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View Full Version : It is established that the 262 failed, but why?



HayateAce
02-10-2008, 10:37 PM
This thing flopped harder than "Howard the Duck," but why?

Poor design?

Bad CoG?

Fugliness?

Discuss.

All in all, a very homely ac.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/ME_262_2.jpg

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2008, 11:37 PM
based on that picture..

I would have to say shoddy body prep prior to paint application! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Skoshi Tiger
02-10-2008, 11:38 PM
By the time the 262 entered service in any numbers, the Germans were incapable of winning the war.

They were fighting on too many fronts and didn't have the resources or man power to win. No amount of 'wonder weapons' (baring the A Bomb) could have helped them.

The battle on the Eastern front was a bloody war of attrition. The bomber offensive on the Western Front was tying up the airpower germany needed to win in the East, and destroying the vital industries and resources she needed to support her war.

Patriot_Act
02-11-2008, 12:39 AM
I vote for bad tactics and training.
Germany could not have won, and by that time period they were being severly beaten.
But it's tactics that really blew it for the 262.
They should have been restricted to hit and run only.
Heavy piston fighter cover should have been present for takeoff and landing.
As to the mechanical side of it, there are many reasons.
Lack of high temprature alloys and the time needed to develop them.
Lack of time to weed out the many issues with the engines including turbine section bearing failure.
The aircraft was on the fast track to obsolecance before it first flew.
Not anyones fault. It seems that the airframe lacked the adaptability needed for a modern multi role
fighter bomber.

But the primary reason for faiure was tactics.
The Me-262 was the best operational jet fighter in combat during WWII.

P.A.

Capt.LoneRanger
02-11-2008, 01:12 AM
The Me262-squads usually had prop-squadrons to cover their landing and takeoff. (e.g. JV-44 "Papageistaffel" IIRC)

IMHO Hitler just failed to see the importance of the 262 for the war. He had delayed their development and production and by the time they were put in service, there was no time for lengthy training or developing of tactics.

Bewolf
02-11-2008, 01:22 AM
http://www.discoversouthcarolina.com/files/gallery/lg/fishing_girl_lg.jpg

leitmotiv
02-11-2008, 01:36 AM
"Silly bugger."

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/bar1.jpg

"'Established' by whom? The Three Stooges?"

Xiolablu3
02-11-2008, 01:51 AM
There is no way the Me262 could re-establish balance vs 3 world powers (at that time).

Gemrany did OK on in the first few years of the war, with its surprise attacks, and new tactics vs 2 World powers who were ill-prepared and using out-dated tactics. They also had Italy and Japan who tied up many British/Commonwealth forces in the early years.

However once the 2 World powers got their act together, and Britian had essentially beaten Italy, Germany was on the back foot by Stalingrad and El Alemain, and having its cities pummelled nightly by RAF heavy bombers in 1943.

Once the US, the third World power got invloved properly, and in numbers, it was all over. There was just no way Germany, with its few smaller Axis partners who were left could compete.

Even if they had enough Me262's, they would never have had enough pilots....

WN_Barbarossa
02-11-2008, 03:29 AM
"It is established that the 262 failed, but why?"

Should it have won teh war?

thefruitbat
02-11-2008, 03:57 AM
IBTL

Viper2005_
02-11-2008, 03:59 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4996268.stm

cawimmer430
02-11-2008, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4996268.stm

Awesome! This explains everything! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

RAF_OldBuzzard
02-11-2008, 02:14 PM
I would hardly call the 262 a 'flop'. The aircraft itself was brilliant.

The only 'failures' involved was Hitler demanding that it be used as a bomber, and the fact that by the time they entered service they were just too little, too late.

There were plenty of 262's built, but lack of pilots and fuel made them pretty much useless. Add to it the fact that Germany had lost air superiority, and couldn't give them adaquate cover during T.O and Landing. The 262 would have made a major impact on the course of the war if these problems (for the Germans) wouldn't have existed.

luftluuver
02-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by RAF_OldBuzzard:
I would hardly call the 262 a 'flop'. The aircraft itself was brilliant.

The only 'failures' involved was Hitler demanding that it be used as a bomber, and the fact that by the time they entered service they were just too little, too late.

There were plenty of 262's built, but lack of pilots and fuel made them pretty much useless. Add to it the fact that Germany had lost air superiority, and couldn't give them adaquate cover during T.O and Landing. The 262 would have made a major impact on the course of the war if these problems (for the Germans) wouldn't have existed.
There was lots of J2 fuel.

Willey cut his own throat by getting Hitler to rescind Protokoll Nr.11 which was suppose to have 100 Me262s produced by the end of 1943.

leitmotiv
02-11-2008, 04:00 PM
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/

luftluuver
02-11-2008, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
based on that picture..

I would have to say shoddy body prep prior to paint application! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Nope, just the application of the night fighter camoflage and Allies adding extra paint.

Taylortony
02-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Failed for 2 reasons, Hitlers delays in wanting it as a bomber that made it too late to have any effect and secondly for the lack of exotic metals therefore causing the usage of inferior materials in the construction of the engines limiting their useful life.

DKoor
02-11-2008, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
"'Established' by whom? The Three Stooges?" +1

Tater-SW-
02-11-2008, 05:23 PM
Was there plenty of fuel at airfields where it needed to be? What was the maximum number of 262s in combat on a given day, it was very low as I recall. Very small compared tot he number of planes and available pilots.

I'm out of my depth in the ETO (vs PTO), but I thought I'd read several sources saying that fuel was a factor in their infrequent sorties.

BoCfuss
02-11-2008, 05:23 PM
Tiger Woods is the best single golfer in the world, but, the U.S. team struggles against Europe in the Ryder Cup. They lose, all the time. I thinks its very similar.

ploughman
02-11-2008, 05:48 PM
Tiger Woods is single? All that loot and he's still soooooo alone, I might have to write a haiku to cheer him up.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
02-11-2008, 05:52 PM
The Swallow burns
A black smoke arrow through the clouds
Proves Tempest goodness

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

ploughman
02-11-2008, 06:11 PM
That's got to help the poor fellow.

If I might...

"Centrifugal flows
My jet whine, Woods...lonely chap.
Tees off...sip my drink."

Very zen, eh?

leitmotiv
02-11-2008, 06:22 PM
Long landing run
Hungry Allied fighters above
Cherry blossoms fall

or as Hemingway put it: The Short and Happy Life of Friedrich Macomber

BillyTheKid_22
02-11-2008, 06:35 PM
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/MrClivver/vinyl%20pics/SH106729m.jpg



Howard the Duck!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Low_Flyer_MkIX
02-11-2008, 06:36 PM
Hmmmm...we're getting somewhere. Let's try it in a modern or Tag-Ku style:

An accident
The swept wing thing
Was down to c.o.g - SAVVY?

EDIT: Howdy Billy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

leitmotiv
02-11-2008, 06:58 PM
swept wing for cog
a tough thing for
many to swallow



high ho, Billy!

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
Hmmmm...we're getting somewhere. Let's try it in a modern or Tag-Ku style:

An accident
The swept wing thing
Was down to c.o.g - SAVVY?

EDIT: Howdy Billy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Couldn't have said it better myself! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BillyTheKid_22
02-11-2008, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
swept wing for cog
a tough thing for
many to swallow



high ho, Billy!



I am laugh! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif



http://www.water-bongs-glass-pipes.com/ImgGalery/Dictionary/cigar-tube-and-cutter.jpg



Sometome! Cowboy Cigars. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
02-11-2008, 08:53 PM
Texas limo:


http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/texas_limo.jpg

CUJO_1970
02-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Texas limo:


http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/texas_limo.jpg


photoshop!!!!one11eleven!1

BillyTheKid_22
02-11-2008, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Texas limo:


http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/texas_limo.jpg



Howdy!! I am laugh!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

HayateAce
02-11-2008, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:


Gemrany did OK on in the first few years

Gemrany, FTW!