, I revoke my previous theory that Minerva was the Lucifer figure. I don't think there was a Lucifer figure in the first place, or that the "Creators" were ever malevolent or enslaving. They were only trying to protect humans from eachother in the wake of a great catastrophe, that's all, and like Minerva says regarding the Pieces of Eden, man will continually mininterpret the pieces' true purpose.

Captain Tomatoz
11-24-2009, 12:38 AM
in one of the glyth puzzles i think it says that jesus was an assassin and the templar killed him for the peice of eden http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dudebag
11-24-2009, 12:43 AM
I will probably have to veiw the ending again but This is how view the Assassins storyline.

The Truth video shows adam and Eve running around the Garden of Eden and stealing a peice of Eden which is known as an "apple".

Now my theory is that Adam and Eve arent exactly human and they are likely to be related to those who came before. As we all know in the bible Adam and Eve are kicked out of Eden for stealing the apple and I think the same goes here, but in the Assassins Creed universe they steal the apple with the purpose of influencing Human evolution in their image.

Minerva states that they created Humans in their image so that their legacy would live on after the catastrophy and she also said she was known by many names. I think one of those names was Eve.

keepth3beat
11-24-2009, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Dudebag:
I think one of those names was Eve.

I don't think this to be the case. A lot of religions 'borrowed' from one another, especially when it comes to Greco-Roman stuff, so when she said she was known by many names, I think she's referring to the fact that Venus could also be referred to as Aphrodite, etc.

Assassin_M
11-24-2009, 01:34 AM
Its AC I all over again just more advanced and interesting BTW i havent played the game yet im gonna get it on thursday god willing.anyways i was just reading ur theories and thoughts and i have to say it was an interesting read i`v never had sauch excitement while reading before but this was the best read i`v had for a while but the one of the topics pulled me in actually which is the truth video i`v actually seen it "sadly spoilt" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif i agree with the theory of them running in the garden of eden after they stole the apple of eden but i`d have to disagree with something that the creators didnt creat the humans 02 but infact they just how u say adopted them and rebuilt them in their own image to be their slaves and obey them but the humans 02 revolted and started wars thus leading (did i just say THUS ????) the creators to make the pieces of eden to control the humans` free will yet again, and i believe that all of this wasnt even on the earth ...yet so carrying on , the creators put the piece of eden in a tree called the tree of knowledge so that it may be away from the humans 02`s grips but then come adam and eve whom r prohibited by god not to eat from the tree but satan comes along and tells to disobey god and eat as it will bring great pleasures and they do so which angers god greatly and god sends all of them to earth, the creators and the humans 02 , after landing on earth adam and eve reproduce cain and abel and so on thus making the humans 02`s number far greater than the creators` but then a catastrophe happens that kills the creators and kills a great amount of humans 02 but not all. however the creators made statues of themselves and because all knowledge of them was lost these statues were all what remains so the modern humans thought that these statues were gods thus making god send his prophets from abraham ETC ....

Dudebag
11-24-2009, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by keepth3beat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dudebag:
I think one of those names was Eve.

I don't think this to be the case. A lot of religions 'borrowed' from one another, especially when it comes to Greco-Roman stuff, so when she said she was known by many names, I think she's referring to the fact that Venus could also be referred to as Aphrodite, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I know what you mean like the god of war was known as Ares to the Greeks and and Mars to the Romans.

But what I am trying to say is that it was Minerva claims to have created humans in their image and if we look at the Bible (I dont believe a word the bible says BTW this is just for the sake of the AC universe) which states that the human race originated from two people Adam and Eve, from the Truth Video it doesnt look like Adam and Eve are human but if we look at one of the glyph puzzles (the one on the origin of speicies) it claims that the apple was used to influence human evolution.

It could be the Adam and Eve used the apple to influence the evolution of humans in their own image and afterwards became known as gods.

Its all a bit sketchy I still have to watch the ending again but thats the best theory I can come up with.

Cirris1991
11-24-2009, 06:04 AM
In the aftermath of this great catastrophe, the "Creators" gathered together what remained of themselves and of humanity and began to rebuild, creating Eden and also creating the Pieces of Eden.

MethodiclyMad, I loved reading your posts, but I'm going to have to personally disagree with you on that point. Minerva says that humankind betrayed the creators, who created us, who gave us life. As a war broke out between the two races, a global catastrophe occurred. Are you assuming that the act of Adam & Eve stealing the apple is not the act of betrayal that Minerva was talking about? Because if it was, then Eden, and the pieces would surely have been constructed before the catastrophie.

But then again, that leads me to my next point. Where does the catastrophe lead into the story of the bible? I am kind of leading toward the great flood perhaps being this, maybe Noah being a creator/human, who saved 2 of EVERY being (human's and creators included). I can't wait to find out how the rest of the bible fits into the story of AC.

Was Moses freeing the slaves from egypt, actually freeing human's from the creators?
Could Moses have stolen one of the POD's to split the red sea (which according to AC, was an illusion)

I can't wait!

JudgeQwerty
11-24-2009, 07:34 AM
Hesitant to bring up the Jesus thing, but to clarify, Al Mualim only mentions his POE use. The Templar bit comes from the Truth puzzle, which seems to imply more that the Templars crucified him for his POE.

However, the weird bit is that in the Truth video, Jesus' POE is the Shroud and not the Apple as Al Mualim claimed. I found that odd, though admittedly, Al Mualim might have confused them.

As for the 'Luciferva freed the humans' idea, I have to disagree. You can clearly see Adam and Eve are running for their lives, terrified of being caught. It wouldn't be the case if they were just given the POE.

Coolgerb
11-24-2009, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by General_Lekauf:
what idiot does the science those idoits based on state the exact opposite you wear rags they dont evolve into cackys

My clothes don't evolve into cake? Aw dammit.

PlagueDoctor357
11-24-2009, 09:27 AM
Maybe Jesus in the game, is like jesus in real life.

A fake.
A Sham.
A Genius.

A man who smoked tons of marijuana, and ate moldy bread crossing deserts drinking cactus water (Peyote) getting stoned talking to burning bushes.

Was he real? Yes? Was he the son of god? No.

Just smart, he made people believe him with his SMARTS. As in, hey watch me make this fish into a RIVER full of fish.

Really, he was smart enough to know the day samon swim upstream.

Haha, my "jokes" aside.

Jesus wasn't a templar in the game, like an above poster said didn't he get killed for having it and trying to do good things with it?

jasminam
11-24-2009, 11:26 AM
Woah, didn't see this one on time.

Anyway, I'm sorry but I'll have to move this to the Hints&Tips forum.
For the time being, you cannot discuss spoiler threads in General Discussion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, thanks!

winkle1307
11-24-2009, 12:16 PM
love the theories. it makes it easy for idiots like me to get whats going on.

keepth3beat
11-24-2009, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by JudgeQwerty:
As for the 'Luciferva freed the humans' idea, I have to disagree. You can clearly see Adam and Eve are running for their lives, terrified of being caught. It wouldn't be the case if they were just given the POE.

Minerva could have been an outspoken member of the Creators and given Adam and Eve the POE regardless of what the others said. When Adam and Eve escaped, they could have 'demonized' (so to speak) Minerva, thus turning her into a so-called 'bad guy' simply because she was trying to do something that she felt was right for mankind.

Now, I'm not arguing that this is the case by any means (Minerva seemed like she was distraught by the humans' riot, so I doubt it was her), but I do think it's interesting. Assassin's Creed has always been about mankind's perception of the "truth" and how there is no such thing. And if Minerva (or, let's say, another Creator) were to be the one to give Adam and Eve the POE to free their minds, which eventually caused the humans to riot, was the Creator in question right or wrong to do that? I suppose it just comes down to who was answering the question.

Er, tl;dr, I think that it's certainly plausible that ONE of the Creators could be a Lucifer figure. It wouldn't make sense for mankind to put another man (if a human or something similar were the Lucifer figure in this universe) on the same level as the other God/s.

bango31
11-24-2009, 08:19 PM
This game made me respect the writers/developers so much more. The creativity they must have is absurd.

MethodicallyMad
11-24-2009, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Cirris1991:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In the aftermath of this great catastrophe, the "Creators" gathered together what remained of themselves and of humanity and began to rebuild, creating Eden and also creating the Pieces of Eden.

MethodiclyMad, I loved reading your posts, but I'm going to have to personally disagree with you on that point. Minerva says that humankind betrayed the creators, who created us, who gave us life. As a war broke out between the two races, a global catastrophe occurred. Are you assuming that the act of Adam & Eve stealing the apple is not the act of betrayal that Minerva was talking about? Because if it was, then Eden, and the pieces would surely have been constructed before the catastrophie. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I'm stating that Adam & Eve's theft of the apple was not the initial betrayal. I'd recommend you watch the ending another time and note the chronology of the history which Minerva shares. It seems to go something like...

1. The Creators find earth and create man in their own image.
2. They co-exist for some while, but then man betrays their Creators and initiate war.
3. The Creators are too bogged down in warfare to notice/prevent the impending solare flare.
4. The Creators and humans alike suffer enormous casualties.
5. Humanity barely survives, but as Minerva says, humans were made to be durable.
6. The Creators consolidate together what is left of themselves and what remains of humanity and build Eden to reside in, and create the Pieces of Eden in order to invoke their influence on humans heretofore. This was a fail-safe to prevent the happening of a second war.
7. Adam & Eve somehow become freed from the influence of the Pieces of Eden, swindle one and escape with it. As the story goes, they leave the Garden and go on to populate the planet with humans. Minerva doesn't touch on what happens after this, but she never alludes to the happening of a second war and/or betrayal, so I figure the Creators decided to throw in the towel and let humans dictate their own future from that point forwards, and became passive and left.
8. Cain slays his brother, Adam, and in doing so becomes the instrument towards the inception of the Templar Order, an organization fully privy to the existence of the Pieces of Eden left behind by the Creators, and which wishes to wield these artifacts in order to accomplish global dominion and power over the entire race. As history unfolds, the Templar Order busily works to ennact religion & superstitious dogma -- both to conceal the truth of the Pieces of Eden, and to rein in a form of mass control, ergo "accept Christianity or suffer eternal damnation."
9. The Assassins come along at some point as humans who've collected a rudimentary knowledge of what the Pieces of Eden are and how the Templars have been trying to acquire them, and align their goals towards the purpose of preventing the Templars from global takeover.
10. Now in 2012, a solare flare is set to devastate the earth once more. It's up to Desmond Miles and the rest of the Assassins to locate these vague temples which Minerva claimed could protect the earth and save the human race from extinction. The Templar Order, it seems, insofar has no clue about the impending catastrophe.

And I believe that's really all there is to it. Other than more vague mentions and artifacts and structures from the "Those Who Came Before," I don't think we'll be discovering any more "creation" history in the third installment. Minerva spilled the beans there, and if you lend a good ear to what she has to say, there isn't much left to speculate on. Further revelations about the "Creators" would just de-mystify them, when they're meant to be enigmatic and "beyond our comprehension." However, what we do have to look forward to is the state of modernity as depicted in the Assassin's Creed world when 3 comes along, and how Desmond will locate and activate those temples and save the world from certain doom.

I'm only left with one question: How did subject 16 obtain video footage of Adam & Eve making their escape from Eden?... Do you think he actually used the animus to go /ALL/ the way back to tapping into Adam and/or Eve's experiences? Could explain why the bleeding effect hit him so hard...

JudgeQwerty
11-25-2009, 04:11 AM
Well, that's what happens when you slowly destroy someone's sense of reality and lock him in with the Animus. Do they even get fed?

But you're forgetting one important part. Everything 16 learns is from roaming through Templar files and Vidic personally trapping him in the Animus for days. Remember, the video is clearly marked Session 12: [Date Classified]

Vidic and the Templars have not only seen it, they'ver had more time to fiddle around with the implications. Its likely that video is specifically why they pushed 16 so hard.

keepth3beat
11-25-2009, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by JudgeQwerty:
Vidic and the Templars have not only seen it, they'ver had more time to fiddle around with the implications. Its likely that video is specifically why they pushed 16 so hard.

I don't think they've seen it. Lucy seemed really surprised when you unlocked it--if Vidic had seen it, she would have seen it as well. I think they were trying to go the same route with subject 16 as they were with Desmond, and just trying to figure out exactly where the pieces of Eden were at the moment so that they could get them. The origin of the POE doesn't seem like it interested them too much.

JudgeQwerty
11-25-2009, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by keepth3beat:
I don't think they've seen it. Lucy seemed really surprised when you unlocked it--if Vidic had seen it, she would have seen it as well. I think they were trying to go the same route with subject 16 as they were with Desmond, and just trying to figure out exactly where the pieces of Eden were at the moment so that they could get them. The origin of the POE doesn't seem like it interested them too much.


Then why are the Templars exchanging memos about faking the evolutionary link? They specifically mention how much they hate the truth.

Lucy mentioned early on that Vidic classified several pieces of 16's experience. Also, the Animus wasn't designed solely to track down spare Pieces of Eden. The Denver incident only happened very recently and at no point does 16 ever mention it or any specific purpose to his imprisonment, nor any of the events of AC. As long as they had him, they'd have already unlocked the Apple's map if that's what they were after.

Neo_Age
11-26-2009, 09:59 AM
I think the game is more critizing organized religion, which by and large typically is a form of control. Remember one of the characters, Paola, believed in god (I think the christen god) but didnít conform to the organized religion of the catholic church (which was the church at the time.

As was pointed out, Tesla had an apple and was trying to use its power for the betterment of humanity but the templarís stepped in and stopped that and if you know how Tesla died, nearly penniless and I think somewhat insane it would make for a plausible way for the templarís to remove a threat instead of outright killing him, which would have drawn unwanted attention to Edison who was a templar.

Jesus when you look at it merely preached good will and so forth and never about inciting riots or going against authority. In the context of the games lore its likely Christ didnít know about the Templars, who may have been the Romans if not an element of them at the time (and maybe had a branch in Israelís religious group, given that biblically they were the ones that were ****ed over Christ). This would make sense, given Rome's attitude of conquering neighboring lands and the fact that they destroyed Solomonís temple, the site of where one of the pieces of eden was found in the first game. Its possible they knew the temple housed a piece of eden, but out of their frustration destroyed it after failing to find it but this is speculation on my part.

Hopefully though these answered will be explained in the third game.

Willem3rd
11-26-2009, 09:23 PM
The use of biblical references was interesting and I was hoping that they would go in a different direction, but unsurprisingly the game made by a "variety of cultures and faiths", it has an atheistic base of believe. Its interesting to see how unanimously the evolutionary theory has been accepted, even though there are many problems, like how complex dna is, and that no natural process can create anything as complex, just like I would not expect a book to be written by complete chance. I enjoyed the game, and the writers use of historical reverences was new and refreshing.

thekyle0
11-26-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't think it's possible for us to accurately classify Jesus as a Templar or Assassin at this point. Specific to Assassin's creed, there seem to be a lot of parallels between him and Nikola Tesla.

1) They both seem to want to improve the world.
2) They both had a PoE
3) They were both killed for their PoE

Now we know that Tesla was removed by the templars, but we don't know if Jesus was. The circumstances of his death seem more like the Templars would have taken him out. The assassins would have just stabbed him themselves, whereas it would be possible for Templars to use the established authority (Roman Empire) to get rid of him. I don't think that Tesla or Jesus were likely part of the assassin order but were just neutral, third party guys who found the PoE and began experimenting with it's power. They likely didn't even know about the Templar-Assassin war. Assuming this is true, we can draw another parallel to Shaun Hastings, who was a third party person that was doing something that would attract the wrong sort of attention from the Templars. What's different between Shaun and Tesla/Jesus is that Shaun didn't have a PoE, and he was lucky enough that the assassins found him first.

Dm1les
11-26-2009, 11:34 PM
The "Creators" are no longer corporeal and "of the flesh," as Minerva also says, and instead have been reduced to their spiritual essences (there were more than one in that vault, evidently).


Or maybe in separate vaults around the world. Each located at the temples or w/e they were that minevera tells desmond he need to find. Maybe they each have their own important information to tell you that adds on to the storyline. I mean why is she the one we get to talk to if there are so many others?
So at each different location we must go to in ac3 there should be a new "creator" to tell their story (sorry if im sounded repetitive)
Just my thought. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif