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View Full Version : Here goes a trite question: how does one navigate?



akumadarkhadou
01-15-2010, 06:12 PM
I haven't played this game for awhile. There is one thing I haven't been able to ever figure out: how does one navigate? I know there is a map in-game, I know there is a map in the briefing, and I also know that some planes have navigation-type compasses. So, how does one navigate when no information is provided without using a map?

AndyJWest
01-15-2010, 07:10 PM
Well, without a map you either have to know the area well, use dead reckoning, or get vectors via 'radio' Pressing Tab, 8, 2 will get you a vector to base:
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/BaseVector.jpg

Tab, 8, 3 should get you a vector to target, though I've never used this.

Note that the vector given is rounded down to the nearest 30-degree interval, so the base in the pic could be anywhere from 210 degrees to 239 degrees. I normally add 15 degrees to the direction given, and steer that. You need to recheck regularly, particularly as you get close to home.

Depending on difficulty settings, the map may or may not have a position indicator on it. I cant see any real objection to using a map without indicators - it is probably realistic, as most fighter aircraft have map compartments and pilots would be expected to be able to use them.

danjama
01-15-2010, 07:25 PM
On many maps you can also use landmarks, such as rivers, forests and villages, and match them up to the shapes/sizes on your minimap.

M_Gunz
01-15-2010, 08:41 PM
I knew a man who occasionally delivered airplanes from Kansas east. He followed train tracks and roads and watched
for roofs with big arrows painted on them. The arrows point to an airport. That and his maps was his main nav.

I use the heading to base (a transmitter there?) to tell me what wedge of the map to try and match features I see
from cockpit. Rivers and mountains are good, forests good, cities and airfields though are gold. Roads and railways
ain't too bad either, they lead somewhere.

AndyJWest
01-15-2010, 09:09 PM
I knew a man who occasionally delivered airplanes from Kansas east. He followed train tracks...

A very old navigational technique, though not without it's hazards. As I recall, one of the first airline accidents occured through two planes following the same track in opposite directions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The IL-2 In-game map is fairly basic, but there is often enough detail to figure out where you are if you have a rough idea already, and have a fair bit of altitude. It's not much help looking for a carrier in the middle of the Pacific though. There, a 'vector to base' is about all you have to go on.

Zeus-cat
01-15-2010, 09:26 PM
You can actually do it like they did in real life.

1) Measure the distances and angles on the map in the briefing.

2) Then calculate how long you need to fly each leg at a certain speed (make sure you use actual speed to determine the time and then convert that to indicated speed to account for altitude.)

3) Use a watch to time yourself for each leg.

If you are careful and accurate you can fly missions without the mini-map.

M_Gunz
01-16-2010, 12:15 AM
Accounting for wind-drift.

SeaFireLIV
01-16-2010, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I knew a man who occasionally delivered airplanes from Kansas east. He followed train tracks and roads and watched
for roofs with big arrows painted on them. The arrows point to an airport. That and his maps was his main nav.

I use the heading to base (a transmitter there?) to tell me what wedge of the map to try and match features I see
from cockpit. Rivers and mountains are good, forests good, cities and airfields though are gold. Roads and railways
ain't too bad either, they lead somewhere.

In IL2 I have followed a train track, road and rivers to targets before, quite successfully. I have studied the map in game first, map notes of the landmarks then follow that.

Of course, i have used bearings too and always know which way heads to friendly lines on the compass so that if I get lost, I know just to keep heading 090 (or whatever it is) until I`m out of danger. If the compass gets hit i`m in real trouble. Hmmm. Just occured to me I could try using the sun to navigate in those cases.

The vector headings also work very well, especially getting you back to base, but this didn`t exist until the 4.08 Patch, I believe.

That doesn`t mean I don`t get lost. I do, especially if I meet contacts on the way or have to divert from the arranged course, or if in bad weather.

I do like flying this way as it feels so much like the experiences the real guys had when navigating and it`s amazing how many of them kept getting lost!

Choctaw111
01-16-2010, 07:41 AM
The in game map will always be available, however, depending on your difficulty, you will see a map with no icons to include your own plane.
It is up to you to look around and get a visual reference on your position.
This is something we call "terrain association" in the military.
Just look around to any identifiable terrain features and look for the same thing on your map.
Once you get used to doing this, is generally does not take too long to figure our where you are.
It also is a big help to know the point on the map you are starting from.

jarink
01-16-2010, 09:45 AM
FYI, the official term for following train tracks, rivers, landmarks, etc. is "pilotage".

Zues, "real" navigation on maps that aren't 1:1 scale is more difficult and distances aren't normally given in briefings. In fact, I don't know of any way to reliably calculate distances from the mission briefings or while in flight.
Suggestions?

AndyJWest
01-16-2010, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
... "real" navigation on maps that aren't 1:1 scale is more difficult and distances aren't normally given in briefings. In fact, I don't know of any way to reliably calculate distances from the mission briefings or while in flight.
Suggestions?

The numbered/lettered squares are modelled at 10 Km, regardless of whether the map has been 'shrunk' relative to reality. This is fairly easy to verify by comparing groungspeed with time taken to cross a square. An easy figure to work with is 10Km (I square) in two minutes at 300 km/h TAS. Don't get confused by the way the map changes square sizes if you enlarge/reduce it enough.

M_Gunz
01-16-2010, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The vector headings also work very well, especially getting you back to base, but this didn`t exist until the 4.08 Patch, I believe.

Even the 2001 demo 109 had a working waypoint finder instrument modeled right on the instrument panel. It's still
there. Some planes got it in one form or another, some don't. IIRC we had vector headings to base from the start too.

M_Gunz
01-16-2010, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by jarink:
FYI, the official term for following train tracks, rivers, landmarks, etc. is "pilotage".

Originally a nautical term.

Sokol__1
01-16-2010, 01:23 PM
1) Measure the distances and angles on the map in the briefing.

2) Then calculate how long you need to fly each leg at a certain speed (make sure you use actual speed to determine the time and then convert that to indicated speed to account for altitude.)

3) Use a watch to time yourself for each leg.

If you are careful and accurate you can fly missions without the mini-map.



I use this technique in Pacific maps - no landmarks - with success in sortie that last about one hour. Careful check sun position in take off help.

Sokol1

WTE_Ibis
01-17-2010, 03:34 AM
You can use the old IFR method.

I Fly by Road. Most main roads lead to major cities and therefore airfields.


.

K_Freddie
01-18-2010, 12:00 PM
When sitting in aircraft.. you'll notice a clear transparent plexiglass surrounding your head, enabling unobstructed visuals of the outside world.

You may use this opportunity to establish prominent landmarks, that would be available on the supplied flight map that you've studied in detail before you stepped into the cockpit.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Frankthetank36
01-18-2010, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
You can actually do it like they did in real life.

1) Measure the distances and angles on the map in the briefing.

2) Then calculate how long you need to fly each leg at a certain speed (make sure you use actual speed to determine the time and then convert that to indicated speed to account for altitude.)

3) Use a watch to time yourself for each leg.

If you are careful and accurate you can fly missions without the mini-map.

But the map doesn't have a scale, so how are you supposed to know how long anything will take? When looking for enemy fleets (usually over short distances as I fly online) I just fly a heading at a decently high altitude that lets me spot the ships. I find navigation in the ETO much more difficult, as the roads are often tiny and spotting tanks and stuff is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

AndyJWest
01-18-2010, 12:39 PM
...the map doesn't have a scale...
As I posted earlier, the numbered/lettered squares are 10 Km.

thefruitbat
01-18-2010, 12:49 PM
of course the maps have a scale, as andy says one square is 10km by 10km,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/1801201019-46-18.jpg

note the squares in the screenshothttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

K_Freddie
01-18-2010, 02:24 PM
More importantly.. keep track of your course,time, and season. Sunrise in the East and Sunset in the West, in case you haven't noticed.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AndyJWest
01-18-2010, 02:37 PM
One more thing. If you think you've found your home base and the AAA opens up on you, you haven't. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Made that mistake myself once. I'm not sure there is a name for the manouvre I pulled. Somewhere between a barrel roll, a split 'S' and a wingover, all at low speed with the wheels retracting. All it requires is to jam the throttle full open then fight to get the darned thing upright again before you hit the deck. Not reccomended, but I got away with it...

K_Freddie
01-18-2010, 03:01 PM
Classic FW190 lo-n-slo move..
Well done Sir.. you've discovered the secret..
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif