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View Full Version : Buying a new stick, need some help



biggs222
04-02-2008, 10:20 AM
Im planning on buying a new joystick (its about damn time too). Im looking for a nice twist rudder kind of stick. Ive been to places like best buy but they were either too generic looking or they had more buttons and switches than I care to deal with.

Id say my budget is about 150 USD.

if you guys convince me i may just go all out and get a regular stick and some rudder pedals.

blackpulpit1970
04-02-2008, 10:46 AM
My advice is for the rudder pedals, it helps your aim considerably and feels right when turning the plane. It also frees up your hands from having to turn while trying to aim or CEM. Look for CH pedals or saitek, I have CH pedals and have had them for over 5 years and they still work great, not one problem. The immersion and feeling is a must in my humble opinion.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-02-2008, 10:51 AM
Toss in another $50 USD and grab a CH Fighterstick and some CH Pro Pedals. For this sim, you will NEVER regret that purchase. You can always add a CH Pro Throttle later if you desire, but the CH fighterstick+pedals combo is the absolute best...period.

Oh, and as far as "too many buttons" is concerned, you don't have to program anything you don't want. But once you get used to the convenience of having a few more obscure functions mapped to your controllers, you'll never go back. Having CEM at your fingertips without having to look at the keyboard will also exponentially increase your situational awareness and improve your dogfighting skills.

Airmail109
04-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Rudder pedals are the dogs ****** once you get used to them

Hoenire
04-02-2008, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Toss in another $50 USD and grab a CH Fighterstick and some CH Pro Pedals. For this sim, you will NEVER regret that purchase. You can always add a CH Pro Throttle later if you desire, but the CH fighterstick+pedals combo is the absolute best...period.

Oh, and as far as "too many buttons" is concerned, you don't have to program anything you don't want. But once you get used to the convenience of having a few more obscure functions mapped to your controllers, you'll never go back. Having CEM at your fingertips without having to look at the keyboard will also exponentially increase your situational awareness and improve your dogfighting skills.


BUUUUUUUMMMPPPPPPPPP - this is spot on! Get TrackIR too if you haven't got it already!

noobisoft
04-02-2008, 01:42 PM
Can anyone tell me if the CH sticks (Fighterstick and Combatstick) have a built in throttle control?

I use a Logitech 3D Pro right now which has a handy little lever for precision throttle control. I'd like to upgrade and get a non-twist stick and rudder pedals, but can't afford a separate throttle control anytime soon. The Logitech does alright but the twist responds to a lot of unintended motion. However having the throttle control on the joystick base is very handy. Does the CH stick have a throttle control on the base as well or do you have to use the keyboard or a separate piece of equipment with the CH sticks? Thank you very much for any information.

Cheers

Black_Ops7
04-02-2008, 01:50 PM
By the way:
How many devices at once can IL2 detect and use for controls?

For example, can it detect and use this at once:
Saitek X52 pro
Saitek Pedals
2x saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant
and a usb chip to connect 32 buttons like this one:
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/

so beside usb keyboard and usb mouse i then would have 5 usb controlers connected.

I also play race simulation games like GTR2 and race07 and i know those race sims can only take 3 usb controlers beside keyboard and mouse.

Buba303
04-02-2008, 02:22 PM
noobisoft.
Yes they have throttle wheel.

Black_Ops7.
IL-2 can detect up to 4 controllers besides mouse and keyboard.

Airmail109
04-02-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
By the way:
How many devices at once can IL2 detect and use for controls?

For example, can it detect and use this at once:
Saitek X52 pro
Saitek Pedals
2x saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant
and a usb chip to connect 32 buttons like this one:
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/

so beside usb keyboard and usb mouse i then would have 5 usb controlers connected.

I also play race simulation games like GTR2 and race07 and i know those race sims can only take 3 usb controlers beside keyboard and mouse.

It can detect lots, it just takes a lot of messing around with config

I cant quite remember how I did it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
04-02-2008, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
By the way:
How many devices at once can IL2 detect and use for controls?

For example, can it detect and use this at once:
Saitek X52 pro
Saitek Pedals
2x saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant
and a usb chip to connect 32 buttons like this one:
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/

so beside usb keyboard and usb mouse i then would have 5 usb controlers connected.

I also play race simulation games like GTR2 and race07 and i know those race sims can only take 3 usb controlers beside keyboard and mouse.

IIRC Windows is limited to 3 (or 4?) USB-gamecontrollers.
You can assign all the rotaries ingame without any problem. You should take notice, though, that with this sort of setup you have almost 3 times as many rotaries than functions to map it to http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
IL2 notes the rotaries as Controller ID1,2, 3 or whatever and then the according axis.

As you can program the buttons of the other hardware you mentioned, there won't be a problem either.

Bearcat99
04-02-2008, 03:50 PM
Get a decent stick setup and pedals at this site (http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html) for under $200.

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-02-2008, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Get a decent stick setup and pedals at this site (http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html) for under $200. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

+1

Bearcat99
04-02-2008, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
Im planning on buying a new joystick (its about damn time too). Im looking for a nice twist rudder kind of stick. Ive been to places like best buy but they were either too generic looking or they had more buttons and switches than I care to deal with.

Id say my budget is about 150 USD.

if you guys convince me i may just go all out and get a regular stick and some rudder pedals.

That is what you want.... For the first year or so of using my HOTAS setup I used one mode only... but as I got more into the sim I started placing more stuff on the stick.

Stiletto-
04-02-2008, 05:40 PM
CH make the best most durable stuff, bar none.. But for the price going with either of those X52's are great.. Rudder Pedals are pretty much necessary and the cheapest way to get them would be to get a 20 dollar non-ff USB racing wheel.

biggs222
04-02-2008, 06:32 PM
ok i think ill give the pedals a try , but im not crazy about the CH stick.. its too much of a big clunker for me. im used to the smaller slimmer sticks with the throttle built into the base.

how does the Logitec Attack 3 stick sound?

and yeah my TIR is already on the way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

EDIT: btw the stick i have now is the old Microsoft sidewinder.

M_Gunz
04-02-2008, 08:31 PM
Logitech 3D Pro turns into junk too soon for the money, I won't buy any more of their junk.
For about the same money Saitek has the AV8R that lot of people here love.

Save money on TIR by using a webcam and something like Freelook (I forget the new one, it
doesn't even need the IR LEDs, just ask around) and dump that into stick & pedals.

Twisty stick is functional but a pain in heavy action. X-52 stick can be locked no-twist
and pedals used. The big things about pedals is don't get ones that are too small and
force your feet too close and don't get something that will break or wear out quickly.
IMO, home-made pedals can avoid both problems.

I like X-52 more for reason that the stick position is read by magnetic sensors. They do
not need cleaning or replacing like pots do. I have read again and again of people getting
the CH and then upgrading and/or replacing the pots. How silly considering the price of
those sticks!

I used to have an M$ Sidewinder that was optically encoded. When I upgraded in 2001 it
would not work any longer, I sent it to a friend on old hardware. That stick was always
precise even though it lacked features. It ran me $45 when Logitech twisty ran $35 but
it beat the H out of the Logi and of course M$ stopped making them.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-02-2008, 09:30 PM
CH Products FTW! Although I dont think you budget will get you what you need so perhaps an X52 for now. Save some money throw it on ebay and get CH later?

S!

WOLFMondo
04-03-2008, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Toss in another $50 USD and grab a CH Fighterstick and some CH Pro Pedals. For this sim, you will NEVER regret that purchase.

Not only will you never regret it, you'll never have to buy a stick or pedals ever again. CH stuff is indestructable.

And there's nothing "klunky" about precision. If you want the most comfortable stick ever created then look at the CH Flightstick Pro It has less buttons and functionality as the Fighterstick, but the thing is completely ambidextrous and soooooo comfortable. Combine it with some pedals and you're set. It's about $30 cheaper than the fighterstick too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

biggs222
04-03-2008, 09:24 AM
if i want the CH pedals do i need to get the CH stick or can i use the Saitek stick with it?... i think i read somewhere that CH products dont jibe with other products, is this true?

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-03-2008, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by biggs222:
if i want the CH pedals do i need to get the CH stick or can i use the Saitek stick with it?... i think i read somewhere that CH products dont jibe with other products, is this true?

Thats not true, you can use any mix you like. I have CH pedal, saitek X52, and use a saitek Evo Force for my stick and the X52 throttle.

Black_Ops7
04-03-2008, 09:52 AM
Can the CH fan boys tell my why the CH combat stick and throttle is better then:

1) Hotas cougar
2) Saitek X52 pro

I have held CH combat stick and throttle in my hand a few times and i think it feels like a toy.

i realy would like to know because i am planning to buy a cougar or x52pro or combat stick and throttle

JG52Uther
04-03-2008, 09:56 AM
They all feel like toys,as that is what they are.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-03-2008, 10:25 AM
CH is a company that makes and sells industrial-grade components for myriad applications that include wheelchair controls amongst others. They use the same internal components and as a result, their products are more precise and the durability is unmatched.

Yes they are still toys, and expensive ones at that but I don't buy controllers everytime I build a new pc. Their customer support is unparalleled and many of their employees, including Debby (Director of Marketing) and Bob Church (creator of the powerful Control Manager software) are both personable and accessible in the CH-Hangar http://www.ch-hangar.com .

So, to answer your question:

1. Durability
2. Precision
3. Customer support

The controllers you're looking at will do the job just fine and certainly have their own proponents. The Cougar has the potential to be a true top-notch controller, but usually only after considerable expense from aftermarket mods and the Saitek X52 is probably one of the best for the money with vast functionality and good software...they just don't 'typically' last very long. But as a simmer for over 15 years and having tried sticks from most all manufacturers, CH gets my money. Period.

biggs222
04-03-2008, 11:17 AM
is there alot of tweaking involved with the CH sticks or is it a plug and go type of setup (simple calibration)?

Ernst_Rohr
04-03-2008, 11:23 AM
All of the above points are good. Really, you cant go wrong with any of the CH, Saitek, or Cougar gear. They are all excellent, they just have some areas they are better in than others.

Out of the box, CH has the better stick from a precision and durability standpoint. The Saitek has a few more buttons and twist capability, but that same twist feature can lead to "slop" under heavy maneuvering.

