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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:11 AM
I love the idea of a '46 add-on, but there sure are a lot more planes to add to the lists before it should be released. In my opinion, such an add-on would have to stand on its aircraft alone. Historical missions for these planes would be either non-existant or extrememly dull, but I don't think people would mind flying them on existing and future maps. I like the "What if?" scenarios (provided they are semi-believeable), surely there are others that do as well.

Does anyone have any interest in late planes that get little mention? What about the Soviet and American mixed-power fighters (MiG-13, FR-1, etc.); the British turbojet (Meteor, Vampire) & turboprop fighters (Wyvern VP 120, Meteor F I EE227); and especially the Japanese J7W1. There are lots of other hi-perf and final development prop fighters from many nations that should be included. Did any of the late Italian projects ever fly? (Namely the SM.91 and Re.2007)

I'm surprised that the USN and USMC aircraft are nearly forgotten over their USAAC counterparts--even early- an mid-war planes are neglected. I personally love the F7F Tigercat and the F8F Bearcat would make a great dogfighter? The FD-1 Phantom would be a good addition now that we have the P-80 coming (thanks, Gibbage!).

Such a project is quite a task for only third-party modelling, is there a chance it could be produced officially? As long as the opportunity is there, I'm glad to see folks like Gibbage taking advantage and modelling their favourite interesting planes for it.

I'm not trying to whine or beg or troll or anything; I'm simply putting some plugs in for planes I like, and hoping to see some good discussion on the matter--or at least firey opinions http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:11 AM
I love the idea of a '46 add-on, but there sure are a lot more planes to add to the lists before it should be released. In my opinion, such an add-on would have to stand on its aircraft alone. Historical missions for these planes would be either non-existant or extrememly dull, but I don't think people would mind flying them on existing and future maps. I like the "What if?" scenarios (provided they are semi-believeable), surely there are others that do as well.

Does anyone have any interest in late planes that get little mention? What about the Soviet and American mixed-power fighters (MiG-13, FR-1, etc.); the British turbojet (Meteor, Vampire) & turboprop fighters (Wyvern VP 120, Meteor F I EE227); and especially the Japanese J7W1. There are lots of other hi-perf and final development prop fighters from many nations that should be included. Did any of the late Italian projects ever fly? (Namely the SM.91 and Re.2007)

I'm surprised that the USN and USMC aircraft are nearly forgotten over their USAAC counterparts--even early- an mid-war planes are neglected. I personally love the F7F Tigercat and the F8F Bearcat would make a great dogfighter? The FD-1 Phantom would be a good addition now that we have the P-80 coming (thanks, Gibbage!).

Such a project is quite a task for only third-party modelling, is there a chance it could be produced officially? As long as the opportunity is there, I'm glad to see folks like Gibbage taking advantage and modelling their favourite interesting planes for it.

I'm not trying to whine or beg or troll or anything; I'm simply putting some plugs in for planes I like, and hoping to see some good discussion on the matter--or at least firey opinions http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:14 AM
I would kill for a "46" add on. I also feel that the missions would be anything but "dull" I would only like to see aircraft that were in prototype or production, Arado 234, bachem natter, gotha 229 and the like. Maybe someday.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:22 AM
One thing I would like to see are intercept missions. P-80 being sent up to intercept Ar 234's before they get to there targets, like a dam or something important. The Ar 234 would be escorted by Me-262. That would be great fun! I know there is someone modeling the Ar 234 on the IL2 Center, but I dont know how far he is on it. Also a large Luftwaffa bomber would be great. Try a reversal. Luftwaffa attacking Allies with large bomber formations. See how well the Allies could do in defense and not on offense.

Gib

burtonh wrote:
- I would kill for a "46" add on. I also feel that
- the missions would be anything but "dull" I would
- only like to see aircraft that were in prototype or
- production, Arado 234, bachem natter, gotha 229 and
- the like. Maybe someday.
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:30 AM
wasnt the Ar234 used on Western front as recon plane?

Would like to see something like '46 (maybe in form of a big 'what if' game that posits a differnt outcome for the war) as well, but don't want too much fantasy in FB.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:34 AM
I meant that "historic" missions would be dull. "Hostilities are over, go patrol that perimiter, son." I work with a guy who was stationed in Germany in the mid-to-late 1950s. His "army stories" speak of marching beside armour back and forth along some border or fence, while the Soviets did the same thing just a peice away. Just think how fun recon missions would be with no AAA or interceptors. Yay!

Don't get me wrong, I love the prospect of the "What if?" missions like those you've mentioned. I'd like to see B-29's, B-35's, & B-36's over Germany vs. the Luftwaffe's latest interceptors. That turning the tables idea is good, too. Maybe an Amerika bomber? How about pitting European Axis planes vs. the Japanese. Did Spits ever fly vs. Riesens? That's the stuff I want to try, I just would love to have a large selection of "Forgotten Aircraft" to do it with. I'm glad to see others feel this way as well. Thanks, guys.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:46 AM
bazzaah2 wrote:
-
- Would like to see something like '46 (maybe in form
- of a big 'what if' game that posits a differnt
- outcome for the war) as well, but don't want too
- much fantasy in FB.

That's why I think such an add-on should stand on its planes alone. Not a stand alone product, more of an expansion pack. There would maybe be a few missions, but for the most part it'd be up to the players to use the planes in self-created missions, DFs or whatever. I don't want to see an "official" What if? scenario, I just want the planes avaible and see what the community comes up with for missions.

I'm just afraid of seeing a handful of planes released as a '46 add-on and then the whole idea dies. I can't wait to fly the P-80, Go IX, as well as the others. Just thought I'd share what I envisage. I'm getting tired of the Forgotten Battles-only/Eastern Front-only/We *Need* this & that attitudes, so I though I'd provied a counterbalance & hopefully hear some good discussion. That's all.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 11:03 AM
bazzaah2 wrote:
-
- wasnt the Ar234 used on Western front as recon
- plane?
-
- Would like to see something like '46 (maybe in form
- of a big 'what if' game that posits a differnt
- outcome for the war) as well, but don't want too
- much fantasy in FB.
-
-

The Ar234 was also used as a bomber at the western front... they flow an attack to the bridge of Remagen, where the US-Troops got over the river rhine fist time.

And hmm B17 coverd by P80... Me262 scramble to intercept them while the He 162 play with the P80... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Message Edited on 08/02/0312:07PM by Abbuzze

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 11:22 AM
Abbuzze wrote:
- And hmm B17 coverd by P80... Me262 scramble to
- intercept them while the He 162 play with the P80...


Better yet, replace B-17 with B-29, B-35, or B-36.
Sounds like fun to me!

Next week, we'll intercept the USS Macon with early Axis biplanes, just to mix things up!

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 11:26 AM
Well, see you what you mean. As far as FB goes I think people like the reality of it all. But there were some real exotic planes no doubt and to see some of them fly would be really interesting (e.g. I think the Japs had a trans Pacific bomber planned).

I suppose the limiting factor is reliable test/flight data that gives modellors a fighting chance of creating a good approximation of how some of those arcane planes would have flown - you know how some here are, shall we say, keen on detail! It seems hard enough when you have plenty of data.

Maybe some intelligent reverse engineering on say early MiG jet data for eg Ta 183 could help but guess always be limited by what data exist.

Once we have that exotica, there'll be plenty of QMBs self build missons and no doubt servers too to fight, so think idea has plenty of potential, even with only a few planes! Would like to see the Pfeil though, ugly but fast.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 12:59 PM
I personaly would love to see a meteor and am quite suprised that no one has had any interest in modeling one, after all they flew in the last few months of the war so would be quite feesable as an addon as a 45 plane.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:43 PM
seeing as its never been seen in a sim B4 .... how about the ....

.......< TA-183 >.......

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:57 PM
JR_Greenhorn wrote:
- Abbuzze wrote:
-- And hmm B17 coverd by P80... Me262 scramble to
-- intercept them while the He 162 play with the P80...
-
-
- Better yet, replace B-17 with B-29, B-35, or B-36.
- Sounds like fun to me!
-
- Next week, we'll intercept the USS Macon with early
- Axis biplanes, just to mix things up!


I just took planes from European theatre which flow in 45.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif thousends of B17
1000 allready build 262
150 He162
four P80 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
but B29 are ok too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 12:12 AM
bazzaah2 wrote:
- (e.g. I think the Japs had a trans Pacific bomber
- planned).

Aye, they did indeed. It was the G10N1 "Fugaku" (Mount Fuji). It was to be powered by six Ha-505 36 cylinder radials, but in reality, these engines would probably never reached production and the G10N would have used availible 18 cylinder engines instead. Proposed bombload was over 44,000 lbs, and estimated range exceeded 12,000 miles. Unfourtunately, the project only reached the advanced design stage; I don't believe there was even a mock-up built. It never came close to flying, so we'll never see it in IL-2.

