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DreamerM
12-30-2007, 03:10 AM
Altair is currently the only Grand Master Assassin in the clan.

That is why he has a missing finger. We know from Ubi's earlier statements that the finger was amputated in what Jade called a "pretty traumatic" intitiation ritual. Well, if loosing a finger was an initiation, why only Altair?

It must have been something only Master Assassins did, a sort of final connection to the clan. It was the "wedding ring" finger after all, and sacrificing it for the sake of being a more efficient weapon is not something anyone does lightly.

Sometimes the Informants refer to Altair as "Grand Master" which must have been his title before the icky incident with Robert.

And most telling of all, Al Mualim did not kill him. Granted, he used the incident to turn his "Best Man" into his personal tool, but at the same time...if he's the only Master they currently have, then killing him for ANY reason would have seriously weakened their clan. Any others attempting to reach that level would have had no-one to learn from.

Altair is far from a perfect tool. Volatle, unpredictable, and possessed of too much self-confidence and too much inconvenient, irrepressible curiosity, as well as an unexpected moral code. But Al Mualim didn't have anyone else nearly as able. It was a trade-off.

the_assassin_07
12-30-2007, 03:22 AM
Ok..

Great...

I really wanted to know all of this...
Seriously I don't even get what the main point of this thread is about...

AirRon_2K7
12-30-2007, 05:43 AM
Other than the information, you really didn't present a point for the topic <_<... you sorta wrapped it up already XD

But a good (if already known) read nonetheless.

spazzoo1025
12-30-2007, 09:15 AM
yah we already sort of knew all that stuff, is there an actual question or opinion you wanna bring up?

the_assassin_07
12-30-2007, 02:10 PM
Yeah lol. He probably won't even reply..

jcody
12-30-2007, 08:13 PM
I actually think there are those that are above altair.

In soloman's temple at the beginning of the game, Malik was dressed identical to altair, now here's the fun part - his ring finger is missing as well, while he has his left arm anyways.

He later became a bureau leader (due to the fact that two-armed assassin's are superior i guess.. he can no longer fight efficiently)

The bureau leaders wear black robes like al mualim. My guess is that the "black robe over the white robe and red sash" are even higher up than altair. No doubt malik was promoted for his sacrafice and retrieving the piece of eden alone.

Just my guess from the game context, i am not sure of any of this.

Kid_Phazon
12-30-2007, 08:15 PM
But Altair was still HIS superior.

jcody
12-30-2007, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Kid_Phazon:
But Altair was still HIS superior.

who's? and when?

He was malik's superior in soloman's temple, but don't you think he was rewarded a higher rank due to retriving the piece of eden hence the black robe like al mualum?

Xthe_assassinX
12-30-2007, 08:36 PM
Possible, since Altair needs permission from the bureau leader to assassinate someone. Well not really permission, but they give him that feather thing to get their blood on. Kind of like they are higher up than him because they are allowing him to go and do it after he gets the information. They might also be just regular assassins who can't do their job anymore because they are too old or something. I know one of them has no arm, Malik, then there is a really old one, I think there are two of them, and then the guy who wants Altairs nuts, I think he is in damascus, but I'm not sure.

Kid_Phazon
12-30-2007, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Xthe_assassinX:
Possible, since Altair needs permission from the bureau leader to assassinate someone. Well not really permission, but they give him that feather thing to get their blood on. Kind of like they are higher up than him because they are allowing him to go and do it after he gets the information. They might also be just regular assassins who can't do their job anymore because they are too old or something. I know one of them has no arm, Malik, then there is a really old one, I think there are two of them, and then the guy who wants Altairs nuts, I think he is in damascus, but I'm not sure.
Thats just like letting him acsess the target, so I don't think he's a higher rank than Altair. And wouldn't Al Mualum's word override Maliks?

jcody
12-30-2007, 09:30 PM
Al mualim even says himself that Altair must get permission from malik/rafik/other guy. They must be satisfied with his investigation for him to recieve permission and the feather.

The question is, is this just a result of altair being stripped of his rank? Perhaps, but i still think the black robe signifies something..

Kid_Phazon
12-30-2007, 09:34 PM
What was the position called again?

jcody
12-30-2007, 09:39 PM
Which one? Altair's? Was Grand master right?

Kid_Phazon
12-30-2007, 09:40 PM
No Maliks position.

DreamerM
12-31-2007, 01:54 AM
Altair didn't NEED to report to buroughs before his disgrace. If you recall, when Al Mualim told him he couldn't begin his missions without permission from them, his reaction was "What Nonsense is this?" He's clearly not used to answering to them, or anyone really, besides Al Mualim himself.

