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Bewolf
04-24-2007, 05:52 AM
Ok. I have been on this forum from the times before even the demo was released. I followed it all, from the first fights over the 109G6/AS vs. LA5FN debate over the bar in the 190 and the aircobra complains (yes, back then the Cobra was "the beast"). I seriously have seen a lot and grew accustomed to it.

But lately this all went so much worse it's hardly bearable anymore. A new climax is ppl getting called Nazis and Ayran superrace supporters just for advocating a frickkin piece of machinery. Personal attacks and offenses are thrown around to a degree that makes discussions appear as if the war never stopped and it is all about "winning" instead of coming to conclusions. And not even about soldiers or humans in general from both sides, which at least would make those emotions understandable, but dead, cold machines without any soul but that ppl are willing to give them.
There is "no" discussion culture left on this board, just nitpicking and offenses. Instead of proving ppl wrong with constructive postings and just letting it go if one feels offended or having the feeling that no conclusion can be reached, they go on into fights like they never left kindergarten. Considering that most here are 30+ this is astonishing. Heated discussions are ok, but darn, it really does not need this trash.
It especially does not need phrases like "He offended! So I must offend, too!" That just makes me cringe and feel like having to response with the typical "And if others jump from a bridge.." example, no matter their age.

So, folks, an honest appeal to everybody here. Spare yourselves any personal references. Stick to topic. Act like grown ups proper to your age. And if you do not like something, or see a discussion not going anywhere, just drop it. I just do not see this forum ruled by vocal ppl that can't help but to be offensive for whatever reasons and/or see this forum as their personal playground like Hayateace, Hops, Josf, Sergio, Kurfürst, Luftluuver, Targert and all the other names.

I think we all would benefit from that.

JG52Uther
04-24-2007, 06:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif This would make a great locked sticky mods (minus the names http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

FliegerAas
04-24-2007, 06:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

LStarosta
04-24-2007, 06:47 AM
Where's all my gangstas and all my thugs
Throw yo hands in the air and show some love
I welcome you to Detroit City
I said welcome to Detroit City

DKoor
04-24-2007, 07:07 AM
I tend to disagree... we must have a strong "gray eminence" to rule the boards with iron hand - I'll make a quick quote...
Hayateace, Hops, Josf, Sergio, Kurfürst, Luftluuver, Targert and all the other names. ...because no one else is capable.
And we all know that when cat is not around, mices go wild http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Plus others are usually boring to death.

flyingloon
04-24-2007, 07:13 AM
Godwin's law

AKA_TAGERT
04-24-2007, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Bewolf:
I think we all would benefit from that. Poor Nancy

mango42
04-24-2007, 07:22 AM
I haven't read enough to know whether this is a personal vendetta or no but may I dare suggest that in the present world climate of fear and aggression, there may be a certain level of cognitive dissonance occurring amongst us flight sim fans?

Personally I would love to have the very best sim in the world (this one!) develop a 'between wars' sim that follows the development of flight from the Sopwiths to say the Dragon Rapide, not forgetting the origin of the Spitfire in the Schneider Cup entries. Waterborn pylon racing, anyone?

I've been contemplating posting my latest 'mission' but as its focus is the (faked with Kuban map) USS Halliburton escaping through the Straits of Hormuz with a whole passle of crude oil ships, I suspect it might not go down too well with some of our brethren here...

Hey ho.

mango

.

Te_Vigo
04-24-2007, 09:28 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif too

Sadly it seems, sledging is the way the world is going. Play the player, not the ball has become the game and it sux.

The netanderthals and trolls will never rule.


( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif did I just create a new word?)

Phil_K
04-24-2007, 10:21 AM
Are you suggesting that people who spend all their time in small rooms flying pretend aeroplanes on their computers may in some way be socially deficient?

I can't think of a more outrageous suggestion.

LEXX_Luthor
04-24-2007, 10:34 AM
mango::
I've been contemplating posting my latest 'mission' but as its focus is the (faked with Kuban map) USS Halliburton escaping through the Straits of Hormuz with a whole passle of crude oil ships, I suspect it might not go down too well with some of our brethren here...
Unless Oleg made changes in 46+, ships go down almost too well in five minutes or less.

Pirschjaeger
04-24-2007, 10:40 AM
Can someone be my friend? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

BSS_Goat
04-24-2007, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
Are you suggesting that people who spend all their time in small rooms flying pretend aeroplanes on their computers may in some way be socially deficient?

I can't think of a more outrageous suggestion.


I mean who woulda thunk it?

Monty_Thrud
04-24-2007, 11:15 AM
We must all do the chant...

Calm blue ocean...

Little fluffy clouds

Calm blue ocean...

Little fluffy clouds

CALM FREAKIN' BLUE BLOODY OCEAN

FREAKIN' FLUFFY BLOODY CLOUDS...WHICH DON'T EVEN LOOK LIKE BLOOMIN' CLOUDS....AAAARRRGGGGHHH!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Ernst_Rohr
04-24-2007, 11:18 AM
That unfortunately is the "Internet Effect", since you cant see them, and dont know them personally, some folks take that as entitlement to act like complete unabashed gigantic tools.

As we have seen many times, even banning them doesnt stop it, they just come back with a new name in order to spread their misery to the rest of the board.

I like to fly virtual planes. I come here to discuss virtual planes, not to argue about politics, who should have won the war, or any other such sundry nonsense.

One thing I may point out though; there is a working IGNORE feature on this board. All you have to do is plug the offender on your ignore list, and you never see another post from them. It may ruin the continuity of a thread, but it does spare you from any further assaults to your sensibility.

Plus, if they get ignored enough, they might actually get a clue (wishful thinking I know).

There are an awful lot of very good people with constructive opinions here, who do post in good faith. We shouldnt let a couple of fanatical idiots with agendas spoil it for the rest of us.

MEGILE
04-24-2007, 11:32 AM
Hard to imagine people getting offended by binary data on a remote server, but alas tis true.

WWSpinDry
04-24-2007, 11:47 AM
This thread is offending me.

JG14_Josf
04-24-2007, 11:49 AM
It especially does not need phrases like "He offended! So I must offend, too!" That just makes me cringe and feel like having to response with the typical "And if others jump from a bridge.." example, no matter their age.

To Whom It May Concern:

I like the old saying: When in Rome – do as the Romans do.

How about this one:

If you can't stand the heat – get out of the kitchen.

A moderator once told me:

"... either you grow thick skin.... or"

I write and read on this forum to learn more about a variety of subjects the least of which may be the subject of forum behavior (how to behave on a forum).

Anyone at anytime, as someone in this thread has pointed out, can ignore what they prefer to avoid reading and/or writing about.

I notice that I have made someone's list. That is fine. Being grouped into a select group is part of the cost of participating on this forum.

Either you grow thick skin...or...

Or you point fingers at people who do?

Am I getting ˜off-topic' (again)?

AKA_TAGERT
04-24-2007, 11:59 AM
Poooor Nancy

mango42
04-24-2007, 12:01 PM
@LEXX_Luthor

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You are still flying my favorite IL2 plane, I see...

As for Oleg's ships, they suit this scenario fine then, IMO...

mango

Bewolf
04-24-2007, 12:02 PM
The way I see it it's a simple matter of "manners". And it does not matter if this applies to real life or the internet. That said, I am very well aware of internet anonymity and all that results in this. But this forum in the past couple months beats whatever I have seen before by a fair margin.

Grow a thick skin? Why and what for? Did acceptance of such behaviour grow to such a level that it is all right to offend out of the blue and out of pure principle and those that think it is out of line have to adjust?

Ernst_Rohr
04-24-2007, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Bewolf:
The way I see it it's a simple matter of "manners". And it does not matter if this applies to real life or the internet. That said, I am very well aware of internet anonymity and all that results in this. But this forum in the past couple months beats whatever I have seen before by a fair margin.

Grow a thick skin? Why and what for? Did acceptance of such behaviour grow to such a level that it is all right to offend out of the blue and out of pure principle and those that think it is out of line have to adjust?

Its the Internet, there is no expectation of manners here because there is no fear of repercussions. That plus the collective "its all about me" mentality we have nowadays = professional forum trolls.

flyingloon
04-24-2007, 02:04 PM
in the same vein that you can ignore people being well, bad mannered or plain ol trollish, you can ignore someone's posts and not reply aggresively. take raaids "how do i ignore" thread, and watch it turn into a raaid bashing exercise in short order.
good manners don't necessarily follow when there's no result from showing them or not.

MB_Avro_UK
04-24-2007, 04:17 PM
Hi all,

Does the same problem apply to the German forum??

Best Regards & Grüße!
MB_Avro.

JG14_Josf
04-24-2007, 04:53 PM
Grow a thick skin? Why and what for?

Did history start this morning? This topic subject, like so many other topic subjects, rewrites itself again and again with minor changes in wording with the same general outcome i.e. a diversity of opinions remain relatively convinced of the validity of their viewpoint and a few people admit to having moved forward toward a more agreeable understanding.

I could, for example, ask for specific reasons why my name managed to appear on the "list". Why bother? The end result will probably be the same result as the reasons why my name managed to appear on the list. I call it misrepresentation. You can call it whatever you wish. My guess is that you won't site any legitimate reason for pointing your finger my way concerning the cause of the flame fest infested on this forum.

The reason for you to place my name on your list of offenders exists. What might that reason be I wonder? What, for example, would your reaction be to someone continually misrepresenting you, misrepresenting what you write, and then calling you names with the obvious intent to cause hate and discontent, on purpose, despite every effort asking politely to stop?

Please stop misrepresenting me in your communications on this forum. If you must place me among the people who find it entertaining to cause hate, if that is your communication, then consider, at least, to link a reference to an example of this intent.

The forum didn't start today. There is a long history of plenty of examples of people trying to communicate here and having honest, polite, and informative communications (even if they are not exactly accurate) responded to with vicious personal attacks and that is the least of the problems here on this flame fest forum. The worst part of running the gauntlet here is manifested in misrepresentation. Many posters here have their own personal editors who hover like vultures. An original post or a response to a post is often badly understood or down right misrepresented as if the reader (the troll) has the greater authority to interpret the words written by the original writer. The trolls work together in teams, like a pack of jackals, grasping at any angle of misdirection, hyperbole, or Straw-Man argument, for the sake of argument, for entertainment, for a laugh, as if their conscience has no boundary, again, as if they alone (and their fellow trolls) have the capacity to know more about what another person thinks, and writes, and tries to explain, discuss, and work out, than the person thinking, writing, and trying to communicate to other people who might have a interest in that subject.

The latest climb rate 109K-4 (high boost) thread is one example. That subject interests me. During that thread I've been attacked for trying to cause the thread to be locked and that accusation sticks – perhaps (it is not true). Do you know how such misrepresentations work? In politics it is called slinging mud. If the politician can sling enough mud, long enough, some of it may stick.

I did not want that thread to be locked. I wanted to know if the 109K-4 (high boost) GAME test was a cold start tests (where the overheat takes longer to take effect) and if the REAL test was conducted in a manner that is accurately comparable to the GAME test. I wanted to know. I wanted more accurate information according to the author of the tests – in his own words.

What is the reply received for asking honest questions?

Poor Nancy?

I told you already?

If the reply received were only Poor Nancy, then, that would be merely unfortunate when the idea is to gain more accurate information. What happens when the reply is a claim that your honest questions seeking accurate answers are (according to the accuser) attacks on the person intending to have the thread locked? What happens when the accusation is repeated often enough? What happens when the accusation is seconded by another poster (without any evidence sighted by either)?

What happens when the accuser points out, as a matter of fact, that the accusation lacks any evidence to back it up? What happens then when the accuser is accused of moving the topic off-topic?

What happens?

The trolls own the forum unless you are willing to rewrite your version of what you think over an over again in direct response to all the efforts intending to claim authority over what you write, or, if you simply do not post.

I can speak for myself. If you put me on your list of trolls, trouble makers, whatever, then, kindly, please, expose your accusation more accurately.

Spare yourself any personal references? Did you actually mean what you wrote? Do you see your duplicity? What do you actually mean? Do as you say not as you do?

Do you know the difference between offense and defense? Did I volunteer to place you on the public enemy number one list?


Spare yourselves any personal references. Stick to topic. Act like grown ups proper to your age. And if you do not like something, or see a discussion not going anywhere, just drop it. I just do not see this forum ruled by vocal ppl that can't help but to be offensive for whatever reasons and/or see this forum as their personal playground like Hayateace, Hops, Josf, Sergio, Kurfürst, Luftluuver, Targert and all the other names.


Did I read that right?

M_Gunz
04-24-2007, 06:12 PM
Is it comfort food time?

LStarosta
04-24-2007, 06:13 PM
The term "comfort food" is part of the reason why America is obese.

M_Gunz
04-24-2007, 06:59 PM
You totally miss the reference. What would Rosey do? Or Roseanne?

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-24-2007, 06:59 PM
I respect the authors opinion. But in my opinion if you do not like what you read then gather some self control and stop reading it. Dont feel compelled to post yourself because you think you have some valid point that will change the course of a thread gone bad. Because in all honestly these type of individuals really dont give a shiit what you think and no matter what you say it will never change their online personality.

Its pretty simple if you dont like a thread dont read it and dont post and forum nature will run its course. The thread will fade away with the rest of the bs and nobody gets hurt. At least this has been my philosophy for several years now. But if one insist on getting themselves frustrated over typed text so be it. Its your brain not mine.

LStarosta
04-24-2007, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
You totally miss the reference. What would Rosey do? Or Roseanne?

No, I understood, but I also wanted to digress.

heywooood
04-24-2007, 07:59 PM
what is what with this forum lately?

but I digest....

MrMojok
04-24-2007, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
Are you suggesting that people who spend all their time in small rooms flying pretend aeroplanes on their computers may in some way be socially deficient?

I can't think of a more outrageous suggestion.

Phil, would you mind if I quoted that in my signature?

M_Gunz
04-24-2007, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Bewolf:
A new climax is ppl getting called Nazis and Ayran superrace supporters just for advocating a frickkin piece of machinery.

It depends on how you advocate that piece of machinery doesn't it?

Like if you say it is superior because the men who made it were superior by dint of race or
nationality either directly or by strong inference then yah, you've just offended everyone
not of that group and whatcha think yer gonna get? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Not that YOU have done this
but it has happened here before.

My brother tells me of something his very British friend told him once. He told my brother
that the British are brought up to be unfailingly polite (at least in his experience) but not
to think that polite always means nice. They have many ways of saying utterly nasty things
in entirely polite ways.

Dress up skank and it's still skank, only it's more self-important skank.

lowfighter
04-24-2007, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:


My brother tells me of something his very British friend told him once. He told my brother
that the British are brought up to be unfailingly polite (at least in his experience) but not
to think that polite always means nice. They have many ways of saying utterly nasty things
in entirely polite ways.



Haha, too true, felt it on my own skin, and it took some time to realise how powerful it is.

fordfan25
04-24-2007, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
The term "comfort food" is part of the reason why America is obese. its just big boned you ape http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Pirschjaeger
04-25-2007, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
The term "comfort food" is part of the reason why America is obese. its just big boned you ape http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought "fluffy" was politically correct.

Lucius_Esox
04-25-2007, 01:43 AM
It's fun,, and I enjoy it,,,,

I get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I log on..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Ermm..

MEGILE
04-25-2007, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
It's fun,, and I enjoy it,,,,

I get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I log on..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Ermm..

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

warm and fuzzy every time

ViktorViktor
04-25-2007, 03:35 AM
I've grown to regard this forum as a sort of Round Table, the forum members being Knights of the Round Table.

And what has now happened is that we're nearing the end of the Search for the Holy Grail (SOW BOB in this case) and the fellowship of the Round Table is falling apart, just like in Morte d' Arthur. Instead of riding around hacking each other up with swords and settling old grudges with a lance, we flail away at former comrades-in-arms with forum posts while waiting for BOB.

Alas, the end cometh.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

MrMojok
04-25-2007, 04:08 AM
YES!

Arthur=AKA_TAGERT
Lancelot=LStarosta
Mordred=Kurfurst
Sir Robin=Sir_Robin1337
Morgana la Fey=LeBillfish

MEGILE
04-25-2007, 04:14 AM
Can I be Merlin? I got Wizad skillz

John_Wayne_
04-25-2007, 06:00 AM
Sorta sums it all up.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Spamalot_Poster.jpg



http://www.spamspamspamspam.co.uk/go/game/

Haigotron
04-25-2007, 07:06 AM
Don't you see this thread is tearing us apart?!

ViktorViktor
04-25-2007, 07:06 AM
You mean Spamalot instead of Camelot ?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WWSpinDry
04-25-2007, 08:22 AM
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

WWSensei
04-25-2007, 09:49 AM
There are no problems on the forum that can't be solved with The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. thy number is three...not four....not two....but three.

faustnik
04-25-2007, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Can I be Merlin? I got Wizad skillz

I want to be the Vorpal Bunny!

polak5
04-25-2007, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Bewolf:

Instead of proving ppl wrong with constructive postings and just letting it go if one feels offended or having the feeling that no conclusion can be reached, they go on into fights like they never left kindergarten. Considering that most here are 30+ this is astonishing.

No offense, but watching relatively older peeps and baby boomers argue is somewhat funny... and somewhat sad. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nonetheless this forum would be better without some of the crappy "Internet Drama"

BuzzU
04-25-2007, 08:03 PM
The forum looks the same to me. No better. No worse.

DKoor
04-25-2007, 08:14 PM
OK.... is it decided who's gonna be teh Merlin yet?
I have some favor to ask from him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Pirschjaeger
04-26-2007, 01:10 AM
I more or less agree with Bewulf and I and a few others have, at various times in the past, posted similar concerns. I think drawing attention to the lack of selfcontrol, respect, and accountability of some members does makes a difference, even if just a little.

I've also noticed that the aggressive attitudes seem to come in cycles. Is it rutting season already? It is spring and typically this is the breeding season of those in the northern hemisphere. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Think of it as whizzing on a keyboard to mark territory. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MEGILE
04-26-2007, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
OK.... is it decided who's gonna be teh Merlin yet?
I have some favor to ask from him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Sorry I can't help you put trim on a slider, it's against wizard ethics.

DKoor
04-26-2007, 06:14 AM
Wasn't that, that was a n00b thing back in 2002/2003.... I was thinking of something more serious. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

DuxCorvan
04-26-2007, 08:06 AM
What happens is... no mo' goodies for Il-2, and no mo' news about SoW. With nothing to expect, people soon get tired of repetitive topics and start b*tching around.

ploughman
04-26-2007, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
What happens is... no mo' goodies for Il-2, and no mo' news about SoW. With nothing to expect, people soon get tired of repetitive topics and start b*tching around.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Daiichidoku
04-26-2007, 09:15 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/crumb-music.jpg

BuzzU
04-26-2007, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
What happens is... no mo' goodies for Il-2, and no mo' news about SoW. With nothing to expect, people soon get tired of repetitive topics and start b*tching around.

Here's a thought. Go fly!

M_Gunz
04-26-2007, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I've also noticed that the aggressive attitudes seem to come in cycles.

Like the new patch; get pwned; go whine instead of change and learn cycle?
Or the I'm sick to death of all the whining cycle that runs behind that?