Now the J7W1 "Shinden" (Magnificent Lightning) on the other hand, that did fly, and I think the NASM still has a prototype in storage. The Japanese seemed to really believe in this plane's potential, probably because it would've been fairly easy to convert to a jet. If the Americans could've been slowed in the Pacififc for a few months, they probably would've faced these planes.



Now, how do you suppose the Luftwhiners would react to a Me 264 model--the "Amerika" bomber? I know this one had two or three prototypes, I think two were flying. Powered by four BMW 801's, this craft would certainly give the Luftwhiners strategic bomber capability close to that of the Americans. What do you think?

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 12:47 AM
The b-36 would be nice but it is GIGANTIC....how could u miss it and its defensive armament is less than good, and itd have to be a large map and itd have to have RATO or turbojet assist, because its 6 pushers alone are just insufficient (IMO). However the b36 could literally wipe out any airfield...it is awsome just thinking about it but i seriously doubt it would be made because itd be such a major project.

As far as the ar234, i think the modeller (maverick) dropped it, unsure on that. while the ar-234b series is nice i would rather see the ar-234C, the series was in little use in WW2 at the TAIL end...and it could go faster than the me-262, thats awsome!!

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:13 AM
The Shinden only flew a few times, but I love the design. It looks simply evil and sleek. As for the B-36, it had good defensive armorment. It had two 20-mm M24A1 cannon each in six retractable, remotely-controlled fuselage turrets, tail turret and nose mounting, with 9200 rounds of ammunition. Thats something I would not want to fly against.

Gib

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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:20 AM
The thinking behind the B-36 was that it could fly so high, 40,000+ ft. That fighter planes wouldn't be able to turn at that hight, and the bomber could loose them by doing some split S's

The did some war games where B-36 attacked California, and the American fighers couldn't reach them in time to do any good. That was pretty much true until around 1950.



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Message Edited on 08/02/0305:35PM by Clay.Pigeon

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:20 AM
Oh, i was unaware it was armed like a very scary thing....well it wouldnt be too good since the higher altitudes arent modelled correctly, or so many people say.

Oh well if the b-36 cant be modelled thats ok, B-29 would be nice but thats ok too, ill be happy with he-177 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just want a bomber that can get me too and from the target in one piece without being 'ganged' in the sky. It is annoying o well. Thats why i am eager for an ar-234C series since it cannot be caught, at least i think so...going 550mph with full load of bombs is very nice and twin mg 151/20 mm pointing to the rear is nice.

One can wish but i understand modelling these aircraft is a major undertaking so ill take what i can get.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:21 AM
I never had an interest in the 46 concepts and hope they dont make an addon of them. To many what ifs


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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:24 AM
they should put on aircraft that were at least SOMEWHAT tested or had an experimental test model. Just on the drawing board is too vague to incorporate, at least i think.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:32 AM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- I never had an interest in the 46 concepts and hope
- they dont make an addon of them. To many what ifs
-
-
- http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif
-
- Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't.
- (c) Leadspitter
-
-

Ditto, imo Tuckie & co's Spanish civil war project wouldve been much more interesting with real background missions. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:38 AM
-
- One can wish but i understand modelling these
- aircraft is a major undertaking so ill take what i
- can get.
-
-

I am thinking about doing a B-36, mostly for myself, but I think to make it flyable would be a bit of a nightmare. The thing had a crew of 10, including a cook/gunner

Clay.Pigeon


http://www.aviation-central.com/1940-1945/images/aeb00-p61.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:43 AM
if you would model a b-36 i would bow b4 you, lol.

If u did that ai alone i would be happy. i always have a sweet spot for planes with GOOD defensive armament and HEAVY bomb load.


if u did internal id say go with just a cockpit and not anything more unless u wanted to or had help.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 02:33 AM
Hey Gib why don't you do the Horten America Bomber (Ho. XVIII) or the B-35?

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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 02:35 AM
large massive planes, with unmatched bombloads, and defensive armament to thwart all but the most determined bomber destroyers is very nice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:38 AM
I would love to see it. But, to me they would have to at least been flight tested prior to the end of the war.