The Saitek throttle however is excellent, and IMO much better than the CH. The CH is still and excellent product, but the Saitek uses and arced travel path for the throttle, while the Saitek is linear. Both are good, but the Saitek has a better feel to it. Just my opinion, but there are a fair number of folks that would agree.

Now, if you have the time and money, and some mechanical/electrical skills, the top dog is the Thrustmaster Cougar. A fully modded Cougar is probably the most precise HOTAS controller available, but it comes at a hefty price tag.

Now, as far as rudder pedals, CH and Saitek are both excellent. I have had both, and they are both solid. CH has better durability, but the Saiteks arent bad. The Saiteks are more widely spaced, which makes them a bit more comfortable if you fly a lot.

The Cougar has no matching pedals, most folks used one of the above, or if money is no object, they buy Simped's, which are great, but very expensive.

Now, as far as accessory hardware, there are a couple of items to look at.

If your already ordering TrackIR, your in great shape. The other thing I would recommend looking at is a CH MFD panel. That is awesome piece of kit, that lets you map keystroke commands from in game to a single button on the MFD panel. Makes a HUGE difference when you can map all your secondary commands to something other than keyboard keys!

Ernst_Rohr
04-03-2008, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by biggs222:
is there alot of tweaking involved with the CH sticks or is it a plug and go type of setup (simple calibration)?

All of the top end sticks come with programming software to map keyboard functions to the various buttons and switches.

You CAN use the sticks out of the box with basic functionality, but to get the best use out of them you will need to setup a profile for them in the management software.

The good news is that there are a lot of easily downloadable profiles out there for IL2 on any of the associated vendor forums. Those profiles are pre-mapped for IL2, and you just drop them right in and you can use them.

WOLFMondo
04-03-2008, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
Can the CH fan boys tell my why the CH combat stick and throttle is better then:

1) Hotas cougar
2) Saitek X52 pro

I have held CH combat stick and throttle in my hand a few times and i think it feels like a toy.

i realy would like to know because i am planning to buy a cougar or x52pro or combat stick and throttle

I've only heard good things about Cougar HOTAS but Saitek, I've owned countless Saitek sticks and they've all broken one way or another and I had 3 X52's all broken out of the box and had to be sent back. After that I gave up on Saitek. Its a shame they don't sell the X52 throttle seperately because that is a nice throttle, shame about the stick, which was also very very loose.

I've had my CH gear for 4 years now and no problems ever, they still work exactly like the day I got them out the box. In the 4 years previous I went through countless Saitek sticks and one M$ Sidewinder.

SeaFireLIV
04-03-2008, 12:13 PM
The AV8R is very nice. Simple, good feel and good number of realistic switches (you DO need buttons) plus 2 separte throttle controls (again use as you need but one day you`ll love them).

It`s cheap for what it does too.

Black_Ops7
04-03-2008, 12:40 PM
Well i am not planning on buying expensive mods to make my joystick awesome like:
http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb.html

So i should stay away from buying a Hotas Cougar?

So the only fight left is

Saitek X52-pro + Pro Flight Rudder Pedals
(Was also planning to add Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant for fuel mix and pitch etc but i read that having multiple "throttle's" are not supported by default in Il2? http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2741045185/p/9 )

vs

CH combat stick
CH throttle
CH pedals

I think i am going for they saitek stuff.
unless the CH fan boys can fire off more propaganda my way that will make me think otherwise.


By the way i don't understand that IL2 don't support Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant.
The throttle's are actually just analog axis's ain't they? Why cant you bind a "axis" to a function like fuel mix?

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
Well i am not planning on buying expensive mods to make my joystick awesome like:
http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb.html

So i should stay away from buying a Hotas Cougar?

in a nutshell...yes.


Originally posted by Black_Ops7:...
I think i am going for they saitek stuff.
unless the CH fan boys can fire off more propaganda my way that will make me think otherwise.


lmao...dude, spend it the way you want, you earned it.

All I can say is, I've tried them all and can only tell you what I've learned. I don't work for any of those companies so propaganda certainly isn't necessary.

Good luck.

Here's a quick list of the ones I can remember over the last 12 years or so:

CH flightstick (2 button)
Microsoft Sidewinder
Microsoft Sidewinder force feedback pro
Microsoft sidewinder force feedback pro 2
Logitech Freedom Force wireless
Thrustmaster Cougar (no mods)
Saitek X-45 (took one back because it broke)
CH Flightstick Pro
CH Fighterstick

The last two are the ones I've used exclusively for the past 5 years.

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-03-2008, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:


By the way i don't understand that IL2 don't support Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant.
The throttle's are actually just analog axis's ain't they? Why cant you bind a "axis" to a function like fuel mix?

Well, you can bind the axis to functions, thats not the problem, il2 doesn't support multiple engine inputs at the same time. What you have to do is select engine two, set that where you want it, then select engine one and adjust it, etc. With the fine application "Throttle" you can make adjustments to both engines on the fly so you move one axis up and one down then both engines will make the appropriate responses at the same time in real time. This wasn't done on purpose, Il2 was originally just a vey limited simulator for the....IL2. Then all the subsequent versions were built on top of that so by the time multi-engined aircraft were in the game it was too late to change the entire code to include multiple engine input.

Chivas
04-03-2008, 07:44 PM
I would still buy the Cougar for the Cougar throttle alone, and use the Cougar joystick as a button bay. It comes with Foxy software for button and axis programming. I find it very intuitive.

You can get the excellent Saitek Aviator for a few dollars to use as the joystick until you upgrade the Cougar joystick, although you may not need to after you get a feel for the Aviator.

The Saitek Pro Rudder pedals are a good choice or use the twist on the Aviator until you decide.

Personally I wouldn't touch the X52 with a 10ft pole. Oh wait I already made that mistake, lol.

biggs222
04-03-2008, 09:48 PM
ok you CH dudes, "Fighterstick", or "Combatstick"? And whats the difference?

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-03-2008, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
if i want the CH pedals do i need to get the CH stick or can i use the Saitek stick with it?... i think i read somewhere that CH products dont jibe with other products, is this true?

I used CH pedals with an X52 for a while when the twisty axis went out. It was probably the best thing that ever happened, because I most likely would have never tried rudder pedals. Now I could never imagine flying without them. I saved up some cash and got me the CH Fighter stick and Pro Throttle and its been simming bliss ever since. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I can see my CH Products lasting forever because the build quality is insane.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
ok you CH dudes, "Fighterstick", or "Combatstick"? And whats the difference?

Fighter stick, more functionality.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-03-2008, 10:10 PM
I think i am going for they saitek stuff.
unless the CH fan boys can fire off more propaganda my way that will make me think otherwise.

Look man, you asked and we told you the truth from years of experience and its far from any sort of propaganda. I have no stock in CH and they dont pay my bills but what they did do is provide the best hardware for simming known. CH Products outlast all others and if you spend sometime googling you will find it to be fact.

You can buy what you like and we will sleep the same either way. This is just friendly advise and nothing more. Good luck with your choice.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Personally I wouldn't touch the X52 with a 10ft pole. Oh wait I already made that mistake, lol.

As did I. Actually I really liked the thing...well up until it broke (less then 2 years) and the horrible tech support I was provided with. I praised the thing like many do while it functioned as a 150 dollar piece of hardware should. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S!

Black_Ops7
04-04-2008, 02:18 AM
I did not mean propaganda in a bad way/negative way.

I am more leaning to the CH products now because of you guys posting.

discovery_il_2
04-04-2008, 03:29 AM
Fu* i now saw this and i almoust cried (cyborg evo flight controller)i bought old genius fighter max joystick for 10 euros near 15 bucks us i realy should consult whit you next time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

bluedragon1950
04-04-2008, 06:21 AM
Black_Ops7,

- I have Saitek X52 for two years now and experience no problem but decided to try CH Cougar HOTAS next.

- I also have CH Pro Pedals Ruder and you can't fly IL2 without it.

- I just ordered few minutes ago a CH Cougar HOTAS for $178.49 (Tax and Shipping included)from DELL
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?s...cid=28139&lid=644117 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A0482918&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=28139&lid=644117)

Bearcat99
04-04-2008, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by biggs222:
ok i think ill give the pedals a try , but im not crazy about the CH stick.. its too much of a big clunker for me. im used to the smaller slimmer sticks with the throttle built into the base.

how does the Logitec Attack 3 stick sound?

and yeah my TIR is already on the way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

EDIT: btw the stick i have now is the old Microsoft sidewinder.

Saitek or CH... stay away from Logitech.. think outside the box... it may take some getting used to but believe me... a full HOTAS setup is what you want.. either a Saitek setup or a CH setup.. igf you go CH consider the throttle and the stick.. I have both CH & Saitek pedals.. I prefer the Saiteks... but CH makes good stuff.

As far as bang for buck you cannot beat Saitek... Cougars are nice but way too pricey to get them the way they should be if yo ask me..

Black_Ops7
04-04-2008, 08:08 AM
So in my break time at work i went to http://www.aviationmegastore.com/ thats around the corner and they sell all the good flight sim stuff you could wish.

So i held the CH stuff in my hands.
And the Saitek stuff
(Cougar hotas was boxed this time no show model)

And i have to say: Saitek feel 1000x better in my hands then CH products.

I was almost convinced by all the CH praise in this thread that CH would be better.

But now i am sure i am going to buy an all Saitek setup.

freakoutX
04-04-2008, 08:08 AM
Just been to the shop, held both ch and other brands, all of the brands basicly feel beter then ch does, it doesn only look like atari, but feels just as hollow and toyish , it may last a lifetime * i doubt it* but feels like toys

WOLFMondo
04-04-2008, 08:10 AM
If its a toy then an F16 has a toy for a stick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Black_Ops7
04-04-2008, 08:12 AM
Really? i mean come on.
Click a button on a CH stick
Then click a button on the saitek X52 pro or yoke.
Is the feel difference not huge?

or is industrial feel same as toyish feel?

freakoutX
04-04-2008, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If its a toy then an F16 has a toy for a stick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ye si know i held one and it does ;0 it feels toyish :0 in rl , im looking for a wwII like stick got any advice?

