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stathem
06-24-2005, 12:04 PM
In your opinion, which single unit of any Air Force had the greatest impact on WWII?

with reasoning, please.

LStarosta
06-24-2005, 12:10 PM
You're asking for a flamewar....

PBNA-Boosher
06-24-2005, 12:10 PM
303 and the rest of the Polish squadrons of WW2, however, I also would like to add in:

586 IAP
125th GvBAP (Marina Raskova Guards Bomber Regiment)
46th GvNBAP (Taman Guards Night Bomber Regiment)

these squadrons produced a remarkable foward push for women in the aviation industry, so they could be hailed as great squadrons as well. Besides, they did their jobs better than several other male squadrons.

boxmike
06-24-2005, 12:27 PM
Sorry for wasting room for this reply, I agree with Starosta. Taking beer and snack to my seat anyway.
Nuff said, that is actually very good question, my first bet is for 'Enola Gay' bomb group(fill me in?).

-boxter

jeroen_R90S
06-24-2005, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by stathem:
In your opinion, which single unit of any Air Force had the greatest impact on WWII?

with reasoning, please.

JG1 in WWI had the biggest impact on the air war of WWII by making Hermann G├┬Âring survive. Thus the Luftwaffe ended up being commanded by an incompetent officer... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jeroen

p1ngu666
06-24-2005, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by jeroen_R90S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
In your opinion, which single unit of any Air Force had the greatest impact on WWII?

with reasoning, please.

JG1 in WWI had the biggest impact on the air war of WWII by making Hermann G├┬Âring survive. Thus the Luftwaffe ended up being commanded by an incompetent officer... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jeroen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

617 - dambusters, making the impossible, possible
PRU - pilots rest unit, where they went over enemy terrotory alone with no guns and bought back amazing pictures http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
tuskegee - saving lives, and pwning racists http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

too many to list really http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

horseback
06-24-2005, 12:51 PM
Bombing and/or Scouting 6 at Midway, or the Torpedo squadrons that were sacrificed in drawing the Japanese fighters down to sea level immediately before the divebombers struck. The Enterprise's divebombers took out two or three of the 4 Japanese carriers in the turning point of the Pacific war, so they get my vote.

Midway was the only battle of any long reaching ramifications during the war where single units of aircraft had a decisive effect, although the Enola Gay's outfit does deserve some consideration.

The divebomber squads at Midway had a tougher job by far, though.

cheers

horseback

stathem
06-24-2005, 01:39 PM
Ahh, you're all too good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You got my 2 within 6 posts. I'd give it to horsebacks, but I think 617 run them very close - not for the Dams, but for smashing the V3 (and a lot of V1 and V2) site with Tallboys - and for running the Radar spoof in the Pas de Calais the night/morning of D-Day.

I think maybe the fact the Midway divebombers weren't a special duties squadron jsut tips it their favour.

I like Boosher's 303 idea - without the combat experienced Poles and Czechs the RAF might well have lost BoB. (and thanks for the info on the female units)

p1ngu666
06-24-2005, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by stathem:
Ahh, you're all too good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You got my 2 within 6 posts. I'd give it to horsebacks, but I think 617 run them very close - not for the Dams, but for smashing the V3 (and a lot of V1 and V2) site with Tallboys - and for running the Radar spoof in the Pas de Calais the night/morning of D-Day.

I think maybe the fact the Midway divebombers weren't a special duties squadron jsut tips it their favour.

I like Boosher's 303 idea - without the combat experienced Poles and Czechs the RAF might well have lost BoB. (and thanks for the info on the female units)

u forgot the turpitz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 02:30 PM
100th Guards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stathem
06-24-2005, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
Ahh, you're all too good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You got my 2 within 6 posts. I'd give it to horsebacks, but I think 617 run them very close - not for the Dams, but for smashing the V3 (and a lot of V1 and V2) site with Tallboys - and for running the Radar spoof in the Pas de Calais the night/morning of D-Day.

I think maybe the fact the Midway divebombers weren't a special duties squadron jsut tips it their favour.

I like Boosher's 303 idea - without the combat experienced Poles and Czechs the RAF might well have lost BoB. (and thanks for the info on the female units)

u forgot the turpitz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yep, they did a tremendous job with that, I just don't think the Tirpitz was particularly decisive - it would have got whacked anyway if it had ever left that Fjord

p1ngu666
06-24-2005, 02:34 PM
what did the 100th guards do ivan?

i dont know what they did http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LEBillfish
06-24-2005, 02:41 PM
Essentailly, one big unit in one single action. It affected the outcome of the war more then any other.....How much different might it have been, if the U.S. had waited even a year more....Just look at the number of planes...Now compare that to the numerous 100's-1,000's of plane missions to bomb say Germany.

Little planes, a very little force, a lot of planning...and they "awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with terrible resolve"..Yamamoto

Pearl Harbor Japanese Naval Air Group:
* Akagi, 1st Attack Unit 15 Kates 800-kg (1760-lb) armor-piercing bomb U.S.S. Maryland, U.S.S. Tennessee, or U.S.S. West Virginia
* Kaga, 2nd Attack Unit 14 Kates 800-kg (1760-lb) armor-piercing bomb U.S.S. Arizona/U.S.S. Vestal, U.S.S. Tennessee, or U.S.S. West Virginia
* Soryu, 3rd Attack Unit 10 Kates 800-kg (1760-lb) armor-piercing bomb U.S.S. Nevada, U.S.S. Tennessee, or U.S.S. West Virginia
* Hiryu, 4th Attack Unit 10 Kates 800-kg (1760-lb) armor-piercing bomb U.S.S. Arizona, U.S.S. California
* Akagi, 1st Torpedo Attack Unit 12 Kates Mk 91 aerial torpedo U.S.S. West Virginia, U.S.S. Oklahoma, or U.S.S. California
* Kaga, 2nd Torpedo Attack Unit 12 Kates Mk 91 aerial torpedo U.S.S. West Virginia, U.S.S. Oklahoma, or U.S.S. Nevada
* Soryu, 3rd Torpedo Attack Unit 8 Kates Mk 91 aerial torpedo U.S.S. Utah, U.S.S. Helena, U.S.S. California, or U.S.S. Raleigh
* Hiryu, 4th Torpedo Attack Unit 8 Kates Mk 91 aerial torpedo U.S.S. West Virginia, U.S.S. Oklahoma, or U.S.S. Helena
* Shokaku, 15th Attack Unit 26 Vals 250-kg (550-lb) general-purpose dive-bomb Hickam Field
* Zuikaku, 16th Attack Unit 25 Vals 250-kg (550-lb) general-purpose dive-bomb Wheeler Field
* Akagi, 1st Fighter Combat Unit 9 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Hickam Field, Ewa Air Control, and grounded aircraft at Ford Island
* Kaga, 2nd Fighter Combat Unit 9 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Hickam Field, Ford Island Air Control, and grounded aircraft at Ford Island
* Soryu, 3rd Fighter Combat Unit 8 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Wheeler Field, Ewa Air Control, and grounded aircraft at Barbers Point
* Hiryu, 4th Fighter Combat Unit 6 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Wheeler Field, Ewa Air Control, and grounded aircraft at Barbers Point
* Shokaku, 5th Fighter Combat Unit 6 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Naval Air Station Kaneohe, Bellows Field Air Control, and grounded aircraft at Kaneohe
* Zuikaku, 6th Fighter Combat Unit 5 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Air control and grounded aircraft at Kaneohe
* Shokaku, 5th Attack Unit 27 Kates (1) 250-kg (551-lb) general-purpose bomb and (6) 60-kg (132-lb) regular bombs bomb under fusilage
Kaneohe Naval Air Station
* Zuikaku, 6th Attack Unit 27 Kates (1) 250-kg (551-lb) general-purpose bomb and (6) 60-kg (132-lb) regular bombs Hickam Field
* Akagi, 13th Attack Unit 18 Vals 250-kg (551-lb) general purpose dive-bomb Ford Island NW, U.S.S. Neosho, U.S.S. Shaw, and U.S.S. Nevada
* Zuikaku, 14th Attack Unit 17 Vals 250-kg (551-lb) general purpose dive-bomb Navy Yard, U.S.S. California, and U.S.S. Maryland
* Soryu, 11th Attack Unit 17 Vals 250-kg (551-lb) general purpose dive-bomb Navy Yard, U.S.S. California, and U.S.S. Raleigh
* Kaga, 12th Attack Unit 26 Vals 250-kg (551-lb) general purpose dive-bomb U.S.S. Nevada, U.S.S. Maryland, and U.S.S. West Virginia
* Akagi, 1st Fighter Combat Unit 9 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Hickam Field
* Kaga, 2nd Fighter Combat Unit 9 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon Pearl Harbor
* Soryu, 3rd Fighter Combat Unit 9 Zeros 20-mm (.79-in) cannon

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 02:47 PM
Buhh, mixed them up... 16th Guards - Pokrishkins regiment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The most regarded in VVS IAP. 45th (100th) belong to the same division and produced almost as many aces. Both were under command of Pokrishkin later on i believe, when he became division commander


Some info on all of them here: http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/part2.htm

boxmike
06-24-2005, 03:29 PM
Ok,
U push everyone. Midway is a favorite, a myth was being born when VT-8 went into attack like those 600 brave. This time the hunted counted wrong and last survivor of torpedo squadron, George Gay, was actually observing something that turned the tide as those dive bombers disabled The Combined Fleet, except for Hiryu.
Now, I still have my vote for Black Thursday and I will keep it. Axis were forced to defence their Third Reich even during daytime, the stupid Americans were throwing their bombers in during broad daylight.
Actually, I'm quite convinced Steven Spielberg will make this 'Black Thursday' movie. Could there be something more visual in history?

- boxter

Bearcat99
06-24-2005, 05:51 PM
The more than obvious answer is ther was no single unit with the greatest impact... and it there were i would have to say that it was the entire 8th Airforce.

the_soupdragon
06-24-2005, 06:01 PM
Pah!!
RAF Bomber command. Some of these guys have 150-200 sorties. And with a 55% loss rate hanging over them. These guys are truely the Heroes of WWII. They also have to live with such a bad reputation, and still do and as yet there still isn't a Bomber command medal for the poor bastards who flew all these missions, yet they were throwing medals at the RAF fighter boys.

SD

F_vonIzabelin
06-24-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The more than obvious answer is ther was no single unit with the greatest impact... and it there were i would have to say that it was the entire 8th Airforce.
rather the TAF, the 8th bombed cites, but didnt stop the german war effort, Nazi Germany still produced gigantic amounts of war equipment in 1944/45 , it's main problem was lack of trained troops (pilot's etc...) and lack of "material" like fuel, high quality metals etc.., and this lack was not caused by the 8th.

While the TAF, had one of the greatest parts in destroying the German Army in the West, totaly disrupting their supply lines, organizaition, units etc..


BTW, why no units from the other side?
JG26? JG52? (they had 11000 air kills on the ost-fronthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JamesBlonde888
06-24-2005, 06:32 PM
JV-44 ma not have had a big influence on the direction that the war took but they certainly distinguished themselves by flying all jet fighters. I think there are some other LW units who did the same too.

Personally the Dambusters and the Tuskeegee Airmen are the only two to have had a film made about them so they must have been pretty good too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif