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adlabs6
07-04-2003, 03:48 AM
Hello, some of you will remember my 'cockpit' chair that I posted here a while back. Well now I've got some rudders to use with it! I don't want to pay for a set of pedals, though I did consider buying a cheap $20 steering wheel controller just to use the pedals from it, but the pedals on the display looked like they should only cost $3 so I skipped it.

So what I did was convert an old twist handle joystick for the job. Last night I was discussing with Bearcat some different joystick combos, and this popped into my mind.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/pedal2.JPG


This pic shows pretty clearly what I've done. I took an old Wingman Extreme 3D, and attached a wooden bar across the rear of the handle. Earlier I had tested it with tape to verify the concept. That is a metal bracket of some sort, probably part of a TV antenna at one time, that wraps around the handle and through two holes in the wooden bar. It's tightened up enough that it will NOT move without taking the handle with it, but not so much that the plastic is stressed.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/pedal1.JPG


Here it is on the floor. Works great, and I didn't even have to install the driver for the Wingman, I just switched the mapping over to the new controller in the HOTAS section of FB. Nothing to it.

If practice, it took me all of one minute to adjust to pedals. Aiming is a breeze now, I can walk my aim easily and smoothly over the targets like I never could before with the X45's analog lever on the throttle. Hope someone can use this info, at least to see what pedals are like if they've not before.



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adlabs6
07-04-2003, 03:48 AM
Hello, some of you will remember my 'cockpit' chair that I posted here a while back. Well now I've got some rudders to use with it! I don't want to pay for a set of pedals, though I did consider buying a cheap $20 steering wheel controller just to use the pedals from it, but the pedals on the display looked like they should only cost $3 so I skipped it.

So what I did was convert an old twist handle joystick for the job. Last night I was discussing with Bearcat some different joystick combos, and this popped into my mind.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/pedal2.JPG


This pic shows pretty clearly what I've done. I took an old Wingman Extreme 3D, and attached a wooden bar across the rear of the handle. Earlier I had tested it with tape to verify the concept. That is a metal bracket of some sort, probably part of a TV antenna at one time, that wraps around the handle and through two holes in the wooden bar. It's tightened up enough that it will NOT move without taking the handle with it, but not so much that the plastic is stressed.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/pedal1.JPG


Here it is on the floor. Works great, and I didn't even have to install the driver for the Wingman, I just switched the mapping over to the new controller in the HOTAS section of FB. Nothing to it.

If practice, it took me all of one minute to adjust to pedals. Aiming is a breeze now, I can walk my aim easily and smoothly over the targets like I never could before with the X45's analog lever on the throttle. Hope someone can use this info, at least to see what pedals are like if they've not before.



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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 03:56 AM
I think using a small muffler/exhaust bracket would work pretty well for attaching the bar to the stick...

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 03:57 AM
How long do you think it will hold up? At least as long as the $3 peddels?

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adlabs6
07-04-2003, 05:13 AM
Yes, I could go buy some pedals, but I love engineering and problem solving. I've designed and built working cameras (4x5 and 8x10 large format), loudspeakers, drafting tables for me to design from, chairs, not to mention dozens of architectural designs, computer software, websites, company logos... on and on. I'm currently reseaching scratchbuilding model cars and aircraft using soldered brass sheet, or resin casting.

This is really the essence of how I work. Find a better way. Do it better/easier than others.

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Message Edited on 07/05/0308:44AM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 05:19 AM
No prob ad....very creative.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Message Edited on 07/04/03 12:26AM by Bearcat99

Message Edited on 07/05/0308:43AM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:28 AM
To the origional poster, may i ask this: how do you fly with the X45 stick? I hate it! i only use the throttle and just stuff the stick behind my desk! its waaay too stiff for me. Is there anyway to make it less-stiff? if there is i might actually try this, cause i'm using a Microsoft Precision 2 Joystick+ X45 throttle right now



Message Edited on 07/05/0308:41AM by Tully__

The_Blue_Devil
07-04-2003, 06:34 AM
I like the X45's level of stiffness..I find that a stick that is too loose leads to easy stalls..good point though. I had your exact feelings in the opposite direction. i found the microsoft stick too loose.

