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Hristo_
01-29-2005, 10:44 AM
Just today I took my BMW 318 out. The road was just partially cleared of snow and I have fairly beaten up summer tires.

Needless to say, my car was like a fat lady on skates. RWD didn't help either, of course. Even the most careful throttle input resulted in unstable rear. It all culminated with a violent oversteer which took me for a few seconds lasting 360 turn. During the spin I managed some control and avoided both sides of the road, but it was far from what I intended. All turned out OK, but I can only think what could have been if there was more traffic on that road. A nearby tractor pulled the car out of the snow.

Anyway, since I'm a firm sim believer, I plan to buy a PC steering wheel along with my new tyres.

Just like these planes, I don't have the money to fly them in real life, so I have this PC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Rally school is too much for my wallet so I'll teach myself to drive in extreme conditions on my PC. And what's best for extreme conditions than a rally or a wet track ?

Now, I've heard only good things abour Richard Burns Rally, but those are 4WD cars. Right now I'm going for a F1 Challenge mod called M3 challenge. A RWD car and a BMW. Just what I need http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Just thought I'd share these thoughts with you.

Any suggestions ?

thanks

tsisqua
01-29-2005, 05:54 PM
There is a driving sim called Flat Out that has a free demo for you to try out. You can download it here (http://www.gamershell.com/download_7433.shtml).

I was really impressed with the physics, and control. Yes, it is a racing game, but what better way to practice recovering from a spinout?

Have Fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Tsisqua

F16_Neo
01-29-2005, 06:14 PM
Check this out: http://www.gtr-game.com/index.php?page=frontpage0
Apparantly they are releasing an international version this spring! And they got a demo u can try out!
Edit: Oh almost forgot! TIR-support!!!

kiddknapp59
01-29-2005, 07:15 PM
Flatout is fun, but pure arcade. It has built in traction control that cuts your throttle in a corner so you can€t throttle steer, or not as much as I would like. Still a fun game.
GTR is a sim, and a hardcore one at that. No game is going to teach you much that will translate to the real world. Maybe, maybe counter steer, but that is something you really need to practice in a real car. I have had drivers training above and beyond what most people get and practice behind the wheel of a REAL car is what it takes. I grew up in the ice and snow, so as kids we would take our cars out and do what you did, but we did it on purpose. Stupid and dangerous at the time, but it developed muscle memory and the skill set needed to handle a car in a skid. Since then I have learned to better control throttle steer, I learned how to heel-to-toe and other dangerous things (fun though). I got to slid police cars around an airport runway and practice all kinds of fun stuff.
The biggest problem with simulators and the real world is the physical force you feel in a real car, and the adrenaline burst you get from doing something dangerous and potentially deadly in a 3000lb car. You can€t get that at your desktop. I have been in a situation where I was pulling enough lateral g that I couldn€t get my face off of the drivers side window. And I have felt negative g€s hard enough to almost pop my eyeballs out (under heavy braking). I wish we could get that in a video game, but we can€t.

Covino
01-29-2005, 07:23 PM
Well, there's a free driving/racing sim called Racer. It's a very realistic open source project and there are tons of addon cars and tracks for it.

You can get it at www.racer.nl (http://www.racer.nl). Get the latest beta version because I think most addons need it.

For hundreds of addon vehicles and tracks, go to www.racer-xtreme.com (http://www.racer-xtreme.com). There's even a beta BMW 318 for download.

EDIT: The latest beta version is here http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=189885 and future beta updates will be in that forum as well.

pourshot
01-29-2005, 07:45 PM
If you want to learn car control forget sims no sim is real enough for that. I used to run a GoKart shop building frames and engines as well as raceing. I was club and state champ for a long time and can honestly say no sim comes close to real driving.

The best way to learn if your short on $ is the same way I did buy a old car and go nuts on dirt roads and farm padocks.

It takes time to learn perfect throttle control and the best way to do that is by power drifting all over to place http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I dont know how it works were you come from but over here we can take our street cars onto the race track for some fun, the rules for overtaking make it safe and as long as you dont over do it just very slowly build up to full speed its a great day out. I used to do it with my CBR600 and enjoyed it alot.

WTE_Grendal
01-29-2005, 08:56 PM
Check out http://www.liveforspeed.net/.

I has a great drive model with one of the most detailed setup options in a drive sim. It's also optimised for online gaming.

There is a demo avaliable. The S2 update is due very soon which will add more cars, tracks and a damage model.

Wilburnator
01-29-2005, 09:54 PM
Grand Prix Legends is an old game that has been updated alot and is still great fun to play. It is very hard at first though. For a new game, get the upcoming GTR, worldwide release is sometime in next month. I've played the demo (a choice of 2 cars at Spa) and it's unreal. The driving model is sophisticated and the head shake makes you really feel like your driving a stiff car on a bumpy track. And the TrackIR support is awesome. I've tried alot of racing sims, this one is THE one imo.

speedbird2k5
01-29-2005, 10:31 PM
if you have a PS2 and a little bit of patience, try getting Gran Turismo 4 when it comes out in feb. Gran Turismo 4 and GTR are about the most realistic games out there.

Chuck_Older
01-30-2005, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilburnator:
Grand Prix Legends is an old game that has been updated alot and is still great fun to play. It is very hard at first though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still the best. GPL is the sim

Don't confuse "fun" with "unrealistic" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif or 'arcade'

Tire physics is lacking, though

Tell Jimmy Clark I said "Hi"

Badsight.
01-30-2005, 02:34 AM
Chuck Older in a car sim thread

unless id seen it , id never have believed it

(why havent they worked on a GPL sequal yet Chuck ? , why hasent GPLs physics been bettered by now ? i mean i constanly go back to GPL , you can keep your flash graphics)

Badsight.
01-30-2005, 02:37 AM
the game engine that GTR is based on is about to get updated isnt it ?

its a slight shame that GTR is taking this long to get released world-wide

BTW , anyone tried the sleeper that is "World Racing" ? it wasnt half bad ! (version 2 is knocking on the door)

Hristo_
01-30-2005, 03:38 AM
Thanks for help all, I appreciate your advice.

Old car and country road option sounds fun, I admit. Any suggestions regarding safety ?

In the meantime I will try out the suggested sims. I tried Richard Burns Rally at my friend's na dit even has a RWD car - the MG ZR. Very fun so far.

Downloading GTR as I'm writing this.

Badsight.
01-30-2005, 03:53 AM
im not a fan of richard burns rally , even tho i was looking foward to it so much , but after about 20 hours gameplay i cant reccomend it as the best

they have made it very realistic , but gone beyond realistic & actually made it harder to do corrections at high speed than it is IRL

i grew up living next to a gravel road

in RBR your ability to alter the cars attitude is stopped if its decided your going faster than is allowed or not on the pre-set correct line in/pattern of correct actions

you get locked into simply ploughing off the road

& that is what really bugs me about loads of car sims

pourshot
01-30-2005, 03:59 AM
If you want a safty tip, Well I suggest you try to avoid the tree's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Just remember throttle control is not about speed, just find some nice loose dirt and tool around or even some place that would work well as a skid pan.

Be smart not brave and think well ahead and you will be fine.

Lucius_Esox
01-30-2005, 04:13 AM
pourshot,
I too used to race Karts. I live in England and (showing age here) one of my fellow competitors was Johny Herbert! He was very fast even then. Am not so sure about no sims getting close to the real thing. There was a rally game from about about 4yrs ago called Mobile Rally (British Championship) and the DM was,,,,, brilliant. I nearly burnt the motors out in my M/s FF wheel on that thing and after a stage I used to be a sweaty mess from going for it. A lot of people rate GPL which was good but imo not in the same league as Mobile rally. Having said that a m8 of mine used GPL to learn the Nurbugring, and the nutter trusted his life to that knowledge on his first lap on his Fireblade, and survived! I dont know if Mobile Rally is still available (budget?) but my copy is one of my most prized cd's. Well worth doing a search because imo nothing thus far has ever come as close to the real thing!

