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View Full Version : off topic report of airshow crash yesterday



XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:16 AM
It got a little more interesting than anybody bargained for. A few minutes into the high-speed showcase, pilot Bill Cornik plowed his Curtis Pitts biplane into the tarmac and skidded several hundred feet.

Cornik was not hurt and stopped to wave to the crowd before an ambulance took him to Stanford University Hospital for observation. But his plane was mangled, and the 4 p.m. crash brought the squirrel cage -- and the first day of the Air Expo -- to an abrupt halt an hour before the show was set to end.

``You hate to see something like that,'' said Reynolds, who said he'd been going to air shows at Moffett since 1978 but had never witnessed a crash before Saturday.

He and others who saw the wreck said it looked like Cornik was doing a series of ``roll'' maneuvers too close to the ground. Cornik's left wing appeared to hit the runway, sending the plane tumbling


U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:16 AM
It got a little more interesting than anybody bargained for. A few minutes into the high-speed showcase, pilot Bill Cornik plowed his Curtis Pitts biplane into the tarmac and skidded several hundred feet.

Cornik was not hurt and stopped to wave to the crowd before an ambulance took him to Stanford University Hospital for observation. But his plane was mangled, and the 4 p.m. crash brought the squirrel cage -- and the first day of the Air Expo -- to an abrupt halt an hour before the show was set to end.

``You hate to see something like that,'' said Reynolds, who said he'd been going to air shows at Moffett since 1978 but had never witnessed a crash before Saturday.

He and others who saw the wreck said it looked like Cornik was doing a series of ``roll'' maneuvers too close to the ground. Cornik's left wing appeared to hit the runway, sending the plane tumbling


U.S. infantry 84-91

adlabs6
09-15-2003, 12:35 AM
Glad to hear the pilot is ok.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:13 AM
An F16 crashed at the Idaho Airshow on Saturday. I believe no one was hurt on the ground and the Pilot safely ejected.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:22 AM
I love aircraft and air shows but when will they learn to stop them before more people die. I live way up here in Toronto, Canada and go every year to the CNE airshow and watched both the Snowbird crash into the lake and the British Nimrod with 9 crew smash and break apart into the lake killing everybody. You don't like the feeling and people are so oblivious to the situation, kids saying "ooh that looked cool" and stuff, I watched the Nimrod from about 200 yards away on shore and I tell you it scared the hell out of me and I knew these guys were dead right away, people thought they were being brought out of the water and everything was going to be ok. I watched and got on video tape the Snowbird coming out of a big loop and just plummet straight into the lake at tremendous speed, not fun. I don't go anymore to airshows and I threw away my video tape after feeling it was more like a snuff film then anything and made me feel bad watching it. Believe me you may think it's astonshing to see but when you're there you feel sick to your stomach. It sucks to watch people die, not like in video games.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:26 AM
I don't think that's a reason to stop airshows altogether. As unpleasant as it is,accidents happen...

47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:39 AM
no body died at the 2 wrecks this weekend

U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:46 AM
I know what you mean, even the pilots say the show must go on and things like "so and so would have wanted it this way" but it's so different when you are there and the feeling you get, I swear I heard some people puking. If you ever watch that footage of the two Italians at Ramstein Germany, I think, clip wings and then one crashes into the crowd and burns 75 people alive, I don't know, if the planes didn't fly that day I'm sure those people wouldn't have cared. It's like auto races, people go to see the crashes, just like a lot in the crowd. If nobody really cared and didn't go there would be no money in it and they would eventually fade away like the old traditional circus. We can go look at them on the ground, most of my best times was going into jet cockpits and aircraft on the ground.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:48 AM
Nice to hear that, for a change.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 07:48 AM
I have to agree with this view.

I had pre-bought tickets to the 2001 Biggin Hill airshow. (For those that don't know, this is a famous airfield in the south of England). We planned to go on Sunday, however we heard on the news that during the Saturday event a DeHavilland Venom had crashed killing the crew.

Not sure if we still wanted to go we waited until Sunday when we heard the show was still going ahead. We went.

Anyway, during a display of about 8 warbirds (and others) doing chase scenes etc. a P-63 King Cobra went into a loop. On the way out his tail seemd to 'level-out' slightly forcing him down - and not leaving him enough room to pull out of the dive he went straight into the ground head on.

We were not far from the barrier, and had a perfect view of this. The sound of the impact, and the sight of a huge ball of flame that rose up will always stay with me.

Ambulances and fire engines raced to the scene, but there was no way he could survive that. What was eerie though was the smoke - it seemed to stay quite low, and as it wasn't a very windy day it just drifted towards the spectators very slowly, like something from a film, until it was all around you, and you could smell the fuel, the burning etc. About half-an-hour later they called off the remainder of the show.

Very sad day. Even now, when I visit airshows I do hold my breath when they take these old planes into loops and dives - it's inevitable it will happen again. Many of these planes are just too old for that type of flying now.

We don't have many of these famous aircraft remaining in the world - wouldn't it be a shame if we were to lose them this way?

Phoenix

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:15 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- I don't think that's a reason to stop airshows
- altogether. As unpleasant as it is,accidents
- happen...
-
- 47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg
-

have u heard about airshow accident in ukrain where I think it was SU-27 crashed and killed some pll(one of the engins stopped) and Ukrainian president sad that there will not be any more airshows..... oh yes both of the pilots ejekted after plane hit the ground and they was ok,,,was trying to keep thing flying,,,,,,,,(egin stopped after a loop at low altitude so there was nothing they was able to do , but thet fought to the last)
here is a picture of SU-27(good plane)>
http://www.uploadit.org/files/150903-su-27.jpg

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>
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<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

adlabs6
09-15-2003, 08:42 AM
Quite a few years ago I went to an airshow, and like most events all went well. But I was underwhelemed since our position was far away from many interesting planes and it was well over 100 degrees F on the concrete apron.

Later on I was lucky enough to visit an indoor museum, and I was much more impressed with the experience. I could get very close to the planes, and even inside some. And I could take great pictures, which I greatly enjoyed.

I realize that many want to fly these old planes, and many more people want to see them fly, but for me it's unclear what the limits of these old machines are. Given the age, as well as the low display altitudes, trouble leaves little room to avoid loss of life and history.

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Message Edited on 09/15/0307:45AM by adlabs6

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:39 AM
I think we're talking about two different things here, and mixing them into one. On one hand, doing stunts with an old warbird is maybe not too wise, and I don't think people do that very often anymore. Aerobatically, those planes just can't perform like a modern aircraft can. They are great for making low passes over the runway, flying in formation. That deep, throaty rumble always gets my blood pumping.

On the other hand, aerobatics is a sport. There are a lot of aerobatic competitions that never really draw attention from the media. This, to me, is one of the big draws of attending an airshow, and there isn't a chance that one of the competing pilots would like to stop. They do it because they love it.

I think safety is an important thing to respect, ESPECIALLY when your talking about flying chunks of metal. Rather than see an end to airshows, I would prefer to see an evolution of safety consciousness, and I think to some degree, we have.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:52 AM
There are strict rules about display axis and such - moves cant be prefored while flying towards the crowd - there is a line running parallel with the crowd line about 200m away on which moves have to be performed.

I dont thing wardbirds should do aerobatics - The BBMF just flys its Spits and Hurricanes around, doing gentle turns and occasionaly doing things like immelmans - Its better this way as you get more chance to appreciate them in flight - and they ae rare already, we want to keep the crashes to a minimum.

Some things like mechanical failure cant be avoided - I was at the Lowestoft Airshow last year when a Harrier GR9 lost power during the hover - the pilots ejected and because o the safety regs, the plane was over the sea and crashed harmlessly

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:11 PM
Im amazed to hear people in this forum, who presumably are interested in aircraft and flying,suggest that airshows should be stopped.Sure people sometimes get killed which is a tragedy but people get killed doing all sorts of things,..driving down the road for instance which is surely the biggest killer of them all.Nobody then suggests driving should be banned.
If you dont like the risks involved for the people taking part in airshows then dont go to airshows.Dont suggest they should be stopped for everyone.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:48 PM
VMF513_Wolf


can you keep your image size down please.

136Kb for one image is a bit too much for us 56ers.


Thank you.


And on the subject of airshows, isn't it strange how when an aeroplane crashes everyone says they must be stopped its dangerous, but your driving home on the motorway and get p*ssed off when your held up due to a fatal RTA. And who suggests closing the motorway down?



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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:12 PM
Stopping airshows to preserve history is like capturing and caging all endangered species just so we can still see them.

Caution and safety are paramount in all airshows, but to relegate them strictly to static display would be awful.

The statement of "age" is moot in most instances as the reconditioning process is extensive and many safety features are present that weren't there 60 years ago. (Most noteably the avionics)

Film is nothing like being there, but the video record, combined with the museum inventory will allow people to view these aircraft practically forever.

Nothing is foolproof and it's human nature to push the limits of mechanical capability. Don't put that in check.

Keep'em flying!



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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:47 PM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:necrobaron wrote:
-- I don't think that's a reason to stop airshows
-- altogether. As unpleasant as it is,accidents
-- happen...
--
-- 47|FC
- http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg
--
-
- have u heard about airshow accident in ukrain where
- I think it was SU-27 crashed and killed some pll(one
- of the engins stopped) and Ukrainian president sad
- that there will not be any more airshows..... oh yes
- both of the pilots ejekted after plane hit the
- ground and they was ok,,,was trying to keep thing
- flying,,,,,,,,(egin stopped after a loop at low
- altitude so there was nothing they was able to do ,
- but thet fought to the last)


Yep,I heard about that. Quite a tragedy. I agree with some previous posts. I MIGHT would support an move barring warbirds from doing aerobatics,but NOT from flying altogether. Despite how sad it is,I don't think we should let the occasional accident influence our judgment.

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:16 PM
I think some people have taken this too seriously. In my earlier post I said that it would be a shame to lose these great aircraft due to crashes at airshows etc. Thing is, I'm all in favour of them still flying, just that it's not always wise to push an old aircraft to do aerobatics; re-enacting attack sequences, looping etc.

At the recent Duxford show, and the earlier WarBirds one the Spitfires and Hurricanes for example didn't do any loops, but flew back and forth along the crowd line. That was sufficient to still see these great planes in action.

Besides, a Spitfire doing a loop isn't necessary is it?

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:13 PM
Good thing noone was hurt - I mean planes can be bought/build/rebuild/whatever - but people who die just don´t come back & you wonder if it´s worth it.

S!

M0NS



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