Black_Ops7
04-04-2008, 08:21 AM
http://www.simcontrol.co.uk/offboard.htm

price list:
http://www.simcontrol.co.uk/SPITFIRE%20price%20option1.htm

Maybe we can get discount when a whole group of flight sim guys place a large order?

freakoutX
04-04-2008, 08:36 AM
looks gorgeous, truly does, but in my opinion a wwII sticks needs ffb http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

biggs222
04-04-2008, 11:59 AM
well after careful consideration i went with the CH combat stick and the ch pedals (no throttle, im too cheap).

hope im not going to regret this.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-04-2008, 02:16 PM
And i have to say: Saitek feel 1000x better in my hands then CH products.

Your actually the very first person I have ever heard say that. I always found my X52 toylike and the CH stuff to have a hardy industrial feel to them even before I owned them. Preference is preference though and as long as your satisfied...

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-04-2008, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
well after careful consideration i went with the CH combat stick and the ch pedals (no throttle, im too cheap).

hope im not going to regret this.

If your worried about durability fear not, if your worried about functionality fear not. Save up for that throttle and your will never look back...I promise http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-04-2008, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by freakoutX:
Just been to the shop, held both ch and other brands, all of the brands basicly feel beter then ch does, it doesn only look like atari, but feels just as hollow and toyish , it may last a lifetime * i doubt it* but feels like toys

Have you ever seen the joysticks used by industries and the military?

S!

Airmail109
04-04-2008, 03:17 PM
Ive got a Thurstmaster Cougar with the Hal and Uber2 mods. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

My precious *strokes his cougar*

Mwwhahahahahahahaha

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-04-2008, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by freakoutX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If its a toy then an F16 has a toy for a stick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ye si know i held one and it does ;0 it feels toyish :0 in rl , im looking for a wwII like stick got any advice? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check this out! http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php

steiner562
04-04-2008, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:


Check this out! http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php
Time to sell the wife! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-04-2008, 08:51 PM
Time to sell the wife!


Dang! I already sold mine for a Xbox360!

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by steiner562:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:


Check this out! http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php
Time to sell the wife! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

QFT!

knightflyte
04-05-2008, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by freakoutX:
Just been to the shop, held both ch and other brands, all of the brands basicly feel beter then ch does, it doesn only look like atari, but feels just as hollow and toyish , it may last a lifetime * i doubt it* but feels like toys


Well you have many folks on here who give testimony to the quality of CH products. There's no reason for any of them to deceive you. CH is built well.

I've had X45, Logitec, Saitek EVO force feed back. All within a year got sloppy. I've had my CH for three years and not an iota of problem.

Buy the Saitek if that's what fits your need. There's no problem with that, and I hope your happy with it.

BUT CH will last a VERY long time. Many still fly on their gameport versions. They must be about 7 years old or more.

Any stick should be based on how comfortable it is to you. Comfort translates into enjoyment. Why fly if it's not fun? If I weren't comfortable with my CH I'd fly Saitek X 52 Pro.

Enjoy which ever you get, and happy flying.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-05-2008, 06:44 PM
Any stick should be based on how comfortable it is to you. Comfort translates into enjoyment.

+1

Bearcat99
04-05-2008, 10:47 PM
+2.. and that comfort extends to ones wallet as well... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Biggs CH makes good stuff no doubt.. I just happen to think that Saitek does as well... I think the only thing you will regret about your purchase is not getting the throttle... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Which can always be corrected..

LuftWulf190
04-06-2008, 10:23 AM
I like my X-52, and Saitek peddals. I have Tried CGH's peddals, but they felt way way too loose. I can't comment on their sticks or throttles though, but as far as their Yokes, Saitek builds a better yoke.

Black_Ops7
04-06-2008, 11:10 AM
Is the CH products Yoke totally different in build quality then a CH Combat stick?


Because: CH Yoke vs Saitek Yoke....come on thats no match at all.

ali19891989
04-06-2008, 01:55 PM
I'm also looking for a new joystick and i've skim read through this topic. Couple of questions though; What is the throttle on the fighter stick like, it looks like a mouse scroll wheel sideways. Also what is the tension like, i've been using a saitek evo (which just broke and I quite liked) but I dislike the looseness of it. Is the fighter stick better in this regard.


I think it would be between the saitek x52 throttle and stick or the CH one for me. I quite like the ergonomics of the x52 but really dislike the shiny lights space look of it although it doesn't really matter once it's being used. Having said that I have seen a cougar for a pretty good price. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Thanks for any help

Lurch1962
04-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Couple of questions though; What is the throttle on the fighter stick like, it looks like a mouse scroll wheel sideways. Also what is the tension like

I have the CH HOTAS setup. The "throttle" wheel on the Fighterstick's base has a very smooth action, with very little resistance. But it stays *exactly* where you leave it--no drifting at all. I've been using it for elevator trim, and the action is quite precise.

As to hardware durability, I swear that CH must have acquired alien technology in plastics. The stuff just doesn't seem to wear out! During the past 4 years I've probably logged an average of 10 hours/week, or a total of 2,000 hours (equivalent to 80+ days of non-stop action)!

I wonder how many stick throws that would be? I do a lot of QMB dogfighting, so in the larger scheme it's safe to say that the stick gets jerked 10 times/minute. (That's probably a conservative estimate, too.) 2,000 hr x 60 min x 10/min = 1,200,000. I'd say that's good potentiometer durability.

And the same potentiometers are still there, with no sign of problems yet.

bluedragon1950
04-07-2008, 03:42 PM
I have the Saitek X52 for two years now and decided to change over to the ThrustMaster HOTAS Cougar. The order just arrived today and I must say it's really impressive. I'm still working on the setup. After flying some quick sessions in QMB, here are my opinions:

- The Cougar joystick is unreal: heavy and solid built. I really have to use a lot of force to pool or push the stick, it gives me more immersion than X52. I'm afraid that I can't play long hours with this stick because of such strong resistant.

- I like X52 HOSTAS controller better than the Cougar because I have a small hand. X52 controller also has more buttons.

For now I'll fly with the 'SPAGETTI' setup:

Cougar Joystick, X52 HOTAS controller, CH PRO Pedals Rudder. I probably will reduce the flying hours because of the handling of the new stick >> less additive to IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

biggs222
04-07-2008, 06:25 PM
tomorrows the big day, Track IR, CH stick and peddals. i cant wait, ill be a new man. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

my days of "z" abd "x" button rudder-ing are over.

maybe ill even fly full "real" servers, oh the possibilities!

RockyAlexander
04-07-2008, 09:27 PM
Hey all, I'm new to the forum but have been lurking around since I was introduced to IL2 about 6 months ago. I have much to learn but I'm hopelessly addicted.
Anyway, I bought the X52 a few days ago, and while I love the throttle, I found the the stick to be way too loose for my liking. I gave up on it and switched to the Saitek ST290 Pro (great 20-dollar investment). This stick is far more suitable for tight, precision flying than the 52, imo. But now I'm getting pretty psyched about a CH stick, so I'll probably be ordering one up very soon. How precise is the control compared to the ST290 Pro?

bluedragon1950
04-07-2008, 09:54 PM
RockyAlexander,

I strongly recommend that you go to a store and try
the CH Fighter stick before you buy it. I have held CH stick in my hand to experience a few times and it's just loose like X52.

Lurch1962
04-07-2008, 10:14 PM
Bluedragon,
By "loose" I assume you mean easy to move, and not sloppy, right? If so, that's true. An earlier poster "complained" about the overly stiff throw of the Cougar, which of course goes to another extreme. But I'd prefer an easy-to-throw stick, what with my more gentle, artistic hands--effortless precision. Of course, it's all a matter of taste, eh.

But the endlessly reliable, silky smoothness of the CH stick is what makes it shine!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-08-2008, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by bluedragon1950:
RockyAlexander,

I strongly recommend that you go to a store and try
the CH Fighter stick before you buy it. I have held CH stick in my hand to experience a few times and it's just loose like X52.

I find the CH figherstick to have the most resistance and precision over any stick I have owned which includes: several Logitechs, MS Precision 2, and X-52.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
tomorrows the big day, Track IR, CH stick and peddals. i cant wait, ill be a new man. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

my days of "z" abd "x" button rudder-ing are over.

maybe ill even fly full "real" servers, oh the possibilities!

Congratulations. But be prepared to take some time getting comfortable with have rudder pedals. It took me a long time but once you do you will of course wonder how you flew without them. TIR will take some time as well but much less then the pedals in my opinion.

S!

Black_Ops7
04-08-2008, 01:04 PM
If i would buy a CH stick.
What models is best for IL2 and BoB?

Combat stick (more push buttons?)
Fighter stick (More hat type buttons?)

(And for you CH owners: Is the CH yoke quality a joke compared to CH combat stick and fighter stick?)

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-08-2008, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
If i would buy a CH stick.
What models is best for IL2 and BoB?

Combat stick (more push buttons?)
Fighter stick (More hat type buttons?)

(And for you CH owners: Is the CH yoke quality a joke compared to CH combat stick and fighter stick?)

The Combatstick is just fine for IL2, but I have difficulty recommending it over the Fighterstick. The Fighterstick has 3 modes and a few more buttons/switches. You may not use them right away, but you will one day and it'd be better to have them.

With my setup, the only thing I touch my keyboard for is to bail out, open the chat and hit esc for refly.

I know a few people with the Combatstick though and they love them.

Regarding the yoke...it's got the same build quality as their other products. That's one area they don't skimp on.

biggs222
04-08-2008, 02:43 PM
i have issues with the combat stick and the pedals.

when i have the stick connected it runs fine after i calibrate it, its a very nice stick... Except the throttle wheel doesnt work at all. and i cant seem to assign it any command in the control menu. my older stick would automatically assign throttle control to the slider/wheel without me having to do anything.

the other problem is when i then connect the pedals they seem to over-ride the combat stick and now my controls are solely through the pedals (with screws up the controls completely, needless to say)

what am i doing wrong?

biggs222
04-08-2008, 07:45 PM
anyone?

Thunderbolt?

Havok?

knightflyte
04-09-2008, 02:29 AM
If you're installing the pedals AFTER you've installed and assigned buttons for your stick I think IL2 gives the pedals the stick's ID#.

