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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 10:27 PM
I really hate those Hurricanes!

They're some kind of cheater plane with incredible turn-rates that only a biplane can match, high diving speed ability, heavier armement than most soviet planes (4 x 20mm or 2 x 12.7mm + 2 x 20mm) and it even performs good at altitude! Just tried to fight the P51 at 10000m with a field mod hurri (4 vs. 4 quick mission builder). Although two of my mates were shot down during the first frontal attack i easily brought down three of the P51 at altitudes above 6500m (the fourth one being shot down by my mate)

This ain't funny! All my multiplayer maps have the hurri diabled! It's real cheater plane and i hope this will be corrected in the patch, at least to some degree.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 10:27 PM
I really hate those Hurricanes!

They're some kind of cheater plane with incredible turn-rates that only a biplane can match, high diving speed ability, heavier armement than most soviet planes (4 x 20mm or 2 x 12.7mm + 2 x 20mm) and it even performs good at altitude! Just tried to fight the P51 at 10000m with a field mod hurri (4 vs. 4 quick mission builder). Although two of my mates were shot down during the first frontal attack i easily brought down three of the P51 at altitudes above 6500m (the fourth one being shot down by my mate)

This ain't funny! All my multiplayer maps have the hurri diabled! It's real cheater plane and i hope this will be corrected in the patch, at least to some degree.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 10:37 PM
Britans first monoplane, its suppose to turn well, slow as watching grass grow, good guns for shooting bombers...whats wrong. Sure it has a few glitches in the FM that seem to be related to all planes but the hurri aint the super plane many make it out to be. I've seen I16s at that alt perform as well. Just out run the thing. Also you cant measure a planes performance from the quick mission builder.

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 10:38 PM
The Hurri is BS - hopefully it will get sorted. Unfortunately many aircraft perform similarly at altitude preventing the LW types from using their historical high-alt advantage /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:11 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
BOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO.

WTF are you complaining about?
The hurri is good but slow and you weenies fly La7 and K4 in DF server, its because you suck, its not a "cheater plane"
Quit yer b1tchin

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:28 PM
LOL

250Kph sustained turns? - Forever....
Zoom climbrates that can match an overmodelled Emil? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
High speed low energy bleed
High AOA moves etc etc etc

I could go on... The Hurri is bound to change in the patch

JG5_UnKle

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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:29 PM
Just because someone flys the La's doesn't mean they suck. They might be Russian.

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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:30 PM
still any 109 la yak mig lagg can outrun the hurri its not as bad as people think and its easily destroyed by anyplane

the i153 and i16 now theres some major bs fm damage model etc and they can even catch a hurricane in short limb and dives with the hurri trying to run level


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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:40 PM
it really tosses me off when noobs start whining about the hurri.first of all make a line between the mk1 and 2 i fly the mk1 most of the tine and any half arsed l/w pilot can give me a headache if he flies historically correct,mostly the people who whine about the hurri are total virgins who try to turn fight with it. your l/w boys didnt do that they picked their targets shot at them then scarperd,do the same and you may be succesfull but dont get all turney, our the hurri will kick your whiney ***!
sure there are a few fm issues but the hurri was a phenominal turner,read the books and you will have no doubt


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XyZspineZyX
07-06-2003, 11:59 PM
Fly the Hurry online all the time although am a relative newbie to online fling. Am not arguing that the planes FM might be unrealistic (as they all most prob are) but a good pilot in a Bf can run rings round you if he uses his plane right, as long as he don't try n'turn with you. Bnz tactics usually leave me lamely following around the sky tryin not to kill my airspeed for the inevatable attack. Thing is the Hurrican was, in real life, as in the game, an incredibly stable gun platform. If your a good shot you can cause havoc in this plane against people who don't take time out to use their own planes to their best advantages. It's heavily armed and damn easy to aim, which is right. It's also very slow!!

Once had someone complaining to me about the climb ability of the Hurry vis a vis his Bf. He was in level flight at about 2000m and just pulled his stick back when he saw me coming, I had over 1000m's of built up energy on him!!! doh.

In their career they killed a hell of a lot of German fighters ranging from Africa to Northern Russia. Once the Germans got there measure in terms of tactics and equipment (they always had that) they became easy meat.

Think that if online players instead of whining about their strongpoints started to look for their weakpoints the situation would become the same online as well for the competent pilots.....

just my twopenneth.

Lousy shot

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:10 AM
Don't get me wrong - the Hurri is easy to beat I don't have a problem with that. It's FM is plainly bogus though - you don't need a degree in Physics to figure it out.