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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:04 AM
Everyone's talking about '46 planes. While they're all very nice and exciting, I'd really like to see some of the pre-39 aircraft. I know people are doing WWI planes, but I mean stuff between the wars. In particular, I dream of going against the I-153 in a Hs-123.



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ShadowHawk__
08-03-2003, 05:05 AM
I would love to see a Ta-183, the Messerschmitt Wespe or Messerschmitt P.1110. Basicly anything off of www.luft46.com (http://www.luft46.com) would be nice though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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ShadowHawk__
08-03-2003, 05:07 AM
On another side note, anyone ever notice most of the aircraft from Crimson Skies (if you've played it) are actually experimental German aircraft from near the end of the war?

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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:19 AM
SuspectSquirrel wrote:
- I would love to see it. But, to me they would have
- to at least been flight tested prior to the end of
- the war.
-
<img
- src="http://mysite.freeserve.com/jjffjj/images/0-p
- icture.gif">

I can respect your argument, but I think that the B-36 would of been flight tested before our V-J day, if there world during the summer of 1945 it looked like the war would last for at least another year. If Britain had been invaded, if D-day had stalled, if the germans turned back the waves of B-17 bombers, or if the Japanese islands needed for B-29 bases hadn't fallen yet, the B-36 would of been flight tested by that time.

The reason it's development was slowed is because none of those things did happen.

If the D-Day invation had stalled and the Eastern Front had gone better, the Germans would of had all kinds of new planes by 1945-46. Many of which never were flight tested.

Whom ever does make a 1946 game, can shape the world how ever he wants. Didn't you play Red Alert /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-36-1949.jpg


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-36-DFSC8408873_JPG.jpg


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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:23 AM
B~36 would be awesome. You could do a whole Castle Wolfenstein 36D first person/personette shooter, all inside the fuselage.

Jump to cook's position? I could see that if the map or mission was long enough.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:24 AM
You mean this one?

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/b-35-11.jpg


http://www.gibbageart.com/images/b-35-12.jpg


http://www.gibbageart.com/images/b-35-14.jpg


As for the Horten America Bomber, I have not heard or seen it. Have any good pics or 3 view drawings? I may model it just for myself like the B-35.

Gib

Quake897 wrote:
- Hey Gib why don't you do the Horten America Bomber
- (Ho. XVIII) or the B-35?
-


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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:27 AM
i read this somewhere on b36, but it first flew in mid 46. And clay, while ur idea is right heres why its wrong, the b-36 project was rushed at first because it was thought britian might be lost, but later on around 43-44 the project was slowed down as its neccecity was not as major anymore since the b-29 was coming along and both fronts were winning therefore why get a massive bomber designed for attacks fromt he US if the war is looking pretty good?

But the first B-36's were in use in 48 but it was first flown in 46 and the project had been around since 41'.

It should be in the game (i think).

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:56 AM
-
- It should be in the game (i think).

No, I don't think it should be in this game. Any 1946 planes would unbalance this game to much. But I would realy like to see Oleg come out with a $19.99 addon that people could fly, when they weren't flying FB or his spanish civil war game, or whatever games he come up with next.

And gibbage, that is cool.

Clay.Pigeon


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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 07:54 AM
Thrawn888 wrote:
- they should put on aircraft that were at least
- SOMEWHAT tested or had an experimental test model.
- Just on the drawing board is too vague to
- incorporate, at least i think.

Planes that never flew will NEVER be in IL-2 simply because there isn't sufficient flight data to create an accurate FM. No one need worry about paper dream aircraft flying IL-2's skies.


More on the B-36:
The first XB-36 flew on August 8, 1946, but the program did indeed begin in early 1941. It suffered many delays for political, corporate, and labour reasons.
However, the project was never dropped because the plane had great potential as a nuclear bomber. The "Peacemaker" did have a long takeoff run and was about as fast as a B-29, but it could fly very high (40,000') and speeds crept up as the six Wasp Major 28 cyl. radials were coaxed to deliver well over 3000hp each. In 48, four turbojets were added to the six "Corncob's" with much better performance.
However, the non-jet models are my favorite, and they do not outclass WWII fighters that much. Planes such as the Ta 152H, Go IX, and BV 155 should have been able to intercept it, and they all are excellent cantidates for a '46 expansion as well.


Clay.Pigeon wrote:
- No, I don't think it should be in this game. Any 1946
- planes would unbalance this game to much. But I would
- realy like to see Oleg come out with a $19.99 addon that
- people could fly, when they weren't flying FB or his
- spanish civil war game, or whatever games he come up with
- next.
-
- And gibbage, that is cool.