In other words. If you install the CH stick, IL2 will give it an identification number: (ID#1 - ID#4). You can see the ID number when you assign an input. For Example: the trigger assignment for M guns would be "button 1 ID#1."

The stick would be ID#1. Now, if you install the pedals, IL2 will reassign the previos ID number to the pedals, thus making all your previous assingments no good. Your pedals would now be ID#1 and the stick would be ID#2.

Connect ALL your devices at once and then assign button and throw commands in IL2 Control panel. This way each devise will be assigned it's own ID number.

Assign your throttle axis in the HOTAS section at the bottom of the IL2 control panel. Do the same with the pedals.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-09-2008, 05:53 AM
Heya Biggs. knightflyte is on the money. You need to connect and calibrate ALL your controllers through the Control Manager software BEFORE you start assigning functions. That way your controller ID# will remain static and your button assignment will stick.

Also, you do not need to run CH's Control Manager (CM) or use a CM-developed controller map for this sim once you've done your calibrations. You can simply assign your controls through the game with excellent results as knightflyte stated.

Once you get familiar with them, I DO recommend making a controller map and using that though.

Also (somewhat unrelated), once you get all your controls setup the way you want them and your in-game settings working to their top potential, make a backup of your conf.ini and Users folders. In the event you need to reformat, rebuild or just want to do a clean install, you can paste those folders and save all the time to setup your controllers again.

bluedragon1950
04-09-2008, 10:57 AM
Thunderbolt,

I acquired a TrarckIR 4 Pro about 3 weeks ago. I have a hard time to get used to it. The head view
bounces too fast so I have to keep my head still most of the time and my neck becomes stiff. I used Mossie's profile.

Do you have any advise how to practice on TrackIR and a profile for IL2 1946?

Thanks in adv

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-09-2008, 11:39 AM
Yes. Some of it includes some additional reading though, so bear with me. I'll find some more and try to help you out when I get home later. I'd advise heading over to the naturalpoint forums ( http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/04-community/community-forum-entrance.html ) for immediate assistance.

But suffice it to say, almost everyone that gets TrackIR and tries it out has troubles at first. It's only a matter of tweaking your profile, adjusting some sensitivities and , of course, some acclimation to the device. I move all over the place and have no issues with re-acquisition or head movement.

Bearcat99
04-09-2008, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
I find the CH figherstick to have the most resistance and precision over any stick I have owned which includes: several Logitechs, MS Precision 2, and X-52.
S!

The MSFFB2 is IMO THE best joystick ever. The solenoids in that stick do things no spring can do.

Black_Ops7
04-09-2008, 12:49 PM
You guys got me good with all the positive talk about CH Fighter stick or combat stick.

I almost set my heart to buying the fighterstick (combat stick is no where in stock in the county where i live) until i checked some pics again.



- CH vs Saitek pics speak more then words -


Rudder pedals:

CH pro pedals:
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_05.asp

VS

Saitek pro flight rudder pedals:
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_17.asp



Yoke controls:

CH Flight sim Yoke (aka the JOKE)
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_04.asp

VS

Saitek Pro flight yoke system ( It comes with decent throttle! CH yoke does not)
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_21.asp


HOTAS SYSTEM:

CH Fighter stick:
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_13.asp
CH Pro Throttle:
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_06.asp

VS

Saitek X-52 PRO
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_18.asp



Throthle quadrant:

CH THROTTLE QUADRANT (Aka the grey expensive plastic box)
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_12.asp

VS

Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant (Buy 2 and joint them or buy yoke + extra quadrant)
http://www.acealpha.com/new/product/product01_22.asp



And now it started my internal conflict again choosing between saitek and CH (I rather not have mixed setup like CH Fighter stick with saitek pedals en saitek throttle. yes i know its just me... or maybe i should mix to get good of both worlds?)

Well 2 more week until salary payment. Thats when i am going to buy one of them.

I think it would be cool to buy a yoke also for flying bombers with. Any of you guys fly the bombers with yoke instead of stick?
And if so ,what brand?


And if i am foolish enough to venture in the cougar way.... what upgrades should i buy (top2) and where to buy them?
Is the cougar straight out of the box with no mods that bad?

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-09-2008, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by bluedragon1950:
Thunderbolt,

I acquired a TrarckIR 4 Pro about 3 weeks ago. I have a hard time to get used to it. The head view
bounces too fast so I have to keep my head still most of the time and my neck becomes stiff. I used Mossie's profile.

Do you have any advise how to practice on TrackIR and a profile for IL2 1946?

Thanks in adv

I use the default profile, but I did edit all axis to smooth. I find the default along with smooth axis works best for me and have been using it pretty much since I got TIR over a year ago. Everyone will be different on this one because it a matter of personal taste.

S!

lightbulbjim
04-11-2008, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
You guys got me good with all the positive talk about CH Fighter stick or combat stick.

I almost set my heart to buying the fighterstick (combat stick is no where in stock in the county where i live) until i checked some pics again.

- CH vs Saitek pics speak more then words -

And now it started my internal conflict again choosing between saitek and CH (I rather not have mixed setup like CH Fighter stick with saitek pedals en saitek throttle. yes i know its just me... or maybe i should mix to get good of both worlds?)

Well 2 more week until salary payment. Thats when i am going to buy one of them.

I think it would be cool to buy a yoke also for flying bombers with. Any of you guys fly the bombers with yoke instead of stick?
And if so ,what brand?

And if i am foolish enough to venture in the cougar way.... what upgrades should i buy (top2) and where to buy them?
Is the cougar straight out of the box with no mods that bad?
You're right, going by those pics the Saitek stuff does look a lot flashier than the CH stuff. That's basically what it is IMO - flashy.

Here's my experience: I used to use a Thrustmaster Fox 2 back in the day. I decided I wanted some more buttons and macro capabilities, so I bought an X52. It lasted maybe a year of moderate use (mainly IL-2 and BF1942) before the rudder (twist) pot packed it in. I pulled the handle apart to see about replacing it with something better and decided not to bother, as by that time the stick had developed ~10mm of slop anyway. It was a fine stick, just not very durable.

So I picked up a Cougar secondhand on eBay, totally stock along with some Thrustmaster RCS pedals. Having more buttons and programming options was much nicer - there's no way I could go back to a Saitek as my primary controls. I've since put an NXT and hall sensors into my Cougar and replaced the RCS with Simpeds, and it's a sweet setup. A little pricey to set up, but solid.

I also use a CH throttle quadrant for auxiliary axes (multi engine planes in IL-2 via "Throttle") and I can vouch that while it is plastic, it is tough. And I like things to be solid too (a Cougar is HEAVY). A friend of mine also has a CH Fighterstick + Pro Pedals setup, and it's nice. I've tried it in both IL-2 and Condor (gliding sim) and if I wanted something other than a Cougar I would get a CH rig. The only thing lacking with the CH gear is rotaries on the throttle.

I still use the X52 by the way, but I built it into a couple of metal boxes with some switches and slide pots and use it for my flaps, mixture, gear etc.

My brother also picked up an X45 about a month ago (NOS - very cheap), and the stick is nowhere near as nice as my (modded) Cougar around the center. It is very notchy and hard to make fine adjustments until you get further out in the stick travel.

With regards to your Cougar question: I put modded gimbals in mine after about 3 months use. The main reason wasn't the spring weight but more the precision around the centre. It was notchy like the X45. This was especially noticable during things like aerial refueling in Falcon 4, where very small, precise movements are required. I put in IJ's NXT gimbals (really the only drop-in gimbal mod available these days unless you want a force stick) and replaced the pots with Cubpilot's hall sensors.

If you put in the NXT then hall sensors are required, but they are a great upgrade anyway as they are very precise (aerospace grade) and contactless (won't wear out). The NXT is milled from aluminium and uses roller bearings and extension springs to give a 100% slop-free and VERY smooth action. Around the center the stick is extremely smooth (there is no transition bump between the axes and no "center detent") and further out on the travel the spring weight gradually increases. I run with zero deadzone on the stick and normally linear response curves.

So top two Cougar mods for prop sims are definitely IJ's NXT and Cubpilot's hall sensors. IJ and Cubby can be contacted through Frugal's World (http://forums.frugalsworld.com), which unfortunately and unusually has been down for a day or two now. Give them a couple of days and they'll get it sorted. As previous posters have said though, for a Cougar + NXT + HS you could well be looking at ~$1K. And you will want some form of pedals too (if you have gameport pedals you can plug them into the back of the Cougar and program them along with the other axes).

Something that nobody has talked much about is programability. Basically, if you want to be able to program the stick to any extent you will want a CH or Cougar setup. The Saitek gear has basic macro capabilities but it's quite limited. The Cougar is more advanced and can utilise logical flag states, toggle functions and timers, and the CH has a complete scripting language that is very versatile. After using the Cougar I feel the Saitek sticks are too limited in their programability (for what I want anyway).

So basically, action-wise (IMO):

X45: Too notchy around the centre, questionable durability. The single spring system means it easily develops center slop.

Cougar: Notchy around the center if unmodded. Modded is awesome, but a little pricey (not too pricey for what you get IMO, but understandably too much for some people's taste).

X52: Smooth action across axes, but doesn't feel all that solid. The single spring system means it easily develops center slop.

CH: Smooth action. Has X/Y axis transitions, unlike X52, but the light spring weight around the center means it's not a problem. The stick feels very precise.

Buttons/programming:

X45/X52: These two are pretty much the same, except that the X52 has an extra slider on the throttle and a two stage trigger. The fact that they only have two hats on the stick make them somewhat limited. If you have a TrackIR this isn't so bad, as you don't need so many view controls, but it's still a pain.

Also as mentioned above there's no really programming capabilities as such, you can just assign macros to buttons and parts of axes. In the newer software you can also make any button a shift-state. To be honest you don't need much more programability than this for IL-2.

There is pretty decent support on the official forum (http://www.saitekforum.com).

Cougar: All metal (even buttons and hats) and HEAVY :-D. Being modelled on the Block 50 F-16 HOTAS you get such nifty features as four hats on the stick, a two stage trigger and two pinky triggers. The hats also move a lot further, take more effort to shift and don't go click compared to other sticks. They're cool. Also you can adjust the position of the throttle detents or remove them altogether if you want.

Since I hate GUIs I like programming the Cougar (you edit a text file). It takes a bit to get used to but the manual (in the form of help files) is great and James Hallows (who wrote the software) hangs out on the Frugal's World forum.

CH: The most solid feeling of the plastic controllers IMO. The spring tension is pretty much even through the whole stick travel, like the X52. The hats don't have the nice throws of the Cougar hats, but they do make a very positive "click".

Programability is pretty much endless if you want to take the time. I haven't delved too much into the CMS scripting language because I only have the throttle quadrant and I mainly just use it as extra analogue axes. Good support is to be had at the CH Hangar (http://www.ch-hangar.com).


So I think I've rambled enough but I hope that helps somewhat. Please don't think I'm bashing any sticks here either, I think they're all good setups (Ok, ok, they all feel like toys compared to my Cougar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif).

Black_Ops7
04-11-2008, 03:27 AM
Before you posted me and 2 friends already swayed over to the cougar side hehehehe finally our internal discussion about buying CH or saitek can be but to a rest.

We dropped the thought of buying CH or Saitek altogether.
We only need to know how much the ubermod2-nxt cost. and the hall sensor mod.

As for pedals we are still looking at saitek pedals. or if money allows it the simped F16


Is it correct that i cant find a normal webshop that sells ubermod2 nxt and hall sensor mod?

All i can find on google is home page of cubpilot for its hall sensor mod, but no order/selling page.
And for the ubermod2 nxt i can only find furgasworld links that are dead at the moment.
So i am clueless about the price.

freakoutX
04-11-2008, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
Before you posted me and 2 friends already swayed over to the cougar side hehehehe finally our internal discussion about buying CH or saitek can be but to a rest.

We dropped the thought of buying CH or Saitek altogether.
We only need to know how much the ubermod2-nxt cost. and the hall sensor mod.

As for pedals we are still looking at saitek pedals. or if money allows it the simped F16


Is it correct that i cant find a normal webshop that sells ubermod2 nxt and hall sensor mod?

All i can find on google is home page of cubpilot for its hall sensor mod, but no order/selling page.
And for the ubermod2 nxt i can only find furgasworld links that are dead at the moment.
So i am clueless about the price.

yes buddy we can finally get ourselves a nice cougar, and simped f16 pedals http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif lets mod the **** out of our cougars and go topgun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif yes feels good to know what to get, and hell im getting it alright! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.giftnx lightbulbjim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif for confirming our oppinions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

lightbulbjim
04-11-2008, 03:40 AM
You are correct, you cannot buy the mods from an online store. Both IJ and Cubby do the work out of their own backyards - The Cougar is a very DIY kind of setup, make sure you research thoroughly all the possible issues you may have to contend with (a bit hard with Frugal's down atm) like speedbrake switches, throttle rotaries etc. If you go to http://cougar.frugalsworld.com (when it's up) you can find this info.

As far as pricing, you need to email IJ and Cubby and they will send you out an info pack. I _think_ IJ may include all the hall sensor info in his pack, but best to email both anyway.

IJ's email: ubermod <at> optusnet <dot> com <dot> au

Cubbie's email: cougar-hs <at> att <dot> net

IJ should have most of the info anyway, and he's normally pretty quick to reply.

Eend
04-11-2008, 03:44 AM
I'll go for the Cougar too, but i'm slightly worried about the costs of this monster. First it's expensive, second it's almost mandatory to upgrade it with 3rd party stuff.

Could the people who already own a Cougar give an indication of the costs involved?

lightbulbjim
04-11-2008, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by freakoutX:
simped f16 pedals
Something to keep in mind, the Simpeds are all hand made in Germany by Deiter, and he hasn't been very well lately so the availability is subject to his health. I bought mine before he got sick, and they still took 6 weeks to arrive as he was backlogged with orders even then.

Black_Ops7
04-11-2008, 03:53 AM
One more time the saitek vs CH

There is a demo setup here
CH yoke (joke in my opinion) and Saitek yoke right next to each other....

Its not only the pics that look beter.
Saitek yoke is better, in every way.
Steel shaft vs plastic shaft that is open in the back to so it can gather dust?
You hear and feel some spring when pushing the CH yoke.
Hat buttons on CH yoke are loose/sloppy. Saitek buttons on its yoke are tight.

the whole feel when operating the saitek yoke is 100x better then the CH yoke.

bluedragon1950
04-11-2008, 09:04 AM
Lightbulbjim,

The Cougar: what would be the impact of the flying in IL2 because of the stiff center spring?

I just purchased the Cougar last week and really like the feel.

Thx

na85
04-11-2008, 01:35 PM
Unless you have rudder pedals, don't get the X-52.

The X-52 is nice and loose, with a huge range of motion, but only on the x and y axes. The z "twist" axis that you are forced to use if you don't have pedals has a lot of resistance, and the range of motion is very short.

As a result, I found taxiing very difficult, especially because on my desk the little suction cups don't stick very well and the stick base would literally rotate beneath my hand, negating any rudder input I tried to apply.

So unless I was willing to glue the stick to my desk, or shell out a couple hundred for rudder pedals, the X-52 was basically useless to me.

Friends don't let friends buy Saitek.

Bearcat99
04-11-2008, 02:32 PM
At this stage in the game and considering that most of the people in this community are over 25 and working.. I would say there is no reason to not have rudder pedals.

PapaLazarou.LoG
04-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Eend:
I'll go for the Cougar too, but i'm slightly worried about the costs of this monster. First it's expensive, second it's almost mandatory to upgrade it with 3rd party stuff.

Could the people who already own a Cougar give an indication of the costs involved?

Not almost, it's truly mandatory to mod it. Some years ago I got one new and the factory gimbals simply cannot withstand continuous force without deforming with time. As I played a lot lw planes without aileron trim, constant input was needed during flight. In a couple of weeks (!!!) the stick couldn't stand vertical due to a deformation on the part were the X axis slides (and there wasn't a lack of lube). Fortunately I got lightly used original über gimbals (it's a modification to original parts giving them strength and tight fit, and extra smoothness with bearings on pivots) which restored the stick to how one would except from the start. Keeping in mind that it's still very stiff and with marked X Y and center transitions.
Now if you have the money, a über II NXT with hal sensors might be the best stick you can get, with smooth travel in all it's range.

On pedals I have other recommendation instead of the F16C's, I preferred the gameport vario/pros because they offer almost double the travel than the f16 series (aimed for jet use), which is more forgiving on rudder input. They are also operated on cups, instead of the tips of your fixed feet. Other advantage is almost half price and if you desire, you can buy the f16 pedals with brakes as an add on, retaining extra range of action (which you can cut by software if you desire).
It's all a question of personal taste.

lightbulbjim
04-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by bluedragon1950:
Lightbulbjim,

The Cougar: what would be the impact of the flying in IL2 because of the stiff center spring?

I just purchased the Cougar last week and really like the feel.

Thx
The impact of the weight of the spring... Is only that you might get a sore arm after a few hours flight if you don't have the strength. It's just heavier than other sticks.

The issue I found wasn't with the spring weight as such, but when it was combined with the marked axis detents (bumps when you cross the x/y axes, most sticks have them to some degree) it made precision around the center difficult.

Have you ever used an X45? It has a similar issue IMO.

Like I said though I used it for three months before deciding to mod it. It is definitely better now with the NXT, but very different. I actually didn't like the NXT for the first week or two I used it because it was so different and I too liked the stock Cougar feel.

na85
04-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
At this stage in the game and considering that most of the people in this community are over 25 and working.. I would say there is no reason to not have rudder pedals.

That's a valid point, but for those of us who are in university still and not working, the 150 bucks US is pretty steep.

ytareh
04-12-2008, 01:46 AM
Sorry now guys to butt in on the mega bucks joystick party but I have used Logitech Extreme 3d Pro sticks for 4 or 5 years now and adore them .
I have tried a Saitek Evo Platinum (?) and despised its limp spring (attempts to tighten significantly failed it failed-and anyway Ive no interest in the fact its more comfortable for LEFT HANDED folk -it wasnt for me!)
The Holy Grail???!!!Cougar HOTAS and CH ProPedals ....Sorry to blaspheme but I hated,hated HATED them .Pedals in general just werent for me .Id estimate they put your flying skills back at least 6 months and the learning curve involved is way to steep .The argument that you are 'accidentally' brushing against/moving the rudder with twist stick can be countered by having the first section of the rudders response curve very low.#
Cougar HOTAS ...?Sorry but I found the throttle less sensitive than the one on my cheap stick.I could far more accurately set it to say 108% precisely and quickly.And as for stiff springs the Logitechs is far smoother and overall tighter .The admittedly granite solid hunk of quality engineering that is the Cougar has a spring that is tight in certain directions but its positively floppy in some motion aspects .One of the most popular Cougar mods is called an EVENSTRAIN spring replacement -need I say more .Should you seriously have to mod a top of the range stick!?
Sure the Logitech has a dreadful reliability reputation. I have bought 4 of them of which two are still 100% centering true.I defy anybody to find me a stick with a more anatomic handle(the Cougars is far less so -ok , ok so its a REAL F16 one ...) and tighter spring.
Imagine if joysticks were like graphics cards!!!???Hard to believe still using the same stick 4 or 5 years later

FoolTrottel
04-12-2008, 04:59 AM
I defy anybody to find me a stick with a more anatomic handle (...) and tighter spring

The Guillemot Force Feedback Joystick.

http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/22/91/8a/20298661-177x150-0-0.jpg
The Force Feedback joystick's ambidextrous/all hands concept makes gaming comfortable and fun for everyone. The double trigger helps to improve shooting reflexes. This stick also features an ultra-comfortable ergonomic grip covered with Kevlar texture, an 8-directional coolie hat, and rudder and throttle wheels. The heavy-duty, non-skid base keeps your gear in place. (Source) (http://www.epinions.com/S0501612-Top_Gun_AfterBurner/display_%7Efull_specs)

And it's got two big motors in it, driving belts to transfer the forces to the handle.
Them forces are strong, and one of the great things in IL2 is the varying spring forces when at the runway (low spring forces) versus in flight, at speed (strong spring forces) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Have Fun!

ali19891989
04-13-2008, 06:47 AM
biggs how did you find the CH stick in the end? is it working alright?

R_Target
04-13-2008, 08:51 AM
I haven't had any problems with mix-n-match CH & Saitek. Currently using MSFFB2 + Saitek X52 throttle + CH pedals.

JG52Uther
04-13-2008, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by ytareh:
Sorry now guys to butt in on the mega bucks joystick party but I have used Logitech Extreme 3d Pro sticks for 4 or 5 years now and adore them .
I have tried a Saitek Evo Platinum (?) and despised its limp spring (attempts to tighten significantly failed it failed-and anyway Ive no interest in the fact its more comfortable for LEFT HANDED folk -it wasnt for me!)
The Holy Grail???!!!Cougar HOTAS and CH ProPedals ....Sorry to blaspheme but I hated,hated HATED them .Pedals in general just werent for me .Id estimate they put your flying skills back at least 6 months and the learning curve involved is way to steep .The argument that you are 'accidentally' brushing against/moving the rudder with twist stick can be countered by having the first section of the rudders response curve very low.#
Cougar HOTAS ...?Sorry but I found the throttle less sensitive than the one on my cheap stick.I could far more accurately set it to say 108% precisely and quickly.And as for stiff springs the Logitechs is far smoother and overall tighter .The admittedly granite solid hunk of quality engineering that is the Cougar has a spring that is tight in certain directions but its positively floppy in some motion aspects .One of the most popular Cougar mods is called an EVENSTRAIN spring replacement -need I say more .Should you seriously have to mod a top of the range stick!?
Sure the Logitech has a dreadful reliability reputation. I have bought 4 of them of which two are still 100% centering true.I defy anybody to find me a stick with a more anatomic handle(the Cougars is far less so -ok , ok so its a REAL F16 one ...) and tighter spring.
Imagine if joysticks were like graphics cards!!!???Hard to believe still using the same stick 4 or 5 years later

Best post here.I have used a Logitech attack 3 (the uber cheap non twisty one)for over 18 months now and its still perfect.£20 and a 3 year warranty!
I do feel that there is a certain amount of 'snobbery' concerning joysticks in the flight sim community.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-13-2008, 11:30 AM
I do feel that there is a certain amount of 'snobbery' concerning joysticks in the flight sim community.

Simming is a passion. Much like hunting, off roading, archery, sking, ect. And with any passion you will always find the sense of loyalty/snobbery you speak of. Dont we all have a sense of snobbery concerning IL2 when compared to other WW2 combat sims?

S!

R_Target
04-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Best post here.I have used a Logitech attack 3 (the uber cheap non twisty one)for over 18 months now and its still perfect.£20 and a 3 year warranty!
I do feel that there is a certain amount of 'snobbery' concerning joysticks in the flight sim community.

Some, yes, but not all. I'll dissuade people from buying Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and Saitek Evo not so I can brag about my hot setup, but because they're garbage. The best cheap stick remains Thrustmaster Fox2 Pro.

Stiletto-
04-13-2008, 01:53 PM
Anyone remember that Suncom HOTAS setup in the mid/late 90's? I always thought those looked badass as a kid, I wonder if they'd work nice with a USB converter, or if they were garbage to begin with.

ytareh
04-13-2008, 02:27 PM
I may be the Logitech extreme 3d Pro voice crying in the widerness here but that doesnt mean I havent/wont try new/other sticks...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ThrustMaster-Stick-X-T-Flight-P...id=1208118222&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/ThrustMaster-Stick-X-T-Flight-PC/dp/B000U1OOH4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1208118222&sr=8-1)


Got one of these on the way ...I know its just the fairly ancient Fox (and even earlier Guillemot version?)dressed up a bit but Im still curious and for 20 quid its got to be worth a try.
This must be one of the very few 'new' joystick releases in the last 2 or 3 years

lightbulbjim
04-13-2008, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by R_Target:

Some, yes, but not all. I'll dissuade people from buying Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and Saitek Evo not so I can brag about my hot setup, but because they're garbage. The best cheap stick remains Thrustmaster Fox2 Pro.
I can't speak for Logitech as I was warned off it. Saitek I tried (X52) and I found the build quality not quite up to scratch.

The Fox 2 is indeed a good stick. The one I used to own, I gave to a friend and he still uses it. I simply wanted more buttons and axes, plus some programability.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-14-2008, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
...I do feel that there is a certain amount of 'snobbery' concerning joysticks in the flight sim community.


Not even a small amount here, but a good amount of passion. Especially when there are so many poor choices that could ruin many people's flight-sim experience.

As I stated, I've tried MUCH more than my share of joysticks and I am probably more dedicated to my flight-sim hobby than your "average" poster. Accordingly, I don't expect everyone to agree with "my personal choices" but they are made from experience and as unbiased as I can possibly be. I say Unbiased to include both personal opinion as well as cost.

I can say this, though, without question; If you're left-handed and want the absolute best functionality, highest precision and unrivaled durability in your flight controllers, there is no better setup than the one I have...period.

Expensive? absolutely. Take up a lot of space? yup. Will it aggravate your other half? most likely. Will it last a long long time and provide the most precise input for your virtual aircraft? No doubt.

Choctaw111
04-14-2008, 10:07 AM
I can never say enough about my CH controls. I have had them for 5 years, and they are still running strong, with no signs of wear. The ONLY complaint that I have, is no force feedback. I own the MSFFB and MSFFB2 and I prefer my CH Fighterstick over them.

panther3485
04-16-2008, 04:45 AM
All this discussion has got me thinking. (Dangerous activity, thinking!)

I have renewed my enthusiasm for flight simming recently, after a break of over a year. I had a HOTAS Cougar set from new and never modded it. It worked great for about a year, then the stick started to get sloppy and imprecise, with my aircraft beginning to wander off line and other woes. Obviously, something inside the stick had cacked itself.

When confronted with the cost of the mods (including shipping to Australia) and seeing all the messing around I'd have to do, I became discouraged and just put my Cougar back in the box, where it has remained ever since. The odd bit of casual simming I've done after that has been using a cheapo Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, which is barely acceptable but functional.

Having seen the very favourable opinions on the CH stuff here, I'm seriously tempted to invest in that and 'cut my losses' with the Cougar.

What do you guys think? Should I invest more $ in the Cougar or start again with the CH set? If I buy the CH gear, I'll have a Cougar for sale - if anyone is interested.

Fenice_1965
04-16-2008, 05:31 AM
I have an unmodded cougar likeyou.
The sloppiness is caused by wear of the internal mechanics, faster if the Cougar arrived without grease in the gimbals. I have modded the stick myself, replacing the weared parts with parts that can be substituted. Now the sticks works greatly, probably not as a NXT with Cub all sensors , but still better than any other stick I had (I got also a fighterstick pro throttle combo and used x45 and 52's). Obviously the cougar is a stiffer stick and if the stiffness isn't suited with your flying stile CH an X52's can be an alternative.
Progrmmability is unmatched by any other stick.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-16-2008, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
What do you guys think? Should I invest more $ in the Cougar or start again with the CH set? If I buy the CH gear, I'll have a Cougar for sale - if anyone is interested.


Totally depends on what you can live with. CH is incredible and most people that say they don't like them likely haven't tried them (I said most so those that aren't in that category...save your fingers). If you go the CH route, you'll likely not care what happens to your Cougar, but if you can afford to sit on it, you could peacemeal some mods on it over time and have a choice that most never would.

My one sentence answer: Cut your losses and go CH.

panther3485
04-16-2008, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
"Totally depends on what you can live with. CH is incredible and most people that say they don't like them likely haven't tried them (I said most so those that aren't in that category...save your fingers). If you go the CH route, you'll likely not care what happens to your Cougar, but if you can afford to sit on it, you could peacemeal some mods on it over time and have a choice that most never would.

My one sentence answer: Cut your losses and go CH."

As much as I liked the Cougar when it was working, the expense and mucking about involved in fixing it up puts me off, so at the moment I'm starting to lean towards the idea of going CH. However, none of the local dealers here seem to carry this brand, or anything really decent for that matter. Plenty of cheapo stuff but decent flight control gear is very rare here (I had to hunt around quite a lot for a dealer who was prepared to order in the Cougar a couple or so years back).

So, looks like I'd be ordering online. If I chose to do that, who would I be best off going to, for reliability and price?

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-16-2008, 11:22 AM
These fellers are top-notch: https://magnum-pc.com/Search/Category/?search_string=&a...arch%7Cshowresults=1 (https://magnum-pc.com/Search/Category/?search_string=&search%7Cmfgid=Z00430&search%7Cshowresults=1)

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-16-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm starting to lean towards the idea of going CH. However, none of the local dealers here seem to carry this brand, or anything really decent for that matter.

I got my CH Fighterstick and CH Throttle from Amazon.com for 213.00 US. I got the CH Pedals prior to them from newegg.com for 109.00 US.

S!

Sokol__1
04-16-2008, 06:26 PM
OT - Not related with our "the best stick is.." discussion.

But for yours with defective Cougars, good DIY low tech mods, whitout use of CNC late:
Ball bearing gimbal and.... wood parts!!!
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=ht...llbug.pdf&images=yes (http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fc6squad.info%2Fstock c6%2FTrollbug%2FCougar%2FMod_Trollbug.pdf&images=yes)

"Cheap" sensor hall mod - Honeywell SS495A + CDROM magnets):
http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=132677

If your "precious" are uselless he doesn't want to spend an arm and a leg... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sokol1

panther3485
04-17-2008, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
These fellers are top-notch: https://magnum-pc.com/Search/Category/?search_string=&a...arch%7Cshowresults=1 (https://magnum-pc.com/Search/Category/?search_string=&search%7Cmfgid=Z00430&search%7Cshowresults=1)

Thanks mate, but according to their terms and conditions they do not accept international orders, unless it's to US forces overseas.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-17-2008, 06:07 AM
panther3485 check pm's.

panther3485
04-17-2008, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
panther3485 check pm's.

OK, gotcha - thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

JG52Uther
04-17-2008, 09:39 AM
Well I have gone and ordered a fighterstick,after months of dithering!

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-17-2008, 12:31 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

stathem
04-17-2008, 01:02 PM
Has the Fighterstick got a pinkie switch on it?

lightbulbjim
04-17-2008, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by stathem:
Has the Fighterstick got a pinkie switch on it?

Yep.

JG52Uther
04-17-2008, 05:22 PM
Another fighterstick question:Is it 'plug and play' or do you have to install the control manager?
Only asking because I want to get used to the stick first before I delve to deeply into programming it,so for now I just want to assign functions in il2 setup screen.

Lurch1962
04-17-2008, 05:40 PM
Uther,
I can't say whether you can just plug 'n play and expect full functionality. At least, I'm pretty sure that you won't be able to use mode switching, which essentially triples the number of commands you can send from the stick.

I highly recommend that you install the Control Manager software. It has a "wizard" to guide you through the process of making a profile, and you can easily d/l an existing profile so that you don't have to type in all the command names yourself.

Assigning a command to a button is done through a GUI--push the button, its command entry fields pop up (as well as its being ID'd graphically), and pick the command from a list.

Try to do this right from the start, and you'll be glad you did. As you add the throttle/rudder later, integrating them into your HOTAS system will then be a snap!

It really isn't that hard.

Cess-Roborat
04-17-2008, 09:39 PM
Just thought I would throw in my two cents worth. I was a hardcore CH Products guy, but couldn't stomach the prices when they went USB, so I bought an X-45, which I liked, then upgrade to the X-52, which I liked even better. However, after much use I noticed it was getting a little loose. I currently have the X-52 Pro, which is a very solid stick. I like the feel over the standard X-52, however I have not had it that long, so the long term reliability remains to be determined. I will note, however, that I don't use the twist stick, I use the foot pedals from my logitech Momo steering wheel.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-18-2008, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Cess-Roborat:
Just thought I would throw in my two cents worth. I was a hardcore CH Products guy, but couldn't stomach the prices when they went USB, so I bought an X-45, which I liked, then upgrade to the X-52, which I liked even better. However, after much use I noticed it was getting a little loose. I currently have the X-52 Pro, which is a very solid stick. I like the feel over the standard X-52, however I have not had it that long, so the long term reliability remains to be determined. I will note, however, that I don't use the twist stick, I use the foot pedals from my logitech Momo steering wheel.

X-45+X-52+X-52Pro = more then enough for CH Fighterstick and Throttle. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-18-2008, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Another fighterstick question:Is it 'plug and play' or do you have to install the control manager?
Only asking because I want to get used to the stick first before I delve to deeply into programming it,so for now I just want to assign functions in il2 setup screen.

Id install the manager just in case. But it does not need to be running on the back ground or on startup.

S!

stathem
04-18-2008, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by lightbulbjim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
Has the Fighterstick got a pinkie switch on it?

Yep. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers!

I'm toying with the idea of getting one to replace my X-52 stick and I use the pinkie on that for push-to-talk; I'd like to have my fingers doing roughly the same things.

Trouble is, I only fly about 5 hours a month and don't know whether I can justfiy the purchase based on such a low usage. Maybe in a couple of months.

panther3485
04-18-2008, 02:22 AM
Whoever sent me that last PM, could you please send it again starting a new topic? I somehow managed to accidentally delete the topic and now I can't get it back. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

JG52Uther
04-18-2008, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:

X-45+X-52+X-52Pro = more then enough for CH Fighterstick and Throttle. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

Well this is the way I am looking at it too.I have used cheap sticks for years,with no issues,just expecting them to wear out after a couple of years and get a new one.After a while,I have come to realise that I would be better off just stumping up for a CH stick,and hopefully never having to but another stick!

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-18-2008, 06:30 AM
That's simply sound reasoning Uther. Regarding your question about the CM software, you absolutely SHOULD install it to calibrate your stick (or CH throttle, or CH pedals) but you do NOT need to keep it running nor do you need to use any of the CM map functions in order to use the controllers.

Install the CM software, make sure it recognizes your controller(s) and use the calibrate function. Then you can simply close it out and assign functions through the game.

Bookmark this site: http://www.ch-hangar.com/ as it is the ultimate resource for anything CH related.

Also, here's a link to a an introduction/guide/tutorial to Control Manager for dummies (no offense).
http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2017

JG52Uther
04-20-2008, 05:34 AM
Well,it arrived! First impressions when opening the box were 'Is that it?'
It does not look anything special,quite big but very lightweight.
When you plug it in though and assign controls in game,you get the feeling that it is something special.All the controls work very nicely,the stick is very smooth,with a long 'throw',and when flying everything is just so much smoother! As an example,flying a 109 with my other sticks,the plane jumps around a bit and does not fly straight without constant stick inputs.With the fighterstick all that is gone,the 109 flies steady as a rock!The CM software is pretty daunting,but I have made a simple map just to have ventrillo on the pinkie switch.
I like the stick so much,and is so precise,that I don't think I am going to use my X45 throttle at all,and just use the throttle wheel on the fighterstick for now until in the future I can get a CH throttle!
I can see now why everyone raves about this thing,I really had no idea the difference it would make.
Hopefully I will never have to buy another joystick!

panther3485
04-20-2008, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Well,it arrived! First impressions when opening the box were 'Is that it?'
It does not look anything special,quite big but very lightweight.
When you plug it in though and assign controls in game,you get the feeling that it is something special.All the controls work very nicely,the stick is very smooth,with a long 'throw',and when flying everything is just so much smoother! As an example,flying a 109 with my other sticks,the plane jumps around a bit and does not fly straight without constant stick inputs.With the fighterstick all that is gone,the 109 flies steady as a rock!The CM software is pretty daunting,but I have made a simple map just to have ventrillo on the pinkie switch.
I like the stick so much,and is so precise,that I don't think I am going to use my X45 throttle at all,and just use the throttle wheel on the fighterstick for now until in the future I can get a CH throttle!
I can see now why everyone raves about this thing,I really had no idea the difference it would make.
Hopefully I will never have to buy another joystick!

That's really good, mate, and has added to my resolve that I will now almost certainly be getting a CH setup. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-20-2008, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Well,it arrived! First impressions when opening the box were 'Is that it?'
It does not look anything special,quite big but very lightweight.
When you plug it in though and assign controls in game,you get the feeling that it is something special.All the controls work very nicely,the stick is very smooth,with a long 'throw',and when flying everything is just so much smoother! As an example,flying a 109 with my other sticks,the plane jumps around a bit and does not fly straight without constant stick inputs.With the fighterstick all that is gone,the 109 flies steady as a rock!The CM software is pretty daunting,but I have made a simple map just to have ventrillo on the pinkie switch.
I like the stick so much,and is so precise,that I don't think I am going to use my X45 throttle at all,and just use the throttle wheel on the fighterstick for now until in the future I can get a CH throttle!
I can see now why everyone raves about this thing,I really had no idea the difference it would make.
Hopefully I will never have to buy another joystick!

See! We would never lie to ya. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Congrats man! You will be just as impressed by the throttle btw.

S!

sc1949
04-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by panther3485:

That's really good, mate, and has added to my resolve that I will now almost certainly be getting a CH setup. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Panther, this might help you mate,

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=CH+Fighterstick

I use StaticIce, http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=CH+Fighterstick it finds best prices in Australia, this search showed CH Products fighterstick Pro USB at $149.00, and CH Products F-16 Fighterstick USB at $191.85, Australian Dollars too. These are the best returned prices.

Not sure what the difference in the 2 sticks are, someone here will know.

panther3485
04-21-2008, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by sc1949:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by panther3485:

That's really good, mate, and has added to my resolve that I will now almost certainly be getting a CH setup. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Panther, this might help you mate,

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=CH+Fighterstick

I use StaticIce, http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=CH+Fighterstick it finds best prices in Australia, this search showed CH Products fighterstick Pro USB at $149.00, and CH Products F-16 Fighterstick USB at $191.85, Australian Dollars too. These are the best returned prices.

Not sure what the difference in the 2 sticks are, someone here will know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brilliant, thanks a lot mate - that's really good and the prices look very reasonable, when taking into account the exchange rate and the prices in US$.

I think I know what my birthday present is likely to be now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-21-2008, 10:35 AM
Uther,

The Fighterstick isn't what I would call light, but during moments of heavy maneuvering, it can slide or move at times. My simple solution is to cut 4 small 1" squares of velcro and afix them to my cockpit. My controllers never move unless I want them to.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Black_Ops7
04-24-2008, 02:14 PM
Did the CH pro throttle have some resistance to it when moving it forward (and backward) ???

Long time ago that i hold it, i remember almost no resistance in the movement compared to x45,x52 and cougar throttle.

Lurch1962
04-24-2008, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
Did the CH pro throttle have some resistance to it when moving it forward (and backward) ???

Long time ago that i hold it, i remember almost no resistance in the movement compared to x45,x52 and cougar throttle.

Very little friction, I'd say. But I like it this way, for two reasons...

1) When slamming the throttle between the stops when in a furball, it's nice to not to have to "fight" it.

1) The lighter touch means that you don't have to clamp it down on your desk if you don't want to.

Besides, the action is purely horizontal, i.e., not rotational, and therefore stays right where you leave it at all positions.

Black_Ops7
04-25-2008, 10:47 AM
I have finally joint a side.

No its not saitek,

No its not CH plastic fantastic.


My money went to a Cougar.
Man got to love that solid cold steel feel.

Next month some Saitek pedals and i am complete

DustyBarrels77
04-26-2008, 11:02 AM
Seriously buy all CH products everything else breaks much quicker and pots get off center. Take my word on this one, I had everything from the cougar to the msffb over the last 15 years, plus review sticks for a couple gaming mags. The cougar is built well but its not very functional and to me it was nothing more then a heavy paperweightm i did all the mods to it all that stuff which really didnt make a difference and wa lucky to sell it for 300 during cfs2 days. Its a good stick for lomac and jet games but for this game with alot of buttons its no good

Black_Ops7
04-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by DustyBarrels77:
Seriously buy all CH products everything else breaks much quicker and pots get off center. Take my word on this one, I had everything from the cougar to the msffb over the last 15 years, plus review sticks for a couple gaming mags. The cougar is built well but its not very functional and to me it was nothing more then a heavy paperweightm i did all the mods to it all that stuff which really didnt make a difference and wa lucky to sell it for 300 during cfs2 days. Its a good stick for lomac and jet games but for this game with alot of buttons its no good

WW2 planes had almost no buttons on the sticks
So have this many buttons is already luxury for my simpit.
Did the uber2 nxt mod + hall sensors already exist in your time with the cougar?

Yes i know a F16 stick in a ww2 simpit is not realistic but at least i get the feel of cold steel , and not plastic fantastic feel.

panther3485
04-26-2008, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DustyBarrels77:
Seriously buy all CH products everything else breaks much quicker and pots get off center. Take my word on this one, I had everything from the cougar to the msffb over the last 15 years, plus review sticks for a couple gaming mags. The cougar is built well but its not very functional and to me it was nothing more then a heavy paperweightm i did all the mods to it all that stuff which really didnt make a difference and wa lucky to sell it for 300 during cfs2 days. Its a good stick for lomac and jet games but for this game with alot of buttons its no good

WW2 planes had almost no buttons on the sticks
So have this many buttons is already luxury for my simpit.
Did the uber2 nxt mod + hall sensors already exist in your time with the cougar?

Yes i know a F16 stick in a ww2 simpit is not realistic but at least i get the feel of cold steel , and not plastic fantastic feel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like to fly WW2, modern jet sims, combat helicopter and civvy. Am I gonna have four different flight control rigs? No way, I'll pick one that'll do for the lot. This used to be a Cougar and Elite rudder pedals. Since the demise of my Cougar I've decided to go for a full CH outfit (pedals, throttle & stick). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-26-2008, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
I have finally joint a side.

No its not saitek,

No its not CH plastic fantastic.


My money went to a Cougar.
Man got to love that solid cold steel feel.

Next month some Saitek pedals and i am complete

We will see ya in a week or two when your selling it on ebay to get CH. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

Fenice_1965
04-26-2008, 04:44 PM
I have Fighterstick and pro throttle combo and a cougar, At the moment I use cougar even if it gave me the usual problems of mechanical wearing. I modded ot myself and now it works flawlessly. I think that the biggest difference between them is the stifness of the stick. I'm used to it and love it, but I think many props flyers will prefer the feel of ch. The reason is that when you fly props you have to move the stick fastest and harder then flying jets, where calibrated movements are the regula.
On the other side Cougar has trimming wheels and CH not, wich I think are superior for trimming. Programmability of Cougar is Unmatched.
In any case, CH is far more reliable out of the box and if you don't like stiffness you have no choice than CH. IF you're prepared to spend the money of the mods things are different bat stifness is still more in the Cougar.

Black_Ops7
04-29-2008, 10:31 AM
yo CH owners,

I have a question.
Yes i am a proud owner of a cougar now.
But because you guys praise CH to heaven and back and are so positive about your stick something keeps letting me think to buy a CH set.

In the past i have bought all gaming grade mice, and gaming grade mouse pads etc etc to search for the ultimate in controle for FPS or RTS.

Now i have the feeling my buying spree will begin again but this time for ww2 flight sim controlers.
Lucky for my there are only 3 brands to consider and almost as mutch sticks.
Saitek X520 pro , TH Cougar , CH Fightetstick and throttle.

I am sure i don't want to try the X52 pro anymore now that i got a Cougar.
But because of you guys praising the CH fighter stick (and throttle?) to heaven i am so curious about it.

The only CH dealer in Holland stopped actively selling the CH fighter stick and throttle so there is no way for me to hold one in my hands. (But from memory: It sucks, specially throttle made bad impression on me. the zero resistance part of it)


But i decided to buy a CH fighter stick and throttle anyway somewhere after summer 2008.
My only questions is:

CH Pedals....
How can you praise it?
How can you defend it against clearly better product: Saitek Pedals?

I am a person who liked to play/have things in 1 brand.
So for example Saitek X52,Saitek pedals,Saitek throttle quadrant.
Or CH Fighter stick, CH Throttle,CH pedals,CH MFP.

But sometimes you are just forced to buy and mix brands to have the better hardware.

So what make you CH only owners think that CH pedals are better then Saitek Pedals?

My final perpose is to have a WW2 simpit.
If i would have CH setup then i would have CH pedals but CH pedals make your feet/legs sit so close to each other, i don't think there is any room to put a Fighter stick or cougar between my legs in a simpit??
And Saitek Pedals have way more space between the pedals so you can sit more with wide legs, more relax and with space to put a stick between your legs.

So i am hoping that CH owners could tell me something to change my mind (Or not if they do say saitek pedals are better for feet position etc)

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-29-2008, 10:43 AM
Saitek pedals are better for foot-position. That's about it. For me, they wouldn't fit inside my sim pit and the Saitek pedals don't work nearly as well for some of the racing sims I dabble in now and then. I've also had my CH pedals for almost 5 years with almost daily use and have never had to recalibrate them nor have I had any other problems.

Pedals, IMO, are more of a "whatever you want" kind of decision because both are pretty good.

Here's a quote from a pilot in the Forgotten Skies forum regarding his Saitek pedals:


"My rudder pedals have seized up anyone else have this issue..they are only 5 weeks old...other problem with these pedals are that the Saitek hotas will only function with Saitek rudder pedals...before you buy look carefully"

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-29-2008, 04:30 PM
I tried the Saitek pedals while visiting Pappy last fall and they are comfortable and wider. But I did not get that quality build feeling or the level of precision I do with my CH pedals. I have another squad member who owns the Siatek pedals and his broke already inside a year. So ya, Im taking CH all the way.

S!

dirkpit7
04-30-2008, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...other problem with these pedals are that the Saitek hotas will only function with Saitek rudder pedals...before you buy look carefully" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does this actually mean? Obviously the hotas works without the pedals, but does this mean that Saitek hotas will not work together with CH pedals? That if you have Saitek hotas you can have Saitek pedals only?

That would be bad news for me as I was planning to get CH pedals to use with my X52 Pro.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-30-2008, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by dirkpit7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...other problem with these pedals are that the Saitek hotas will only function with Saitek rudder pedals...before you buy look carefully" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does this actually mean? Obviously the hotas works without the pedals, but does this mean that Saitek hotas will not work together with CH pedals? That if you have Saitek hotas you can have Saitek pedals only?

That would be bad news for me as I was planning to get CH pedals to use with my X52 Pro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CH Pedals work fine with the X52. I actually ran that set up for several months before replacing the X52 with CH.

S!

dirkpit7
04-30-2008, 01:01 PM
OK, good to hear that.

Thanks Havok.

steiner562
06-17-2008, 06:59 PM
Have a Ch fighter stick on the way was a Birthday present,currently my set up is saitek pedals x-52 throttle and and a cyborg gold which lasted me years,I got one of the first x52 stixks which just truely sucked used only as a button bay and went back to cyborg golds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif,love the x-52 throttle though.

glvaca
09-02-2008, 03:33 PM
Hi guys,

Just got myself a CH fighterstick in no small part due to the recommendations on this forum.

I absolutely love the fighterstick, it's so smooth I can' tbelive it after my traumatising experience with the X52Pro.

But here's the thing, how do I get it to work prperly with the saitek X52pro throthle and pedals? I can't get IL2 to recognize anything but the fighterstick.

I can assign the throtle axis and rotary in the Hotas setup, including buttons so that helps. I can aslo assign the saitek rudder but I get a lot of false input when playing the game. the extra input is from the pedal I push forward when assigning the rudder in the game. So if I push the right rudder i drift right, left I drift left.

How have other mixed users fixed this problem?

I also have IL-joycontrol installed.

Thanks a lot for any hints or tips!!

Best,
Vaca

panther3485
09-03-2008, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by glvaca:
Hi guys,

Just got myself a CH fighterstick in no small part due to the recommendations on this forum.

I absolutely love the fighterstick, it's so smooth I can' tbelive it after my traumatising experience with the X52Pro.

But here's the thing, how do I get it to work prperly with the saitek X52pro throthle and pedals? I can't get IL2 to recognize anything but the fighterstick.

I can assign the throtle axis and rotary in the Hotas setup, including buttons so that helps. I can aslo assign the saitek rudder but I get a lot of false input when playing the game. the extra input is from the pedal I push forward when assigning the rudder in the game. So if I push the right rudder i drift right, left I drift left.

How have other mixed users fixed this problem?

I also have IL-joycontrol installed.

Thanks a lot for any hints or tips!!

Best,
Vaca

Following advice from some of the members here, I decided to order CH flight controls. About six weeks ago, I took delivery of the following:

CH Fighterstick
CH Pro Throttle
CH Pro Pedals

Prior to this, the best flight control set I had owned was a Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar stick and throttle, with Elite rudder pedals, which was excellent except that after only about one year the stick started to get sloppy and erratic.

The CH set is smooth, precise and very user-friendly, the stick in particular being extremely light (in stark contrast to the Cougar which was the 'heaviest' stick I had ever experienced - and I've tried quite a few). While the CH set may lack the weight and 'solidity' of the Cougar it certainly is a dream to use and time will tell regarding longevity. If the testimony of others here is anything to go by, I should be able to expect long life from this gear. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

The Cougar is back in its box. I haven't yet decided what to do with it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Bearcat99
09-03-2008, 05:56 AM
The MSFFB2 is the best joystick ever made. Bar none. I still have my original one from 2001 and it still works.. My son uses it. Not only that.. the solenoids in that stick do things no spring can do.

potver
09-03-2008, 06:05 AM
I agree with that, I have a M Sidewinder Prec. 2
for 5 years and connected on Hoffman pedals.
Besides, I,ve 3 new Sidewinders in the cupboard as spares.(Lucky me)

panther3485
09-03-2008, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The MSFFB2 is the best joystick ever made. Bar none. I still have my original one from 2001 and it still works.. My son uses it. Not only that.. the solenoids in that stick do things no spring can do.

Can't say I've ever tried one of those but then the idea of FFB never appealed to me either.

rat0a
09-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by panther3485:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The MSFFB2 is the best joystick ever made. Bar none. I still have my original one from 2001 and it still works.. My son uses it. Not only that.. the solenoids in that stick do things no spring can do.

Can't say I've ever tried one of those but then the idea of FFB never appealed to me either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like Bearcat I own one of those MSFF2 since 2001
and sincerely I can't use anything else did try one spring joystick MSSW but it was not my cup of tea just recently got pedals (ch pro) and my ch throttle is on his way to me