It's not inconsievable that Malik was a Grand Master, but the loss of his arm would be the end of his curreer as an effective operative. Not only would it attract attention in a crowd (something no Assassin can afford) but he can't fight or climb anymore.

I think his appointment as a Souk burough leader was sort of a retirement for him. He's still respected and inhabits a lofty place where the younger Assassins can benefit from his judgment and be useful to the clan. But he can't be a Grand Master anymore.

Kid_Phazon
12-31-2007, 01:57 AM
It's not inconsievable that Malik was a Grand Master, but the loss of his arm would be the end of his curreer as an effective operative. Not only would it attract attention in a crowd (something no Assassin can afford) but he can't fight or climb anymore. Yeah, considering his left arm was cut off. Although he did say he could fight(last Mem Block)because his sword wielding arm was still strong.

DreamerM
12-31-2007, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by jcody:
i still think the black robe signifies something..

Probably that that leader is Al Mualim's representative. The young Assassins associate that black robe with an authority that must be obeyed.

It also means this person is not an active operative. Al Mualim himself does not go on missions, and Malik filled the role after his arm effectively ended his Assassin curreer. It's probably a common retirement position in the clan: sedentary, but respected, authoritative and very important.

DreamerM
12-31-2007, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by Kid_Phazon:
Yeah, considering his left arm was cut off. Although he did say he could fight(last Mem Block)because his sword wielding arm was still strong.

True, it wouldn't make him COMPLETELY unable to fight. However, it would affect his balance and reflexes (he's going to try and REACT as if he still has another arm there to steady him, even though he doesn't), and it'd make Parkour almost impossible.

When I replay the very first part of the game, I'll check to see if Malik and Bro have missing fingers...

jcody
12-31-2007, 08:39 AM
Malik's brother has his finger. He's just ..like a noob assassin.

Skaevola
12-31-2007, 01:23 PM
In the manual (or maybe the strat guide, I don't remember which), it says that Malik was the only one providing Altair with competition. I'll bet they were the only Grand Masters, until Malik got his arm lopped off.
Also, I was under the impression that Grand master was THE highest rank of assassin, except for the leader himself (who apparently has never actually assassinated anyone; Al Mualim has all ten fingers). I figure that bereau leaders aren't actually assassins, just assassins' assistants. After all, they never assassinate anyone. So you can't really be promoted from assassin to bereau leader, you wouldn't be an assassin anymore, right?
So Malik wasn't PROMOTED per se, just transferred to a different area, where he could still be helpful.

DreamerM
12-31-2007, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Wingf00t:
In the manual (or maybe the strat guide, I don't remember which), it says that Malik was the only one providing Altair with competition. I'll bet they were the only Grand Masters, until Malik got his arm lopped off.
Also, I was under the impression that Grand master was THE highest rank of assassin, except for the leader himself (who apparently has never actually assassinated anyone; Al Mualim has all ten fingers). I figure that bereau leaders aren't actually assassins, just assassins' assistants. After all, they never assassinate anyone. So you can't really be promoted from assassin to bereau leader, you wouldn't be an assassin anymore, right?
So Malik wasn't PROMOTED per se, just transferred to a different area, where he could still be helpful.

It's the stratagy guide that gives a rough bio of Malik, basically stating that he and Altair have been at odds for a long time, providing each other with healthy competition since way back.

Something in the relatively recent past must have happened to place Altair ahead of Malik: he seems pretty sure of his superiority when he orders the head-long attack on the templars.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-31-2007, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by DreamerM:
We know from Ubi's earlier statements that the finger was amputated in what Jade called a "pretty traumatic" intitiation ritual. Well, if loosing a finger was an initiation, why only Altair?

If that's what Ubi says, then I think they've messed up. It's about the stupidest idea ever. I mean it kinda makes you easy to spot. I doubt the Assassins would have used such a ritual because it makes it virtually impossible for the amputee to do his job. It would be like stamping 'KGB' on every Russian spy's forehead - pointless and completely counterproductive.

DreamerM
01-01-2008, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Beeryus:

If that's what Ubi says, then I think they've messed up. It's about the stupidest idea ever. I mean it kinda makes you easy to spot.

Thus why it would be something ONLY inflicted on Masters who, presumably, are formidable enough to handle a potential exposure. Sacrificing their flesh, blood, bone, and even anonimity to be better weapons for the Clan.

Besides, it's only a liability if the other guys know what it means, and there's no evidence that the Guards do.

AhoyTheFatMan
01-01-2008, 05:01 AM
hu r all the sketchy guys running around in black robes ova white robes?? ... according 2 wot sum of u r saying, and wot is sed on the game...

these black robed men must b bureau ppl lkn 4 info. (this is based on wot altair says to malik+co [going amongst the cities ppl looking 4 info])

ja??

the_assassin_07
01-01-2008, 06:05 AM
I've never seen people looking like that in the game...

jcody
01-01-2008, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by AhoyTheFatMan:
hu r all the sketchy guys running around in black robes ova white robes?? ... according 2 wot sum of u r saying, and wot is sed on the game...

these black robed men must b bureau ppl lkn 4 info. (this is based on wot altair says to malik+co [going amongst the cities ppl looking 4 info])

ja??

Please, PLEASE...just stop typing.

schoolboytom
01-01-2008, 05:49 PM
firstly to an earlier point the position of the people in the bureau is called a 'Rafique'.......

The people in the black i imagine are assassins but maybe not on a task..... maybe they where the robe to disguise their white robes?

Or perhaps all the people wearing th black robes are rafiques....... yes no?

You see you don't see many of the black robe assassins in the actual city..... and when he says looking for information form the people, i think the people who look for the information are just like the informants that help you in a mission.

I think Altair was the best assassin around at that time..... and Malik was one of his friend sin which he trained with who was at a similar standard to the standard that Altair was at before his demotion

Kid_Phazon
01-01-2008, 05:51 PM
Rafiques are rafiques. i think they are retired assassins.

DreamerM
01-01-2008, 07:23 PM
The people in black are civilians, family members of ladies I've saved who in turn provide human shields when I need them.

Kid_Phazon
01-01-2008, 07:24 PM
That depends on the city. The vigilantes differ from city to city.

DreamerM
01-01-2008, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Kid_Phazon:
That depends on the city. The vigilantes differ from city to city.

True. Doesn't change that they are not officially associated with the Assassins in any way: they owe Altair a personal favor which is why they'll jump in front of swords for ya.

jcody
01-02-2008, 10:48 AM
What? I'm not talking about vigilanties..

I'm talking about ASSASSIN's that wear the black robe over the normal assassin attire.

DreamerM
01-02-2008, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by jcody:
What? I'm not talking about vigilanties..

I'm talking about ASSASSIN's that wear the black robe over the normal assassin attire.

You mean the Rafiqs in the Assassin Buroughs? They wear black because Al Mualim does, and they're his stand-ins in that situation.

Kid_Phazon
01-02-2008, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by jcody:
What? I'm not talking about vigilanties..

I'm talking about ASSASSIN's that wear the black robe over the normal assassin attire. And how do yo know they have a uniform under?

jcody
01-02-2008, 06:09 PM
Because you can see it. You can see the red sash, brown belt, white robe. It's an open black robe.

The vigilanties are not assassins. They are friends/husbands of the people you save.



You mean the Rafiqs in the Assassin Buroughs? They wear black because Al Mualim does, and they're his stand-ins in that situation.

Yes, these are the people i am talking about (among others)

I think the black robe may have a signifigant meaning of "rank." Of course that is WHY they wear black. And, that is why it is safe to assume they are above the assassins, because they are adorned the same way as the leader of the assassin's, it is safe to assume it means something in terms of rank.

DreamerM
01-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Malik also makes an offhand comment about how he judges rank "not by the bars on one's robe" but by actions.

Question is, how "uniform" can a clandestine group of political killers really afford to be?

DreamerM
01-06-2008, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by Kid_Phazon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jcody:
What? I'm not talking about vigilanties..

I'm talking about ASSASSIN's that wear the black robe over the normal assassin attire. And how do yo know they have a uniform under? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And where did you see them?

jcody
01-06-2008, 12:46 PM
Random guys walking around masyaf, bureau leaders, and al mualim himself all wear what i am talking about. Just walk around masyaf in the crowds.

j3peaz
01-06-2008, 01:23 PM
about the ranking system: the assassins are like a community, and each person(assassins) has a position within the community.

e.i. altair performs the assassins, informers gather information, the bureau leaders are representatives of al mualim and act kinda like a hotel

all members of the assassin society have a different purpose.

and as for a missing finger being conspicuous, it was not uncommon for missing limbs or other body parts. think about it, they didnt have any advanced medicine, maybe something to numb pain, crude anti-biotic, etc. However a missing arm would stand out more than a missing finger.