The MkI is different compared to the MKII. But the MKII can hold it's own against an Emil if flown carefully. As I mentioned before - the Emil is overmodelled (some luftwhiner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) with a 22-24m/s climbrate - almost like a K-4. If the Hurri is competing against that, then the Hurri is clearly overmodelled also.

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:16 AM
Am sure am not getting that sort of climb rate sustained,, after a dive? I say this because in that plane I feel pretty "fragile" if someone knows what their doin, whatever the opponent!!

Still a bad shot

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:17 AM
hurri is normally easy to beat. but if flown by a top online ace you can climb to 3000 and once there even when you drop altitude you can keep your speed constantly at 500 if you dont turn sharp and dive at speeds of 700 . with that much speed and four hispanos that never miss and the ability to turn with I-16s if needed and out turn yak3s the hurri can become devastating. the only tactic to beat it is a late model 109 in b and z and even then the hurri can split s all day long and stay alive . even vs TWO 109 online aces...it wont get any kills against the two aces but he wont die either. i believe the hurri is SLIGHTLY overmodelled.make that alot. the only reason the hurri is easy to kill is people t an b it till its dead in the water in a huge furball. try b an z ing in it and everyones idea of a wimpy hurri will disappear.

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:44 AM
will try it

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 01:18 AM
The Hurri should turn well - granted. She should be able to take a few hits too - not a problem.

The Hurri doesn't bleed much energy turning and can perform some wild high AOA moves - not good. It also takes a heck of a long time to overheat even on full boost. Set supercharger to stage 2 and mix at 120% and she pushes 5000rpm for ages.

Couple that with it being difficult (not impossible) to over-rev and you have an excellent slow speed fighter and a great BnZ type - not anything like the Hurri IRL I'm afraid /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anyway, waiting for the patch /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 01:45 AM
Hurri's are my favorite targets while in german planes - They're so SLOW!!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:02 AM
THE HURRICANE WAS THE CREME OF THE BRITISH FIGHTERS

it could out turn the spitfire

it was a awesome turning A/C

people in LW aircraft have had a fight against russian A/C because there A/C have beed moddeled to perform close to or worse than russian ones in certian areas

this has been carried over to FB

but the Hurricane is slightly overmoddeled in the sence that it should stall a little eaiser than it does

it will not outclimb a Emil or G or K BF 109

the guns used onthe Mk IIc used incenderey bullets that were real nasty

it only has 1000 HP yet it STILL was a kick *** plane in the war

if you want to complain about overmoddeling look at the climb & accell of the chaikas & ratas

if you are getting shot down in your BF 109s by 1000HP hurricanes .... TOO BAD IT HAPPENED IN WW2 AS WELL

its going to stall a lot more & be slower again in the patch ( i know ) & nobody will be calling it a n00b plane then

BTW once the SPITFIRE makes it to FB me & my Hurricane wingmate are going to hunt FWs & BFs Exclusivly

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:09 AM
The Hurricane in greatly overmodelled, it will be fixed in the patch (Oleg's quote!)

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:13 AM
JG5_UnKle wrote:
- LOL
-
- 250Kph sustained turns? - Forever....
- Zoom climbrates that can match an overmodelled Emil?
- High speed low energy bleed
- High AOA moves etc etc etc
-
- I could go on... The Hurri is bound to change in the
- patch
-
- JG5_UnKle

Emil is faster and can nearly out turn a Hurricane and I don't know what your doing in a climb but I can out climb a Hurricane easy in that overmodelled Emil without any affort at all.

Also the Hurricane is very prone to control cable damage and catches fire really quickly.

But both the Hurricane and the Emil are changed in the upcomming patch.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:15 AM
Some intresting quotes from Brewster Pilots.

The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters is the Hurricane. It is totally helpless against us below 3,000 meters. It is slow and very clumsy and unmanoeuvrable. Whenever you meet a Hurricane, engage it in a turn-fight, where it is totally at our mercy. It is best to shoot this plane in the forward part of the fuselage when it almost immediately bursts into flames.

The Hurricane and Spitfire are slow and clumsy fighters at low altitudes. They seek dogfights at high altitudes (over 5,000 m.) where their characteristics are extremely good. Used these days as night-fighters by the enemy. The Spitfire is faster than the Hurricane.


http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/WW2History-CaptainWindsAirCombatTacticsLecture.html

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:20 AM
JG5_UnKle wrote:
- Set supercharger to stage 2 and mix at 120%
- and she pushes 5000rpm for ages.

This only happend when the engine is damaged right?

The 120% mix does give it a very small power boost but setting the supercharger to the 2nd stage at low alt doesn't do anything.

The RPM is level flight and combat is around 3000 with small spikes over the 3000 rpm line in a dive when you keep full throttle active.

Your saying you can reach 5000rpm by just setting 120% mix and the super charger at 2nd stage or what?



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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:27 AM
BBB_Hyperion wrote:
-
- Some intresting quotes from Brewster Pilots.
-
- The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters
- is the Hurricane. It is totally helpless against us
- below 3,000 meters. It is slow and very clumsy and
- unmanoeuvrable. Whenever you meet a Hurricane,
- engage it in a turn-fight, where it is totally at
- our mercy. It is best to shoot this plane in the
- forward part of the fuselage when it almost
- immediately bursts into flames.
-
- The Hurricane and Spitfire are slow and clumsy
- fighters at low altitudes. They seek dogfights at
- high altitudes (over 5,000 m.) where their
- characteristics are extremely good. Used these days
- as night-fighters by the enemy. The Spitfire is
- faster than the Hurricane.

Fins against Russian Hurricane pilots.
Brewster is a better turner, also in FB but in this case it's mostly poor pilot skills against the better trained Fins in these pilot quotes.

As for the burst into flames easy, this is also modelled in FB.

Hurricane FM is off, I agree on that part but to say it's so far off that you don't stand a chance against it is really not the case.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:30 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

- Brewster is a better turner, also in FB but in this
- case it's mostly poor pilot skills against the
- better trained Fins in these pilot quotes.



You should really try to turn in a Brewster against anybody in FB before saying a thing like that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It turns like a bomber. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:33 AM
I fly the Hurri in the campaign, and I think it's modelled quite good. At least, it's modelled with the same characteristics as in Air warrior and Warbirds. VERY slow, Very good turner, devastating guns. Only thing I think is strange is that it never overheats. Even with that, all bf 109's run away from me, as it should. Don't know about climb rates though... Never use that to get away from 109's. Bit of advice for 109 drivers if the climbrate IS overmodelled: Don't slow down for tracking shots. If you overshoot, go up steeply, and then just dive down on the hurri. And practise deflection shooting 8)


Interesting detail that never happened to me before:
Was engaging some 109's head on. I wasted one, but got a jammed gun in return. Whatever, I thought. Have three 20mm's left! I lined up my guns on a 2nd 109, pulled the trigger, and my planed yanked sharply to the right. It was the change in recoil. Right I had 2 big 20mm's, and left I had only one! Once again the detail in Il2/FB amazed me hehe

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:35 AM
Jippo01 wrote:
-
- Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
-- Brewster is a better turner, also in FB but in this
-- case it's mostly poor pilot skills against the
-- better trained Fins in these pilot quotes.
-
-
-
- You should really try to turn in a Brewster against
- anybody in FB before saying a thing like that.
- It turns like a bomber.


--jippo

I did, I out turn a Hurricane easy in a Brewster.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 11:55 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

- I did, I out turn a Hurricane easy in a Brewster.


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Stop BSing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Brewster sustained turning time in FB at SL is about 22 seconds, Hurricane sustained turning time at SL is about 15 seconds. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

Brewster time is in the same magnitude as the worst turnfighters in the game. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:01 PM
the Brewster out-turns the Hurricane in the Patch

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:02 PM
Yes sir, you all knowning all skilled Jippo.

I am BSing abou being able to out turn a Hurricane in a Brewster.

You are prolly going to call this BSing as well but I can also make very tight turns in a P-47 at low alt as well as making tight turns in a Hurricane.

The only plane where I have difficulty in turning is a P40.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:02 PM
At least you have a speed advantage over the Hurricane.. if you're going to disable a plane because of its superiority then look at the Yak's and La's those things are crazy.

$.


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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:05 PM
the HURRICANE will not REV to 5000 RPM on its own

The Hurricane wil be strangled at low ALT if you set the Supercharger on Position 2 AFTER the patch

The Hurricane will overheat as it is right now

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:07 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Yes sir, you all knowning all skilled Jippo.

Well I did the test just for you. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- I am BSing abou being able to out turn a Hurricane
- in a Brewster.


I can outturn AI Hurricanes as well in BW, but I'd say it is not the point, is it? There is just no way around it, there is no way to outturn Hurricane with a BW in FB. Simple as that.

And do mind we are not talking about flap or trim tricks here. Just sustainable plane performance in a game that doesn't match RL experiences and tests.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:08 PM
The P40 is a BAT-TURNER right now & is going to be even

better AFTER the patch

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:11 PM
I never even use trim so I don't use trim in turns.

As for flaps, I only use them when landing and only during take off when carrying heavy loads.

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fluke39
07-07-2003, 12:14 PM
mklonen wrote:
-
- Interesting detail that never happened to me before:
- Was engaging some 109's head on. I wasted one, but
- got a jammed gun in return. Whatever, I thought.
- Have three 20mm's left! I lined up my guns on a 2nd
- 109, pulled the trigger, and my planed yanked
- sharply to the right. It was the change in recoil.
- Right I had 2 big 20mm's, and left I had only one!
- Once again the detail in Il2/FB amazed me hehe


wait until you get two cannons jammed on one side !

tryting to shoot things down then and keep flying straight is not the easiest thing to do /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:15 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- I never even use trim so I don't use trim in turns.
-
- As for flaps, I only use them when landing and only
- during take off when carrying heavy loads.


So why don't you go then and test how long it takes you to complete a full circle in the before mentioned planes? Go around few times so you get your speed levelled and then time the circle. It is easiest to do on SL and using a landmark as a reference point.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:22 PM
Cappadocian_317 once im flying level i dont touch the trim untill i respawn & want to fly level again , the fact is that the P-40 turns awesomly ....... it will out-turn the Hurricane & in the patch it stalls less

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:24 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

-
- I did, I out turn a Hurricane easy in a Brewster.
-

Was that AI or Human Pilot ? With Alt /Speed advance ? Horizontal Turn ? Vertical Turn ? What Hurri Model ? What Alt/Speed ? or better a track at hand ?

The main hurri turn trick is in the vertical takes about <4s for a 180 degrees turn now .

For constant turn behaviar we can consult IL2FB Database.

In the Il2FB Database we can find that the hurri turntime at 1000 m is about 19 to 20 s for 180 degrees.

That of the brewster is indicated at 2000 m 7 s at 350 kmh for 180 degrees.

So that should underline the finnish reports about outturning the hurri.

I have no problem to shoot down a hurri but some manouevers are a little unrealistic . (I am sure the patch will adress this)

The E keeping after hard turns in FB 1.0 (This effect also can be seen on i16 i153 and some more). They dont bleed E in turns as they should . The Hurri almost never stalls it was kind of famous for it wasnt it ? What is the max dive speed for the Hurri ? The Climbrate of the the hurri is too high . (This affects not only the hurri).

After all its a sim even when some like the hurri flightmodel as it is it should be as close to real fm so far possible .

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:32 PM
Jippo:
- You should really try to turn in a Brewster against
- anybody in FB before saying a thing like that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It turns like a bomber.

Turns well for me, although it's a while since
I took one up so I am not sure if it is better
or worse than the Hurricane.

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 12:59 PM
I am at work right now but I don't need to re-test it again.

I flew the Brewster many times in FB since it was also used in the Dutch Airforce in the East Indies and it's a nice dogfight plane with a very good turning abillity.

But it's useless to talk to you about it since you have a problem with it and I don't, but somehow you feel the need to have me test it again and if it's still different from your findings you want me to test it again until I run into the same conclusion as you.

But since my conclusion is different then yours I am wrong and you are right.

So basicly I am not going to waste any more time on this issue then this post.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 02:13 PM
Just FYI

After the Battle of Britain examination of combat experience showed that the Hurricane was jsut as effective at bringing down enemy aircraft of all types , as the spitfire. But that Hurricane pilots were about twice as likely to be shot down. It was slow & couldn't disengage.

In real life "Speed is Life" But any late war fighter can be beat by an earlier plane if he slows & Dogfights.

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 06:43 PM
Well, especially for you Jippo I did you little test again and this time with a timer and I do a full 360 degree turn in 13 seconds in a Brewster.

But I highly doubt you will believe it since your the expert.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 07:37 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Well, especially for you Jippo I did you little test
- again and this time with a timer and I do a full 360
- degree turn in 13 seconds in a Brewster.

And you can keep that up forever in level flight? I can't. It seems in your game BW is even few seconds overmodelled.


- But I highly doubt you will believe it since your
- the expert.

What is your problem then?


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 07:48 PM
Hurricane is good plane indeed, but superior? No way! I've been flying Hurricane a lot and it's enjoyable plane to fly, but has been shot down a lot by many other plane types like I-16, 109's, 190's, etc. and I know im not that bad pilot, so it must be skill issue more than superiority issue.

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XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Basicly most planes are overmodelled when it comes to sustained turning, axis and allied alike.

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