Badsight.
01-30-2005, 04:19 AM
i got that game too dude

my advice : burn a back-up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

pourshot
01-30-2005, 04:27 AM
badsight you know what bugs me about car sims is you allways feel like your going to slow and you dont have that pang of fear that says thats fast enough for this corner, also you cant feel the car under your butt you cant judge the grip by feel.

Also I allways react to slow in sims I dont know why maybe I needed to play pc games before I learned to drive. I have the same problem in il2 I have never fully adjusted to the complete lack of physical feadback, i feel disconnected from the stick inputs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

clint-ruin
01-30-2005, 04:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
the game engine that GTR is based on is about to get updated isnt it ?

its a slight shame that GTR is taking this long to get released world-wide
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Easy enough to take the german release to english language, there are translated addon packs for everything from the loading screens to the credits text and pit comms stuff. It's an awesome game, can't see why not to buy it - easy enough to mutilate the german version to english. It's quite amazingly fast [and the sensation of speed is awesome] at the highest details with max FSAA/etc switched on even on my fairly old machine. Feels very much like the Il-2 of racing sims.

Ralph.B
01-30-2005, 06:02 AM
Still not mentioned here - but if you prefer older cars out of the 60th and 70th, mostly with rearwheel-drive, you should try RallyTrophy from Bugbear Entertainment. RBR is better handling with 4wd-cars, but if you like RWD's and FWD's RallyTrophy is a musthave. For additional realism install the TT-realmod. You can get this patch and a lot of other addons here:
www.no-grip.net (http://www.no-grip.net)
Also a nice BMW2002ti is available for downloading!

Looking for the best, historical F1 sim ever, nothing else than GrandPrixLegends!

Wilburnator
01-30-2005, 07:53 AM
Yeah, I have Rally Trophy as well, and that's a great game. A little more arcade than GPL, but still very cool. There are quite a few cars available for download as well, I picked up a nice MGA and an Austin Healey 3000. Where else can you drive those?

Monson74
01-30-2005, 09:37 AM
I like NASCAR from Papyrus - yeah I know know you mostly turn left but the physics & DM are great & if you've got an Audigy card the sound is awesome! You can download tracks & cars too.

Badsight.
01-30-2005, 02:55 PM
there is also a F1 mod to go with the big range of tracks that you can DL for Nascar from papyrus

the new Nascar version is not from this company right ? not as good either from what ive read

& Pourshot , yea raceing games like all games are vision based , thats why the best ones are those that give you feel the best

the first game i ever really got into was CMR1 , it was awesome for its time (No2 was a total setp foward in everything but the handeling)
racers do require reactions , as they should , but if its technical ability over speed that your after then RBR might be for you

i just dont like its high speed handeling is all

Ralph.B
01-30-2005, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilburnator:
Yeah, I have Rally Trophy as well, and that's a great game. A little more arcade than GPL, but still very cool. There are quite a few cars available for download as well, I picked up a nice MGA and an Austin Healey 3000. Where else can you drive those? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have to agree, the default game is a little arcadish in comparison to GPL,RBR or even the nascar-series. Have you ever tried the TT-realmod2005 I mentioned in my last post on the first page of this thread? Most active members at NoGrip - and that's something for RT like this forum here for Il2 - prefer to drive with this mod. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about - I coproduced this mod and everything is calculated very well and based on real-car datas. I think, the physics is now even better than for RBR. Only one limit: for 4wd-fans it is a little dissapointing because RT hasn't included a proper model of the middle-differential, so 4wd cars don't feel quite right. But for classical cars with rearwheel- and frontwheeldrive it may be the best rallysim available for the moment.

Hehe, and if you believe it or not, even Oleg is registered as a member at NoGrip since a few weeks. His Z-modeller program used for creating 3d-models for Il2/PF is the standart for making RT-cars as well. Did anyone know that?

Greetings,
Ralph.B http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif