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Dew-Claw
05-26-2005, 12:12 PM
How to get the FFback experiance for under $30.00


So you can't afford that top of the line ff stick you've been eyeballing, or you like the feel of the one you have, but it keeps throwing your aim off, I have a solution that works for both instances.

1. make sure you have an open usb port, if not...

2. go to Wal-Mart and buy a $5 hub.
While your there, grab a gamepad, one with FFback capabilities, mine cost $19.95

3. go home and plug it in, add the software and make sure the FFback switch is on in Pacific Fighters.

4. go to Controls and configure any of the buttons you feel you may want to use...you may not want to configure any due to the next step, but adding controls is feasable.

5. look around your chair, find a nice spot and duct tape, glue, weld, tie or even melt it on to the chair in your desired position.

6. Play


The less sturdy your chair the better.
By that I mean, an adjustable office style chair works better than a 4 legged kitchen chair.

I have a high backed reclyning office chair, the pad is zip tied to the arm rest, in such a way i can use controls just under my fingers if I need them, but all FFback is channeled thru the chair instead of the stick.
I now fly by the seat of my pants, and the feel is very immersive.

total cost $24.95

fordfan25
05-26-2005, 01:09 PM
what is FFback?

FoolTrottel
05-26-2005, 03:49 PM
Truly great idea! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And it works! Yer havin' fun with it!

I do have an FFB (Force Feed Back) stick, but I've been looking at the Bass-Shaker Bvtt Kicker (http://shop.rightthing.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=65)
That should add some immersion too !

Have Fun!

Dew-Claw
05-26-2005, 08:53 PM
I don't need the bass shaker, I have surround sound with a 75 watt base unit so I don't need sound activated vibrations.
But this way of doing it works great and is pretty inexpensive.

AerialTarget
05-26-2005, 09:19 PM
I'm confused about one thing; how do you fix the problem of your stick unrealistically throwing off your aim?

Wait, I get it; you don't use the force feedback in the joystick at all.

Hey, this is a really cool idea you have here! I never got a force feedback joystick because I didn't feel like paying a lot of money for something rather unrealistic. Your chair thing, however, is another story!

How strong is the force feedback? Is it a sort of faint thing that just gives you an idea of what's happening, or is it a rather strong feeling that simulates whatever it is that's happening in the game?

Ho! Moderators! Might one of you kindly sticky this gentleman's excellent idea?

Antonio_MRZ
05-27-2005, 02:47 PM
It sounds as a good idea,I am trying it, but:

- the gamepad installed as my default joystick while the old joystick appears as ID = 2, so now I have all axes and buttons mapped to the gamepad. I can easily remap them but apparently the calibration menu now only works with the gamepad. Is there a way to switch back my joystich as default input device?

- worst, I do not get any force feedback (yes, the gamepad has force feedback). How do I switch the FF on in IL2? I found a line FF=0 in conf.ini and put it to FF=1 but apparently it does not work...

EDIT: solved problem 2, now I have FF, problem 1 still is there.

Thanks for your help
Antonio

NonWonderDog
05-27-2005, 06:35 PM
- the gamepad installed as my default joystick while the old joystick appears as ID = 2, so now I have all axes and buttons mapped to the gamepad. I can easily remap them but apparently the calibration menu now only works with the gamepad. Is there a way to switch back my joystich as default input device?


Control Panel >> Game Controllers

Click on "Advanced..." and choose your joystick when it tells you to "Select the device you wish to use with older programs."

It's a bit more involved in older versions of Windows, but I assume you use XP?

DuxCorvan
05-29-2005, 02:50 AM
Use a 2nd FFB joystick instead of a pad. This way, when you sit on it, the FTA (Force-Thru-A$s) effects will give you a new perspective on aerial combat silmulation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-29-2005, 02:30 PM
My question would be this. Since these gamepads are really just vibrating, are there different vibrations in different situations. In other words, do you get particular vibration effects for pre-stall, stall, compression and such?

Antonio_MRZ
05-30-2005, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:

Control Panel >> Game Controllers

Click on "Advanced..." and choose your joystick when it tells you to "Select the device you wish to use with older programs."

It's a bit more involved in older versions of Windows, but I assume you use XP?

Er, I actually use Windows 2000, it would be great if you could help me, thanks a lot

Antonio

Dew-Claw
05-30-2005, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
My question would be this. Since these gamepads are really just vibrating, are there different vibrations in different situations. In other words, do you get particular vibration effects for pre-stall, stall, compression and such?

Yes
Mine is compleatly programable

Dew-Claw
05-30-2005, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Use a 2nd FFB joystick instead of a pad. This way, when you sit on it, the FTA (Force-Thru-A$s) effects will give you a new perspective on aerial combat silmulation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Give it a try, tell me how it works.

ManicGibber
05-30-2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Dew-Claw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Use a 2nd FFB joystick instead of a pad. This way, when you sit on it, the FTA (Force-Thru-A$s) effects will give you a new perspective on aerial combat silmulation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Give it a try, tell me how it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at the picture of his eye's and that should tell you how it is affecting him LMAO.
Flight stick stimulation.

NonWonderDog
05-30-2005, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Antonio_MRZ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NonWonderDog:

Control Panel >> Game Controllers

Click on "Advanced..." and choose your joystick when it tells you to "Select the device you wish to use with older programs."

It's a bit more involved in older versions of Windows, but I assume you use XP?

Er, I actually use Windows 2000, it would be great if you could help me, thanks a lot

Antonio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm... I never actually used Win2000. The above is how it works in XP, but if none of that applies, here's how it worked in 95/98/ME, from memory:

From the start menu, open the control panel and from there open "gaming options." This may be known as "game controllers" instead. (It was renamed somewhere between WinME and WinXP.)

From there, you'll see a dialog window that lists your joysticks/gamepads/etc. There should be a tab at the top labeled "advanced." If that's not what it says, it's probably the second tab. If there aren't any tabs at all, there's a button somewhere on that screen that lets you do what you're trying to do. Promise.

Open the "advanced" tab, or whatever it is. You should see a list of all of your joysticks/gamepads/etc with numbers next to them. Your gamepad should be on top, in ID1. Double-click on it and assign it a new ID number in the dialog box. The annoying bit is that you can't just set it to ID2 and have your joystick replace it as ID1; you have to play a little game of Towers of Hanoi to get them rearranged. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Tully__
05-31-2005, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Antonio_MRZ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NonWonderDog:

Control Panel >> Game Controllers

Click on "Advanced..." and choose your joystick when it tells you to "Select the device you wish to use with older programs."

It's a bit more involved in older versions of Windows, but I assume you use XP?

Er, I actually use Windows 2000, it would be great if you could help me, thanks a lot

Antonio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If NWD's way don't work or isn't applicable, click the "Joysticks..." link under my sig picture and find the section about adding a 2nd controller (near the bottom of the article).

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-31-2005, 09:30 PM
Well, I gave Dew-Claw's idea a shot and took it one step further. Yesterday I went out and bought a Logitech Rumble 2 gamepad. To see how it was going to function, I taped it to the bottom of the suspended platform my CH Stick sits on. Installed the drivers for the gamepad turned on the ForceFeedback and went into QMB and gave it a whirl. Worked really well. Can feel the stalls comin and when you start to overstress your airframe from high speeds. So now that I seen it was going to function as desired, it was time to take it to the next level http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Went to Radioshack and picked up the following:

2 each 1/8in stereo jacks
1 each 1/8in x 1/8in stereo cable.

----- Warning: The following will void your warrentee from CH. ----

Next I opened up the game pad and removed the two FFB motors. Drilled a hole and mounted the one of the 1/8in jacked on the Gamepad. Then i wired the leads from the circuit board for the motors to the jack. You will need to solder both of the black leads to the same post. This is not a problem since these are both the negative side of the circuit.

Next I opened up my CH Stick. Found a nice place to mount the two FFB motors. Got out the hot glue gun and glued the two motors to the base of the Stick making sure that the weights would spin freely. I then drilled a hole in the side of the CH stick base and installed the other 1/8in jack. I then wired the two FFB motors to the jack making sure that it matched up with the jack in the game pad. Tucked all the wires back in nice and neat in the CH stick and the Gamepad. Now its time to put them back together.

Testing time. Pluged the two jacks together with the cable. Opened up IL2 and started playing. Result, CH Stick with ForceFeedBack. What more can you ask for. Not quite a Microsoft FFB2 due to the lack of Stick tensions and centering force, but still works very well. You can use the set the gamepad on your desk and use it as a button bay, or just tuck it away under your desk. If you want to use the gamepad to play say NHL2005 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, just unplug the cable between the gamepad and the stick and there ya go.

Cost of this mod: Gamepad $30, 1/8in Stereo cable $5, 1/8in stereo jacks $3.

If anyone wants more details, let me know and I will take some pictures and drow out some wiring diagrams. Its really pretty simple to do. This should work with just about any non FFB stick as long as there is room in the stick base for the two FFB motors.

S~

Dew-Claw
06-01-2005, 12:57 AM
Er, I actually use Windows 2000, it would be great if you could help me, thanks a lot

Antonio[/QUOTE]

Start/settings/Control panel/gaming options/controlers id tab
change its location in the window
Thats how its done in Win2k

just did it

Fliegeroffizier
06-01-2005, 11:04 AM
It seems to me that force feedback in a flight sim has more to do with the effect upon the Stick...tension/resistance, shake when firing larger weapons/cannons, sensation of a stall with 'slacking' of the stick, etc... rather than vibration of one's seat. I think the best solution would be to have both...Would that be possible?

Meanwhile, consider getting one of these sticks...DON'T bid more than $20. They originally sold in retail stores for $80. The one shown at the link went for only $4.00(plus$12 shipping)...that is Cheap!

Lots don't like Logitech sticks, but mine has worked fine now for more than two years...I even bought two extras as backup, just in case.

Logitech Wingman StrikeForce 3D(force feedback stick) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74944&item=5196974710&rd=1)

Supr
06-01-2005, 11:21 AM
i thought it was working, but it turned out it was just my wife kicking the chair to get my attention. But hey, for a minute, i thought those 20 mm were really coming thru the back of my seat.

zombiewolf92553
06-02-2005, 10:30 PM
:
Use a 2nd FFB joystick instead of a pad. This way, when you sit on it, the FTA (Force-Thru-A$s) effects will give you a new perspective on aerial combat silmulation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif[/QUOTE]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifits stuck and I can't get it out..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

veauger
06-02-2005, 11:22 PM
I dunno bout strapping things to my ciar, but I gotta say the force feedback gamepad idea is pretty cool for secondary controls. Can a second FF controller be used in addition to another FF device?

Also, the Saitek Evo Force is a good FF stick thats pretty cheap and is still in production. I have been using mine for about 5 months.

To the guy asking about how we handle the FF throwing off our aim -- well, I don't. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Just decided that the FF was more fun than grabbing kills, although I may seek to turn off the gun recoil effect someday.