Great thoughts, however as a sim, we should not worry about game balance. Most of the later planes mentioned would fit in a '46 expansion. Great idea, to make it a fully-compatible, extra-cost expansion. That way, those that want it could buy it, and those that don't, can ignore it. It would have to have enough aircraft to justify the price, and they could add features like nuclear bombing and perhaps some immediate post-war ground objects as well--provided anyone wished to make them. Once we have carriers for IL-2, perhaps this would be a good place to include the Graf Zeppelin CV and German shipboard aircraft variants (Bf 109T, correct?).


Gibbage, do you plan to submit that B-35 model to Oleg someday? I would love to see it in IL-2's skies.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 09:27 PM
http://www.luft46.com/



http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mm263.html

http://www.luft46.com/vaart/du13.jpg


http://www.luft46.com/ghart/ghtrb-2.jpg


http://www.luft46.com/ghart/ghtrb-4.jpg


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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 10:35 PM
Im up for adding more aircraft, but why ones that never even flew in WW2 at all???? , like the B36 for example it would be crap imo to fly that and have a 109 try and kill you, it would blow the realism about /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hell i'm even unsure of adding the P80, did it even fly an op over the east? I only know it to have flow about 9 sorties over Italy

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 12:02 AM
Nice pictures - is that the Foo Fighter?

And B29s too...

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 12:39 AM
The second one is the Focke-Wulf Triflugel or something. Terrible concept. Gib, I will try to dig up some info on Ho.XVIII. BTW Great Job on the B-35.

EDIT: Pretty much the only info is on www.luft46.com (http://www.luft46.com).
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Message Edited on 08/03/0303:45PM by Quake897

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 01:47 AM
Arm_slinger wrote:
- Im up for adding more aircraft, but why ones that
- never even flew in WW2 at all???? , like the B36 for
- example it would be crap imo to fly that and have a
- 109 try and kill you, it would blow the realism
- about
-
- Hell i'm even unsure of adding the P80, did it even
- fly an op over the east? I only know it to have flow
- about 9 sorties over Italy


The '46 expansion is for planes that were developed during WWII, and flew before 1947. You hit on some of what attracts me to the '46 expansion. Planes like the 109K are beginning to outclass other planes in the game. Don't you think it would be interesting to try to attack America's big new bombers (B-29, B-35, B-36, etc.) with the 109K and see how it fares? Also, there a lot of planes that flew during the war or just became operable as it was winding down. Some examples: Go IX, F7F, F8F, P-80, FD-1, Wyvern, Spiteful, I-250, Su-5, J7W1, etc.



I think that one of the reasons the P-80 didn't see much action in the latter stages of the war is that the US knew the war could be won without it, and full operational use could result in an example falling into the hands of a current or potential enemy. This doesn't neccessarily mean that it was or wasn't capable or ready for combat use, just that there may be other reasons it didn't see as much use.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 06:47 PM
My problem with most '46 add on talk is that one almost needs to construct an alternate WW2 for it to be interesting or believable. To me any such addon would have to be much more than a simple package with G0229's, Ta183's P80,s, Mig 13's, Vampires, and other late war or experimental types. Now, if one wanted to develop an alternate psuedohistorical background to create an alternate WW2 lasting to 1947 or so with radically interesting campaigns/missions (like B-36 raids on Berlin from the North American continent, or German aircraft carriers lanuching attacks on New York, etc, or even different alliance structures - how about France and a conquered Great Britain in league with Germany against the US and Soviet Union?), that would be an interesting stand alone product. Crimson Skies and Enigma both show that there is an adequate market for such things.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 06:56 PM
^ That would be great. Imagine B-29/B-36s bombing Berlin from the western side, while the Tu-4 bomb Berlin from the East. The thing that will have to be changed, is for the US NOT to develop an atom bomb so soon, since that would end the conflict real quickly.

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
Epox 8K9AI
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Game Theater XP w/ Sony MHC-BX6AV

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 07:36 PM
To counterbalance the B35, I think that one plane would be awesome (though smaller I think)

http://www.luft46.com/arado/are555s.html#e555-10

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


OK I -->[]

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 07:51 PM
^ That's why the Horten XVIII American Bomber would be a perfect match for the B-35.

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
Epox 8K9AI
PC2100 512MB DDR
GeForce 4 Ti4600 128MB
Game Theater XP w/ Sony MHC-BX6AV

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 09:28 PM
Quake897 wrote:
- ^ That would be great. Imagine B-29/B-36s bombing
- Berlin from the western side, while the Tu-4 bomb
- Berlin from the East. The thing that will have to be
- changed, is for the US NOT to develop an atom bomb
- so soon, since that would end the conflict real
- quickly.
-
- AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
- Epox 8K9AI
- PC2100 512MB DDR
- GeForce 4 Ti4600 128MB
- Game Theater XP w/ Sony MHC-BX6AV


I like that idea Quake, just leave nukes out of the game. I saw a "Sliders" where in that universe, Einstein or Oppenhiemer, had misgivings about the distruction that nuclear weapons would introduse into the world. So they added errors into the formulas. As a result the "Trinity" experiment didn't work.

Clay.Pigeon


http://www.aviation-central.com/1940-1945/images/aeb00-p61.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 09:58 PM
or you could base it round Robert Harris' scenario in 'Fatherland' - a 'cold' war between US and Germany fought at edge of european Russia, but extrapolate that into a hot war.

Great, chilling read, for any that haven't read it btw.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:00 PM
A lot of planes would have no use beacause they where desperate things.
take the bachem natter,I'm modleing it for fun to learn max 5 but it just didn't go well because i had lotta work and couldn't work on it(i'm working to buy new computer)
But imagen

U are on your flight platform,the waterbloks are set elevons to and BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM there you go. SOARING UP INTO THE SKIES. u see the bombers,drop your nosecone verry quick and fire ALL rockets to ONE bomber in ONE PASS. then u slow to acce^ptable speed,jetison front end of cockpit get trown out by the parachute developed to save the rocketengine leaving you in mid-air. then u need to parachute down and voila. and the rocketengine couldn't be slowed down and burned only 8 or 8 minuts I think it was 8 in the "latest" version. so thats,.... 10 minuts of "fun"

I would love to see my little bachem in IL 2 but only AI because it's pretty useless


<img src="http://www.planeshift.it/download/ps_banner1s.gif"<

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:05 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- One thing I would like to see are intercept
- missions. P-80 being sent up to intercept Ar 234's
- before they get to there targets,

And just what the P80s were originally sent to Italy to do
(if against recon Ar234s).

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:06 PM
JR_Greenhorn wrote:
- Japanese. Did Spits ever fly vs. Riesens?

Spits and Hurricanes both flew in the Far East, so
I would imagine that they did at some point.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:13 PM
JR_Greenhorn wrote:
- Now, how do you suppose the Luftwhiners would react
- to a Me 264 model--the "Amerika" bomber? I know
- this one had two or three prototypes, I think two
- were flying. Powered by four BMW 801's, this craft
- would certainly give the Luftwhiners strategic
- bomber capability close to that of the Americans.
- What do you think?

There's also the Ju390 which did do one twice transatlantic
flight. I don't know much, but I presume it was a development of the Ju290 transport/recon bomber, but
with 50% more engines. The Ju290 would be an interesting
addition to IL2/FB - it played a role in Stalingrad
as a transport, and could sport around 6 20mm cannon
in its recon bomber role.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:15 PM
UR_Spinne wrote:
- Everyone's talking about '46 planes. While they're
- all very nice and exciting, I'd really like to see
- some of the pre-39 aircraft. I know people are doing
- WWI planes, but I mean stuff between the wars. In
- particular, I dream of going against the I-153 in a
- Hs-123.

A Hawker Hart would be lovely too.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:33 PM
nicolas10 wrote:
- To counterbalance the B35, I think that one plane
- would be awesome (though smaller I think)

None of the Ar E.555 series ever flew, making them impossible to model correctly. However, there was a German strategic bomber that did fly, and that was the Me 264.
Check out a record of its flight tests here:
http://www.luft46.com/prototyp/me264.html


For anyone interested in "aircraft" like those Luft '46 showcases, here is a link to a similar site covering the Japanese projects:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/xplanes/


Keep in mind that only planes that flew, and have sufficient flight data availible are eligible to be in a '46 Expansion, and even that does not guarantee inclusion or even the expansion itself.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:47 PM
I've always liked the He177, even if it was a bit of a mule with those odd coupled engines.

He277 was the same plane but with a sensible engine arrangement. Not transatlantic but would be good. Some were built, so maybe a reasoable model could be worked out.