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:35 AM
Nice work on the pedal-mod! But what I'm realy diggin is the chair. I'll be shoppin the stores for a similar unit for myself this weekend. Thanx for the inspiration. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

~S~

GP

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 06:39 AM
same here - i use throttle and ms ffb2

have the x45 stick behind the monitor

it's too bad too - because it sure looks nice

S!
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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 07:14 AM
how did you get FB to recognize both joysticks? i have an old one i could probably use for a rudder mod and i also use an X45 throttle and stick. i use the Saitek programming along with the programming in FB for my stick profile. can you give me instructions on how to only use the rudder on the other joystick? thanks

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 07:25 AM
I have actually got a spare wingman so I think I could throw together my own pilot chair. My main controller is a microsoft sidewinder, which I am happy with, but does anybody know of a single throttle control I could buy and use with the sidewinder for true HOTAS. I would rather not have to buy a stick/throttle set.

adlabs6
07-04-2003, 08:57 AM
How to get FB to recognize multiple sticks, I don't know, all I did was go to the "Controls" menu, scrolled down to "HOTAS" and then I clicked in the "Rudder" field, and pushed on the pedal. The joystick axis and ID2 appeared in the field, and worked from that moment on. I'm not much of an expert on this sort of thing.

I don't think there is a way to "see" and adjust settings for sticks other than the primary (mind you the .ini file is still there of course), but you can still assign axis to the HOTAS features anyway. Its the same way with the Gentleman who's making the 4 axis slider quadrant in another thread here. You won't see those sliders on a test screen in FB, but you can still assign their signal to a HOTAS command.

Anyway, I am planning on later totally canabalizing the Wingman, and making better use of the parts on hand. For example, I know that FB allows analog brake control to be mapped to a slider, so if I can manage a way to do that, I'll have analog toebrakes on my pedals. Of course all that will require sitting down and designing a proper dual axis 'pedal' set, to hold the pots and circuitry.

But that'll be later. Much later.

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adlabs6
07-04-2003, 09:06 AM
gurypuddle wrote:
- Nice work on the pedal-mod! But what I'm realy
- diggin is the chair. I'll be shoppin the stores for
- a similar unit for myself this weekend. Thanx for
- the inspiration. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif -
- ~S~
-
- GP
-
-

I posted about the chair, and outlined the construction here:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zefit

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:06 AM
Adlabs you could try assigning the brak function to the other axis on your makeshift ruuder, where you push forward. Might have to stiffen it up, but that way you could just push foreward with your feet for brakes. Dunno if it would work though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

adlabs6
07-04-2003, 09:12 AM
BS87 wrote:
- ....................... To the origional poster,
- may i ask this: how do you fly with the X45 stick? I
- hate it! i only use the throttle and just stuff the
- stick behind my desk! its waaay too stiff for me. Is
- there anyway to make it less-stiff? if there is i
- might actually try this, cause i'm using a Microsoft
- Precision 2 Joystick+ X45 throttle right now
-
-

Yes the X45 has stiff movement. But I have no trouble with it. Oh, for the first month, I was lousy, I wondered why I'd bought the silly thing. But over six months, and few hundred hours later, everything else feels like a toy. I flew over 500 missions in IL2 with a Wingman 3D Extreme, and never noticed the feel. It seems to mushy, impresice, to loose really to use.

I guess it's what you get used to really.

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Message Edited on 07/05/0308:39AM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:32 AM
Speaking of brakes, and sorry to get off topic (again) but is there any way of steering the plane during taxi other than one brake and rudder? Didn't planes of that era have separate brakes for each of the front (on a tricycle gear) tires? I love to start and finish missions at parking, and taxi to the runway, but steering these things is kinda cheezy. Wish they had separate control entries for each brake. I'd probably use F11 and F12, like MSFS2002 does. Any suggestions?


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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:47 AM
Thats the best home made cockpit i have ever seen!

Yours
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michapma
07-04-2003, 11:02 AM
I am wondering how you keep the joystick still with your feet on it.

Mike

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:04 AM
I think its fastened down.

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:04 PM
Recon_609IAP wrote:
- same here - i use throttle and ms ffb2
-
- have the x45 stick behind the monitor
-
- it's too bad too - because it sure looks nice
-
- S!
- 609IAP_Recon

Recon you dont have to leave the stick behind your desk. Just useit for buttons. Thats what I do with mine. My main flight stick is a MSFFB2. The X45s stiff spring actually works in your favor if you use it as a button bay. In the next few weeks I will try to set up a decent multi engined plane profile with the X45. All you have to do is just plug the stik in and assign the controls through the HOTAS section. If you have programming software for your other stick just assign the proper keystrokes from the FB controls menu to the appropriate commands and you should be good to go.

BS87 wrote:

To the origional poster, may i ask this: how do you fly with the X45 stick? I hate it! i only use the throttle and just stuff the stick behind my desk! its waaay too stiff for me. Is there anyway to make it less-stiff? if there is i might actually try this, cause i'm using a Microsoft Precision 2 Joystick+ X45 throttle right now

The same goes for you.... use the programming software from both sticks to create two seperate profiles. I have what I consider a decent profile for an X45 under those conditions ... the X45 stick is basically just a button bay while the throttle is set up with multiple comands and the MS stick has all the primary flight surfaces & weps....you can download it at the site in my sig if you like. There is a readme and a list of key assignments. Make sure you assign the right keys to the right commands or it wont work. There are two profiles..one for the X45 and one for the FFB2. You will probably be able to manually recreate the profile I have set up..I dont know if FFB profiles will work for your stick but the X45 part should be fine. Since both your stick and the FFB ar MS sticks it may just work. Try it and let me know. Same for you ryan.....


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Message Edited on 07/04/03 07:20AM by Bearcat99

Message Edited on 07/05/0308:38AM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:19 PM
Aardvark892 wrote:
- Speaking of brakes, and sorry to get off topic
- (again) but is there any way of steering the plane
- during taxi other than one brake and rudder? Didn't
- planes of that era have separate brakes for each of
- the front (on a tricycle gear) tires? I love to
- start and finish missions at parking, and taxi to
- the runway, but steering these things is kinda
- cheezy. Wish they had separate control entries for
- each brake. I'd probably use F11 and F12, like
- MSFS2002 does. Any suggestions?


Nope thats it..but I believe if you unlock the tailwheel it will turn better. Adlabs...how do those pots whichare designed for hand twists hold up against the added pressure of your legs?.......McGuyver LIIIIIVES!!!!!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 08:25 PM
BWT Adlabs, which configuration did you end up using? Stick in the middle of the chair, or stick on the right hand rest.



Message Edited on 07/05/0308:35AM by Tully__

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:02 PM
Back on topic.

S! Adlabs! Necessity really IS the mother of invention. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Makes me want to not tell anyone I spent $130.00 on CH Pro pedals. (Although they do have a warranty)



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adlabs6
07-04-2003, 09:27 PM
Ok, I'll try to answer some of these questions...

michapma:
You asked about keeping the stick still while I am flying. This isn't really a problem surprisingly, since they have yet to move while I'm playing, and it's just sitting on the carpet.

Bearcat99:

You asked about the added pressure of my legs on the stick. I wondered about this too, but in practice, I find it works great if my feet don't touch the bar unless I'm ruddering. Sitting at a reclined angle in that chair makes it VERY comfortable, and the stick is under no strain.

BTW, adding the bar across the stick amplifies my input pressure due to a leverage effect, so only a very light touch is need to rudder either way. The 'light touch' feels very smooth and is very accurate in use. Last night on HL I was vulching in IL2, Stuka G, and Me262 with bombs, and ruddering my aim onto my target was almost effortless. Taxiing was also easy.

Thunderbolt56:

Yes, when I bought my X45 at Fry's, I took a look at the CH pedals they had there. Back at that point in time, I was used to twisting the Wingman, and $130 was only equivalent to TrackIR at that time. Those are nice pedals though, having used this for a few flights now, makes me want to skip the fun of 'scratchbuilding' and run to Fry's! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW, I was astonished at how good Logitech was at warranting those Wingman. I had three fail, and received replacements for all of them in a week. That's why I used it here, just wasting space in my closet. I've still got two dusty Wingman in my closet.... Now just to find a use for them. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

EDIT missed one....

BS87:

I like using the center mounted stick. Very immersive that way, though if I weren't so 'thin' it would be very uncomfortable, and likely only usable on the side arm. When I fly with the stick in the center, I AM flying that 109E! Very fun stuff.

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Message Edited on 07/04/0308:36PM by adlabs6

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 09:42 PM
An FYI.

Microsoft is getting out of the "Joystick" business and are in the process of selling (or already have) their designs and production facilities to Logitech.

So, hopefully their Warranties will remain a "positive" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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Tully__
07-04-2003, 11:48 PM
Off topic removed. Anyone who wishes to continue that side of this discussion please do so elsewhere. I'll be contacting the offender.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 11:57 PM
Interesting.

But I don't think I'll be changing over from my:

<center>http://members.uia.net/f2comp/rcs.jpg </center>

No controversy involved with that, eh Tully?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Tully__
07-05-2003, 12:06 AM
commie1 wrote:
- Interesting.
-
- But I don't think I'll be changing over from my:
-
- <center>http://members.uia.net/f2comp/rcs.jpg </center>
-
- No controversy involved with that, eh Tully/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



I want a set of those /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 12:34 AM
what kind of pedals are those, the ch pros are way to close together for size 14s, let me know thx

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XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 01:09 AM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- what kind of pedals are those, the ch pros are way
- to close together for size 14s, let me know thx


LS, those are Thrustmaster RCS (gameport) pedals.

They don't make them any more, and they're not USB, but luckily for me I can interface them to USB via my Cougar HOTAS, which has a gameport adapter.

And I agree with you, the CH Pro pedals are CAR PEDALS, not AIRCRAFT PEDALS!

The next best alternative is Simped pedals, available here:

http://shop3.webmailer.de/cgi-bin/ePages.filereader?3f06167500952ddc271aac172c25060c +DE/products/373012&2D1228131

I couldn't fly with my knees as close together as the CH Pros require, but maybe that's just because I'm a ****. You decide!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 01:55 AM
Tully is my Hero! anyway, I agree with you adlabs, i fint having the joystick where wit would be in real lif is ALOT more immersive and fun!

adlabs6
07-05-2003, 03:06 AM
http://members.uia.net/f2comp/rcs.jpg


Those are pedals I like. They had nothing that great when I was shopping (at least not on display). Indeed, the CH pedals seemed to close together for my liking. The ones above and the SIMPED pedals you link to are more what I want.

Thanks for the info! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 03:13 AM
BS87 wrote:
- Tully is my Hero! anyway, I agree with you adlabs, i
- fint having the joystick where wit would be in real
- lif is ALOT more immersive and fun!


How drunk do you need to be to make a statement like that?

Your skilling spells clearly demonstrate your current intake status.

BS87, you're obviously descended from a long line of BS'ers.

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XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 03:56 AM
What type of pedals are those? I want them!

commie1 wrote:
- Interesting.
-
- But I don't think I'll be changing over from my:
-
- <center>http://members.uia.net/f2comp/rcs.jpg</cent
- er>



Message Edited on 07/05/0302:57AM by Timber_Wolf_99

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 04:07 AM
That's a pretty ingenious setup adlabs. How come I didn't think of that?!

What I would like to know though is, what is that white stuff on that piece of WOOD? I had white stuff on my spinner already that I couldn't get off, but never on my rudder pedal!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

adlabs6
07-05-2003, 04:45 AM
commie1 wrote:
- skilling spells

Skilling spells? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And yes, that white paint on the wood. Hehe. You should've seen it when it was taped together!

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XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 05:55 AM
Pure genius dude. I love stuff like that... great idea and execution.

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 06:12 AM
Commie1 you have my permission to beat the heck out of me if i ever post while intoxicated again. My statement shoud read : " Tully is my Hero! Anyway, I agree with you adlabs, i find that having the joystick where it would be in real life is ALOT more immersive and fun! "

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 07:59 AM
Lol, did someone enjoy their tinker toys a little too much as a child?

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_VR_ScorpionWorm
06-26-2004, 10:44 PM
BUMPING from page 414, its a very cool idea for those that cant afford pedals,

Edit: found another one, the guy used an old steering wheel(modified) to work as rudder pedals.

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You are about to embark upon a Great Crusade toward which we have strived these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. Good Luck! And let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking" - Gen. Dwight D. Eiseinhower-Supreme Allied Commander.

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[This message was edited by _VR_ScorpionWorm on Sat June 26 2004 at 09:56 PM.]

adlabs6
06-26-2004, 11:21 PM
Wow, hard to believe this thread is a year old. Still could be useful though.

FYI, this project is now long gone, as it was unfortunately built from a Logitech Wingman 3D. Same as with my other sticks of that type, the twist rudder pot got spikey after some additional use. I took the "pedals" apart and tossed it all in the closet from whence it came, maybe someday it'll be good for something.

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_VR_ScorpionWorm
06-26-2004, 11:51 PM
Its good to know that old joysticks with twist rudder can work as rudders, but Logicr@p isnt a good brand anyways. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. I like the idea of using an old steering wheel as the rudder.

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Taylortony
06-27-2004, 04:36 PM
well for those in the UK these might come in handy, listed at 10.00

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2983&item=5504682984&rd=1


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