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Wildnoob
08-19-2011, 05:52 PM
WWII aviation experts, some of you could inform me where the Luftwaffe lost more planes in general, including non combat situations like accidents?

Ah, and if possible I need a reference from the information to use in a discussion.

Thanks since now!

danjama
08-19-2011, 06:27 PM
Hello mate!

Maybe have a look through here:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=18278

Here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/v...ic.php?f=69&t=151539 (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=151539)

And this forum may turn up some results:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/

JtD
08-20-2011, 04:55 AM
"Strategy for Defeat" by Williamson Murray is a good starting point. It used to be available as a free download, but the site does not longer exist. But I guess you can google it.

Short answer: If you count the defense of Germany as West which is reasonable to do, the Luftwaffe lost more in the West.

Kettenhunde
08-20-2011, 06:48 PM
4.06 times as many aircraft were lost in combat in the West than were lost in the East, a ratio reasonably close to Groehler's 3.41 for all "losses". The most chilling statistic for the JG 26 pilots appears in the sortie data. An airplane flying a combat mission in the West was 7.66 times more likely to be destroyed than one on a similar mission in the East. It is clear that the burden of sacrifice was borne by the Luftwaffe aircrew on the Western Front and over the Reich, not on the Eastern Front.

http://don-caldwell.we.bs/jg26/thtrlosses.htm

Bremspropeller
08-21-2011, 05:12 AM
Kettenhunde's quote also helps to understand why so many "Experten" were lost after switching-over from the Eastern Front to the Western Front or Reichsverteidigung:

The Tactical Challenges were completely different!

Rall said "It was easier on the EF - without a doubt!"

Krupinski said: "On my first mission on the WF I was like *gee, what a target-rich environment!* - on the second mission, however, it was me who took the chute!"

It's not entirely surprising that a lot LW-Aces got shot down after transferring to the WF.
The odds FOR surviving on the WF were pretty bad in the first place - a lot of allied aviators have shared the same fate...

BWaltteri
08-21-2011, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
Hello mate!

Maybe have a look through here:



Here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/v...ic.php?f=69&t=151539 (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=151539)




Kinda OT but interesting,
There was one post below that mentions 35 Axis planes being shot down in the air battles near Hanko during the summer of 1941. In his book, Jatkosota Ilmassa, Risto Pajari (a squadron commander during the war) has analysed the same info as following:

(loose translation p. 135)
"Lieutenant General Khabanov writes in his memoirs about the defenses in Hanko [Then a Soviet Base]. He depicts air combats and mentions many planes being shot down, and he adds the dates too. The list of planes shot down is impressive. According to his book Soviet fighters shot down during the period between June 22 and November 1, 1941:

3 Ju-88
1 Ju-86 [sic]
12 Fokker D.21
1 Heinkel 60
4 Bristol Bulldogs
30 Me 109
1 Fiat

in total 51 (52?) aircraft. He also tells that two floating Heinkel 60's were damaged and on November 5 two Spitfires were shot down at Hanko.

There is also another book [by Ivanov, P.V, Krylya nad morem, Moscow 1972] where the fighters at Hanko are told to have destroyed 44 enemy planes during the 165 days without losing any of their own planes. Also destroyed were one Patrol Boat, two Torpedo Boats and 14 other boats, plus hundreds of enemy soldiers and officers.

Ju-88's operated at the Hanko Front only few times during the early days of the war, and Ju-86's hardly ever appeared. We have no information on any losses inflicted on them. Finns had no such planes in 1941, nor had we Me 109's, Heinkels, Bulldogs, even less the Spitfire. Bulldogs had been relegated to training planes already in January 1940. Our actual losses at the Hanko Front were 4 FR's [Fokker D.21], 1 KO [Koolhoven], 2 CU's [Curtis Hawk] and one I-153. The narration of the attack into Turku Naval Base and planes destroyed there is incomprehensible, and the 30 Messerschmitts added to the list of victories look like some additional ornament. In his book Khabanov does not relate, neither do any other Soviet author, about the captured planes in our use even if they had shot down one."